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[Zeliard]

Oh comeon. That's not even reasonable. If it weren't for NeoGAFs hivemind assassins maneuvering through the interwab searching and acquiring interesting news - most of the time before anyone, this place would be one step above Gaia. But the news aspect of NeoGAF places it in the top echelon of gaming sites. As I've said before, the discourse here... leaves a lot to be desired.

Edit: Apologies for the backhanded compliment, but reality is a bitch.

The discourse here is at a considerably higher level than most other gaming forums. The issue is that since GAF is so popular, it will attract all types, including a lot of trolls and otherwise poor posters. It also attracts a lot of great posters. The ban-heavy moderation here combined with the delayed membership does a great deal in keeping out a lot of the FUD and bullshit found in other forums. Most people don't want to risk doing anything be banned when a lot have to wait quite a while for posting privileges.

 

[DCharlie]

Your game is a bit of a flop.

Dyack insults GAF, people come to see what the fuss is about
GAF insults Dyack, people go to see what his game is about

I have a feeling that , sales wise, the game isn't going to be the flop people think it will be, and i think the GAF drama has helped the games cause.

 

[Socreges]

this could have just been idiots flinging poo at each other and it would have been alright by me. but this devolved into something apparently more important and that's just not right.

as a brilliant man once said, and i hope i quote him correctly: "it's a videogame message board on the internet"

...games. i mean, there are few things less important in this world at the moment than videogames. maybe they'll play an important role in the future, but at the moment they are often little more than sensational distractions or, at best, clichéd commentaries

there are several weird things about this analogy -- the hackneyed power fantasy, the knife that appears out of nowhere, the belief that sticking up for one's own game is somehow altruistic -- but i particularly like that both the woman and her gallant rescuer are played by denis dyack. the man's egoism is epic and fascinating in just the way that his games aren't

:lol

where did he say that anyway?

i remember there was a time, years ago, when i sort of revered developers. then i began to see them as just normal people. but situations like this illustrate how they can be even less than normal. and i don't mean eccentric, or anything admirable, just... bad.

 

[Joates]

oh net drama. :lol

Put up or shut up - Dyack's attitude to people critcizing the short comings of the game.


The game didn't put up, so Dyack had to be shut up. Well played, Mr. Malka.

Dear lord why?

Banning him from GAF does not shut him up, unless of course, GAF is your internet...

I cant believe people cant see how this is so childish on both sides, sure Dyack is a baby, does that mean we have to make pitiful jabs back?

 

[pilonv1]

You two are as bad as each other, like a pair of children.

Still as true as it was 24 pages ago

 

[ghibli99]

A bit off topic, but I never knew so many people hated GAF?? :lol

I'm reading comments in other forums/sites and so many people utterly hate this place.

I am guessing they are banned members right?

For some reason, lots of folks are intimidated by this place. You can't get away with as much here as you can on other forums. There are a *lot* of very intelligent people here, which is why I enjoy hanging out and posting here. I get called out now and then, which helps keep me more honest with myself than just coming out and spewing some nonsense. Not to say I'm smart (hell, I'll say it, I only scored 1070 on my SATs), but I get more out of conversations here than I do on any other forum, and this place gets bonus points for being about stuff I love: games.

 

[Azih]

I wonder what the ratios are... GAF is very hiveminded, regardless of whether or not the mods let some dissention through the back doors of threads.

Oh, so it's a mod conspiracy to make it *look* like there's a lot of debate and the hivemind only gets trotted out for the benefit of freaking Denis Dyack huh?

Bullshit. All the console warz, E3 hysteria, NPD meltdowns, non games debates and so on happen *precisely* because this place isn't a hivemind.

 

[Joates]

Oh, so it's a mod conspiracy to make it *look* like there's a lot of debate and the hivemind only gets trotted out for the benefit of freaking Denis Dyack huh?

Bullshit. All the console warz, E3 hysteria, NPD meltdowns, non games debates and so on happen *precisely* because this place isn't a hivemind.

Hmmm, lets just say GAFs Hivemindedness is situational, moreso than other forums...

 

[Dabookerman]

For some reason, lots of folks are intimidated by this place. You can't get away with as much here as you can on other forums. There are a *lot* of very intelligent people here, which is why I enjoy hanging out and posting here. I get called out now and then, which helps keep me more honest with myself than just coming out and spewing some nonsense. Not to say I'm smart (hell, I'll say it, I only scored 1070 on my SATs), but I get more out of conversations here than I do on any other forum, and this place gets bonus points for being about stuff I love: games.

Yeah, I always thought it was just jealousy really. So many developers and people in the industry come to post here, which I find great. There are a lot of great posters here who know what they talk about. I used to love flame wars in forums, but I just don't have the energy for it now ;p

I know one thing for sure, Dyack should have known what was coming. Hell I really like Eternal Darkness, but a lot of things put me off this game. I wasn't really interested in it in the first place, but the demo was pretty awful. I guess I don't get it's true brilliance.

 

[FrankT]

Dyack insults GAF, people come to see what the fuss is about
GAF insults Dyack, people go to see what his game is about

I have a feeling that , sales wise, the game isn't going to be the flop people think it will be, and i think the GAF drama has helped the games cause.

Wouldn't that be something. August NPD could be pretty delicious on that front.

 

[jonnybryce]

A bit off topic, but I never knew so many people hated GAF?? :lol

I'm reading comments in other forums/sites and so many people utterly hate this place.

I am guessing they are banned members right?

Gaf is famous. News happens here. News doesn't happen other places. Thus, they are jealous.

That and things are strictly enforced to keep the unwanted away.

 

[Azih]

Hmmm, lets just say GAFs Hivemindedness is situational, moreso than other forums...

Right, backpeddle moar. If this was actually a hivemind you would have been kicked out already for dissenting. If this was actually a hivemind there wouldn't be one positive word about Too Human at all which is plainly not true.

That Dyack's antics are one of the few rare cases in which the fractious nature of GAF comes even close to a consensus says far more about DYACK than it does about GAF.

 

[Cipherr]

In skip's defence, I don't think its good form to attack or heavily criticize a guest of your show, even if you don't agree with him.

I just wanted to say....


THIS.

I'm not sure how many pages this thread is now, or how long ago this was posted but I agree. Noone should expect 1up to have given DD hell when he came on their show. They have a business to run, and if they don't do everything they can to maintain their exclusives (no matter how weird those exclusives turn out to be) then they lose viewers.

Business first.

 

[Joates]

Right, backpeddle moar. If this was actually a hivemind you would have been kicked out already for dissenting. If this was actually a hivemind there wouldn't be one positive word about Too Human at all which is plainly not true.

That Dyack's antics are one of the few rare cases in which the fractious nature of GAF comes even close to a consensus says far more about DYACK than it does about GAF.

Lets see, my idea that GAF is hiveminded reflects on the fact that evilore lowers himself and the forum to Dyacks level, and GAFfers elevate him to the status of "God".

Which is just as fucking retarded as thinking Dyack is a God...

@ bold ~ No. Just no, look at this thread, look at the number of people defending GAF as this last bastion of forum hope on the internet, yet with each thread like this we step one rung lower closer to other forums.

@ underline ~ :lol The place you just described does not exist, sorry.

 

[Mejilan]

I still feel bad for him. I know he basically brought this on himself, but he always seemed like he had a real passion for his games. I'd say that passion usually came through and gave his prior games a lot of heart, and contributed largely to why I liked them so much despite their flaws (which some games had more than others).

It's a damn shame he seemed to just completely lose it with Too Human.

 

[McBradders]

I just wanted to say....


THIS.

I'm not sure how many pages this thread is now, or how long ago this was posted but I agree. Noone should expect 1up to have given DD hell when he came on their show. They have a business to run, and if they don't do everything they can to maintain their exclusives (no matter how weird those exclusives turn out to be) then they lose viewers.

Business first.

If he was there to talk about the game then yes, I would agree with you, but he used it as a soapbox to backpedal on his initial statement here.

He could have made a post here to inform us of his "experiment".

He could have posted on his company's website or his personal blog about it.

Instead he chose to trick a media outlet on to letting him on their show to use as a personal bullhorn to show so-called intellectual superiority over "some dumb kids on the internet".

1upYours is a show high on the lulz, and I would honestly love to think that's why they broadcast it. In fact I'm going to go right ahead and think that much like I have done since it broadcasted.

 

[Tritroid]

The internet does not revolve around Dyack or GAF...

Reading shit like this makes me sad I post and even read here.

So solve your own dilema and don't do either?

 

[commariodore64]

Lets see, my idea that GAF is hiveminded reflects on the fact that evilore lowers himself and the forum to Dyacks level, and GAFfers elevate him to the status of "God".

Which is just as fucking retarded as thinking Dyack is a God...

@ bold ~ No. Just no, look at this thread, look at the number of people defending GAF as this last bastion of forum hope on the internet, yet with each thread like this we step one rung lower closer to other forums.

@ underline ~ :lol The place you just described does not exist, sorry.

Who elevated EvilLore to a god!? I missed that thread...

Are you sure you haven't been generalizing your take on this thread a bit? And might that not result in you perhaps forming less than credible opinions of this situation? Perhaps even elevating your incorrect perspective to a level of correctness that is 'fucking retarded'? Even causing you to keep pushing this opinion around this topic like it were some god?... you get the idea...

 

[jett]

Good form. Buh-bye Dyack.

 

[Zeliard]

Lets see, my idea that GAF is hiveminded reflects on the fact that evilore lowers himself and the forum to Dyacks level, and GAFfers elevate him to the status of "God".

Which is just as fucking retarded as thinking Dyack is a God...

@ bold ~ No. Just no, look at this thread, look at the number of people defending GAF as this last bastion of forum hope on the internet, yet with each thread like this we step one rung lower closer to other forums.

@ underline ~ :lol The place you just described does not exist, sorry.

Have you read the thread? Several people have been critical of the banning and disagreed with it.

 

[kamorra]

It's about time. I don't care if he's a dev or not, people got banned for lesser things than his neverending nagging and whining.

@ bold ~ No. Just no, look at this thread, look at the number of people defending GAF as this last bastion of forum hope on the internet, yet with each thread like this we step one rung lower closer to other forums.

I've also saw a lot of pro Dyack comments. We are not the Borg.

 

[ghibli99]

Yeah, I always thought it was just jealousy really. So many developers and people in the industry come to post here, which I find great. There are a lot of great posters here who know what they talk about. I used to love flame wars in forums, but I just don't have the energy for it now ;p

Yep, I see it elsewhere too. On small car sites, people flame the biggest/best sites because they think people are mean, etc., but usually it's because they were called out on their own BS, ignorance, rulebreaking, or lack of respect. Forum trickle-down effect... if you can't hack it on the best, create a smaller forum and bitch to your peers there. Same thing as in the BBS days.

 

[SapientWolf]

Banning him in this fashion does nothing but give him more publicity, I for one would have been much more content seeing him fade into the background...

I mean really, this game seems like it was something like a child to Dyack (Him being the overprotective, delusional mother), and now its on the chopping block, what more could you ask for?

I don't think Dyack is the kind of person who would quietly fade into the background.

 

[Joates]

Have you read the thread? Several people have been critical of the banning and disagreed with it.

Oh my god, well you know what guys, if thats your definition of hivemindedness, You win, I give up because, like I said, the place he described doesnt exist.

All this thread shows is GAF is fucking full of itself. Just like the person this thread is about, Mr Dyack.

 

[Kayas]

Noone should expect 1up to have given DD hell when he came on their show.

I agree that 1UP shouldn't be expected to attack Dyack while on their show like some have suggested, but they are expected to ask questions that the audience wants to hear. Which I think they handled fine. Plus who knows what restrictions they had in the interview with Dyack.

They have a business to run, and if they don't do everything they can to maintain their exclusives (no matter how weird those exclusives turn out to be) then they lose viewers.

Business first.

But if you're business is pleasing fans who want to know the good and bad about a game then you'll quickly be out of business taking that approach. While you do have to respect certain restrictions in interviews, you can not just give all out fluff pieces to developers.

I think 1UP does a good job in keeping fans happy and still maintaining developer trust without compromising their integrity.

 

[commariodore64]

Have you read the thread? Several people have been critical of the banning and disagreed with it.

...insert 'vocal minority' joke here?

Seriously though, most of the dissenting opinions are with people who are NOT on this topic by choice - just like people who don't like THe Hills ain't hangin out watching it giving their opinion...

 

[MisterHero]

A game with a development build-up and hype such as Too Human's was always destined to be either an epic win or an epic fail. This is epic fail, as far as word-of-mouth mindshare goes.

However, I will find a way to actually play Too Human someday and construct my opinion of the game design aspect.

Personally, I think it's fair and encouraging to say that the sequel can always learn from the first's mistakes. This applies even to games that are critical successes.

 

[pilonv1]

Have you read the thread? Several people have been critical of the banning and disagreed with it.

and some of them were banned.

 

[Zeliard]

Oh my god, well you know what guys, if thats your definition of hivemindedness, You win, I give up because, like I said, the place he described doesnt exist.

All this thread shows is GAF is fucking full of itself. Just like the person this thread is about, Mr Dyack.

A shitload of people have been defending Dyack in this thread. There's no hivemind here. The GAF hivemind with relation to Dyack/Too Human was going on pre-demo, when the game was being constantly shat on here. After the demo, that lessened considerably, and the Too Human supporters started being more vocal as they were either drowned out or simply stayed away from Too Human threads on GAF previously.

 

[Aruarian Reflection]

Not to say I'm smart (hell, I'll say it, I only scored 1070 on my SATs), but I get more out of conversations here than I do on any other forum, and this place gets bonus points for being about stuff I love: games.

Don't worry about SATs, I literally aced them and I'll be the first to tell anybody they have nothing to do with intelligence.

I come to NeoGAF mostly for the news and the discussion on less popular games that I won't see anywhere else. Sure, there's a fair share of idiots on here, but they're balanced out by plenty of thoughtful and generous posters.

 

[Kayas]

and some of them were banned.

They were banned for making stupid remarks in relation to the ban, not for merely opposing the decision.

 

[Azih]

Lets see, my idea that GAF is hiveminded reflects on the fact that evilore lowers himself and the forum to Dyacks level

Any normal member would have been banned for the put up or shut up thread and Dyack using his stature to *publicly* slag NeoGaf demanded a public response. This place gave Dyack crazy leeway due to his stature as a developer and is heavily heavily moderating the official Too Human thread. I think you're forgetting the point at which Dyack called this place probably the worst forum out there while happily taking advantage of the official thread

No. Just no, look at this thread, look at the number of people defending GAF as this last bastion of forum hope on the internet

Who? And as for the underline, have you not seen the official thread? Do you not know that it exists? Do you not know that Dyack was happily posting away with a bunch of gaffers who were hanging off his every word?

 

[Joates]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169283

This is the first thing that came to mind when I thought Hivemind... Thats not counting OT.

Regardless of that though, this isnt really about whether or not GAF is a Hivemind, has hivemind tendencies etc etc.

 

[Y2Kev]

LOL at "you are babies." Who gives a shit? I wish evilore posted a huge 40 mb Mama Robotnik GIF with star Wars and Star Trek and NPD numbers and then Denis Dyack being the death star at the end and then I wish 500 ball lickers all licked his balls and slurped slurped so that all you fucking whiners about forum honor got it in your face. Shut the fuck up, wow. It's a message board. If you don't like drama, go subscribe to a mail newsletter about knitting.

 

[besada]

Oh my god, well you know what guys, if thats your definition of hivemindedness, You win, I give up because, like I said, the place he described doesnt exist.

All this thread shows is GAF is fucking full of itself. Just like the person this thread is about, Mr Dyack.

So, when contradicted by facts, your solution is to throw a fit and wash your hands? Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Your contribution to this thread has been to state something that's factually not true, then whine when called on it.

Want to keep trying?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

There is always a degree of hivemind behavior to any forum. Arguing that there isn't is asinine.

 

[pilonv1]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169283

This is the first thing that came to mind when I thought Hivemind... Thats not counting OT.

Regardless of that though, this isnt really about whether or not GAF is a Hivemind, has hivemind tendencies etc etc.

Was wondering when someone would link to that thread, it's certainly interesting reading now.

 

[Joates]

Any normal member would have been banned for the put up or shut up thread and Dyack using his stature to *publicly* slag NeoGaf demanded a public response. This place gave Dyack crazy leeway due to his stature as a developer and is heavily heavily moderating the official Too Human thread. I think you're forgetting the point at which Dyack called this place probably the worst forum out there while happily taking advantage of the official thread

Who? And as for the underline, have you not seen the official thread? Do you not know that it exists?

Uhh, GAF is not *public* and doesnt really equate to a public response seeing as how hes merely banned from GAF... just GAF.

 

[Bearillusion]

As Confucius once said, “the photoshop cat juggles a ball of yarn, and unravels it all over his face.” You are Baldur, Denis. You’re the poorly animated bald Norse technogod, the Übermensch with a thousand pointless book references misunderstood by the dirty proles who aren’t worthy enough to judge you.

Your favorite Nietzsche quote, "he who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster," is one you’ve fallen victim to yourself, if your opinion of this site is to be taken to heart. In these pitiable confrontations with us you've proven to be the monster of gaming development, a sore on the industry and a squanderer of your subordinates' time and effort. Through all this, through this self-inflicted PR nightmare, you’ve conquered vast new frontiers of unwarranted hyperbole and desperate pseudo-intellectual grasping. Buy an unaccredited doctorate, change your given name to Derek, and take up the reins; Derek Smart would eagerly defer to the greatness of Dr. Dyack.

What is an appropriate action to take in response to the man who continues to post here? I won't be tolerating a second retconned "social experiment," a second call for NeoGAF's closing, or a second "worst forum" insult. You decided to ignore the option for real terms for your pointless tag bet, so with the majority of reviews condemning your magnum opus to mediocrity I'll claim a suitable prize by telling you to get the hell off NeoGAF.

I tell my son to ignore his little sister when she annoys him for attention. You should give it a go.

 

[FightyF]

To take that a step further, look at JTS's responses. None of them even remotely resemble what Dyack tried to pull.

Of course, but if trolling Resistance 2 was commonplace for nearly 2 years on this forum, JStevenson could have perhaps reacted differently.

FightyF said he's never seen this kind of a response to a game before...

And then...

I don't know of anybody who definitively said the game was horrible because we indeed had not played it.

That's your problem right there. If you don't see why I'm calling it like it is, I encourage you to check the threads.

Have you read the thread? Several people have been critical of the banning and disagreed with it.

Yeah, but I'm not part of said "hive-mind". I'm not on GAF IRC all day and look at the red tag by my name, I got it because I said that I hoped that they would turn down the blur in F1:CE. I am clearly NOT a part of any hive mind here.

I still feel bad for him.

Though I think banning him was unfair, I'm honestly LESS concerned about him and MORE concerned about the forum.

Will there be an admission that the lack of moderation of the TH threads were a mistake? The reasons that made GAF one of the best forums on the web, were not present in those threads. No moderation, little in regards to intelligent discussion, etc. If you want needless trolling of a title, go to systemwarz.com or something.

The thing is, we almost saw the Banjo Kazooie thread hit the same fate. All because it had vehicles. I think at that point many posters here said "enough is enough" and didn't allow it to go the way of the TH threads.

 

[EviLore]

I tell my son to ignore his little sister when she annoys him for attention. You should give it a go.

Thanks, dad.

 

[Pseudo judo]

Oh my god, well you know what guys, if thats your definition of hivemindedness, You win, I give up because, like I said, the place he described doesnt exist.

All this thread shows is GAF is fucking full of itself. Just like the person this thread is about, Mr Dyack.

Gaf used to be quite good 3 years ago, it had the same quick wit/gifs but had many devs and insiders talking games with regular folk who were also knowledgeable and wanted to do the same. Now everyone either wants to be the funny guy and the gaming discussion seems to be a love fest or a hate fest with little to no intelligent back and forth. As someone mentioned already, it's worth coming here because the Gaf ninjas get and post the news first and some of the funny is still just that, but the hate and the Gaf=Gaming mentality gets far too overbearing to stay very long.

 

[Azih]

Uhh, GAF is not *public* and doesnt really equate to a public response seeing as how hes merely banned from GAF... just GAF.

Unlike Dyack this is as public a platform as EviLore has.

And go ahead and keep on pretending the official thread doesn't exist.

 

[Miniboss1232]

Lets see, my idea that GAF is hiveminded reflects on the fact that evilore lowers himself and the forum to Dyacks level, and GAFfers elevate him to the status of "God".

Which is just as fucking retarded as thinking Dyack is a God...

@ bold ~ No. Just no, look at this thread, look at the number of people defending GAF as this last bastion of forum hope on the internet, yet with each thread like this we step one rung lower closer to other forums.

@ underline ~ :lol The place you just described does not exist, sorry.

I'm pretty sure you're the one doing the "elevating". Evilore put a stop to this crying that's been going on for two years now, and many on GAF are pleased. Simple as that. I believe you're the one that's making too much out of this.

By the way, the situation on NeoGAF with Dyack will have no effect on the sales of Too Human. A niche is a niche is a niche.

 

[timetokill]

That's your problem right there. If you don't see why I'm calling it like it is, I encourage you to check the threads.

I think the burden of proof is on you. I read those threads and maybe I'm not remembering well, but I don't remember people saying "the game is shit." I DO remember "this game looks like shit," which is a very different sentiment.

 

[Meier]

It's deserved but I do feel kind of bad for the guy in some regards. But you know what, his game is going to sell a fucking shitload of copies and he'll make a lot of money off of it. A lot more than most of us will ever see... so any pity I feel for him is misplaced.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Hey where the hell is Ark-AMN? That guy was the biggest Silicon Knights fanboy of all time.

 

[Joates]

Gaf used to be quite good 3 years ago, it had the same quick wit/gifs but had many devs and insiders talking games with regular folk who were also knowledgeable and wanted to do the same. Now everyone either wants to be the funny guy and the gaming discussion seems to be a love fest or a hate fest with little to no intelligent back and forth. As someone mentioned already, it's worth coming here because the Gaf ninjas get and post the news first and some of the funny is still just that, but the hate and the Gaf=Gaming mentality gets far too overbearing to stay very long.

Im quoting this for it is the truth.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Doug, I'm touched that you still think about me, ever after all these years! It's funny, but we mentioned you while recording Retronauts yesterday. It's kismet -- as though we're cosmically connected, somehow.

you fuck with a modern classic, you fuck with me! also i am andrew vestal

 

[frankthurk]

Of course, but if trolling Resistance 2 was commonplace for nearly 2 years on this forum, JStevenson could have perhaps reacted differently.

There would never have been an R2 For or Against thread. Period.