"DX12 did not reduce any CPU bottleneck, infact it created more bottelneck in games and decreased FPS compare to DX11" Vex

D

Desprado123

Member
"DX12 did not reduce any CPU bottleneck, infact it created more bottelneck in games and decreased FPS compare to DX11" Vex

Very detail analysis that since Dx12 is low level API but their is no major CPU benefit and the purpose of DX12 and low level is not their on PC.

 
Heard this awhile. Vulkan should be way more picked up. They actually have build-in solutions for stuff like compilation stutter, and thread spreading. DX12 is infuriatingly lacking.

Stopped watching the video halfway through. I think he's not understanding what lowlevel api's like DX12 actually accomplish compared to older Api's. With the proper understanding, DX12 can soar. Look at CP 2077 or Hitman 3.
 
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There are games that are super cpu limited in dx11 and run much better in dx12 (like tomb raider) so usually dx12 is an improvement but when GPU is the limit dx11 can be more performant.

New games are dx12 only so there is no point talking about this.
 
Stopped watching half way through. What an idiot.
Despite having a ton of games that use DX12 an 11, where DX12 is much faster he still claims DX11 has lower CPU overhead.
And using Fortnite with UE5, where in DX11 it disables nanite and lumen. As if the graphics quality where the same.
 
All about proper usage. E.g. Cyberpunk 2077 uses DX12 properly, is fully multithreaded, even supports stuff like DSR correctly. One of the best PC versions of any game. Running that in DX11 would be vastly inferior.
 
i disagree

dx12 matured enough, we have very good dx12 games that are actually rather runs good on CPUs

I can get upwards of 40+ fps with PATH tracing (bvh and all) on my AGING 2700x (underclocked to 3.7 ghz, 6 yrs old 3 months later) in Cyberpunk and alan wake 2



(this is one of the hardest place to run in dogtown, heavy vertical dense area with a lot of NPCs + path tracing adding extra BVH load. some small dips below 40 and sometimes shoot upwards of 45+. Overall experience will be over 45 FPS even with such a crap cpu. this just proves how efficient CPU bound rendering is in cyberpunk with dx12)

AC valhalla easily shoots 75+ FPS cpu bound even in city locations (as opposed to alexandria and athens which pushed me below <45 fps constantly with dx11. which means dx12 for anvil engine was a huge upgrade for cpu bound performance considering i was able to get a locked 75 fps in lunden/wincestre etc. (ac mirage is no different, preem cpu bound optimization)

hitman 3 with dx12 has fantastic cpu usage and will easily get 60+ fps with any lowend cpu

despite being a lackluster title overall, halo infinite has decent dx12 experience, im able to shoot for a locked 120 fps as long as my GPU is able

a plague tale requiem runs like a dream on dx12, you will never run into any weird cpu bottlenecks even with mismatched hardware

avatar seems to be doing fine in terms of cpu as well, and another dx12 title

I even managed to hit a FPS range between 50-60 in both ratchet and spiderman with ray tracing enabled on my nearly 6 yrs old aging and bad architecture 2700x. that is just insane. I do not for a second think this would be possible under dx11

dx12 did eventually paid off. some games still have horrible single threadness but they're outliers nowadays (jedi survivor, hogwarts legacy. usual offenders are certain ue4 titles. it just seems like ue4 dx12 is not that good. I'm sure dx12 based ue5 will have real improvements. I already see ue5 games being somewhat light on CPU)


 
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"I am not Mr. Game Developer man with years and years of experience. I don't exactly know what it is like to work with DirectX 11 vs DirectX 12."


Go Away GIF
 
winjer said:
Stopped watching half way through. What an idiot.
Despite having a ton of games that use DX12 an 11, where DX12 is much faster he still claims DX11 has lower CPU overhead.
And using Fortnite with UE5, where in DX11 it disables nanite and lumen. As if the graphics quality where the same.
Click to expand...

His knowledge is limited and it's sad that he is spreading misinformation to thousands of people.
 
Bojji said:
There are games that are super cpu limited in dx11 and run much better in dx12 (like tomb raider) so usually dx12 is an improvement but when GPU is the limit dx11 can be more performant.

New games are dx12 only so there is no point talking about this.
Click to expand...

Was just going to post that, there are many games that do gain quite a bit from it.
 
Part of the issue is that with DX11 a lot of optimization onus is on developers vs Nvidia/AMD/Intel.

So with some developers that's an advantage as can be seen in fixed up Cyberpunk, in Hitman and some other games.

However even a lot of AAA devs just don't do that performance optimization. Hence subpar performance this year in a lot of games. Look at Hogwarts, Jedi Survivor, Dead Space, etc…

Also DX11 can be less CPU intensive with lower GPU and CPU specs overall from what I remember folks testing before.
 
Bullshit, you just don't like that DX12 is more like C, rather than C# DX11. You need to lot more yourself.

Its great tragedy that this API is underutilised, because somewhat DX11 is still supported...
 
I was literally testing the Dying Light 2 benchmark a couple of days ago, and DX11 ran 10-20fps better than DX12 at Epic settings for me.

It seems to depend on the game though as i watch a PC benchmarker and some games def do run better in DX12, while some run better in DX11.
 
Denton said:
All about proper usage. E.g. Cyberpunk 2077 uses DX12 properly, is fully multithreaded, even supports stuff like DSR correctly. One of the best PC versions of any game. Running that in DX11 would be vastly inferior.
Click to expand...

Isn't BG3 similar where it runs much better on DX12 compared to 11 or was it compared to vulkan I can't remember
 
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M1chl said:
Bullshit, you just don't like that DX12 is more like C, rather than C# DX11. You need to lot more yourself.

Its great tragedy that this API is underutilised, because somewhat DX11 is still supported...
Click to expand...

Apple would've gotten rid of the old stuff right away but MS has this thing where they support legacy software for decades. It makes sense in a corporate environment, but some things need to move quicker than that.
 
Well I tried Rise of the Tomb Raider in DX11 recently on my RTX 3070/5800X machine, and CPU multicore utilization was poorer than on DX12 and in some scenes the GPU usage dropped to only 60-70%.
 
DX12 is quicker in most cases but not the leap that 11 was over 9 and 10, and the graphical additions it brings are demanding as posted, we didn't need DLSS and FSR back in those days to get higher frame rates, Vulkan should be supported more, but MS likes too much control as always.
 
The fact that is a low level API means... that you have to code at a low level to get the benefits.
Coding like you usually code for DX 11 and use DX 12 wont magically increase performance. You have to use what DX 12 offers.
 
Desprado123 said:
"DX12 did not reduce any CPU bottleneck, infact it created more bottelneck in games and decreased FPS compare to DX11" Vex

Very detail analysis that since Dx12 is low level API but their is no major CPU benefit and the purpose of DX12 and low level is not their on PC.

Click to expand...

Somewhere a DX11 driver / compiler engineer and a PlayStation OS/API designer are having a coffee and smiling somewhere saying out loud: "You could easily do better huh? How do you like them apples?"… 😂.
 
Edder1 said:
Microsoft is a software company that is terrible at software.
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There are some cases where Microsoft do some good shit. For example, their whole Visual Studio and their C++-Toolchain is pretty good, if you want to develop for Windows anyway. In fact, their MSVC compiler is still better at adhering to modern (>= C++20) standards than GCC or the piece of shit that is Clang.

That being said, Windows 11 is legitimately the worst OS I have ever had to work with.
 
In the right hands it can reap a lot of benefits over DX11. You need DX12 (or Vulkan) for RTX to work, and that is the direction visuals are moving in more and more. Alan Wake II and Cyberpunk 2077 path tracing? That's DX12 behind that.

But in my experience, in almost every game I have tried which was visually the same in DX11 and DX12, it's true that the DX12 mode has performed worse than DX11.
 
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Hudo said:
There are some cases where Microsoft do some good shit. For example, their whole Visual Studio and their C++-Toolchain is pretty good, if you want to develop for Windows anyway. In fact, their MSVC compiler is still better at adhering to modern (>= C++20) standards than GCC or the piece of shit that is Clang.

That being said, Windows 11 is legitimately the worst OS I have ever had to work with.
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Yes, they have made some decent software, but overall their software isn't great and there are far better alternatives for almost anything they make.

I still use Windows myself (currently on 11) for multimedia purposes like gaming (PC gamer here), but it's still terrible piece of software. If gaming on Linux or Mac was a real possibility I doubt many people would use Windows.
 
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I've felt this was a thing from the start. Why would anyone use this god awful API when Vulkan exists. I hate everything Microsoft has done to PC gaming the last 8 years.
 
For a very very long time, DX12 was pretty bad. I'm curiour what DX13 will bring, but we need more Vulkan support for games.
 
Typical dumb youtuber take. DX12 gives developers more low level choice thus they also are given more responsibility to do their jobs well. That's pretty much the gist of it AFAIK.
 
ChorizoPicozo said:
"Tools are not ready, give it time.
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systemr123 said:
Those are some mature tools! Only the hardware has to catch up now.
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Edder1 said:
Microsoft is a software company that is terrible at software.
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onQ123 said:
I remember when DX12 was going to magically make Xbox One beat PS4 lol
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Drell said:
Don't forget the infinite power of the cloud that changed to a dGPU.
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You gotta love the completely off topic conversation since the thread didn't turn out as they expected.
HL3.exe said:
I think he's not understanding what lowlevel api's like DX12 actually accomplish compared to older Api's.
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The DirectX versions for Xbox (which used to be different from the PC versions irrespective of their names)apparently always used low level api.
Hudo said:
There are some cases where Microsoft do some good shit. For example, their whole Visual Studio and their C++-Toolchain is pretty good, if you want to develop for Windows anyway. In fact, their MSVC compiler is still better at adhering to modern (>= C++20) standards than GCC or the piece of shit that is Clang.

That being said, Windows 11 is legitimately the worst OS I have ever had to work with.
Click to expand...
Emacs or Doom Emacs could be the best IDE if the GNU devs decided to shed some of their elitism. There's a reason Emacs is a meme.


Visual Studio is so bloated. When it comes to C/C++ development Emacs could has so much potential, if it didn't require me to dedicate my life to customising it.
 
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Edder1 said:
If gaming on Linux or Mac was a real possibility I doubt many people would use Windows.
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I am gaming on Linux right now. It is a real alternative. In fact, it is easier to run old-ass games that Windows 10 and 11 have trouble with, ironically.

Bernkastel said:
You gotta love the completely off topic conversation since the thread didn't turn out as they expected.

The DirectX versions for Xbox (which used to be different from the PC versions irrespective of their names)apparently always used low level api.

Emacs or Doom Emacs could be the best IDE if the GNU devs decided to shed some of their elitism. There's a reason Emacs is a meme.


Visual Studio is so bloated. When it comes to C/C++ development Emacs could has so much potential, if it didn't require me to dedicate my life to customising it.
Click to expand...

I agree with VisualStudio being bloated. I am more of a Vim guy myself. Emacs is OK but also gets bloated as fuck if you start to customize it to basically emulate an IDE. But that also holds true for Vim. And both Emacs and Vim are fucking horrible to configure and maintain; I agree with you on that as well. I guess Emacs is a bit better in that respect since their mutation of LISP is at least...well... LISP. And LISP is just a nice language. Whereas Vimscript is just painful. I know, NeoVim with Lua is thing as well. But I am in a phase in my life where I need to get real shit done and not want to babysit an editor anymore.
 
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Hudo said:
That being said, Windows 11 is legitimately the worst OS I have ever had to work with.
Click to expand...

For me personally, at least so far, it has been the best version for both work and play.

I guess it depends on the type of work you do of course, I can imagine it being a bit limiting in certain scenarios
 
At what point do we not blame the tools but blame the developer?

Some of them are just fucking dog shit and their games only run good on PCs from the future.
 
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