DS/PSP Sales analyzation thread (a serious attempt)

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
I know it might be hard, but lets try to keep fanboy opinions and other such nonsense out of this thread. I can't be alone in thinking that this handheld war is really, genuinely interesting stuff. It's like watching a giant game of chess where there's one move made every couple of weeks. I've been watching this war develop since E3.

Anyway, I wanted to at least ATTEMPT to have a serious discussion about the sales of each system, as well as future sales, in here. That means you shouldn't run off and type up your own theories willy nilly without seeing what else has been said. Absorb other people's comments. Respond to them with a dissenting opion with your reasoning or their flaws, etc.

That being said, I feel like I've been watching the situation more closely than most, so here's my two cents:

The DS is going to continue to outsell the PSP by at least a ratio of 2:1 in Japan alone for at least another couple of weeks, due to PSP supply. Realistically more like a month or two, if not more. Some people thought that DS sales might slow after a few weeks as early adopters had their fill, and eventually that will happen, but the latest media create sales are not hinting at this at all yet. The DS has sold about 200K units a week (two weeks running) since its launch when 500K were sold.

With Sony shipping approximately 100K PSPs a week, that means the DS is going to continue to widen that gap until both systems are widely available on store shelves, probably sometime in Q2 2005. Most people believe (and I agree with them), that once both systems are widely available, that the PSP will outsell the DS week to week. The question is, by how much? And how long will it take Sony to close the huge gap that Nintendo will have opened up?

There's a couple of different scenarios here. By April-ish the DS lead will likely be 3M+ worldwide. Maybe even a 4M lead, depending on how well the DS does in Europe. I think the DS's lead will fall somewhere in that range, however. Sony's increasing PSP production will slow the gap widening that Nintendo has been doing these first weeks.

Anyway, scenario 1 has the PSP sigificantly outselling the DS once people have them available everywhere side by side. Let's say outselling it by 150K units worldwide weekly by that point. I think the PSP outselling the DS by a wider margin then that is nuts, since sales are slow in Q2 and Q3. At that rate, it would still take the PSP twenty months to catch the DS. When you account for the huge gap closing sony will do for the US and Euro launches, I still see 12 months as being the earliest that the PSP could reasonably catch up to the DS. April 2006.

Scenario 2 has them remaining fairly even when they're both widely available, until things shake out towards the holiday season. Not a lot to say, really.

Scenario 3 has the DS continuing to outsell the PSP, F-ing Sony in the A.

~~~~~~~

It's my own personal opinion that something closest to scenario 1 is going to happen. The DS will amass a huge lead thanks to having more systems available, and Sony won't match/pass DS weekly sales until April-ish. At that point it'll take them at least in 2006 to match the DS in total sales, give or take a few quarters depending on what happens with software killer apps, online plans, etc.
 
I've still to see any of this second shipment hit Tokyo yet. Japan is a fairly bit place, but you'd think some of those 100k a week units would have made it into stores around about now?

There is no doubt demand is huge, my Japanese teacher is looking for one (female, around 50 years old) but she and her teacher friends are all looking for one for the same reason : To sell it at a profit over the web (!)

It would seem that the story about US/Europeans buying the units at silly prices has spread quite wide.
 
These things had better be readily available when I get back to Japan, or I will start whooping everyone's ass until I get one.
 
DCharlie said:
I've still to see any of this second shipment hit Tokyo yet. Japan is a fairly bit place, but you'd think some of those 100k a week units would have made it into stores around about now?

That's a good point. I only assumed that Sony was telling the truth with their 100K/week number because media create reported 80+K sold in the PSPs second week of availability. More units than those shipped at launch have been sold SOMEWHERE in Japan.
 
Sho Nuff said:
These things had better be readily available when I get back to Japan, or I will start whooping everyone's ass until I get one.

Well I mean available to the point that they've saturated demand. I think most of us could find a DS for the MSRP here in America, but I still don't call it "readily available." I think with both the DS and the PSP are available in great quantities at target, wal mart, Gamestop, EB games, etc., that's when the PSP weekly sales will crop up above the DS's.
 
It will be interesting to see which games release in March and afterwards, Nintendo seem to be getting the big guns ready for when the PSP launches in the US, which might be around the same time the supply has been met in Japan.

I think the PAL launches of both systems will be very interesting too, and that's Sony's best chance of outselling the DS i think, given Nintendo Europe and Nintendo Australia's inability to market anything.

When does Jump Superstars come out? That and Pokemon will be huge, I don't see any PSP games with that kind of appeal yet.
 
i don't see how this can be considered a serious discussion when it's based on wild speculation and only one of your scenarios is more than one sentence...
 
I've still to see any of this second shipment hit Tokyo yet. Japan is a fairly bit place, but you'd think some of those 100k a week units would have made it into stores around about now?
The PSP I got that someone picked up for me came out of the second shipment...so it definitely went out. I'm not sure where in Japan the retailer was, but they definitely got a second shipment on Wednesday (if I'm doing my time conversion correctly).
 
I wonder how the super secret Nintendo announcement will figure into this?

If its truly the rumored ONLINE plan, this could be more interesting than anyone thought.
 
GDJustin said:
Well I mean available to the point that they've saturated demand. I think most of us could find a DS for the MSRP here in America, but I still don't call it "readily available." I think with both the DS and the PSP are available in great quantities at target, wal mart, Gamestop, EB games, etc., that's when the PSP weekly sales will crop up above the DS's.
i still can't find one in NYC... though a friend told me about some mom & pop store who had some DS'es "shipped straight from japan" and can only sell them for $250 because of their great expense...

DS? NYC? where? someone? somewhere? anyone? anywhere?
 
I think the PAL launches of both systems will be very interesting too, and that's Sony's best chance of outselling the DS i think, given Nintendo Europe and Nintendo Australia's inability to market anything.

The pal launch is the wildcard, imo. I really have no idea how either system will perform in PAL-land, or how their sales will stack up to one another.

i don't see how this can be considered a serious discussion when it's based on wild speculation and only one of your scenarios is more than one sentence...

Ok its true that I sorta ran out of steam towards the end, but most of the rest of the thread isn't speculation at all, let alone "wild" speculation. I made this thread b/c the new media create number showed DS sales continuing to hold steady at 200K units/week in Japan, when most people thought they might start to come down out of the stratosphere by now, in its 3rd week of availability. The longer DS sales hold at that level, the harder for Sony to catch up once they have their manufacturing kinks worked out, and its my opinion that that 200K level will remain for at least another 3-4 weeks.
 
"That's a good point. I only assumed that Sony was telling the truth with their 100K/week number because media create reported 80+K sold in the PSPs second week of availability. More units than those shipped at launch have been sold SOMEWHERE in Japan."

yup - there was supposedly 200,000 units at launch, yet 165,000 is the previous weeks total (which i assume is only the launch date (12th))

So either the 35,000 units just sat in stores somewhere or they were sold the next week or they were never there in the first place.

I just wonder what sony's actual production capacity is ? Perhaps the juggling of costs and the need to get PStwos out (from the same plants?) is screwing up their plans?
 
"And which one sells more changes our lives as gamers how exactly?"

the level of support each one gets?
the shift of developers from platform to platform?
the "where do we do our connectivity games now?" question?

the important "which set of fanboys have the biggest 'sales cock'" issue gets settled too!
 
koam said:
And which one sells more changes our lives as gamers how exactly?

Well in my defense, its my job to write about the business side of this industry :)

Even if it wasn't, I'd still follow this stuff. It just interests me.
 
DCharlie said:
I just wonder what sony's actual production capacity is ?
Well I heard 700k a month from Sony's mouth, so knowing they multiply everything by 1.5-3x we can conclude 350k is the real number.
Thus, their 100k a week number until end of year would be only 50k.

160 + 80 = 240k.
200 + 50 = 250k

OMG, I uncovered the conspiracy :D

Seriously though - we saw numbers over 170k by other tracking companies for same week, which just goes to show how much they can still be missing out of total sales (same happened with DS launch really). And moreover I am sure they can't possibly be tracking all the units that go into importer channels, and given the supposed demand that number is probably not insignificant either right now.
And the easy way to see what's really happening is to wait for Sony's shipment reports, if they follow what they do with other PSs they will have those in March at latest, Jan(for Dec31st) at earliest.
 
Well, there seems to be quite a bit of PSPs in Hong Kong and the U.S.; do those count in Media Create's total?

200 systems for Lik-Sang alone for example... which is a huge chunk of Xbox sales in Japan. :lol
 
krypt0nian said:
I wonder how the super secret Nintendo announcement will figure into this?

If its truly the rumored ONLINE plan, this could be more interesting than anyone thought.

Hamamura: Nintendo has said that the Internet is not worthwhile to its business framework, but would rather find out how it can make playing fun. I think the recognition of that is spreading through society in general. However, something more was said: when there’s a use that lends itself naturally to play, then preparations will commence. The former statement seems very strong, and has given Nintendo an image of being against networking. Even at the presentation a few days ago (10/7), Mr. Kawazu of Square-Enix spoke very little about it during his appearance. Can you expand upon this at all?

Miyamoto: The management of the company has lately had talks with all sorts of other companies about whether we should handle the Internet. However, that will probably bear fruit after three or four years.

Hamamura: That long of a time span?

Miyamoto: With the DS, I think it’ll be faster. I think it will take more time to get users and investors to the same level of interest. In shaping the future, we’re moving in a positive direction. I can’t say anything more until it’s formally announced.

Hamamura: I see. For something that interesting, I don’t think Nintendo will be lacking.

Miyamoto: Yeah, because of our cooperation with Square-Enix. [Smiles] I think there’ll be a hint hidden in Animal Crossing.

I am pretty sure that this will be Nintendo's trump card. Online, Square-Enix game or involvement in one of Nintendo's game.
 
Stateside:

Nintendo only needs to drop the price and release a few must have titles during the PSP us launch to do damage in the short term of the PSP release frenzy.

If Sony goes through with their early 2005 release, this may be a bit difficult to pull off, but then, I suspect supplies would be limited which would not hurt the DS so much.

If they hold off until supplies are sufficient, probably closer to May, Nintendo may very well be ready with a couple of really cool titles to have that will push sales into its 2nd wind past the initial early adopter frenzy and allow for a timely price drop of $10-$20. With Nintendo's history, I wouldn't be surprised if they have exactly this planned.

Either way, its a catch 22 for Sony. But If I were sony I'd go with the latter. Good games can be countered with your own good games. Limited supplies cannot be countered by anything.

As I noted in a previous post, Nintendo has scored a tactical victory with the way they orchestrated their DS release. They've built up a nice lead and they seem to have caught Sony is a supply problem where even if Sony pushed up the release (as they did in Japan and is trying to do with the US) there wont be enough supplies available to satisfy demand. Sony execs must be pissed off.

______

Also, the premise that PSP is inherently more popular than the DS is shaky and pure speculation from hardcore technophiles who see the obvious superiority of the Sony machine. I'm not sure this assumption is particularly valid on a wider audience as there is really no evidence of this happening. If the early JP DS demographics are any indications, the DS may actually have wider non hardcore appeal.

______
On Square-Enix

I'm genuinely puzzled by SE's sudden closeness with Nintendo and its support of DS and Miyamoto making direct comments towards SE.

I won't make the obvious speculation, but it needs to be pointed out, Feb. 1996 comes to mind.
 
It's waaaay too early to say. You'll have a much clearer picture by next spring when both systems are availible in all territories, supply fills retail channels, and their software lineup comes into sharper focus. Then I think one of the two will start to really pull away from the other.

Nintendo always supposedly has some kind of "trump card" or "megaton" announcement waiting in the wings, I just don't think that's going to be the case.

Square is reportedly bringing some of their online cell-phone stuff to the DS, I don't think it'll be anything major or huge.

I would bet the PSP will be online with online play for many titles before the DS is.
 
The Faceless Master said:
i still can't find one in NYC... though a friend told me about some mom & pop store who had some DS'es "shipped straight from japan" and can only sell them for $250 because of their great expense...

DS? NYC? where? someone? somewhere? anyone? anywhere?

If you really want a DS from Japan in New York, go here - http://www.users-side.com/ny.asp

$189 I believe, but they get constant shipments from their branches in Japan. Even if they don't have it in stock when you go down there, you might have to wait up to 2 weeks but you'll have one. (if it's not already on the way)
 
At this point Nintendo already has a healthy DS install base, as long as they don't suddenly hire all Sega executives they could easily fend off PSP at PSP launch in the US. e.g. Launch a new 2D Mario Game.
 
I might get a DS if that Super Mario 2.5-D demo they showed off at E3 turns up and is actually old-school.

Man o man, I'm dying for an oldschool mario game without yoshis, and crack that is NOT a port.
 
The intiial gadet appeal is quite obvius for PSP and somewhat for NDS.
It will be interesting to see how software sell on both systems.
 
What you guys fail to see is that the PSP is not fighting the NDS alone, but the NDS, the GBA SP, the GBA...

While the NDS sold some 2M units worldwide the GBA SP sold nearly double of that in the same time range. And dont think those who bought a GBA SP recently will soon buy a PSP (or NDS).

$149 or $199 isnt the price for a handheld mass market, it is at $79 or maybe $99.
 
The Faceless Master said:
i still can't find one in NYC... though a friend told me about some mom & pop store who had some DS'es "shipped straight from japan" and can only sell them for $250 because of their great expense...

DS? NYC? where? someone? somewhere? anyone? anywhere?
You can buy a jp unit at the electronics/music store in laGuadia :P Only $289.99!!
 
olubode said:
You can buy a jp unit at the electronics/music store in laGuadia :P Only $289.99!!

Hey, what's good, bro? We still gotta meet up again for more Daytona Arcade :)

Regarding PSPs, they in stock right now? Where is the place exactly?
 
I was talking to a buddy of mine today and I gave him the basic specs of the PSP, he basically summed it up as something like this “So it’s a PS2 that plays mp3s, and I will be buying the same games / movies I own now, why would I do that when I can play them on my PS2 on my large High Definition TV” he then went on to say he would be much more likely to pick up a DS because it seems to have more unique pick up and play games.

I kind of feel the same way as he does, the DS feels more like a portable pick up and play gaming device then the PSP. It seems the only thing that I find appealing from the PSP is the super sleek design.
 
If PSP continues to outsell DS by mid-year 2005, then DS is screwed. I'm not sure this will happen though, by this time, DS will have a decent lineup established and then the competition will begin.

At this point it's just who can develop more hype (or produce more units), but frankly, both systems suck.
 
I dunno... the more I think about this the more I'm inclined to believe the PSP really is screwed, although not in a lynx/game gear way. Whether it succeeds enough for it to be a profitable venture I couldn't say, but I'm becoming increasingly convinced that it is at least going to finish behind the DS.

The handheld that has won the console war has ALWAYS been the system that was cheaper, and offered better portability and battery life. That's why the game boy line has always succeeded in the face of more advanced competition. Portable gaming doesn't follow the same rules as gaming in the home. Graphics are less important than the features I pointed out above.

I feel like the company that creates a handheld with the same durability as a nintendo, with the same price, and the same battery life, will be the only company to have a chance at coming out on top. I think the PSP is far and away the most serious challenger to Nintendo's handheld dominence, but it just isn't quite there yet, hardware wise.

Some people might think I'm crazy to say that, but think about the fact that the game gear had to go up against the original gameboy. Who the hell would have predicted the GB surviving, and indeed GROWING during that period? Yes the game gear had flaws, but they were overlooked in the face of an incredibly better screen, and more advanced graphics...
 
I believe that Japan is already a lost cause for Sony. At this point they need a killer ap that rivals Pokemon, Advance Wars, JSS, and the rest of the DS lineup.

Scenario 1 might be possible because Europe will jump on the PSP bandwagon. I dont think the GBA is very big out there.

The US is up for grabs but I think the sales will be close. Once they're both available younger kids will still want the DS because of the familiar franchises.
 
Has any one taken into account the current cost of the games for both devices as selling point for consumers? I checked Gamestop’s and EBworld’s sites they have PSP games listed at $49.99 while NDS are listed around $29.99 – $34.99. Are the PSP prices correct or just some sort of place holders?
 
RoH said:
Has any one taken into account the current cost of the games for both devices as selling point for consumers? I checked Gamestop’s and EBworld’s sites they have PSP games listed at $49.99 while NDS are listed around $29.99 – $34.99. Are the PSP prices correct or just some sort of place holders?

Sony hasn't announced any dates or prices for the PSP in the US.
 
RoH said:
All prices from http://www.jp.playstation.com/psp/index.html, and the currency converter from http://www.xe.com/ucc/

Metal gear acid 5,040yen = 48.6135 USD
Formula Front 5,040yen =48.6135 USD
Vampire Chronicles 5,040yen =48.6135 USD
Dynasty warriors 5,544 =53.4748 USD
Ape escape 5,040 =48.6135 USD

The prices still seem to be around $49.99
I hope you realize how pointless it is to compare JP prices to US prices. If you compare the retail prices of DS and PSP games IN JAPAN, they are the same. Not kinda or sorta the same, they are the same. Maybe one system will have more worthless puzzlers or budget games than the other in the long run, but that's inconsequential. The cost of the important games so far is the same, and I don't know why that would change.

PSP games won't stay priced high and unless Sony does something really stupid, they won't be priced higher than comparable PS2/PS3 games. PEACE.
 
I think it is too early for a thread like this.

The PSP is in extremely limited quantities plus there are a ton of unknown factors on the details for NA and Europe:

1) What will the price of the hardware be?

2) What will the price of the software be?

Current rumor going around is that SCEA is going to price the PSP hardware at $149.99 and the software price is going to be $29.99. IF SCEA comes in this aggressive it changes everything.
 
Mrbob said:
I think it is too early for a thread like this.

The PSP is in extremely limited quantities plus there are a ton of unknown factors on the details for NA and Europe:

1) What will the price of the hardware be?

2) What will the price of the software be?

Current rumor going around is that SCEA is going to price the PSP hardware at $149.99 and the software price is going to be $29.99. IF SCEA comes in this aggressive it changes everything.

It will be even lower! :)
 
StoOgE said:
I think the word you were searching for was analysis.

2 entries found for analyzation.
an·a·lyze
tr.v. an·a·lyzed, an·a·lyz·ing, an·a·lyz·es

1. To examine methodically by separating into parts and studying their interrelations.
 
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