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Easy Allies |EZOT2| Love & Respect

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E

Elfforkusu

Member
Finally listening to the podcast...

Kinda had to tune out the "does graphical power matter" discussion mid through. Love the allies, but this really isn't their strong suit.


The only way the Switch could be more powerful with its form factor is if they'd used a custom (or stock, but why stop there?) Tegra X2 (on 16nm), which would've helped give a solid % performance per watt boost, but (1) the console would cost significantly more, (2) there would probably still be frame drops in Zelda -- because there's nothing about using the Tegra X1 that necessitates Zelda having frame drops, it's essentially just a botched optimization (either in the software or in the hardware wrt keeping temps under control in dock mode -- haven't seen anything conclusive that pinpoints the problem). If #2 seems hard to believe, just ask yourself how the portable version runs better with half the FLOPs.

It's not that Nintendo cheaped out (well, they did a little -- by using a stock X1), the reason the Switch isn't a powerhouse is just physics. This is obviously a change from the Wii and Wii U, they had no such excuse then.
 
M

mishakoz

Member
Elfforkusu said:
Finally listening to the podcast...

Kinda had to tune out the "does graphical power matter" discussion mid through. Love the allies, but this really isn't their strong suit.


The only way the Switch could be more powerful with its form factor is if they'd used a custom (or stock, but why stop there?) Tegra X2 (on 16nm), which would've helped give a solid % performance per watt boost, but (1) the console would cost significantly more, (2) there would probably still be frame drops in Zelda -- because there's nothing about using the Tegra X1 that necessitates Zelda having frame drops, it's essentially just a botched optimization (either in the software or in the hardware wrt keeping temps under control in dock mode -- haven't seen anything conclusive that pinpoints the problem). If #2 seems hard to believe, just ask yourself how the portable version runs better with half the FLOPs.

It's not that Nintendo cheaped out (well, they did a little -- by using a stock X1), the reason the Switch isn't a powerhouse is just physics. This is obviously a change from the Wii and Wii U, they had no such excuse then.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is arguing Ninty is skimping on power with the switch, its damn powerful for a portable. The trade off comes with making it a portable in the first place, and thus, making it the 3rd underpowered console (in terms of the market competitors) in a row.

So, if it wasn't a portable would we have a Zelda that wasn't framey or at least would be 1080p? Yes, absolutely.

Edit: and if it has to be a portable, I'd argue they cheaped out on the dock by not adding additional... Well, something to make games run better when outputted at higher resolutions.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
mishakoz said:
I don't think anyone is arguing Ninty is skimping on power with the switch, its damn powerful for a portable. The trade off comes with making it a portable in the first place, and thus, making it the 3rd underpowered console (in terms of the market competitors) in a row.

So, if it wasn't a portable would we have a Zelda that wasn't framey or at least would be 1080p? Yes, absolutely.
Click to expand...
I don't understand the certainty bolded here. They got it running pretty well in handheld mode at 720p. They botched it in docked mode at 900p. Perhaps there exists a class of hardware that can run code flawlessly with no optimizations, but I'm unaware of it. The reason Zelda is framey isn't a function of the Switch's FLOPs, just that they missed the mark. (still not clear to me why there isn't a 720p option when docked...)

In regards to the first part, that gets into an entirely separate business discussion (which I happen to think Nintendo made the right decision with, play to your strengths). But I think the short version is, you can make the case that the Switch's market competition isn't PS4 and XB1 at all, it's the 3DS and the tablet market.

e: Where Zelda (etc) would look assuredly better on a more powerful Switch would be texture quality, draw distance, AA, that sort of thing.
 
P

Primethius

Banned
Finally watched all of the 12 hours stream.

That was fantastic! Amazing stuff all around. Loved all the guests too, most who I hadn't really seen before but they were all great. Now to go watch the concert.
 
M

mishakoz

Member
Elfforkusu said:
I don't understand the certainty bolded here. They got it running pretty well in handheld mode at 720p. They botched it in docked mode at 900p. Perhaps there exists a class of hardware that can run code flawlessly with no optimizations, but I'm unaware of it. The reason Zelda is framey isn't a function of the Switch's FLOPs, just that they missed the mark. (still not clear to me why there isn't a 720p option when docked...)

In regards to the first part, that gets into an entirely separate business discussion (which I happen to think Nintendo made the right decision with, play to your strengths). But I think the short version is, you can make the case that the Switch's market competition isn't PS4 and XB1 at all, it's the 3DS and the tablet market.

e: Where Zelda (etc) would look assuredly better on a more powerful Switch would be texture quality, draw distance, AA, that sort of thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we aren't sure it's framey, maybe the devs just didn't get the optimization right on a new console. That could be true. However I'd argue that if they had a bit more power on their side, optimization would be easier. Im not sure, I wasn't there.

Like it or not, it is competing with the PS4 and Xbox one. It's the Wii U successor just as much as it was a 3ds successor. You can make the case that it isn't in that market, but seeing as Nintendo is discontinuing the Wii U and not the 3DS, I don't think it's a fair case to make.

Most of us just want a Zelda that doesn't have to compromise to be on a underpowered console. We want Zelda to look as good as the gameplay is, and I can't shake the feeling that TP, skyward Sword and breath of the wild, while they look good due to the art style, probably don't look as good as they could have.

Just my two cents.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
mishakoz said:
Yeah, we aren't sure it's framey, maybe the devs just didn't get the optimization right on a new console. That could be true. However I'd argue that if they had a bit more power on their side, optimization would be easier. Im not sure, I wasn't there.

Like it or not, it is competing with the PS4 and Xbox one. It's the Wii U successor just as much as it was a 3ds successor. You can make the case that it isn't in that market, but seeing as Nintendo is discontinuing the Wii U and not the 3DS, I don't think it's a fair case to make.

Most of us just want a Zelda that doesn't have to compromise to be on a underpowered console. We want Zelda to look as good as the gameplay is, and I can't shake the feeling that TP, skyward Sword and breath of the wild, while they look good due to the art style, probably don't look as good as they could have.

Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
(yet)

I understand the desire that Nintendo games should look better -- it still burns me that the Mario Galaxy games aren't available in HD except via emulator -- but the Switch is a tablet with a sweet TV output mode. Sooner or later, it will replace the 3DS, because it's both a portable platform and a home platform. Nintendo has more or left proved to themselves and the world that they can't fully support two systems over the last two gens, they needed to unify their platforms.

It'll be interesting to see what they do for the first hardware refresh, IMO. Could go in any direction.
 
L

LiquidSolid

Member
Elfforkusu said:
Finally listening to the podcast...

Kinda had to tune out the "does graphical power matter" discussion mid through. Love the allies, but this really isn't their strong suit.


The only way the Switch could be more powerful with its form factor is if they'd used a custom (or stock, but why stop there?) Tegra X2 (on 16nm), which would've helped give a solid % performance per watt boost, but (1) the console would cost significantly more, (2) there would probably still be frame drops in Zelda -- because there's nothing about using the Tegra X1 that necessitates Zelda having frame drops, it's essentially just a botched optimization (either in the software or in the hardware wrt keeping temps under control in dock mode -- haven't seen anything conclusive that pinpoints the problem). If #2 seems hard to believe, just ask yourself how the portable version runs better with half the FLOPs.

It's not that Nintendo cheaped out (well, they did a little -- by using a stock X1), the reason the Switch isn't a powerhouse is just physics. This is obviously a change from the Wii and Wii U, they had no such excuse then.
Click to expand...

While I mostly agree, didn't Nintendo downclock the Switch's Tegra X1 to help conserve battery life?
 
B

Burt

Member
Watching Easy Update (fun stuff), I just realized that I have absolutely no idea what the story in Mass Effect: Andromeda is about. I know you're ZE PATHFINDER and you're going to a new galaxy, and there's maybe a piece of glowy ancient alien technology, but... that's it. It hit me when Ian and Kyle had to
pick the gender for the canon Shepherd
in their game and I was just like "...what?"

Am I wrong to think that's really weird, to know nothing about a AAA game like Mass Effect's story beforehand?
 
P

Primethius

Banned
Nasbin said:
Oh my god Nier ...........

oh my god Nier

oh my god NIER

Video games are the best you guys
Click to expand...

I really need to go back to Nier. I hit route B and really disliked it. People love the other routes so I'm going to try and power through B tomorrow to get to the good stuff again.
 
B

Burt

Member
The amount of... I dunno, subjects that continue to be relevant from the FFVII full playthrough part 1 video is kind of crazy.

"We should have an anime podcast, that'd be fun."

"No one would watch it. Haha!"

"...Yeah that's true, no one would watch it."

"Dude imagine telling Blood, 'Hey, we wanna make an anime podcast' "

"Hey Blood, we want to- ...hahahahahah"

Also included, off the top of my head, 'Souls retrospective is coming soon!', Persona 5 review talk, FFXII HD hopes, and, of course, lots FFVII remake speculation.

A lot of it makes sense, because some of the things they're talking about have just taken years to come out, but it still does add a really interesting time capsule-ish aspect to an already awesome set of streams. If anyone's looking for something to have on in the background as they do work, I highly recommend it.

showgirls?
 
T

TheDarkKnight774

Member
Ian's new camera is really good

The Ian and Kyle segment of course was really fun. But man unless they create some pc graphic mods or something I can't see myself ever playing that game. I'm far from a graphics snob. I can go back to older games on PSOne, n64, etc and love them. But I just find the faces/eyes in ME:A so distracting and disturbing. I can't focus on anything else when I see the game.

Also Jolly park meetup. It's interesting to put faces to names I see from chat or whatnot.
 
S

Servbot24

Banned
TheDarkKnight774 said:
Ian's new camera is really good

The Ian and Kyle segment of course was really fun. But man unless they create some pc graphic mods or something I can't see myself ever playing that game. I'm far from a graphics snob. I can go back to older games on PSOne, n64, etc and love them. But I just find the faces/eyes in ME:A so distracting and disturbing. I can't focus on anything else when I see the game.
Click to expand...

Yeah... in some games it doesn't matter (Dark Souls doesn't look any better), but the whole point of Mass Effect from what I understand is getting into the characters.
 
L

LiquidSolid

Member
TheDarkKnight774 said:
One dropped out yesterday
Click to expand...

Ah, that explains it, I can never remember how many slots they have. Hopefully that slot's taken sometime in the next week.

Servbot24 said:
Yeah... in some games it doesn't matter (Dark Souls doesn't look any better), but the whole point of Mass Effect from what I understand is getting into the characters.
Click to expand...

Eh, I've played Bethesda games before, so I can ignore fugly characters, what concerns me far more is that Bioware's strengths, the characters and dialogue, seem completely forgettable in Andromeda. Take those out of their old games and I think they would've been received just as poorly.

I'm still curious enough that I want to play it eventually though. But then again, I still haven't gotten around to playing Blood & Wine and I loved Witcher 3, so "eventually" may not be for like 5 years.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
LiquidSolid said:
While I mostly agree, didn't Nintendo downclock the Switch's Tegra X1 to help conserve battery life?
Click to expand...
Conserve battery life + to keep it from setting your hands on fire.

Downclocking was probably a part of the equation no matter what they used for the cpu/gpu. Gotta hit the right TDP. IMO tegra X1 was a damn good choice for what they needed (lower power consumption on 16nm would've been nice...)
 
H

Hippolnareff

Member
Huber: "This is from a time when female wrestlers were just treated as Divas."
Bosman: "Well, let us treat out female wrestler with respect."

5 minutes later...

WSunV0X.png
 
F

farisr

Member
Alright, I'm gonna be taking a break for a little while (a week or so). The videos for both week 12 and 13 should be up sometime next week.
 
P

Philippo

Member
farisr said:
Alright, I'm gonna be taking a break for a little while (a week or so). The videos for both week 12 and 13 should be up sometime next week.
Click to expand...

Get some rest dude! You are almost working as a hired marketing guy for EZA lol

That said, are you going to cover the 12hrs livestream?
 
S

sleepwalkcapsules

Member
farisr said:
Alright, I'm gonna be taking a break for a little while (a week or so). The videos for both week 12 and 13 should be up sometime next week.
Click to expand...

Going forwards, don't you think that in order to keep doing this you need some help?

Would organize a thread in the EZA forum for people to suggest (and maybe have a vote) the best moments (with timestamps) help?

That was my idea a while ago of how a official best of video could work with the fans help.
 
F

farisr

Member
sleepwalkcapsules said:
Going forwards, don't you think that in order to keep doing this you need some help?

Would organize a thread in the EZA forum for people to suggest (and maybe have a vote) the best moments (with timestamps) help?

That was my idea a while ago of how a official best of video could work with the fans help.
Click to expand...
Generally a week's videos (best of+round two) take me around 12 hours of sifting+editing, not including the time it takes to watch the stuff I normally watch. That spread out over a week makes it doable for me. I also make sure to look though every comment in this thread and check out every single twitch clip made for the week, just in case I missed something.

A thread could potentially help point me towards more subtle/subdued moments that can be missed while sifting through videos.
 
T

TheDarkKnight774

Member
Napalm_Frank said:
Currently playing Symphony of the Night for the first time. Don't let me down Ian. So far it's pretty gud.
Click to expand...
Do you know about the twist in the game? I don't want to spoil it but I didn't know about it when I first rented it when it came out. Years later I learned about it and changed my opinion of the game tenfold.
 
N

Napalm_Frank

Member
TheDarkKnight774 said:
Do you know about the twist in the game? I don't want to spoil it but I didn't know about it when I first rented it when it came out. Years later I learned about it and changed my opinion of the game tenfold.
Click to expand...

If you mean the
inverted castle
then yes, I think everyone knows about it. It's one of the most talked about ''twists'' in gaming. Even the allies have mentioned it multiple times in the past.
 
P

Primethius

Banned
farisr said:
Generally a week's videos (best of+round two) take me around 12 hours of sifting+editing, not including the time it takes to watch the stuff I normally watch. That spread out over a week makes it doable for me. I also make sure to look though every comment in this thread and check out every single twitch clip made for the week, just in case I missed something.

A thread could potentially help point me towards more subtle/subdued moments that can be missed while sifting through videos.
Click to expand...

Just to make sure, if I want to watch your Best of vids in order, I start with the JuleSkum one right?
 
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