Chaotic-Strike
Banned
It wouldn't be the Supreme Kai if he wasn't incompetent as hell.
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Dragon Ball Super |OT8| There is no justice or evil, only survival or erasure.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
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It wouldn't be the Supreme Kai if he wasn't incompetent as hell.
Bahaha, fo'real!
FTFY
I don't know, man. Shin has got to be in a class of his own. Gowasu too!
With U6 arc tournament rules. All 18 universes when the 6 other ones get wished back. The first 300 episode arc.
Only two ways it ends and that would be the YuYu ending.
NeonZ
Member
The Goku Black arc in the anime was generally slow paced, annoyingly so at times even when you consider how small the cast with actual active roles was. But then they rushed the final battle against Merged Zamasu for some reason.
Undead Fantasy
Member
I'll be honest. I want this.
Icyflamez96
Member
It was so good to see that cocky af motherfer get beat up.
Dypso really thought he had that Hit counter. He did waaaaay better than I expected too. I never thought Dypso would be hanging with Hit or SSJG Goku, to any extent! I am definitely a Dypso fan now. He impressed me that much.
In 10 years, replace Tien with Pan.
Frieza with Uub.
Eh not really I didn't care when it turn to a fodder fest
Icyflamez96
Member
I am too, but it was still satisfying to see him get beat up lol.
This wink sealed the deal to me. He had to be trashed.
Dyspo will win after dinner mental training with Jiren.
Icyflamez96
Member
I mean, is fodder "anyone who eventually loses" to you? He put up a legit good fight and tactics eventually overcame him. Gave me more than what most have these fights have given me so far.
So I was watching clips of fights from GT that are abridged to the point where it removes all the stuff that isn't the fight...and goddamn it's even more jarring in comparison to Super. Let's compare two premiere fights here. Not "main" fights like SS4 Gogeta vs. Omega Shenron so to speak, but just fights that happen in some of these arcs:
Super 17 vs. Goku - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pyKAvz1BVA
Goku and Trunks vs. Zamasu and Black - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2BofNOFLCc
The Super 17 vs. Goku fight is slower than every fight Goku has ever had in Z and arguably even in the original Dragonball. Characters just stand around talking constantly. It's slow, plodding, and just boring as shit.
The Goku and Trunks vs. Zamasu and Black fight starts out FAST. These are characters that exceed the power level established before in the original series (Majin Boo). They only downtime spent is either when characters are in an unfavorable position like being ganged up on or being hurt, or when they're in position to do something like attack or defend. No time is wasted on anything and characters are constantly in motion.
"Oh but I like GT more" why? For what? What exactly about characters standing around doing nothing is so freaking exciting? Take your nostalgia goggles off cause GT doesn't even hold a candle to any fight in Super. Even the fight Goku and Vegeta had in the Poutafau arc had better choreography and pacing than any fight in GT.
Goku vs. Copy Vegeta - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzp-qsi8PQo
This fight is terrible. It has bad animation, no real purpose other than fanservice, etc. But it's a functional fight, because both characters fight exactly how Goku and Vegeta WOULD fight. It's true to their character and their fighting style, true to the power scaling the series established years ago in the original manga, true to everything.
Syn Shenron vs. Goku - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1E5a_lDETU
Why is there constantly long stretched out shots of characters STANDING STILL? This is not how Goku would fight. Goku is a character that is constantly pushing himself to his limit, but the Goku we see in GT is constantly doing the least amount of work to defeat his enemies...and conveniently, it always backfires on him until he finally kills the enemy. Goku likes to dick around in Super at times, but it stays true to his character in that Goku always wants to challenge himself against strong opponents. In GT, Goku is doing the same thing but doing it in the most lazy way possible by moving slowing and standing around all the time.
The battle choreography in GT is so shitty.
Super 17 vs. Goku - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pyKAvz1BVA
Goku and Trunks vs. Zamasu and Black - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2BofNOFLCc
The Super 17 vs. Goku fight is slower than every fight Goku has ever had in Z and arguably even in the original Dragonball. Characters just stand around talking constantly. It's slow, plodding, and just boring as shit.
The Goku and Trunks vs. Zamasu and Black fight starts out FAST. These are characters that exceed the power level established before in the original series (Majin Boo). They only downtime spent is either when characters are in an unfavorable position like being ganged up on or being hurt, or when they're in position to do something like attack or defend. No time is wasted on anything and characters are constantly in motion.
"Oh but I like GT more" why? For what? What exactly about characters standing around doing nothing is so freaking exciting? Take your nostalgia goggles off cause GT doesn't even hold a candle to any fight in Super. Even the fight Goku and Vegeta had in the Poutafau arc had better choreography and pacing than any fight in GT.
Goku vs. Copy Vegeta - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzp-qsi8PQo
This fight is terrible. It has bad animation, no real purpose other than fanservice, etc. But it's a functional fight, because both characters fight exactly how Goku and Vegeta WOULD fight. It's true to their character and their fighting style, true to the power scaling the series established years ago in the original manga, true to everything.
Syn Shenron vs. Goku - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1E5a_lDETU
Why is there constantly long stretched out shots of characters STANDING STILL? This is not how Goku would fight. Goku is a character that is constantly pushing himself to his limit, but the Goku we see in GT is constantly doing the least amount of work to defeat his enemies...and conveniently, it always backfires on him until he finally kills the enemy. Goku likes to dick around in Super at times, but it stays true to his character in that Goku always wants to challenge himself against strong opponents. In GT, Goku is doing the same thing but doing it in the most lazy way possible by moving slowing and standing around all the time.
The battle choreography in GT is so shitty.
Yep, its not a lack of ability on Dyspo's part, just lack of experience and variation in his attacks. He just gave Hit way too much time to figure his simplistic strategy out and implement countermeasures.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Bereft of any of Toriyama's original manga, GT employed alot of the common cost cutting measures of the time.
Super's choreography isn't anything special, but at least it has contemporaries that force it to be a bit more lively.
Super's choreography isn't anything special, but at least it has contemporaries that force it to be a bit more lively.
Oh I agree, but I'm just pointing out how much of a jarring difference it is. For the most part, characters in Super fight the way they should fight. The only problem is power scaling, but in terms of staying true to the series Super is fine when it comes to the actual fights.
Icyflamez96
Member
I agree. I don't think Super coreography is overall as strong as Z, but it's definitely more interesting than GT.
I dont even like GT and I always remebered a lot of the battle coreography being boring, but I give it credit for being more consistently well drawn during fights, having good impact, ki blasts look good. Less akward animations. I for sure dont think that Black arc Super clip in particular does everything better than that Super 17 GT clip. Though, Super does the arguably more important things better.
Though that Copy Vegeta fight is among the lowest tier DB fights to me.
Eh I really don't think they're that much better. There's a ton of off-model shots in those two fights I just posted for example, especially in the faces. Just look at the screen when SSJ4 Goku is all happy that he defeated Syn Shenron with the other Z Fighters for example (What's wrong with Gohan's face?!). It really ain't that much different than what we see in Super today.
Icyflamez96
Member
That Vegeta beatdown is one of my favorites of that arc.
Yeah harsh
What I expected but sour on the strongest of victories or lack of consequences and me not buying of this tournament being a serious concern yet
Though it's probably the best fight in the tournament just my general mood
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
If this is true, Champa wouldn't be the MVP.
Actually, he said that he acknowledge that Goku is the strongest, but he won't sit by and let him stay on top forever.
Just because Vegeta acknowledged that Goku was the best doesn't mean he will stop trying to surpassed him. Also, Vegeta said he wanted to surpassed everyone including Beerus and Whis.
Icyflamez96
Member
I didn't say it is perfect, but I definitely think it's notably better than Super in those particular aspects overall. Even considering that Super has been improving.
I'm pretty outspoken about my opinion that the fighting is pretty low on the list of reasons I enjoy Super, (which is why an episode like the last one I get so hyped about), but I have more fun with them still then I remember having with the fights in GT as a kid. (I've watched many of them recently too. I just bring up the kid thing to make it more extreme because I enjoyed GT fights more as a kid than I do now)
So even though I think GT has worse fighting overall, I'm pretty adamant about believing that those certain aspects I mentioned tend to be more solid in GT.
Undead Fantasy
Member
That's not what happened...
Chaotic-Strike
Banned
Can you even call that 17 clip "choreography" when all it shows is Goku spamming Ki blasts? I think the most interesting parts of that clip is when the environment changes versus the actual fighting.
I mean just look at Super 17, he's so bored he falls asleep midway through Goku's attack.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Eh. Alot of Toriyama's/Z's fight choreography succeeded because Toriyama was really good at establishing how both combatants play off and interact with each other.
Super, like GT, is under its own franchise's shadow. While GT's choreography was lethargic, Super's feels way too technique based, sort of like a "greatest hits" version of these characters.
Average 90s action anime guide to staying on model:
- TALKING
- CLOSEUPS ANIMATING ONLY THE MOUTH MOVEMENT
- LONG RANGE ATTACKS (beam spams)
- RE-RE-RE-RE-RE-REPEAT THAT ANIMATION
Icyflamez96
Member
The use of environment is pretty interesting in that fight too. Forgot to mention that. I don't think Super has had a lack of that though. Or at least it isn't something that stuck out to me.
I honestly can't remember the fights in GT outside of Super Saiyan Goku knocking Super 17 across the Earth and Goten and Gohan using the same Kamehameha Earth scene three times.
Can't completely agree. While this may be true of Vegeta and Piccolo, that doesn't hold true for Goku who we see far more of his technical side as a fighter, far more than Z. Just look at all of his fights with Hit or even this last episode. Future Trunks also got a much needed boost as as fighter compared to his Cell Saga self. You can see that Super Future Trunks is a season fighter, while Cell Saga Trunks was still green. Even with Piccolo, we see him using some of his best tactics against Frost and almost won.
Can't completely agree. While this may be true of Vegeta and Piccolo, that doesn't hold true for Goku who we see far more of his technical side as a fighter, far more than Z. Just look at all of his fights with Hit or even this last episode. Future Trunks also got a much needed boost as as fighter compared to his Cell Saga self. You can see that Super Future Trunks is a season fighter, while Cell Saga Trunks was still green. Even with Piccolo, we see him using some of his best tactics against Frost and almost won.
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
Based on just those clips, DBGT doesn't hold a candle to Super.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
Yeah that was cool, I'm glad they included that moment. Would have loved to see a Masenko w Gohan too. Dammit Toei or Toriyama or whoever is in charge of it, let Gohan's Masenko return! I'm tired of Kamehameha...
LMAO!
NeonZ
Member
With Gohan wearing Piccolo's gi in the manga version of the Tournament of Power arc, I wonder if we'll see him using Piccolo's techniques...
Wonder if it was around here that I really started to dislike Blue as a transformation...
Choreo-wise, Super has improved lately, but it's still not as good as Z.
However, this arc, Super's art quality on a episode to episode basis has been better than Z I would argue. Which is one nice thing at least.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
lol
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
Hopefully that's the case. I know it's not-canon but I think in one game Future Gohan has the Makankosappo, that would be cool too.
Destroy Cabba and bring Tarble back
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