On the highest difficulties the games actually are all like this. A small group of peons can run up and kill you instantly if you aren't careful. Also, enemies will juggle you to death while said peons poke and shoot away at you.
Are they unlocked from the start in the newer titles? I don't HATE DW and I wouldn't mind giving the games another go, but Im not going to to play through several times to get to a game that I'd find fun playing. One musou game I did love was genji days of blade. It seemed a lot more difficult than DW for me, although it had other problems.
Dynasty Warriors isn't DMC though. It's not trying to be. People shouldn't be going into a DW title looking for a DMC experience. It's just not going to happen. Maybe Sengoku Basara, but that's because it's made by the same team that makes DMC (REAL DMC, not that DmC garbage...but that's for another thread).
For the record, I don't think anyone is trying to say Dynasty Warriors is some masterwork series where every moment is a life or death struggle. This shit isn't Ninja Gaiden on Master Ninja mode, it's not THAT hard, but it's certainly difficult and you will need to master the gameplay systems at work in order to succeed on higher difficulties. You get out what you put into them. They have their flaws, but the inherant notion that 'oh you kill hundreds of guys, MUST BE BAD' is fucking stupid.
Are you even reading my post? Did I say the games were bad? Dude, you're getting way too emotional. I simply stated what I didn't like. Get over it, its called an opinion. Anywho...
Thanks and trust me, I do see "how" they can be appealing to the audience that is being catered and I have zero qualms with that. To each its own, ya know?
Are they unlocked from the start in the newer titles? I don't HATE DW and I wouldn't mind giving the games another go, but Im not going to to play through several times to get to a game that I'd find fun playing. One musou game I did love was genji days of blade. It seemed a lot more difficult than DW for me, although it had other problems.
Yeah, higher difficulties are generally unlocked from the start. However, going in on Chaos difficulty with a Lv. 1 character is pretty much suicide. :lol You have to play at least a bit on lesser difficulties to avoid getting obliterated on the higher ones.
Thanks and trust me, I do see "how" they can be appealing to the audience that is being catered and I have zero qualms with that. To each its own, ya know?
I highly recommend anyone read the source material, it's engaging and it makes the games easy to follow. Long, but so what. I read it over the course of a year back in high school and felt much more informed because of it.
This.
And like a previous poster said, the games are whole different beasts on the harder difficulties. I've only played Gundam musou 2 and 3, but I'd like to buy Warriors Orochi 3 as well. It's hard as hell to find here though.
Why I don't like about them is the 'feel'. Movement feels weird. The weight behind hitting and getting hit feels weird. Camera feels weird.
And a question that's never really addressed anywhere. Is there an ongoing narrative from game 1- w/e it's on now? Is it remotely tied to anything to the original source material?
The Musou games tend to reboot the story's timeline from game to game, but they don't just tell the same story over and over either. Different games can cover the same historical events but in a completely different light because of new characters giving them more they can do with the plot.
The exception to this is the Orochi series, where it tells an ongoing story of Orochi merging together the Chinese Three Kingdoms Era / Characters with the Japanese Sengoku Era / Characters. The first game tells of this happening and their efforts to beat him. The second game involves a group trying to resurect Orochi. The third game takes place after 2 and has an 8 headed hydra appear and basically wreck everything a few years after the second game's ending.
Capcom's BASARA series is set up in a narrative structure where the story of game 2 (1 was mostly devoid of story) is focused on Nobunaga's rise and fall as well as Toyotomi's rise. SB3 picks up with Toyotomi's death and the results of which, that carry over to the battle of Sekigahara. The SB series is different from your typical Musou games however as they have the same basic idea of you vs tons of enemies, but they are structured more like classic beat em up stage design (they ARE Capcom games after all) where you go from the start to the end plowing through enemies and all sorts of crazy stage traps and machines before fighting the big boss at the end. SB3 (Samurai Heroes in US/EU) and SB3 Utage have a more fluid combat engine and are flashier than the Musou games (Kobayashi Hiroyuki is the producer for both DMC4 and BASARA games so this shouldn't be a surprise).
Dynasty Warriors isn't DMC though. It's not trying to be. People shouldn't be going into a DW title looking for a DMC experience. It's just not going to happen. Maybe Sengoku Basara, but that's because it's made by the same team that makes DMC (REAL DMC, not that DmC garbage...but that's for another thread).
Your missing the point entirely. It's not about DMC. It's the fact that it is possible to have a game where you are the "one without equal" on the battlefield, but if you get swamped by the lesser grunts you will die. Look how many times player had to devil trigger and use streak to surivive. Every grunt was attacking, sometimes several at once. It was almost unfair.
I'd like to see a DW that looks at that, tones it down a bit slightly and adds a robust blocking parry and dodge system. You'd still be kick ass and taking names, but it would feel more challenging and way less repetitive.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/7119005901/?tag=neogaf0e-20
The paperback box set of that is the version I have, looks like the cheapest of the Roberts translation on amazon. The rest are insanely expensive wtf. Anyway, yeah that version was fine and the price isn't too bad considering it's 4 volumes and like over 2000 pages.
Your missing the point entirely. It's not about DMC. It's the fact that it is possible to have a game where you are the "one without equal" on the battlefield, but if you get swamped by the lesser grunts you will die. Look how many times player had to devil trigger and use streak to surivive. Every grunt was attacking, sometimes several at once. It was almost unfair.
I'd like to see a DW that looks at that, tones it down a bit slightly and adds a robust blocking parry and dodge system. You'd still be kick ass and taking names, but it would feel more challenging and way less repetitive.
You just described every modern DW game on Hard/Chaos difficulty. I have literally gone from full health to dead with a Lv. 80 character in a matter of 2-3 seconds on Chaos difficulty.
I don't disagree that a more robust parry/dodge system would be a welcome addition, though. I'm not trying to argue that the DW series is perfect here, after all. :lol
http://www.amazon.com/dp/7119005901/?tag=neogaf0e-20
The paperback box set of that is the version I have, looks like the cheapest of the Roberts translation on amazon. The rest are insanely expensive wtf. Anyway, yeah that version was fine and the price isn't too bad considering it's 4 volumes and like over 2000 pages.
You just described every modern DW game on Hard/Chaos difficulty. I have literally gone from full health to dead with a Lv. 80 character in a matter of 2-3 seconds on Chaos difficulty.
For me Dynasty Warriors has always just been too repetitive, it's as simple as that. The scale of DW2 impressed me on PS2 back in the day, but I got over it pretty quick. I don't hate the games at all, they're just not my thing.
Yes, I didn't think SW3 was too easy or anything, it just felt boring. It was easy to get stunlocked and die in higher difficulties and that Castle whatever mode was the worst offender with its stupid traps in the later levels... It was a shame the online co-op was only available in that mode considering how well it worked that one time I tried it, otherwise I might have played it more.
I highly recommend anyone read the source material, it's engaging and it makes the games easy to follow. Long, but so what. I read it over the course of a year back in high school and felt much more informed because of it.
I'm a huge fan of the Warriors games, Dynasty Warriors series mainly. I get why people say they're repetitive but they're fun so I don't care. I remember playing Destiny of an Emperor for the NES and gave Dynasty Warriors 2 a shot because of the source material. Been playing the DW series ever since.
Warriors Orochi 3. Just came out last month. It's a crossover between Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors in a more fantasy-inspired scenario. So you get 132 characters from DW, SW, some original characters, and guest characters from stuff like Ninja Gaiden and DOA. It's got a pretty good block/dodge system (not DMC level, but hey), stuff like jump cancels and the like that Adawg was talking about earlier, 70 stages + DLC still coming out, just lots of stuff. Check out some videos on YouTube and such if you need to.
Oh, and I should mention, it's PSN-only on the PS3, but got a disc release on the 360. So depending on which system(s) you own, keep that in mind.
EDIT: Though, reading Adawg's post below about DW7XL (which I haven't yet played)...that would be a good one, too. In fact, it might just be closer to what you're looking for. I still think WO3 is a good choice (and in my opinion, the best game in the series thus far), but DW7XL might be better for you.
Warriors Orochi 3. Just came out last month. It's a crossover between Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors in a more fantasy-inspired scenario. So you get 132 characters from DW, SW, some original characters, and guest characters from stuff like Ninja Gaiden and DOA. It's got a pretty good block/dodge system (not DMC level, but hey), stuff like jump cancels and the like that Adawg was talking about earlier, 70 stages + DLC still coming out, just lots of stuff. Check out some videos on YouTube and such if you need to.
Oh, and I should mention, it's PSN-only on the PS3, but got a disc release on the 360. So depending on which system(s) you own, keep that in mind.
Yes, I didn't think SW3 was too easy or anything, it just felt boring. It was easy to get stunlocked and die in higher difficulties and that Castle whatever mode was the worst offender with its stupid traps in the later levels... It was a shame the online co-op was only available in that mode considering how well it worked that one time I tried it.
Sadly SW3 is a classic example of 1 step forward 3 steps back. The Ultimate Musous added a nice bit of flash to the super attacks and the Spirit Dash added a lot for the depth of the combo system. However the game was 30 FPS and had an abysmal weapon system that made things worse. Due to the speed of the game itself, I felt like anything other than a Speed weapon was slow motion gaming. Thus, I always felt like I needed either a gimped weapon (speed being weaker than the other weapons) or gimped gameplay (strong weapons being too slow for smooth gameplay).
DW7XL. The healing system that game introduced of being able to syphon health from enemies you attack, once you get the proper title for your character, really makes Nightmare mode a back and forth battle even with completely maxed out characters. Also that video I linked before is from 7 so you can expect to be able to do stuff like that with the gameplay engine.
Hmm. maybe I should check out 7 XL. it's been a while, the main flaw with the series has been the lack of innovation/releasing the same product basically, never the basic concept. sounds challenging, I dig it.
Warriors Orochi 3. Just came out last month. It's a crossover between Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors in a more fantasy-inspired scenario. So you get 132 characters from DW, SW, some original characters, and guest characters from stuff like Ninja Gaiden and DOA. It's got a pretty good block/dodge system (not DMC level, but hey), stuff like jump cancels and the like that Adawg was talking about earlier, 70 stages + DLC still coming out, just lots of stuff. Check out some videos on YouTube and such if you need to.
Oh, and I should mention, it's PSN-only on the PS3, but got a disc release on the 360. So depending on which system(s) you own, keep that in mind.
I find 7XL and Orochi 3 to both be great games that deliver different gameplay experiences.
When I play the Orochi games a lot of the fun comes from the meshing of the gigantic roster of characters I enjoying playing with and getting to take 3 of them out there in a tag team. Plus, the stories are usually wacky fun (Demons, Gods, Time Travel, etc...) and there are tons of comedy in the various character interactions. Another aspect that is fun for me, as someone who loves customization options, is tinkering with weapon builds to find the perfect setup on all my favorite characters.
In the end however, the Chaos difficulty feels to me like "these guys can kill you super fast, so build broke as fuck weapons in order to kill them faster!" Whereas 7XL Nightmare mode felt more of a straight forward a back and forth struggle to survive.
I think Orochi 3 is the go-to for anyone who already knows they like this type of gameplay and watch the latest and greatest. While, DW7XL is a good gateway for someone who is interested in seeing how the games can be more than just running around button mashing. Hopefully someone else who has also played both can chime in and give their opinion.
The thing about this question and the responses I always see focuses on the combat, the perception (to each their own) of it being repetitive encounters, grunt difficulty, and so forth. All quite valid, and understandable to me. Yet Does anyone dislike it for other aspects?
-Unable to understand or care about the story? Be it about Chinese history, Japanese history, weird mix of historical figures fighting together, retelling of different cartoons like Gundam or First of the North Star, etc?
-Too many characters and so there is a sense of getting lost and not really sure on what to do early on except "mash buttons"? If people can feel "lost" without clear purpose and sense of growth in other games, I can imagine being true here as well with how much is offered.
- A lack of connection with the material it's tied to?
- The length of time it can take in some of the games to actually accomplish something? At least the length of time it can feel it takes, even if you are fine with the combat and types of encounters?
- A disinterest in the idea of finding "loot"? Is that even known? It's quite the draw for some I know to get every weapon or treasure or power, much in the same way of Diablo and other games.
- Couldn't care less about the idea of maxing out levels for everyone and everything? It's been RPG boosting for quite some time now, truly becoming "one without equal".
- Is it the fact "it's not you/your character" improving? This was an issue of mine until Samurai Warriors Chronicles came out, which gave me the ability to make my own character, choose a style to fight, and build him up and level up as I would like a RPG of old.
Gameplay is incredibly redundant, seeing only incremental changes over the last decade and over the course of dozens of games. Missions are repetitve with little to no variation, stories are paper thin with no motivation or drive or decent voice acting or any sorta tension to drive the narrative along at all. Graphically they're ugly to look at, and just...just...it's a Dynasty Warriors game.
I've tried, believe me, I've sought out and played the spin-offs that at least interest me on a franchise level. Like Hokuto No Ken and Legends: Warriors of Troy.
But that makes me hate Musou games even more, to see great subject material shackled to completely flat, uninteresting and teeth-grindingly bad gameplay.
This is spooky. My friend and I were just looking at these games, debating on picking up the latest. He was really into these during Ps2 era, I played one of them with him for a few hours, thats the extent of my knowledge.
I wasnt blown away by the game, but it seemed fun.
Looks like DW7 or WO3 is the reccomended jump in points, so I'll pick one of them up, and let you guys know whether I love it or hate it, I guess =p
If its anything like what I played ages ago, it's atleast going to be fun to play with others.
Yeah I think the lack of evolution of the series is the biggest issue. I do think a lot of people never gave the series a fair shake in the first place because of that though. The fact that the series hasn't changed drastically with each iteration should have no effect on a first time player, games are inherantly fun. I think that's what I take issue with most when people deride them. It's like it's the 'standard' to look down on the series, but it's due to the sameness, not like it's intrinsicly bad for people that haven't already burned out on it.
Gameplay is incredibly redundant, seeing only incremental changes over the last decade and over the course of dozens of games. Missions are repetitve with little to no variation, stories are paper thin with no motivation or drive or decent voice acting or any sorta tension to drive the narrative along at all. Graphically they're ugly to look at, and just...just...it's a Dynasty Warriors game.
I've tried, believe me, I've sought out and played the spin-offs that at least interest me on a franchise level. Like Hokuto No Ken and Legends: Warriors of Troy.
But that makes me hate Musou games even more, to see great subject material shackled to completely flat, uninteresting and teeth-grindingly bad gameplay.
Man, you probably picked the two worst games possible to try to "get into" the franchise. :lol I liked Hokuto well enough (Platinumed it, even), but I'd take just about any mainline DW game over it any day. And Legends of Troy...well, I'm pretty sure there was a thread just recently by someone who used to work for Koei Canada detailing all the issues the development of the game had (it was developed by Koei Canada, not Omega Force, as all other Musou games have been). It's just an awful, awful game. It even goes as far as the game's representative guest character in Warriors Orochi 3 (Achilles) being a terrible character even in a completely different game.
Though, your complaints about the story...DW is based on a historical novel (as I'm sure you're aware), so they really only have so much room to embellish for the sake of tension/dramatic effect.
And let me just say, as a fan, that I laughed harder at your TBFP of Fist of the North Star than possibly any other episode.
Really....this game has a reputation of being shallow and repetitive. It seems that a lot of people can't get over the initial perception of a button mashing game.....when this game can offer deep gameplay and customization.
I'd really like to see the person who's complaining about the lack of challenge to play the game on Chaos....
Man, you probably picked the two worst games possible to try to "get into" the franchise. :lol I liked Hokuto well enough (Platinumed it, even), but I'd take just about any mainline DW game over it any day. And Legends of Troy...well, I'm pretty sure there was a thread just recently by someone who used to work for Koei Canada detailing all the issues the development of the game had. It's just an awful, awful game. It even goes as far as the game's representative guest character in Warriors Orochi 3 (Achilles) being a terrible character even in a completely different game.
Though, your complaints about the story...DW is based on a historical novel (as I'm sure you're aware), so they really only have so much room to embellish for the sake of tension/dramatic effect.
And let me just say, as a fan, that I laughed harder at your TBFP of Fist of the North Star than possibly any other episode.
No, I mean to saw, I've played 1-2 older Dynasty Warriors titles years ago, disliked them greatly. And then in a last ditch attempt, tried Hokuto and Troy, and hated them even more.
Even there was a Berserk Musou game though, I'd still try it.
No, I mean to saw, I've played 1-2 older Dynasty Warriors titles years ago, disliked them greatly. And then in a last ditch attempt, tried Hokuto and Troy, and hated them even more.
Even there was a Berserk Musou game though, I'd still try it.
Well, all I can say is that if you ever get the urge to, you should try one of the newer ones. Orochi 3 or DW7/XL. They're much more representative of what the franchise is now than the older PS2 era titles or the spinoffs. I mean, you're right, Hokuto DOES control like a shopping cart. :lol
And dammit, now I'm gonna be depressed for a few days that Berserk Musou doesn't exist.
Hmm, lack of evolution. I wonder if I would feel that way if I played each game one by one instead of skipping two or three titles and not jumping tracks?
I didn't own a Warriors game until Dynasty Warriors 3 (only played those before with friends) and once I finished that I didn't pick up something new until Samurai Warriors three years later, and besides the change in location and characters, it was quite the different focus in both the field aspect and levelling up.
Jumping into the Gundam Warriors with it's connected story, friendship level between it's characters, and pilot powers and then part's for each Gundam robot having different aspects also added a lot for me that didn't allow me to see it as "lack of evolution".
Not saying they do change a lot, but I've felt they do enough between my long breaks. Then again I've felt FIFA or SNK/Capcom/SEGA/Namco fighters and other such things change enough as well and I do play them every year.
Now burning out I get. That I've made sure to avoid. You would have to be some kind of crazy man to be able to play 140 of the latest game after playing 100 plus hours of a previous Warriors game and still be ready for more. Some kind of crazy man indeed.
Now burning out I get. That I've made sure to avoid. You would have to be some kind of crazy man to be able to play 140 of the latest game after playing 100 plus hours of a previous Warriors game and still be ready for more. Some kind of crazy man indeed.
DW has always been my "guilty pleasure" series. It's like, a junk food game for me. I always feel like it's wrong to compare DW to DMC or Ninja Gaiden or something (completely disregarding that Ryu is in WO3) because it's always felt like more of a brawler to me. A massive, battlefield brawler. I see spiritual influences of Double Dragon, Streets of Rage, etc. in the Warriors games.
My complaints with DW games always comes from one or two flaws that go from game to game. Most recently for me was with Gundam 3...the units were great, and I really liked the systems, but the space levels were missing and the level design...phoned in doesn't begin to describe it. I did like their idea for zones that do stuff though, and their implementation of the Gundam Vs. system of having respawns. I also hated the musou mode in 4, and the cut down roster of 6. Oh, and the weapon system in 7, while cool originally, felt really stale before you got through half the levels in what passed for "free mode". WO3 definitely feels like a step in the right direction though. I'm still sad there's no gundams in it though, because after a certain point you gotta say "well we got everything else in here, why NOT?"
Hmm, lack of evolution. I wonder if I would feel that way if I played each game one by one instead of skipping two or three titles and not jumping tracks?
I didn't own a Warriors game until Dynasty Warriors 3 (only played those before with friends) and once I finished that I didn't pick up something new until Samurai Warriors three years later, and besides the change in location and characters, it was quite the different focus in both the field aspect and levelling up.
Jumping into the Gundam Warriors with it's connected story, friendship level between it's characters, and pilot powers and then part's for each Gundam robot having different aspects also added a lot for me that didn't allow me to see it as "lack of evolution".
Not saying they do change a lot, but I've felt the way some do just as I haven't with FIFA or SNK/Capcom/SEGA/Namco fighters and those I do play every year.
Now burning out I get. That I've made sure to avoid. You would have to be some kind of crazy man to be able to play 140 of the latest game after playing 100 plus hours of a previous Warriors game and still be ready for more. Some kind of crazy man indeed.
I don't remember which dynasty warriors game I played. It was on the PS2. But I hated it because the gameplay felt completely and utterly mindless. There was no thought behind the combat at all.
It was barely more fun with a friend, but I could never see myself playing it alone.
Because they're the same games every time. I was hooked for a while but I finally just said why am I spending $30+ to play the same thing every time and I stopped. It did get me into the books and the history though, which was pretty cool admittedly.
For the record I played everything including the expansions (xtreme legends, empires) from 3 to 6 and I played the first samurai warriors and the first 2 orochi games. They're all pretty much the same.
DW has always been my "guilty pleasure" series. It's like, a junk food game for me. I always feel like it's wrong to compare DW to DMC or Ninja Gaiden or something (completely disregarding that Ryu is in WO3) because it's always felt like more of a brawler to me. A massive, battlefield brawler. I see spiritual influences of Double Dragon, Streets of Rage, etc. in the Warriors games.
See now, this is a perfectly valid reason to not like the series. Yes, there's a LOT of grinding to be done in Musou games. And you've kinda gotta be the type of person who doesn't mind such a thing to really be able to get into the series. If you don't have the patience for grinding, then Dynasty Warriors isn't for you, and that's totally understandable.
Yes.....i really hope they can fix the pop in issue. It nds been a staple since the inception of DW2. Lol.
Fans who love the game will overlook this minor flaw...just so they can continue enjoying the game. But of course...it'll be find better if they fixed the issue.
Pop-in mooks in Chaos mode is extremely deadly. Gotta play very carefully...
DLC for 7 is one case where I actually applaud the company for their efforts. It's been a year since the game came out and they are still churning out new (originally designed) outfits, new weapons, and new stages. They had actually stopped with DLC at first, but all the people clamoring for more and buying whatever new stuff they released lead to them supporting the game for 15 or so months before releasing their final DLC pack.
Aerobiz
P.T.O.: Pacific Theater of Operations
P.T.O. II: Pacific Theater of Operations
Uncharted Waters
Rise of the Phoenix
Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Nobunaga's Ambition series
Liberty or Death
Genghis Khan
Bandit Kings of Ancient China
Gemfire - Medieval fantasy
Inindo: Way of the Ninja
Sangokushi Eiketsuden, Sangokushi Koumeiden, Sangokushi Sousouden
Sure not all the game on that list is good, but man, they covered a lot of interesting niches. Romance of the 3 Kingdoms 11 was what... 2004 game? It's only now that we're getting 12.
Oh more thing, Dynasty Warrior art sucks and they're making their way into the ROTK games. I might have been able to stomach DW if I was actually playing as a person that in some ways resembled Dian Wei, Zhou Tai, or Wei Yan. But no, I'm playing as a weird bald guy with an axe, a fucking ninja, and a masked... tribal wildman?
