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Dyack: "NeoGAF...I would say is probably the worst forum." Response.
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
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Willy Wanka
my god this avatar owns
Ok then...
Team Klimt said:
You know, I'm trying to think of a way you could be more off-the-mark here ... but I'm coming up short.
If you want to whine about how Evil Lore handled it, be my guest. To state that a response should not have been made though ... I'm not sure you quite grasp the seriousness of what transpired, nor the necessity for a representative of neoGAF to respond.
J. M. Romeo
Banned
Just finished reading all of this, and wow. I didn't like people trying to foster a fight between 1up and GAF (I feel a lot of respect both for this community and the editors of 1up/EGM), and it's sad but I think that Dyack truly deserves the banning, if anything for acting in a very erratic way. Also, I can understand Evilore too. Shit got out of hand here and it never should have, because, let's all remember, this is just people talking about games. Not that pseudo philosophical reciprocity horseshit. Respect should be a given, but maturity also implies knowing what kind of responses is best to ignore.
what i wanna know is who else thinks Neogaf is the worst forum? he states that it is considered the worst but neogaf seems to get mentioned in one way or another on other gaming sites and even gets the occasional shout out from devs as for me i find it the best place to get news while also getting the usual lol from fellow posters
Well Insomniac has a game out every year. It's hard for anything to be a long, drawn out debacle when they've got a new product that they are focused on discussing and promoting a few months after the last one shipped. Too Human is what SK has been focused on since Twin Snakes shipped.
Also, Denis' position within his company is more along the lines of what Ted Price is to Insomniac. James' job is to interact with the community. It would strike me as equally strange for someone like Ted to make strange bets or badmouth a forum in press interviews.
ugh the boot
Member
I was so looking foward to Too Human, especially seeing as Eternal Darkness is one of my most memorable games ever.
The saddest part about all of this is imo was Dyack was just trying to communicate to the public as openly as he could, unfortunately he got caught up in all of the internet crap which lets face it there is a lot of but that's the whole point of the internet imo, you get the good with the bad and it's up to you to filter it and come out of it with some knowledge, getting all this raw info and sifting through it yourself if much better than getting fed propaganda day in day out.
Bottom line...he let his emotions get in the way of business.
I'm really not too sure about the game, I tried the demo at a mate's place last week and it was very polished (one of the reasons I game), unfortunately there was too much commotion to appreciate it properly, so I dunno, I might read some more reviews cuz it definately doesn't sound broken...just a bit repetitive and Stanglehold was very repetitive but it doesn't stop if from being one of the most awesome/stylish action experiences i've ever had.
I really feel as though Denis Dyack should've just kept quiet and spent more time focusing on his game. Personally all the blogs and forum posts about the game means he's spending too much time talking about it instead of working on it and as we can see from review scores it needed a bit more attention.
I'm really sorry to say this Mr Dyack but all of this has been brought upon by yourself and unfortunately your team members have to suffer for it aswell. Maybe next time just let your game do all the talking.
The saddest part about all of this is imo was Dyack was just trying to communicate to the public as openly as he could, unfortunately he got caught up in all of the internet crap which lets face it there is a lot of but that's the whole point of the internet imo, you get the good with the bad and it's up to you to filter it and come out of it with some knowledge, getting all this raw info and sifting through it yourself if much better than getting fed propaganda day in day out.
Bottom line...he let his emotions get in the way of business.
I'm really not too sure about the game, I tried the demo at a mate's place last week and it was very polished (one of the reasons I game), unfortunately there was too much commotion to appreciate it properly, so I dunno, I might read some more reviews cuz it definately doesn't sound broken...just a bit repetitive and Stanglehold was very repetitive but it doesn't stop if from being one of the most awesome/stylish action experiences i've ever had.
I really feel as though Denis Dyack should've just kept quiet and spent more time focusing on his game. Personally all the blogs and forum posts about the game means he's spending too much time talking about it instead of working on it and as we can see from review scores it needed a bit more attention.
I'm really sorry to say this Mr Dyack but all of this has been brought upon by yourself and unfortunately your team members have to suffer for it aswell. Maybe next time just let your game do all the talking.
Other, smaller, less respected forums seem to have it in for GAF.Spurs_Fan said:what i wanna know is who else thinks Neogaf is the worst forum? he states that it is considered the worst but neogaf seems to get mentioned in one way or another on other gaming sites and even gets the occasional shout out from devs as for me i find it the best place to get news while also getting the usual lol from fellow posters
freethought
Member
Man, the Jeff Bell/Master Ninja thread was one of the first threads I read on GAF and was probably my favourite... until now.
Good on you Evilore, I think you made exactly the right call. I mean come on, Molyneux is known for talking a big game, but could anyone here seriously imagine him becoming embroiled in this kind of shit. And to all of the apologists and 'too mature' fans; where exactly did EviLore (or anyone else on the board for that matter) slag off TH anywhere but on GAF?
Good on you Evilore, I think you made exactly the right call. I mean come on, Molyneux is known for talking a big game, but could anyone here seriously imagine him becoming embroiled in this kind of shit. And to all of the apologists and 'too mature' fans; where exactly did EviLore (or anyone else on the board for that matter) slag off TH anywhere but on GAF?
Deadly Monk
Banned
What a sourpuss.
Maybe if his game wasn't so mediocre and he wasn't so stupid, I'd care. Eternal Darkness was neat though. He reminds me of one of those nerds in a group of nerds that no one listens to and is picked on because he's the dumbest in the group.
Maybe if his game wasn't so mediocre and he wasn't so stupid, I'd care. Eternal Darkness was neat though. He reminds me of one of those nerds in a group of nerds that no one listens to and is picked on because he's the dumbest in the group.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Since Dennis couldn't seem to be able to stop bad mouthing GAF in other media outlets (but continue to pimp his game here in the official TH thread) its not a shocking
Its still amazing that a CEO of a company continues to behave like this. I keep thinking at some point someone would get a hold of Dyack and start doing some PR spin. Instead Dennis continued to get worse.
Its still amazing that a CEO of a company continues to behave like this. I keep thinking at some point someone would get a hold of Dyack and start doing some PR spin. Instead Dennis continued to get worse.
People were talking in terms of degradation from one set of media to another with relation to R2 itself and when pressed to provide explicit examples, they couldn't. This wasn't about simply preferring how a particular lighting model works in a particular scene, they were claiming it was outright downgraded, aka the original media were bullshots. They inferred a lot more than they could empirically justify based on the initial stills.FightyF said:
I'd say the potential for positive discussion is the same with people whether they overreach themselves and attempt to sound like they know what they're talking about or just declare that they don't like something - it's all down to their motive for posting and just how receptive they are to the criticism they'll get for their choice of approach.
After seeing how Dennis was using the official TH thread, for him to go behind their backs and call neogaf the worst forum out there, I can't see how anyone would see his actions as anything other than cowardly and back-stabbing. All of the people who were giving the game a fair shake in the TH topic he basically gave the middle finger to like joking and paling around with them then saying "oh btw you and your forum sucks!". To THEM specifically I think he owes an apology and not any more of this phony ass "PR merry-go-round helping your game get more attention hoping to sell one extra copy pissing contest" crap. I mean a real man to man dev to gamer apology. I don't care if you have to email each and every one of them in that topic who bought your game because you got banned. They deserve one.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Dude, I got banned for calling Amirox a troll. I see no problem with him getting banned for doing that love/hate thing. He's such a douche. If you are in the entertainment industry, you have to be able to take criticism. Period.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
there's a huge difference between how an anonymous poster on a message board could act and how a well known developer trying to hype his game on a message board could act.Gbeav said:
Thank you EviLore! I decided a long time ago I refuse to purchase Too Human regardless of whether or not it turned out to be decent. I refuse to support anyone who speaks of the communtiy I love as if they are the devil and then treats us like a bunch of lab rats.
When his "for or against" thread came out, I refused to join in. Why encourage him? IMO he does not deserve to be a part of GAF.
To me, online message boards are a benefit, and product of Free Speech. To say that an internet message board THAT EXIST TO DISCUSS VIDEO GAMES should be shutdown because they are somehow harmful to society is reflective of a communist attitude. Thats right i said it. Piece of shit communist.
We live in the age of information, and as this age matures products and services become more and more transparent. We no longer live in the days of buying a game only to be utterly and completely dissapointed, feeling mislead by some sly marketing scheme. Thanks in part to forums like GAF, we can make educated decisions about our purchases. That means that in this day and age if you want to release a game at full retail, and want it to succeed to some degree, you had better make sure the quality is there.
Perhaps if Dyack should have spent less time reading, less time isolating and insulting his core audience, and less time doing early and misguided damage control. Perhaps he should have spent more time making sure that his game was top notch instead. As long as Too Human has been in development is there really an excuse for releasing anything but excellence?
If anyone is to blame for the negative critical reaction to Too Human it is not GAF. No, the responsibility falls entirely on Dyacks shoulders. So IF the game does fail, he can not blame anyone but himself.
When his "for or against" thread came out, I refused to join in. Why encourage him? IMO he does not deserve to be a part of GAF.
To me, online message boards are a benefit, and product of Free Speech. To say that an internet message board THAT EXIST TO DISCUSS VIDEO GAMES should be shutdown because they are somehow harmful to society is reflective of a communist attitude. Thats right i said it. Piece of shit communist.
We live in the age of information, and as this age matures products and services become more and more transparent. We no longer live in the days of buying a game only to be utterly and completely dissapointed, feeling mislead by some sly marketing scheme. Thanks in part to forums like GAF, we can make educated decisions about our purchases. That means that in this day and age if you want to release a game at full retail, and want it to succeed to some degree, you had better make sure the quality is there.
Perhaps if Dyack should have spent less time reading, less time isolating and insulting his core audience, and less time doing early and misguided damage control. Perhaps he should have spent more time making sure that his game was top notch instead. As long as Too Human has been in development is there really an excuse for releasing anything but excellence?
If anyone is to blame for the negative critical reaction to Too Human it is not GAF. No, the responsibility falls entirely on Dyacks shoulders. So IF the game does fail, he can not blame anyone but himself.
I dont see anything wrong with what he said here:
Neogaf worst forum quote
In a way he was right.... the choice of the word "worst" was probably a poor one. But due to the size/traffic/activity at GAF it really is the epicentre of gaming message boards.
Thats all.
Neogaf worst forum quote
In a way he was right.... the choice of the word "worst" was probably a poor one. But due to the size/traffic/activity at GAF it really is the epicentre of gaming message boards.
Thats all.
King_Slender
Banned
I can't dig through every page, but for those that missed it:
:lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol
Wow..I take it Dyack never visited IGN, or cuz IGN's always kissing his ass, that he feels like a king, but when GAF criticizes a game and he can't filter the messages, he takes a shot here. Can't believe alot of so-called developers criticize GAF's Freedom of Speech, hell we're not IGN, GS or 1up, who bow to corporate leashes all the times or can't say anything negative w/out getting our messages erased. I applaud your stand Evillore.
MorisUkunRasik said:
And that is the problem.
Sure the game isn't very good, sure he went overboard but at least he showed up with some passion.
He didn't fling George Carlins 10 dirty words around like a 15 year old because he can. This thread just pissed me off more than anything, don't take it personal.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Why is that a problem? There's also a difference between how a convenience store worker can act in public vs the President of the United States.Gbeav said:
Dyack is the de facto public figure for his company. His company creates products that rely on end consumers purchasing them in order to stay in business. It therefore comes with his job that he has to show a bit more restraint than the average message board poster.
Virtually every other developer in the business has no problems with this aspect of the job. It's to Denis' detriment that he does.
Of course, this is part of a larger pattern of erratic behaviour on his part. If taking shots at NeoGAF was the only crazy thing he's done in recent times, I'd be less worried about his mental health. I hope he gets the help he needs.
King_Slender
Banned
Gbeav said:
No, but Dyack took the wrong approach.
First, he came on and posted some dumb ass avatar tag challenge, and then in catching wind that the reviews would probably be mediocre at best, he says it was some social experiement he was conducting and that places like GAF should be shut down.
What a MAN would do was say "Look, we put our heart and souls into this project and in the end it didn't end up fulfilling our original vision. Such is the life of a video game developer and we will take the lessons learned with Too Human to make our next project better."
FirstInHell
Banned
I am not sure what you were hoping to accomplish with this banning. It just seems very spiteful and childish. One of the things that is unique about NeoGaf is that developers frequent the site and sometimes talk with the fans about their games. This is clearly evident in the other Too Human thread. Dyack posted a lot of useful info and responded to fans who are anticipating this game. It is a shame that it had to be spoiled by someone's dick waving. Contrary to what all of the cheerleaders in this thread would have you think, some people are actually looking forward to playing this game.
What is it to the owners of this site if the guy says the forum is 'the worst'. The only side effect it has is getting the site's name mentioned in blogs which in turn drives more traffic to the forum.
What is it to the owners of this site if the guy says the forum is 'the worst'. The only side effect it has is getting the site's name mentioned in blogs which in turn drives more traffic to the forum.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I've noticed that in any culture with no moral compass hypocrisy becomes the only sin.Gbeav said:
Minsc
Gold Member
I have no hatred towards Silicon Knights, never heard of Dyack before people started putting Too Human and Diablo 3 in the same sentence, and rather enjoyed Eternal Darkness, perhaps in part to missing out on all the hype at the time.
Having made it through the For or Against thread and this one, and sections of a few others, I'm going to say Dyack rightly suffered one of the worst critical failures I've ever seen.
Having made it through the For or Against thread and this one, and sections of a few others, I'm going to say Dyack rightly suffered one of the worst critical failures I've ever seen.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
FirstInHell said:
Yeah, that would be Evilore. The owner, I mean.
FirstInHell
Banned
Zeitgeister said:
I know. How does that have any bearing on the validity of my question?
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It answers it. Apparently the owner wasn't too happy about it.FirstInHell said:
Flakster99
Member
This entire exchange shares many similarities with the escapades of Brad McQuaid (as far as I know he wasn't banned, his disgrace was more than enough) and the saga that was Vanguard on the Fires of Heaven message board during it's beta phase.
Anyway, good on you Evilore, now lets all go have some beers and move on.
Anyway, good on you Evilore, now lets all go have some beers and move on.
King_Slender said:
Ya I know what he did, and he thought it was some personal social experiment. It wasn't the smartest thing to do.
And yes he isn't the best at PR, I agree but jesus let it die. This thread is going to hit 1000 pages on the sole reason children are allowed to say whatever they want on the internet (be careful people...this.. isn't... true!)
Mommy and daddy could be getting a nasty letter from a judge.
...and no I never meant you King_slender.
Tormentoso
Banned
Well done.
FirstInHell said:
I think it's fairly obvious what EviLore intends to accomplish - an end to Dyack vs. NeoGAF drama on NeoGAF. This thread is a necessary evil - but it allows us to have it out, here and now. Say everything you have to say on the subject in this thread, because I expect that Dyack vs. NeoGAF will not be a permissible topic for future threads.
There were two ways, as forum administrators, to deal with the Dyack situation:
1. Ignore him, let him shoot self in foot, let the wolves eat him, and watch him limp off - a husk of his former self.
2. Ban him the moment it started getting bad to protect him from HIMSELF. Obviously his PR people weren't going to do it.
Neither of these things happened, so there's no way for GAF to be right about this. There's just a matter of how far into the "Wrong" Dyack is willing to push himself. He has, basically, pulled a Derek Smart here. He's made himself look like a dipshit of the highest order and should be punished repeatedly in the press. GAF however, lost their chance to punish him a looooooooong time ago. Now the hive just looks obsessive.
P.S. I come here for the news and pictures.
1. Ignore him, let him shoot self in foot, let the wolves eat him, and watch him limp off - a husk of his former self.
2. Ban him the moment it started getting bad to protect him from HIMSELF. Obviously his PR people weren't going to do it.
Neither of these things happened, so there's no way for GAF to be right about this. There's just a matter of how far into the "Wrong" Dyack is willing to push himself. He has, basically, pulled a Derek Smart here. He's made himself look like a dipshit of the highest order and should be punished repeatedly in the press. GAF however, lost their chance to punish him a looooooooong time ago. Now the hive just looks obsessive.
P.S. I come here for the news and pictures.
FirstInHell
Banned
Danthrax said:
Pure stupidity. Anytime Dyack mentioned NeoGaf, it was free publicity for the site.
Flakster99
Member
FirstInHell said:
Negative publicity, to which Dennis was doing his best to curb away from TH. Kinda Ironic, huh.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
If anything, this forum is overly tolerant of spam from industry professionals. As far as I can tell, the last time Dyack made a post outside of a Too Human thread was 8/22/07. And the topic of that thread? An interview with Dennis Dyack. The guy was whoring product and nothing else.FirstInHell said:
surprised no one's posted it yet. you KNOW Dyack has become infamous when he gets a Castle Vidcon about him. :lol
http://www.castle-vidcons.com/2008/08/19/comic-56-the-latest-score/#comments
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
http://www.castle-vidcons.com/2008/08/19/comic-56-the-latest-score/#comments
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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