I now understand the people who had Pandora Syndrome after watching Avatar because I can't stop thinking about the universe Dune Parts 1 & 2 built.
I want to see it again in IMAX, but the sole theater in my area is sold out (other than the crap seats) for at least the next two weeks at the times I could make it.
The complaint about Chalomet being too feminine when he doesn't look that different from a young Kyle Mchlachlan, is suspect...is his feminine look objectionable becuase it's LGBT adjacent? Hmm....
Yeah the complaint about Chalamet has no merit as Kyle Macklachlan also had the same royal pretty boy look. Zendaya on the other had, don't get me started.
Great film and the black and white arena fight scene was, and I hate to use the term, art. This film deserves all the industry back slapping and awards it can get.
Great film and the black and white arena fight scene was, and I hate to use the term, art. This film deserves all the industry back slapping and awards it can get.
What was that color bleaching, anyway? The light of their sun is somehow monochromatic? It was visually awesome but I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out the physics of it, as well as those liquid puff firework things
What was that color bleaching, anyway? The light of their sun is somehow monochromatic? It was visually awesome but I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out the physics of it, as well as those liquid puff firework things
Never read the books and have only seen bits and pieces of the movie/series. Went ahead and watched Part 1 and then immediately went to go see this in the theater. Going to be honest...this movie was kind of a letdown to me.
Not sure if I should blame the source material or the adaptation, but my main issue was just a complete lack of emotional weight to anything going on. Just a few examples which I will put in spoilers just in case:
1. Gurney killing Rabban. Was there a reason we should have cared about that? At this point in the movie it was akin to a professional hunter killing a blind, one-legged poodle with a shotgun. Rabban was a coward and a moron and I am not sure why I should care that it was Gurney who killed him.
2. Feyd killing the Atreides dudes in the arena. Cool looking scene....with zero emotional impact. I was confused....was that dude he killed last someone we should have known? The movie made it out like he was someone special I should know about, but I guess not?
3. Paul killing the Baron and Feyd. These characters haven't interacted at all. Not really sure why I should care about Paul killing either of them. The duel was intense since I didn't actually know the outcome, but Paul and Feyd had no prior interaction so wasn't really that invested in it. Not even sure why Feyd stood up for the Emperor while he just let Vlad die.
4. Why was the Emperor such a frail weakling? Dude gets embarrassed and upstaged in his opening scene by his daughter. At the end, he kneels and kisses Paul's ring and I am like...um, ok? The dude was weak and his forces seemed incompetent. That brings me to my biggest gripe...
5. The enemy forces were extremely weak and ineffectual. The first you see of them in Part 2 they are getting headshot sniped with their bodies flopping all over the desert. Shit was comical. Everytime you see these Sardaukar dudes they are getting their asses kicked, as well. The Emperor brings "his entire army" to the planet and proceeds to immediately get annihilated. These broadword wielding dudes get annihilated without a sound towards the end when they disappear into the fumes. Then Paul comes into the throne room and everyone just lets him walk up to Vlad and kill him. The fucking LEADER of the enemy forces is right there for you to slaughter and you do nothing? Come on, man. That shit was lame.
6. Paul goes into the desert at night to "prove himself". Meets Chani. She shit talks him a bit. Then it's suddenly daytime and Paul is leading an ambush on some hapless enemy forces. Uh, did I miss a scene? Did he "prove himself"?
Sorry for the rant, lol. But yeah, I could keep going. My question is...are the enemies so weak and ineffectual in the books as they were in this movie? I couldn't really get invested in anything because it seemed like the Fremen always had the upper hand even before Paul got there. The only thing Harkonnens seem good at are killing their own men and attacking defenseless enemy positions. Once there is an opposition, they are easily beaten.
I am not saying the movie was complete shit. It looked and sounded amazing, but I was expecting a bit more than what I got when I heard everyone raving about it as the Messiah of film-making. It could be that I am just jaded beyond repair at this point, lol. Everyone seems to love it so it's probably me. Take care.
I’m glad someone else felt the same. Never read the books, but while this movie is great, goddamn is it still a major step down from Part 1.
-as you said, the antagonists are a joke in this film, like I’m struggling to think of a film in a long time where I felt zero threat from the villains. One could argue, “well, that’s the point, it’s really about Paul embracing his dark destiny”, which you can do while still keeping the antagonists menacing, so I don’t buy that. For as much as I criticize the SW prequels, they at least had some threatening antagonists before reaching Anakin’s turn. Here, they’re getting owned constantly, Feyd is apparently supposed to impress me by killing three randos (I’ve seen most of the cast each have bigger body counts, doesn’t help they charged Feyd one at a time, in Duncan’s last stand he was sometimes fending off two guys at once), then Feyd takes out the Fremen‘s temple place which they just know the location suddenly (maybe I missed a line of dialogue explaining when they found out, even in IMAX the dialogue audio needed to be clearer at times, this was an issue with Part 1 too), then Paul and his team secure a ton of atomic bombs which just feels like it makes their already superior advantage even more superior, and finally the one notable fight at the end is between Paul and Feyd which given what’s at stake for this fight I had zero reason to believe Paul would lose.
Also, is the Emperor supposed to be stupid? Paul issues a challenge and he actually shows up on the planet that has practically become a battlefield? Maybe I missed a line that said something like the other Great Houses would lose a significant amount of respect for the Emperor if he didn’t respond, but the leader of the Galaxy itself shouldn’t be showing up on the center of a war until the enemy forces were properly vanquished.
-I don’t give a shit about almost anyone in this film. Paul‘s desire for revenge would have honestly been more interesting to me to focus on than the constant prophecy/religious angle. In the first film, the prophecy/Voice shit was there, but it felt like they kept the focus on his love for his family and his interest in this new planet, which made him a better lead in that one. Javier Bardem gets some good moments early on but eventually just becomes a total Paul simp. Paul’s mother seems to just abandon all her humanity after taking the Water, maybe that was the point, but a gradual descent would have been more interesting rather than the instant change she seemed to go through.
Everyone’s whining about the Chani change, but honestly her being the one to not like this prophecy bullshit at least made her stand out a bit even if not much. Gurney returning should have been hype, but then he felt underutilized once he came back. The Emperor and his daughter aren’t in the movie long enough for me to care about them, and Lea Seydoux’s part I guess is important for a sequel but just felt like padding for now.
Part 1, I actually liked all the leads even if it felt like this type of story had been later done better with the Stark family in the first book/season of Game of Thrones. With Part 2, it’s way too much religious prophecy shit and I don’t find it interesting at all, which again could have been fine if we still had interesting characters to follow but I just lost interest in almost everyone here.
I’m hoping the director does get to make his third Dune movie to complete his vision, and at least I know to set my expectations accordingly now. Part 1 is still excellent, but I can tell these movies as a whole aren’t going to reach the level the director achieved with Blade Runner 2049 in my eyes.
Agreed with everything you said, but your comment about Gurney reminded me of another gripe, lol. Specifically, the scene where he gets reintroduced in this movie. The Fremen ambush him and his small force and as usual just kick the shit out of them with little to no issue at all. Would it have been so hard to have Gurney actually kick the shit out of a few of them? Then have him and Paul have a quick back and forth duel until they actually recognize each other. Would have been a scene I would have actually enjoyed. But, nope!
Great film and the black and white arena fight scene was, and I hate to use the term, art. This film deserves all the industry back slapping and awards it can get.
Maybe I was too quick to jump ... but nowadays one cannot be too sure unfortunately.
The complaint about Chalomet being too feminine when he doesn't look that different from a young Kyle Mchlachlan, is suspect...is his feminine look objectionable becuase it's LGBT adjacent? Hmm....
Kyle always looked a little feminine to me as well. So maybe they wanted the same look. I like Kyle but he never had a leading man look and I was always suprised he was the star of the Dune 1984.
Dude people have always preferred overly masculine leads in there action films. This is nothing new. I have the same issue with Chalamet because he looks like a physical pushover casted to appeal to young girls. I "dont want to be him" is the problem. I wanted to be Stalone or Arnold or for that matter even Neo. Chalomet is a freaking twig in comparrison.
Not to go all "sharp knees" but... okay yep I'm going to do it anyway.
That dress is exactly what someone like her should wear, because the additional fabric to the sides (as well as the curve of the green line) is meant to give the appearance of hips, and turn a boyish silhouette into an illusion of feminine shape.
Left: with the fabric flows around her Right: approximate reality
The additional fabric illusion is evident as she turns, and you have a nice view of the added piece here... along with her totally flat backside:
With enough make-up and strategically cut clothing, she looks okay on a red carpet for a minute... but in pretty much every shot of Dune, she's about as androgynous and unappealing as possible.
Even some ugly people have attractive features but she has nothing going for her. Not ugly but very plain looking. Genuinely can't believe people think she's a beauty icon.
The other black girl who got left behind and tortured was way more attractive.
Had a long debate with my gf on this who also thinks Bella Hadid, basically a trans man, is also beautiful.
I think women associate fame and money with attractiveness and don't realise men don't work the same way.
Chani in Dune 2000 was hot. There was even nudity, unimaginable these days.
Chani in Dune 2024
Villenneuve lost the plot, for all his visuals I don't think the movie tells the story of Dune and its characters well.
There are many elements in Dune that work like a dark version of Star Wars. Rebels blowing up stuff, two big explosions that can be contrasted to Death Stars 1&2 (lazgun and nukes), good guys turning to the dark side (Paul is Anakin *and* Luke), princesses and so on. If Villeneuve had structured his Dune trilogy to be more like the original Star Wars trilogy it would have worked a lot better.
Chani in Dune 2000 was hot. There was even nudity, unimaginable these days.
Chani in Dune 2024
Villenneuve lost the plot, for all his visuals I don't think the movie tells the story of Dune and its characters well.
There are many elements in Dune that work like a dark version of Star Wars. Rebels blowing up stuff, two big explosions that can be contrasted to Death Stars 1&2 (lazgun and nukes), good guys turning to the dark side (Paul is Anakin *and* Luke), princesses and so on. If Villeneuve had structured his Dune trilogy to be more like the original Star Wars trilogy it would have worked a lot better.
In the book, Paul is threading a needle through the set of infinite possibilities under absolutely dire circumstances. The villains are supposed to be highly competent and devious all around, and the Sardauker are the toughest fighters in the galaxy if not for the slight edge to the Fremen. It’s just that Paul has prescience and some very strong cards to play.
Villeneuve fails to establish this and the bad guys became a joke.
I now understand the people who had Pandora Syndrome after watching Avatar because I can't stop thinking about the universe Dune Parts 1 & 2 built.
I want to see it again in IMAX, but the sole theater in my area is sold out (other than the crap seats) for at least the next two weeks at the times I could make it.
Yeah I cant wait for the digital 4k release to watch on the oled. Part 1 and part 2 gonna be my new lotr marathon every year.
Also, they chose zendaya and chamalatte (and the elvis guy) specifically to draw in the gen z crowd. If only oldies watch dune we wont be talking about being on the cusp of finishing a trilogy of dune movies.
I now understand the people who had Pandora Syndrome after watching Avatar because I can't stop thinking about the universe Dune Parts 1 & 2 built.
I want to see it again in IMAX, but the sole theater in my area is sold out (other than the crap seats) for at least the next two weeks at the times I could make it.
Right there with ya. This movie hit just right for me. I love it. I've always liked Dune but now I'm hooked.
On another note, I remember expressing doubt over Chalamets casting as Paul before the first movie. I think he really nailed it in the second part. I was ready to join the freeman at the end and go on his holy war lol.
Jessica and Paul teach them what they describe as the "weirding way", which is a close combat fighting style derived from the Bene Gesserit Prana-bindu physical and psychological training.
They are also incredible strong, resilient and fanatical. After the attack on Arrakeen, Tufir observes a kamikaze attack by the Fremen against the Sardaukar.
Kyle always looked a little feminine to me as well. So maybe they wanted the same look. I like Kyle but he never had a leading man look and I was always suprised he was the star of the Dune 1984.
Dude people have always preferred overly masculine leads in there action films. This is nothing new. I have the same issue with Chalamet because he looks like a physical pushover casted to appeal to young girls. I "dont want to be him" is the problem. I wanted to be Stalone or Arnold or for that matter even Neo. Chalomet is a freaking twig in comparrison.
Chalomet has too much 'heroin chic' for me, he is scrawny, not lean. Austin Butler is lean but muscular, much like Sting was in the 80's, a better physique. Paul should have a gymnasts body, if not a wrestler/MMA, since he spends a lot of time training and fighting. This aspect is not conveyed nearly as well by Chalomet as it was by MacLachlan or Newman.
vs
Actor physicality is a critical component of their ability to depict the character, and Denis does NOT care about that AT ALL (this is the French in a nutshell, I think). His version of Dune just isn't a complete one, IMHO, which means we get to look forward to yet another go at it in 10-15 years. It's an evergreen story, much like LOTR, a well that will never run dry.
Ok, watched it yesterday I've had some time to digest it. Call me crazy but I enjoyed 1st one more. For me nothing compared to the scenes where House Atreides takes stewardship of Arrakis, the sardakaur being recruited, Paul sticking his hand in the box.
As someone else stated the fights and final battle seemed inconsequential. I felt no tension.
Lastly, Chani need I say more?
I still loved it I will see it again and I hope Messiah gets made.
Chalomet has too much 'heroin chic' for me, he is scrawny, not lean. Austin Butler is lean but muscular, much like Sting was in the 80's, a better physique. Paul should have a gymnasts body, if not a wrestler/MMA, since he spends a lot of time training and fighting. This aspect is not conveyed nearly as well by Chalomet as it was by MacLachlan or Newman.
vs
Actor physicality is a critical component of their ability to depict the character, and Denis does NOT care about that AT ALL (this is the French in a nutshell, I think). His version of Dune just isn't a complete one, IMHO, which means we get to look forward to yet another go at it in 10-15 years. It's an evergreen story, much like LOTR, a well that will never run dry.
Eh, i am tired of these butch steroid ridden superheros. You dont need to look like arnold to be a decent fighter. Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Keanu and most of the 90s stars didnt feel out of place in action movies.
Paul is in like one 1v1 fight in the movie and he almost dies to a man who has been fighting drugged up fools for sport his entire life. The fight choreography was very impressive. leagues ahead of what nolan has produced. its no matrix but i never felt Timothy was not fit for the role. He nailed it even when he was giving a rousing speech in a completely made up language.
Eh, i am tired of these butch steroid ridden superheros. You dont need to look like arnold to be a decent fighter. Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Keanu and most of the 90s stars didnt feel out of place in action movies.
Paul is in like one 1v1 fight in the movie and he almost dies to a man who has been fighting drugged up fools for sport his entire life. The fight choreography was very impressive. leagues ahead of what nolan has produced. its no matrix but i never felt Timothy was not fit for the role. He nailed it even when he was giving a rousing speech in a completely made up language.
Wooooooooo, that's a take. Paul is EXTENSIVELY trained in martial arts, his ENTIRE LIFE. Plus he spends YEARS (in the books) fighting a guerilla war that, due to shield technology, relies heavily on hand to hand combat. He takes down like 5 other people in the film, including Gurney Halleck! Feyd is almost a mirror image, also extensively trained, but never allowed to prove himself outside of the birthday party duel.
And none of the actors I showed were "butch steroid ridden superheroes" (and what does 'butch' even mean when talking about men?) as I would agree that a hypertrophic bodybuilder physique would be as equally out of place for Paul as an anemic sunken chest one. Just look at how almost all the actors are fully dressed in layers. Paul and Chani are virtually never out of an elaborate and concealing garb. This not only makes their relationship almost completely sexless, it hides that they are both woefully unathletic and unconvincing when doing leg sweeps to knock over 250 pound fully armored Harkonnen shock troops. Wise choice on Denis part, to sacrifice physical intimacy and presence for these actors and to focus on a few key performances and others around them to prop them up. Those two are media darlings at the moment, so they are probably boosting the audience by virtue of their off screen antics, which helps us get more films like this, a trade off I will take but can still lament a bit.
In the book, Paul is threading a needle through the set of infinite possibilities under absolutely dire circumstances. The villains are supposed to be highly competent and devious all around, and the Sardauker are the toughest fighters in the galaxy if not for the slight edge to the Fremen. It’s just that Paul has prescience and some very strong cards to play.
Villeneuve fails to establish this and the bad guys became a joke.
I didnt even think about this, but yeah the villains do end up feeling easy mode.
To be fair, the first one also had a similar issue where the Atredis army is wiped out because one guy disabled the defense shields. Then everyone just basically folds. Wish they had put up some more of a fight back then, and same goes for the villain army this time around. They get obliterated in seconds.
Wooooooooo, that's a take. Paul is EXTENSIVELY trained in martial arts, his ENTIRE LIFE. Plus he spends YEARS (in the books) fighting a guerilla war that, due to shield technology, relies heavily on hand to hand combat. He takes down like 5 other people in the film, including Gurney Halleck! Feyd is almost a mirror image, also extensively trained, but never allowed to prove himself outside of the birthday party duel.
And none of the actors I showed were "butch steroid ridden superheroes" (and what does 'butch' even mean when talking about men?) as I would agree that a hypertrophic bodybuilder physique would be as equally out of place for Paul as an anemic sunken chest one. Just look at how almost all the actors are fully dressed in layers. Paul and Chani are virtually never out of an elaborate and concealing garb. This not only makes their relationship almost completely sexless, it hides that they are both woefully unathletic and unconvincing when doing leg sweeps to knock over 250 pound fully armored Harkonnen shock troops. Wise choice on Denis part, to sacrifice physical intimacy and presence for these actors and to focus on a few key performances and others around them to prop them up. Those two are media darlings at the moment, so they are probably boosting the audience by virtue of their off screen antics, which helps us get more films like this, a trade off I will take but can still lament a bit.
I stand corrected. I forgot about the sequence where he takes out two guards while reloading for Zendaya, but he ambushes Gurney. Not much of a fight. He also doesnt take part in the final battle which they gave to Zendaya after showing us an alternate version in the first movie where Paul was the one on the battlefield.
I am also lamenting at the ridiculous focus on steroid ridden bodies we see in superhero movies nowadays. it has set unrealistic expectations for men where even fit ones like Paul are considered weak. its good to see normal looking human beings in action movies for once. like you said, Paul has been trained by the best his entire life. what he lacks in pure strength, he makes up for in speed. He basically created a Dexterity build instead of putting all his points in Strength. lol
Right there with ya. This movie hit just right for me. I love it. I've always liked Dune but now I'm hooked.
On another note, I remember expressing doubt over Chalamets casting as Paul before the first movie. I think he really nailed it in the second part. I was ready to join the freeman at the end and go on his holy war lol.
Yeah I cant wait for the digital 4k release to watch on the oled. Part 1 and part 2 gonna be my new lotr marathon every year.
Also, they chose zendaya and chamalatte (and the elvis guy) specifically to draw in the gen z crowd. If only oldies watch dune we wont be talking about being on the cusp of finishing a trilogy of dune movies.
I stand corrected. I forgot about the sequence where he takes out two guards while reloading for Zendaya, but he ambushes Gurney. Not much of a fight. He also doesnt take part in the final battle which they gave to Zendaya after showing us an alternate version in the first movie where Paul was the one on the battlefield.
I am also lamenting at the ridiculousfocus on steroid ridden bodies we see in superhero movies nowadays. it has set unrealistic expectations for men where even fit ones like Paul are considered weak. its good to see normal looking human beings in action movies for once. like you said, Paul has been trained by the best his entire life. what he lacks in pure strength, he makes up for in speed. He basically created a Dexterity build instead of putting all his points in Strength. lol
See, I disagree there. The actors are striving to look like the source material, which is often a brute adonis in painted on latex. Just compare '66 Batman or even 80's Superman in a non-form fitting outfit, even when the actors are in pretty good shape, and it just doesn't have the visual impact.
But in general, yet, it is a bit tedious to see some washed up drunk who just happens to have a 6 pack and veiny biceps or wandering vagrant eating nothing but fast food and pie but has a 230 pound linebacker body. It's also equally annoying that women can just be thin and somehow we have to accept they can block an elbow strike from a guy 100 pounds heavier with ease and hip check him through a brick wall. I'd like a return to a more sustainable build for both men and women that focuses on athelticism and less on show muscle.
I don’t agree with the criticisms of how Walken portrayed the emperor. It might not mesh 100 percent with the book, but I think the entire point they wanted to make was that he was a weak, ineffective and frail leader. He’s surrounded by and influenced by forces around him, predominantly the Bene Gesserit and seems to have no real agency. He has no male heir and the only way he can exert his power is by playing his closest direct competitors for the throne against each other, which didn’t work out well for him at all. At the end, when he told Paul his father was a weak man, it’s pure projection and insecurity. He was minutes away from kissing Paul’s ring and securing Letos legacy. It’s actually kind of comical. He was a pathetic excuse for a ruler and I think Walken did a great job.
I don’t agree with the criticisms of how Walken portrayed the emperor. It might not mesh 100 percent with the book, but I think the entire point they wanted to make was that he was a weak, ineffective and frail leader. He’s surrounded by and influenced by forces around him, predominantly the Bene Gesserit and seems to have no real agency. He has no male heir and the only way he can exert his power is by playing his closest direct competitors for the throne against each other, which didn’t work out well for him at all. At the end, when he told Paul his father was a weak man, it’s pure projection and insecurity. He was minutes away from kissing Paul’s ring and securing Letos legacy. It’s actually kind of comical. He was a pathetic excuse for a ruler and I think Walken did a great job.
I don’t agree with the criticisms of how Walken portrayed the emperor. It might not mesh 100 percent with the book, but I think the entire point they wanted to make was that he was a weak, ineffective and frail leader. He’s surrounded by and influenced by forces around him, predominantly the Bene Gesserit and seems to have no real agency. He has no male heir and the only way he can exert his power is by playing his closest direct competitors for the throne against each other, which didn’t work out well for him at all. At the end, when he told Paul his father was a weak man, it’s pure projection and insecurity. He was minutes away from kissing Paul’s ring and securing Letos legacy. It’s actually kind of comical. He was a pathetic excuse for a ruler and I think Walken did a great job.
See, I just imagine Willem Dafoe as Emperor instead as a sinister, calculating, and shrewd near-tyrant pitting houses against each other so they can't plot against him.
But that would make him less of a pawn for the Bene Gesserit. Isn't (wasnt?) there a BG spin off show planned for Max? I seem to recall hearing about it a few years back.
Someone said Kojima's "star" rating of a movie is how many sentences he tweets about it. Compare this to Kojima's "I saw Madame Web" one-sentence review lol
Someone said Kojima's "star" rating of a movie is how many sentences he tweets about it. Compare this to Kojima's "I saw Madame Web" one-sentence review lol
Dune Part 2 is legit one of the best experiences ive had at the movie theater. Its up there with watching Avatar for the first time. The Matrix. Jurrassic Park. It's why we go to movies. I now completely understand what he meant when he was shitting on TV shows. There is something about big budget blockbusters that we need in our lives. I love tv shows but this is just on another level. The visuals, the scale, the music, the story and acting everything just comes together perfectly which is extremely rare.
I just got out of my Dune 2 showing. I enjoyed it. I do think it takes a while to get where it is going, but once it gets there it is a great trip. The final third of the film is wonderful. The buildup is good and I think it gives you a payoff. The soundtrack is powerful nd works with everything and I assumed who Anna Taylor joy was playing and I was right.
Walken was a highlight for me.
I thought in the book though his sister was born and a couple of years old by the time they took over the planet.
Yeah, I think they changed the timeline for cinematic purposes, to keep the story of this movie focused on the arcs we’re already familiar with. It did make for a bit of an awkward change, since it really fast tracks Paul’s ascension into leadership from a few years to a few months.
In the book, Paul is threading a needle through the set of infinite possibilities under absolutely dire circumstances. The villains are supposed to be highly competent and devious all around, and the Sardauker are the toughest fighters in the galaxy if not for the slight edge to the Fremen. It’s just that Paul has prescience and some very strong cards to play.
Villeneuve fails to establish this and the bad guys became a joke.
He explains it in that one monologue, but they really didn’t really follow up from his perspective, so it really did seem like a wasted opportunity.
Thing is it’s hard to translate to screen without resorting to using a narrator or confusing the audience with scenes that didn’t happen. The two movies would probably be perfect with some Darren Aronofsky style sequences about the foresight… but I still think the two movies are great as they are. Similar to how I still like the LoTR movies even though it‘s a ’travesty’ in some aspects.
Although seeing Dave Bautista get that shat on through the whole movie was a little cringe worthy.
