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Electric Car Sales Are Surging, IEA Reports
- Thread starter ShadowSwordmaster
- Start date
trudderham
Member
Same. It's at least a year away for us UK-folk :/
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Nah, most people don't go 150 miles+ everyday for work.
Time for a coal powered car.
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
I drove my Bolt EV on a 190 mile round trip this past Saturday. Car said I had 61 miles left when I plugged it in. It's not just for commuting.
That said, I wouldn't take it on a trip beyond its range. Having to stop for an hour or so every 200 miles is not conducive to getting there in a reasonable amount of time. Even with a Tesla it's about 30 minutes for 170 miles of range at a SuperCharger station, so you still need to plan for long trips differently than you would a gas car.
Jezbollah
Member
"Registered plug-in and battery-powered vehicles on roads worldwide rose 60 percent from the year before,"
Many of the electric vehicles in China are probably powered through electricity produced via coal plants.
Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
Possibly, but that's not for... 15 years? My old truck has just under 400k miles on it, rarely breaks, and does what I need it to. Until the little bit of driving I do outweighs the payments and much higher insurance costs it's more economical for me to keep driving it.
What if I don't want to buy a Tesla? Their chargers are proprietary and incompatible with other cars.
Warm Machine
Member
I'd like to see if I could makes Vancouver to Kelowna on a single Bolt charge. It's a four hour almost 400km drive by a mountain road so lots of heavy battery use for climbing but also a lot of foot off the pedal downward travel.
Having two kids a four hour drive requires one 30-60 minute stop. At worst I'd drive to the halfway point and charge in Merrit. It would be unlikely that I'd go farther than that as the two year old would get uncomfortable.
Having two kids a four hour drive requires one 30-60 minute stop. At worst I'd drive to the halfway point and charge in Merrit. It would be unlikely that I'd go farther than that as the two year old would get uncomfortable.
i think most of those chinese ev's were almost cheat vehicles that barely passed those regulations for no taxes in china.... they made the rules stricter so they cant pass anymore and sales went down.
But still, there are more and more evs for sure... and more they are, it will be easier to charge, buy and repair them.
Crucial thing right now is government support worldwide, which is how sales go up. Government has to subsidize the cost of getting one, and where they do that, sales flourish.
Manufacturers right now are losing money as they have to discount evs more than regular vehicles... except for Tesla which is a status symbol and desirable vehicle, but even they dont make money.
So hopefully that changes soon and there is EU wide directive for no tax on EVs and subsidized charging stations... that will certainly increase their popularity in the next 10 years or so.
Going on month 3 with my Volt and this is still one of my best purchases ever. I bought it used for 12 which saved me on the huge depreciation drop the initial buy dealt with and I've still spent less than $100 in gas in this thing. It does change driving habits a bit, but most of my driving is here in town and even the couple times I had to go the distance, the gas consumption is really low.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
The Tesla is a luxury car. An affordable (and apparantly the most successful E car) car like the Nissan Leaf reaches 120 miles at best. A Renault Zoe reaches 150 miles. And even those cars are more expensive in use than fuel engine cars when you calculate in the cost to rent the battery. As of today driving an E car is $500 to $1000 more expensive than a regular car (depending on your yearly mileage, starting at 15k miles a year). And the higher cost of the car comes on top. Economically E cars of today make no sense. Ecologically they do (unless your electricity comes from coal plants).
Link sends me to a long term s7 review. Rs7 has totally different stuff in it. I googled long term rs7 review and didn't find much idk if anyone did one. I did find anecdotal reviews on forums before I bought it and most people raved about the reliability.
Motor trend has a hard on for Tesla! That being said the tesla is a nice car. I did look into them and test drive it. However with a tune the rs7 would beat the tesla in that heads up comparison handily. Stage 2 tune would put a beat down severely but that wouldn't be fair because stage 2 requires hardware upgrades like down pipes.
ShadowKingpin
Member
My credit is too shot to get a new car, but when I can get one, I am going for an electric. Out of curiosity, do electric cars last longer than gas vehicles? What about maintenance and repairs?
I'm not familiar enough about what type of "cheating" you are referring to.
My comment was about the fact that something like 70% of electricity in China is generated from coal plants, so the factory that produced the Chinese electric car and the power plant that produces the electricity for car owners to charge their vehicles are often likely to be coal plants: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.COAL.ZS?locations=CN&name_desc=false
Denmark removed incentives and people stopped buying completely yikes.
Astral/H3X
Member
The only thing holding me off on an electric vehicle is that I have 75 miles of commute each day (36 mi each way), and a standard wall outlet wouldn't be able to charge the vehicle enough to make that daily. Otherwise, I'd be very close to getting an electric vehicle.
My apartment won't let install/let me install a FEMA or whatever power outlet that would make it work for me.
My apartment won't let install/let me install a FEMA or whatever power outlet that would make it work for me.
Frankfurter
Member
The only thing holding me off on an electric vehicle is that I have 75 miles of commute each day (36 mi each way), and a standard wall outlet wouldn't be able to charge the vehicle enough to make that daily. Otherwise, I'd be very close to getting an electric vehicle.
My apartment won't let install/let me install a FEMA or whatever power outlet that would make it work for me.
Should work out quite easily, shouldn't it? 75 miles should be like ~20kWh, while a regular wall outlet goes up to ~3Kw (230V, 16A).
Fakeedit: Oh wait, US is only ~110V. Well, that's an issue I guess.
titiklabingapat
Member
It made more economic sense for me to drive a new Fiat 500e than my old beater Toyota Camry. I'm actually saving money because the lease is so low and my gas/maintenance charge is literally less than $20 a month. I also got $2500 from the state.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
Do these even offset carbon emmisons? Factor in the manufacturing process, distribution and charging does it even cut back much when you look at the whole picture?
djSyndrome
Member
The $7500 US tax credit may not live much longer.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Depends on the car and your local electricity/gas cost. In Germany you pay around 5 Euro for 100 km by e car, 7 Euro for a similarly sized fossil fuel car. The e car costs 10.000 more to buy.
So after 500.000 km the e car is cheaper. But then you have to replace the battery, which is another 10k. Or you rent it for 80 a month, then you have to drive 4000 km a month and the e car is better.
MiddeSummer
Banned
I wonder if that report included EREV hybrids. I bought a '16 Chevy Volt and not having to worry about range anxiety has been great. I'm not entirely sure I want to buy a fully-electric EV in the near future, haha. I can't drive my whole commute (>70 miles) on a charge alone at the moment but will be able to when I move. I wonder if it would be detrimental to push more EREVs than EVs for those consumers that are plagued with range anxiety.
But honestly, having to fill the tank every two weeks instead of every 5 days is hella rad. And it costs about $45/mo to keep the car charged.
But honestly, having to fill the tank every two weeks instead of every 5 days is hella rad. And it costs about $45/mo to keep the car charged.
I'm very curious how this plays out. I probably won't be able to justify a new car before the credits run out.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Some companies here in the US have lease deals that cover the cost of one battery replacement and also reimburse the cost of charging. The state of California also gives owners a $2,500 check for buying one. I'm looking at a deal right now where I would put down $2,000 for an EV and get back $2,500. So I'd essentially be paid $500 for acquiring it. After that, the monthly payment is barely higher than what the average car owner would spend on gas alone. How does that not make economic sense?
Damn...that's still pretty small.
I'm totally on board the e-vehicle train, but shit really needs to do better.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
People will have to get EVs in the future because more car companies are going to build EVs. It takes time for this to get the ball rolling.
titiklabingapat
Member
And no gas or very minimal electric costs. You actually end up saving money if you go electric in California. This is the reason I got mine. My transport costs actually went down by about 30% and I got a newer car out of it. I save even more money if you factor in maintenance costs because my old Toyota was starting to break apart.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Something like a 1/3 of my company drives electric or hybrids.
Of course, our company offers incentives for employees to do so, and has charging stations in our lot.
Of course, our company offers incentives for employees to do so, and has charging stations in our lot.
Jezbollah
Member
The moment electric cells become more practical and economical than fossil then there will be progress. But its more than battery tech - the infrastructure needs to be in there.
There are 66 Tesla Superchargers in the whole of the UK.
Fox Mulder
Member
Gas is never expensive long enough to make these more practical for people. Who cares when I can still get $2 a gallon gas.
Warm Machine
Member
Everyone is upset about the US backing out of Paris Accord but gas is cheap so lets burn that. I get it though, I really get it, it is just disappointing how short sighted the mentality is.
In so far as the infrastructure, you'd be surprised how many chargers there actually are.
https://www.plugshare.com/
I would pretty much expect it to be gone after musk left Trump's economic cabinet, dude loves revenge and being able to hurt Tesla for "disloyalty" is right up his alley.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It's more than gas. There are more parts that can break down and fail in a gas engine car. Maintenance costs are lower and that is also reflected in the resale value. As battery tech gets better gas will make less and less sense.
djSyndrome
Member
And yet the Prius, which has both a gas engine and an electric motor, is consistently one of the most reliable cars for sale.
milanbaros
Member?
That isn't Tesla, it's a consortium of car manufacturers. The next Tesla one is meant to be much faster than 350.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
cmon that is not common for the UK.
Quick question for those in the USA/Canada and talking about 110v plugs, aren't there chargers in the USA that take advantage of the 3-phase system that I assume gets delivered to every house?
Assuming that ofc the car companies keep making them, an electric vehicle will be significantly more reliable than a normal petrol vehicle, this excludes the specifics of any single vehicle.
An electric motor is simpler than a combustion engine by many orders of magnitude, it also suffers significantly less stress, a benefit which also extends to other parts of the car since an electric motor by comparison will barely vibrate.
The gearbox is also many times simpler and lighter due to the ability of electric engines to modulate power by changing the frequency.
Being able to put electric motors directly on the drive axles should also make it all around simpler especially for AWD vehicles.
There might be other benefits to maintenance like a more heavenly distributed weight to the car, but the ones above really are the big ticket items.
Electric vehicles will come with other big benefits though, like far more ample room for luggage or cockpit space.
Far better safety due to a lack of a big metal blocks in front/rear of the car, although this benefit will be less significant by the time electric cars become a huge part in the world transportation due to the future prevalence of self driving cars.
Much quicker acceleration times, due to speed and safety limitations most speeds people drive in fit within a space where electric motors exceed at even in these early stages.
As battery technologies improves we will be able to make smaller cars, we should also be able to make lighter cars.
Handling will be better due to more direct power transfers, shorter response times and far lower centers of gravity and more distributed weight.
Electric vehicles will in the future be better than their combustion engine counter parts in basically all regards, the technology isn't quite there yet, since even a top of the line Tesla S has clear disadvantages over vehicles within the same price range, but a lot of those disadvantages are to be expected when "the competition" has a market share of more than 1 billion vehicles and over 1 century of very specific R&D and infrastructure behind it.
Energy produced in internal combustion engines is hardly as efficient as energy produced in a power plant, even if said power plant is using fossil fuels, how much of a difference it exists will depend on the power plant, ad on the ICE and on the fuel used, but as an extremely general rule even if countries weren't already using part renewable energies, it would still be considerably better for the environment if people were using electric vehicles.
This ofc assumes we are talking about 2 purchases of new vehicles where 1 is electric and 1 is a petrol, and that they don't have vastly different carbon footprints, obviously ditching an old but still usable petrol/diesel car for an electric car makes no ecological sense.
An argument can be made that the premium price difference can be used for things that will make more of a difference to the environment like putting some solar panels in your house or the like, but that is a highly user dependent case before we even go into the future ecological benefits of supporting the EV industry this early in the game.
But as a general rule paying that premium will make an ecological difference.
Depends on the cost of electricity where you live, the best way is to look at your electric bill, see how much they charge per KW, then see how much a full battery of a car takes and how many miles it does, add say 20% to that just to be safe (there are energy losses when charging), and you should be able to easily calculate how much it would cost you to charge the car.
That being said it should be a few times cheaper than filling the fuel tank.
https://www.befrugal.com/tools/electric-car-calculator/ This also exists, it is USA specific, and I have no idea how precise it is, but it should give a solid idea.
Assuming that ofc the car companies keep making them, an electric vehicle will be significantly more reliable than a normal petrol vehicle, this excludes the specifics of any single vehicle.
An electric motor is simpler than a combustion engine by many orders of magnitude, it also suffers significantly less stress, a benefit which also extends to other parts of the car since an electric motor by comparison will barely vibrate.
The gearbox is also many times simpler and lighter due to the ability of electric engines to modulate power by changing the frequency.
Being able to put electric motors directly on the drive axles should also make it all around simpler especially for AWD vehicles.
There might be other benefits to maintenance like a more heavenly distributed weight to the car, but the ones above really are the big ticket items.
Electric vehicles will come with other big benefits though, like far more ample room for luggage or cockpit space.
Far better safety due to a lack of a big metal blocks in front/rear of the car, although this benefit will be less significant by the time electric cars become a huge part in the world transportation due to the future prevalence of self driving cars.
Much quicker acceleration times, due to speed and safety limitations most speeds people drive in fit within a space where electric motors exceed at even in these early stages.
As battery technologies improves we will be able to make smaller cars, we should also be able to make lighter cars.
Handling will be better due to more direct power transfers, shorter response times and far lower centers of gravity and more distributed weight.
Electric vehicles will in the future be better than their combustion engine counter parts in basically all regards, the technology isn't quite there yet, since even a top of the line Tesla S has clear disadvantages over vehicles within the same price range, but a lot of those disadvantages are to be expected when "the competition" has a market share of more than 1 billion vehicles and over 1 century of very specific R&D and infrastructure behind it.
Energy produced in internal combustion engines is hardly as efficient as energy produced in a power plant, even if said power plant is using fossil fuels, how much of a difference it exists will depend on the power plant, ad on the ICE and on the fuel used, but as an extremely general rule even if countries weren't already using part renewable energies, it would still be considerably better for the environment if people were using electric vehicles.
This ofc assumes we are talking about 2 purchases of new vehicles where 1 is electric and 1 is a petrol, and that they don't have vastly different carbon footprints, obviously ditching an old but still usable petrol/diesel car for an electric car makes no ecological sense.
An argument can be made that the premium price difference can be used for things that will make more of a difference to the environment like putting some solar panels in your house or the like, but that is a highly user dependent case before we even go into the future ecological benefits of supporting the EV industry this early in the game.
But as a general rule paying that premium will make an ecological difference.
Depends on the cost of electricity where you live, the best way is to look at your electric bill, see how much they charge per KW, then see how much a full battery of a car takes and how many miles it does, add say 20% to that just to be safe (there are energy losses when charging), and you should be able to easily calculate how much it would cost you to charge the car.
That being said it should be a few times cheaper than filling the fuel tank.
https://www.befrugal.com/tools/electric-car-calculator/ This also exists, it is USA specific, and I have no idea how precise it is, but it should give a solid idea.
The only thing holding me off on an electric vehicle is that I have 75 miles of commute each day (36 mi each way), and a standard wall outlet wouldn't be able to charge the vehicle enough to make that daily. Otherwise, I'd be very close to getting an electric vehicle.
My apartment won't let install/let me install a FEMA or whatever power outlet that would make it work for me.
How long does your car sit before you have to leave to work? I plug my Volt in with a completely dead battery at 7 - 8 pm and have a full charge by 5 am the next day. That's charging on the standard outlet using the 12 amp mode.
Not sure the exact cost per charge, but I've seen my electric bill go up around $35 - $50 bucks for the month based on my daily charging. It costs me a little over $20 to fill the tank the last time I had it on empty.
according to this website, at $2.36 per gallon for gas, you do save some money over the long run.
Nissan Leaf vs Civic Hybrid
BMW I3 vs Audi A3
Tesla Model S vs. Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class
Yes, most homes have multi-phase mains AC that allows for both 115V and 230V. The 230V is typically limited to the clothes dryer, oven, and air conditioning, so you would need to add a new circuit in the garage for 230V charging. Those in apartments and whatnot, likely will not have that available to them and would need to rely on 115V charging.
LinkAndEpona
Banned
I want the BMW i3, that ride is pretty sweet.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
What are those disadvantages?
nabe_shogun
Member
I honestly don't see myself buying a new electric car anytime soon. I think the technology is cool, but the cars on the market and the ones coming are just so boring to me. I'd rather take an old car and convert it into an electric car.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It doesn't have that soulful roar of dinosaurs exploding in a metal box