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[Zalusithix]

I'm still remaining neutral and not pledging to anyone. Until the benefits of a power rank outweigh the passive benefits of all of the powers, and until the merit missions pay better, I just don't see a point to making half of the galaxy hostile to me.

Depending on how Aisling's shield turns out, I might pledge for long enough to use them and then drop if I don't end up enjoying the power play experience.

Had a moderator confirm that any points you don't turn in are lost when the cycle changes. They might cave and refund them since the ended a day early but who knows. Not looking good at this point.

Did they mention why they decided to arbitrarily end the cycle early? I would think that you'd typically want to communicate that sort of thing ahead of time. Not that it affects me personally.


Unrelated to power play, I must say that after last night, I'm not sure I'll even go the Anaconda route. The 'Conda should be better in every technical way for trading, but at the same time, I'm kind of enjoying the T9's limitations in a bizarre way. It kind of changes you out of the speed run mentality (something that risks burn out for me). It's slow as molasses and turns like a hobbled cow, but that just adds to the feeling of piloting a dump truck. Then there's the view. I missed the T7's view going to the Python, and it's great to have it back. The T9 is a veritable glass bubble, and there's no way the 'Conda with all its obstructions can compete on that front. Without head tracking it wouldn't matter, but being able to look everywhere with minimal obstruction? Priceless. It makes landing so much more engaging when you can see the starport in all its glory without the ship blocking half of it (and the pad).

Perhaps I'll just save up for the 'Conda without selling the T9. Either that or I'll trade and trade back if I don't like it.

 

[Klyka]

lolwut

We have to turn merits IN or we lose them? What the fuck kinda mechanic is that? Especially since every other mission/reward system in the game doesn't operate like that?

it's because whenever you create a PP point (you do NOT create merits until you hand in the bonds/items) that point is coded towards the system you did the action for.

If i create 2000 PP points by fighting in an expansion system and the cycle ends which means the system is either taken over or not under expansion threat anymore, i obviously can't turn those points in. What would the system use them for if the thing I was performing actions for is over?

 

[la_briola]

I don't understand, why do they need to vanish like that? What is the harm in allowing people to just turn them in for the next new cycle? Merits earned are merits earned. Taking them away suddenly and magically like that simply because some arbitrary timer expires isn't fair at all IMHO.

If they wouldn't vanish: you could collect a huge amount and turn them all in at once, smells like an exploit of the system.

 

[DrBo42]

Not sure how this'll fix anyone that was fucked but here you go:

We'll update the server later today to correct some issues that have arisen from the cycle turnover. That will include a reduction in the decay to account for vouchers and goods that weren't delivered.

Cycles will take place on a Thursday morning during the maintenance shutdown to minimise disruption.


Michael

And a dev update:

Dev Update - 11.06.2015
Hi everyone,

The Powerplay update is now out in the wild and it’s great to see large numbers of players backing their chosen powers – although I am a little disappointed that more of you haven’t backed Archon Delaine! J It is interesting to see the various strategies and schemes people are employing to support their power or sabotage the opposition.

We encountered some server issues over the weekend although as with any release we ensured that there was sufficient coverage, which was the same as if we’d released in the week. However we do appreciate that any downtime especially as busy times can be frustrating. The most pressing of which were tackled by the team covering the release. Like any major release we’re continuing to address the remaining issues with server and client releases this week. Keep an eye out for the change logs for more information. We’ve also received a mass of useful data which we’ll use to perform balance tweaks with these minor updates. Of course we’re also evaluating feedback and discussion and making changes where needed.

There are some issues still being investigated such as the new res sites not populating as expected, and wear and tear costs. The Powerplay update included some fixes for micro-stuttering and stuttering seen on some people’s machines, however while these fixes have helped in many cases, it still affects others so we are still looking into other causes.

It appears that some people aren’t sure about whether to get involved in Powerplay and while we hope that you do (most of the players active since release have signed up for a power) like many parts of the game it’s up to you. You don’t have to sign up for a power and can continue to operate as an independent pilot, or continue backing specific minor factions (which can also feed back into Powerplay). Powers have area effects for the regions they control, so it can be a benefit to operate in certain areas even if you haven’t backed the powers. Of course the reverse is also true, but in either case there is a shifting geography of states and changes which enhances the map of the galaxy.

As part of development we’re always looking to improve existing systems and one system that has received a behind the scenes update has been the web service for exploration scans. An optimisation has been added to the server to improve the look up times when calculating the value of scans. This optimisation is applied to new data generated with the Powerplay (1.3) release, so selling your data for scans after this time will benefit. Scans before this time don’t benefit though. Naturally we target such changes where they have the greatest impact and currently exploration data is the largest block of data that we store for the game, so this made it the natural target.

Over the past week we’ve shadow banned a number of players for cheating with community goals.

Next week brings E3 and various parts of the team have been working hard to support our announcements and presence at this show. We’re quite excited for what will be shown!

Thanks

Michael

 

[Anton Sugar]

I guess ya'll are right, but can't you exploit CGs by saving up bounties and exploration data and then turning them all in after signing up? Or did they change that?

Good vid by Kornelius on Powerplay problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQKe7gvAVSU

 

[Dreams-Visions]

If they fix the lost voucher situation by crediting all of us, I'll play PP again. If not, my thoughts are as follows:

Had a moderator confirm that any points you don't turn in are lost when the cycle changes. They might cave and refund them since the ended a day early but who knows. Not looking good at this point.

I can't even lie: I'm really salty about this. That was 2 days of work in the free time I had to play. I don't have 6-8 hours to play to just make up for what was just taken away from me arbratarially. And it's not about the vouchers so much as the time I lost. I only have so much time to play and this just took time away from me that I can't get back. That actually hurts more than anything else. That was 2 days worth of my free time that I could have been making actual money (I mentioned here that I wasn't especially happy collecting vouchers a couple of days ago because I wasn't making any money) in CZs or RES sites or trading.

This was an experiment for me to see if PP was going to be worth it somehow for me as someone who can't put 30 hours/week into the mode. I consider this not just a failed experiment but an offensive turn of events. I'm offended that my vouchers would vanish literally while I'm farming for more vouchers without any clear explanation or countdown...and despite the world-wide understanding that a week is 7 days and that PP was advertised to last a week. If they can put a timer on Community Goals, they could have put a fucking timer on PP. And consider: if you're participating in a CG and time runs out on you or if it reaches the end before you turn in your trades/exploration data/bounty vouchers....your shit doesn't just magically disappear! You can still turn those in and get paid. They literally deleted my time and effort.

I do not expect to participate in PP again.

 

[DrBo42]

If they fix the lost voucher situation by crediting all of us, I'll play PP again. If not, my thoughts are as follows:


I can't even lie: I'm really salty about this. That was 2 days of work in the free time I had to play. I don't have 6-8 hours to play to just make up for what was just taken away from me arbratarially. And it's not about the vouchers so much as the time I lost. I only have so much time to play and this just took time away from me that I can't get back. That actually hurts more than anything else. That was 2 days worth of my free time that I could have been making actual money (I mentioned here that I wasn't especially happy collecting vouchers a couple of days ago because I wasn't making any money) in CZs or RES sites or trading.

This was an experiment for me to see if PP was going to be worth it somehow for me as someone who can't put 30 hours/week into the mode. I consider this not just a failed experiment but an offensive turn of events. I'm offended that my vouchers would vanish literally while I'm farming for more vouchers without any clear explanation or countdown...and despite the world-wide understanding that a week is 7 days and that PP was advertised to last a week. If they can put a timer on Community Goals, they could have put a fucking timer on PP. And consider: if you're participating in a CG and time runs out on you or if it reaches the end before you turn in your trades/exploration data/bounty vouchers....your shit doesn't just magically disappear! You can still turn those in and get paid. They literally deleted my time and effort.

I do not expect to participate in PP again.

I cannot blame you. I got the merits I farmed and even I feel like my time and effort has been deleted. None of it really means anything right now...at all. If my power collapsed tomorrow what would change in the galaxy? Lol. It's a joke. They stacked scaffolding of grind gameplay on top of a core of grind gameplay.

 

[Mengy]

If they fix the lost voucher situation by crediting all of us, I'll play PP again. If not, my thoughts are as follows:


I can't even lie: I'm really salty about this. That was 2 days of work in the free time I had to play. I don't have 6-8 hours to play to just make up for what was just taken away from me arbratarially. And it's not about the vouchers so much as the time I lost. I only have so much time to play and this just took time away from me that I can't get back. That actually hurts more than anything else. That was 2 days worth of my free time that I could have been making actual money (I mentioned here that I wasn't especially happy collecting vouchers a couple of days ago because I wasn't making any money) in CZs or RES sites or trading.

This was an experiment for me to see if PP was going to be worth it somehow for me as someone who can't put 30 hours/week into the mode. I consider this not just a failed experiment but an offensive turn of events. I'm offended that my vouchers would vanish literally while I'm farming for more vouchers without any clear explanation or countdown...and despite the world-wide understanding that a week is 7 days and that PP was advertised to last a week. If they can put a timer on Community Goals, they could have put a fucking timer on PP. And consider: if you're participating in a CG and time runs out on you or if it reaches the end before you turn in your trades/exploration data/bounty vouchers....your shit doesn't just magically disappear! You can still turn those in and get paid. They literally deleted my time and effort.

I do not expect to participate in PP again.

Apparently it is by design:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2381332#post2381332

Hi There,

Thanks for bringing this up. Any outstanding vouchers and powerplay cargo are purposefully wiped at the end of the cycle This is by design.

Kind Regards,
//Donny

 

[Zalusithix]

Apparently it is by design:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2381332#post2381332

Did they redesign the length of the week while they were at it?

 

[DrBo42]

So my power, space Daenerys had a system we prepped ready for expansion this week.

FDev said that system was within 15ly of another system that was being prepped by an enemy faction, they had more prep amount and cancelled ours out. That 15ly radius rule/condition wasn't stated anywhere or included in their video tutorials.

Not only that, the systems are actually 15.4ly away and not in each other radii. Now we're fighting to get our points and system back. It's a clusterfuck, powerplay is a fucking mess.

 

[Zalusithix]

So my power, space Daenerys had a system we prepped ready for expansion this week.

FDev said that system was within 15ly of another system that was being prepped by an enemy faction, they had more prep amount and cancelled ours out. That 15ly radius rule/condition wasn't stated anywhere or included in their video tutorials.

Not only that, the systems are actually 15.4ly away and not in each other radii. Now we're fighting to get our points and system back. It's a clusterfuck, powerplay is a fucking mess.

I just don't know why it wasn't kept in beta longer. Seriously, a huge system like power play takes time to properly beta test. If they don't have the requisite number of people with beta access, then just ditch the whole backers only beta nonsense.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Apparently it is by design:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2381332#post2381332

I don't have a problem with it as long as it's clear and up-front on when something is going to end. In other games (Diablo 3, for example), they provide you a count down from 30 minutes out and the downtime is made clear days in advance. Even in the Community Goals themselves, we see exact timers for days, hours and minutes until a CG ends.

How much more important is clear communication in a mode where there is the plan to *delete* someone's time and effort should they fail to meet the planned deadline? Why would you not make clear in-game exactly when said deadline arrives? Why would you want your player base to be surprised?

No exaggeration: I was doing voucher bounty hunting and I looked at my hud to see how close I was to my goal of 1500 (I think I needed 300 more or so) and I didn't see the listing. I thought it was a glitch and kept logging in and out and checking the side hud to see where my total was. Then I saw the message about having 1200 unsubmitted vouchers and I was like, what the fuuuuuck? And I took to the forums/GAF/reddit to see what the hell was happening.

I will be very disappointed if they don't make an exception this time. It's just the right thing to do.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I haven't found much information on how or if Powerplay plays nicely with Wings. If you're in a Wing, are any merits shared as you complete stuff?

I just don't know why it wasn't kept in beta longer. Seriously, a huge system like power play takes time to properly beta test. If they don't have the requisite number of people with beta access, then just ditch the whole backers only beta nonsense.

I was shocked when it was released. Didn't play the beta but expected it to be in beta for at least two weeks, considering the scope.

 

[DrBo42]

Frontier has been terrible with communication from day 1. I don't even know what their community manager does. The Executive Producer is the most active voice out there...what?

At least progress is being made:

UPDATE:

Double checking the distance we found that as mentioned Grovichun had been wrongly excluded at 15.3 ly
So we have put that system in to expansion for Aisling Duval.

Thanks to feed back it was noticed that a few existing expansions were aligned to the wrong power this affected the following systems:

Vaka moves from Denton Patreus to A Lavigny-Duval
Kappa Fornacis moves from Zachary Hudson to Zemina Torval

Michael

CC amounts are still fucked across the board. Hopefully that gets fixed as well.

 

[Hylian7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQKe7gvAVSU

Kornelius published a video about the top 10 worst things about Powerplay.

I agree with this mostly, I think the biggest thing is the fact that if you align with a power, you become automatically hostile to other ships (including players) in some systems.

 

[Shifty76]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQKe7gvAVSU

Kornelius published a video about the top 10 worst things about Powerplay.

I agree with this mostly, I think the biggest thing is the fact that if you align with a power, you become automatically hostile to other ships (including players) in some systems.

Anton Sugar beat you to it a few posts back

I'm thinking I'll just stay neutral until the get it smoothed out.

 

[Lagamorph]

Does the game just not work in Windowed mode? I'm trying to play the game in windowed mode whilst doing other things, but it just keeps hanging. It either hangs on the loading screen after selecting Open Play, or hangs during a hyperspace jump. It seems that the game will run fine at first, but as soon as I take focus away from the Elite client window and give it to another window, the next loading screen just hangs the game completely.
Alt-tabbing out of full screen is fine, but windowed mode just doesn't seem to work at all.

 

[Zalusithix]

I'm going to have to revise my previous opinion that outfitting a T9 with weapons is silly because it's not really a combat capable ship. The new AI's tendency to sometimes continuously re-interdict your ship means you either have to fight to the death or jump to another system and back. Generally I've found that the ones that constantly re-interdict are ironically the least threatening, and thus the little shits should just be blown up. It takes about as much time as double jumping, but instead of burning money on additional fuel use, you get a bounty payout instead. That and it's much more satisfying to sit there stretching for a bit while your turrets burn some holes through them.

 

[mercenar1e]

so with the 10% discount i jumped at the chance of playing this game and im using a keyboard and mouse.. i had buyers regret and requested a refund.

 

[SmartBase]

edit: Ah crap, excuse this rant right at the top of the page :/

I thought I'd jump back in with Powerplay since it seemed to add a bit more substance to what you do in the game but the merit system is absolutely ludicrous. For combat merits in specific combat zones you get 1 per kill regardless of ship type so going after bigger ships is a gigantic waste of time, but if you just jump into another faction's space and start interdicting and destroying their mostly defenceless ships you get 15 per kill (I think this was the undermining part?). You only get something like 100 credits per merit (or was it kill?) so it's not exactly a solid career choice.

I still gave it a shot and had a few hundred merits to turn in when Frontier decided that a week in Elite is only 6 days and the merits I hadn't cashed in are now gone. Just need another week or so for the merit decay to set in and I'll be right back where I started.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

edit: Ah crap, excuse this rant right at the top of the page :/

I thought I'd jump back in with Powerplay since it seemed to add a bit more substance to what you do in the game but the merit system is absolutely ludicrous. For combat merits in specific combat zones you get 1 per kill regardless of ship type so going after bigger ships is a gigantic waste of time, but if you just jump into another faction's space and start interdicting and destroying their mostly defenceless ships you get 15 per kill (I think this was the undermining part?). You only get something like 100 credits per merit (or was it kill?) so it's not exactly a solid career choice.

I still gave it a shot and had a few hundred merits to turn in when Frontier decided that a week in Elite is only 6 days and the merits I hadn't cashed in are now gone. Just need another week or so for the merit decay to set in and I'll be right back where I started.

Yep, it's bullshit. I was at a Military Strike with a milita opposing human CMDRs and NPCs. I had to bug out after awhile as my shield cell banks were depleted and a wing of FdL + Viper ran me off. I killed several ships and went to check my vouchers and was like....SEVEN???? ARE YOU FUCKING SHITTING ME? I risked my $90,000,000 FdL in a Military Strike conflict zone deep in enemy territory against capable NPCs and human pilots interdicting me along the way for...one voucher/kill? And these aren't bitchass kills on Sidewinders or some shit. I'm killing Dropships, Pythons, Cobras, and Condas...usually with 1 or 2 additional ships shooting at me in addition to the target. Not only are you not getting those nice kill bonds (so that you can have at least some sort of supplemental income), but you're only getting 1 voucher per kill. I...what?

So I switched to an Alliance mission to kill helpless Diplomats in Haulers and Orcas for 15 per again @ 0 risk outside of being interdicted by some CMDR. Because that's fun. Who thought this shit up? Do they have monkeys writing code at FD? Tell me something better than this, FD. Why is it they can't figure out how to make the riskiest endeavors the most rewarding? Pro tip, FD: killing deadly swarms of heavily armed enemies in Conflict Zones should be more rewarding than killing unshielded, lightly armed passenger ships. Dealing in illicit cargo should net you more profit than legal goods. It's not even a complicated thought.

You think Han Solo would have taken the job to save Leah if it paid him pennies? Hell to the no. So why are we being asked to? What is the incentive to put yourself in harms way for 1 voucher? You're better off doing courier runs every 20 minutes. Roughly the same return on time investment @ -1,000,000% less risk to the multi-million dollar ship you're flying around. Or going back to RES farming or quiet CZ farming.

 

[Sinatar]

Yep, it's bullshit. I was at a Military Strike with a milita opposing human CMDRs and NPCs. I had to bug out after awhile as my shield cell banks were depleted and a wing of FdL + Viper ran me off. I killed several ships and went to check my vouchers and was like....SEVEN???? ARE YOU FUCKING SHITTING ME? I risked my $90,000,000 FdL in a Military Strike conflict zone deep in enemy territory against capable NPCs and human pilots interdicting me along the way for...one voucher/kill? And these aren't bitchass kills on Sidewinders or some shit. I'm killing Dropships, Pythons, Cobras, and Condas...usually with 1 or 2 additional ships shooting at me in addition to the target. Not only are you not getting those nice kill bonds (so that you can have at least some sort of supplemental income), but you're only getting 1 voucher per kill. I...what?

So I switched to an Alliance mission to kill helpless Diplomats in Haulers and Orcas for 15 per again @ 0 risk outside of being interdicted by some CMDR. Because that's fun. Who thought this shit up? Do they have monkeys writing code at FD? Tell me something better than this, FD. Why is it they can't figure out how to make the riskiest endeavors the most rewarding? Pro tip, FD: killing deadly swarms of heavily armed enemies in Conflict Zones should be more rewarding than killing unshielded, lightly armed passenger ships. Dealing in illicit cargo should net you more profit than legal goods. It's not even a complicated thought.

You think Han Solo would have taken the job to save Leah if it paid him pennies? Hell to the no. So why are we being asked to? What is the incentive to put yourself in harms way for 1 voucher? You're better off doing courier runs every 20 minutes. Roughly the same return on time investment @ -1,000,000% less risk to the multi-million dollar ship you're flying around. Or going back to RES farming or quiet CZ farming.

Yea powerplay is a complete and utter shitshow.

 

[Zalusithix]

Kind of glad I'm just a trader at this point. While all the power play stuff gets figured out and hopefully fixed, I'm just moving the cow around and watching my route have its vitality slowly sapped from it. Getting pretty used to handling her inertia now, and I must say that I do like the new paint options.

 

[Shifty76]

My pics album from the trip to Sgr A* if anyone is interested:

http://imgur.com/2nHCTlO,rFeHecP,mX...Ssi,CO30W56,EsI4c9J,AbXmWOi,BJGnhDN,5mNyHN0#0

60m and counting so far in terms of profit.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

very nice pics, shifty!

 

[DrBo42]

Yep, it's bullshit. I was at a Military Strike with a milita opposing human CMDRs and NPCs. I had to bug out after awhile as my shield cell banks were depleted and a wing of FdL + Viper ran me off. I killed several ships and went to check my vouchers and was like....SEVEN???? ARE YOU FUCKING SHITTING ME? I risked my $90,000,000 FdL in a Military Strike conflict zone deep in enemy territory against capable NPCs and human pilots interdicting me along the way for...one voucher/kill? And these aren't bitchass kills on Sidewinders or some shit. I'm killing Dropships, Pythons, Cobras, and Condas...usually with 1 or 2 additional ships shooting at me in addition to the target. Not only are you not getting those nice kill bonds (so that you can have at least some sort of supplemental income), but you're only getting 1 voucher per kill. I...what?

So I switched to an Alliance mission to kill helpless Diplomats in Haulers and Orcas for 15 per again @ 0 risk outside of being interdicted by some CMDR. Because that's fun. Who thought this shit up? Do they have monkeys writing code at FD? Tell me something better than this, FD. Why is it they can't figure out how to make the riskiest endeavors the most rewarding? Pro tip, FD: killing deadly swarms of heavily armed enemies in Conflict Zones should be more rewarding than killing unshielded, lightly armed passenger ships. Dealing in illicit cargo should net you more profit than legal goods. It's not even a complicated thought.

You think Han Solo would have taken the job to save Leah if it paid him pennies? Hell to the no. So why are we being asked to? What is the incentive to put yourself in harms way for 1 voucher? You're better off doing courier runs every 20 minutes. Roughly the same return on time investment @ -1,000,000% less risk to the multi-million dollar ship you're flying around. Or going back to RES farming or quiet CZ farming.

You can't even rationalize the difficulty of being deep in enemy territory because players can just go to Solo/Private. Powerplay either shouldn't be accessible outside of Open or severely crush the impact Solo players have.

 

[Zalusithix]

My pics album from the trip to Sgr A* if anyone is interested:

http://imgur.com/2nHCTlO,rFeHecP,mX...Ssi,CO30W56,EsI4c9J,AbXmWOi,BJGnhDN,5mNyHN0#0

60m and counting so far in terms of profit.

You're making me want a Clipper again. I could easily buy one at this point too - if they'd let me. The Empire doesn't seem to think I'm worthy of the Baron rank. Sitting at Lord for what feels like forever now. Ran dozens of missions, and have rep'd up multiple minor factions to ally status since. Hell, I'm allied with the Empire as a whole now. Still no naval ascension option. At this rate, I think I'll hit Tycoon ranking before the they offer me the Baron title.

You can't even rationalize the difficulty of being deep in enemy territory because players can just go to Solo/Private. Powerplay either shouldn't be accessible outside of Open or severely crush the impact Solo players have.

Or just make opposing CMDRs worth a hell of a lot in those zones. Gives people in open play a reward for that risk that solo can't reap.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I've been completely pulled away from Elite because of the Witcher, but I hope to be back soon. I'm disappointed to hear that Powerplay is a mess at this point.

 

[DrBo42]

You're making me want a Clipper again. I could easily buy one at this point too - if they'd let me. The Empire doesn't seem to think I'm worthy of the Baron rank. Sitting at Lord for what feels like forever now. Ran dozens of missions, and have rep'd up multiple minor factions to ally status since. Hell, I'm allied with the Empire as a whole now. Still no naval ascension option. At this rate, I think I'll hit Tycoon ranking before the they offer me the Baron title.


Or just make opposing CMDRs worth a hell of a lot in those zones. Gives people in open play a reward for that risk that solo can't reap.

Doesn't quite make sense. When you're invading enemy territory for merits, you're after the faction ships, not the players. Making the defending CMDRs worth merits wouldn't entice the solo players, simply because in pvp it's not easy to secure a kill unless you're in a group. Solo players typically are shite at pvp so they don't want to attempt it. You'd have to make the gains in Open far above what you get in Solo or Private.

 

[Zalusithix]

Doesn't quite make sense. When you're invading enemy territory for merits, you're after the faction ships, not the players. Making the defending CMDRs worth merits wouldn't entice the solo players, simply because in pvp it's not easy to secure a kill unless you're in a group. Solo players typically are shite at pvp so they don't want to attempt it. You'd have to make the gains in Open far above what you get in Solo or Private.

Of course it wouldn't entice solo players. You'll have a hard time ever enticing solo players into PvP situations. They're typically in solo because they don't want that aspect to begin with. I was simply providing a mechanism by which open players wont switch to solo for farming merits and then back that didn't involve nerfing something. Seems like far too many issues in the game end up balanced by nerfs and not buffs.

 

[DrBo42]

Of course it wouldn't entice solo players. You'll have a hard time ever enticing solo players into PvP situations. They're typically in solo because they don't want that aspect to begin with. I was simply providing a mechanism by which open players wont switch to solo for farming merits and then back that didn't involve nerfing something. Seems like far too many issues in the game end up balanced by nerfs and not buffs.

Right but making the defending players worth merits isn't the fix. You'd be outnumbered. The only real solution is to make the gains in Open above any other mode making the evasion and risk worthwhile.

 

[Mengy]

I've been completely pulled away from Elite because of the Witcher, but I hope to be back soon. I'm disappointed to hear that Powerplay is a mess at this point.

PP is a mess, but an interesting and promising mess. They just need to fix some bugs and re-balance a few things to make it more worthwhile. Even staying neutral like I am and not pledging to anyone, the 1.3 patch added a lot of character to the galaxy map, and the passive bonuses to the regions are kinda cool. Personally I'm staying neutral until they fix it up or make it more financially lucrative.

As primarily an explorer though, Power Play didn't really add anything of value to the game for me.

 

[DrBo42]

Update 1.3.03 incoming

Powerplay update 1.3.03 is incoming at 2.30 pm (BST). The client update contains a single fix to address mission related adjudication server error.

It also contains the following server changes:

- Updated the CC balances displayed for each power (Note that this includes the overhead for number of systems that are controlled or exploited by that power - this is being added in a client update next week)
- Significant performance improvement to the exploration servers

For those Commanders with a lot of unsold exploration scans from before the release of 1.3, we've started to upgrade the older data to make them as quick to sell as more recent scans. This is a background process, so whilst we have added more server capacity, it will likely take most of the weekend to complete.

Thanks

Michael

 

[Zalusithix]

Right but making the defending players worth merits isn't the fix. You'd be outnumbered. The only real solution is to make the gains in Open above any other mode making the evasion and risk worthwhile.

Completely removing a game aspect from solo play isn't the fix either. (Nor is nerfing it to the point where it might as well be removed.) If they unlink power play from solo, then they'd have to unlink every other shared aspect of the universe as well.

A way to reward the risk has to be found. Not a way to nerf the existing system. The grind in the game is already high enough. Constantly nerfing stuff so everybody is as miserable as the other person isn't the solution.

 

[DrBo42]

Completely removing a game aspect from solo play isn't the fix either. (Nor is nerfing it to the point where it might as well be removed.) If they unlink power play from solo, then they'd have to unlink every other shared aspect of the universe as well.

A way to reward the risk has to be found. Not a way to nerf the existing system. The grind in the game is already high enough. Constantly nerfing stuff so everybody is as miserable as the other person isn't the solution.

Well decisions clearly need to be made. Solo and private detracts from every system in place in ED. With the introduction of Powerplay it's even more absurd.

 

[Zalusithix]

Well decisions clearly need to be made. Solo and private detracts from every system in place in ED. With the introduction of Powerplay it's even more absurd.

IMO, solo/private don't detract from anything. It's open that's messed up. They haven't figured out a way to make the risk of PvP worthwhile. Even if they separated the solo/private universes from open, the risk/reward for open still would be shit.

 

[DrBo42]

IMO, solo/private don't detract from anything. It's open that's messed up. They haven't figured out a way to make the risk of PvP worthwhile. Even if they separated the solo/private universes from open, the risk/reward for open still would be shit.

The sheer existence of those modes are why risk and reward don't work. They can't balance how much to make pvp encounters worth because it's optional.

 

[Zalusithix]

The sheer existence of those modes are why risk and reward don't work. They can't balance how much to make pvp encounters worth because it's optional.

Risk and reward for PvP in open play is independent of PvE in all modes. Systems that reward PvP highly will give edges to those in open that simply don't exist in solo/private. Thus a successful person in open would be more successful than the same person could ever be in private/solo. Meanwhile a private/solo person's experience is unaffected.

 

[DrBo42]

Risk and reward for PvP in open play is independent of PvE in all modes. Systems that reward PvP highly will give edges to those in open that simply don't exist in solo/private. Thus a successful person in open would be more successful than the same person could ever be in private/solo. Meanwhile a private/solo person's experience is unaffected.

You can't just look at it purely from a fighting and profit perspective. The lack of social interaction hurts the possibilities of every path and gameplay system.

 

[Mengy]

Well decisions clearly need to be made. Solo and private detracts from every system in place in ED. With the introduction of Powerplay it's even more absurd.

IMO, solo/private don't detract from anything. It's open that's messed up. They haven't figured out a way to make the risk of PvP worthwhile. Even if they separated the solo/private universes from open, the risk/reward for open still would be shit.

The only reason why solo/private mode exists at all is because death in Elite can be punishing, and with griefers and people killing other players simply for the sport of it, solo mode is needed to keep people happy.

My honest opinion is that there is only one fair and balanced way to remove solo mode without pissing people off too much: make death less punishing. If dying didn't cost so many credits for insurance, if dying didn't erase all of your exploration data or bounties, then would anyone really be that upset at being killed in game? Sure traders could lose all of their cargo, but if it cost next to nothing to respawn and it was easy to get back into the game even upon losing every credit you have, then solo mode could disappear.

I mean think about it, would the game itself really be any worse if death was like it is in World of Warcraft? (losing nothing but time and location) This is essentially a MMO simulator in space, it's not the old Elite single player rogue-like space game, yet FDev keeps trying to do both. The result is a split of the playerbase between solo and open modes, and yeah the game world suffers for it IMHO.

 

[Zalusithix]

You can't just look at it purely from a fighting and profit perspective. The lack of social interaction hurts the possibilities of every path and gameplay system.

There's not much else to balance other than combat and its respective rewards in the current game. Solo/private don't hurt the social possibilities. The lack of social game elements hurts the possibilities. The social aspects are bare bones and removing solo and private wont do anything for that. Meanwhile, the addition of more social elements doesn't affect the balance of solo/private.

The only reason why solo/private mode exists at all is because death in Elite can be punishing, and with griefers and people killing other players simply for the sport of it, solo mode is needed to keep people happy.

My honest opinion is that there is only one fair and balanced way to remove solo mode without pissing people off too much: make death less punishing. If dying didn't cost so many credits for insurance, if dying didn't erase all of your exploration data or bounties, then would anyone really be that upset at being killed in game? Sure traders could lose all of their cargo, but if it cost next to nothing to respawn and it was easy to get back into the game even upon losing every credit you have, then solo mode could disappear.

I mean think about it, would the game itself really be any worse if death was like it is in World of Warcraft? (losing nothing but time and location) This is essentially a MMO simulator in space, it's not the old Elite single player rogue-like space game, yet FDev keeps trying to do both. The result is a split of the playerbase between solo and open modes, and yeah the game world suffers for it IMHO.

Reducing the grind would be an improvement, but they'd have to do more than that to make worth it for a lot of solo/private players. The game simply doesn't have anything else to do. The social aspects are minimal. The PvE is basic. The PvP... Well you're not going to win over the solo/private crowd with that. Currently the grind is the game.

 

[DrBo42]

There's not much else to balance other than combat and its respective rewards in the current game. Solo/private don't hurt the social possibilities. The lack of social game elements hurts the possibilities. The social aspects are bare bones and removing solo and private wont do anything for that. Meanwhile, the addition of more social elements doesn't affect the balance of solo/private.

You can't implement elements that require cooperation to function because solo exists. They're limited to what they can create because it has to work in solo. How do you not see that as a detriment?

 

[Zalusithix]

You can't implement elements that require cooperation to function because solo exists. They're limited to what they can create because it has to work in solo. How do you not see that as a detriment?

There's no requirement for cooperative functions to exist in solo. You can't use wings in solo, and that's the social interaction of the game so far. They can do whatever they want in open in regards to social stuff and not impact solo NPC interaction. If they were feeling generous though, they could allow AI to take the place of players in a lot of the stuff.

 

[DrBo42]

There's no requirement for cooperative functions to exist in solo. You can't use wings in solo, and that's the social interaction of the game so far. They can do whatever they want in open in regards to social stuff and not impact solo NPC interaction. If they were feeling generous though, they could allow AI to take the place of players in a lot of the stuff.

I feel like I'm being trolled. The designers absolutely have their hands tied by what and what cannot go into the game because of solo.

 

[Zalusithix]

I feel like I'm being trolled. The designers absolutely have their hands tied by what and what cannot go into the game because of solo.

Trolled? I provided a concrete example of a social function that exists in open and not in solo, thus proving that FD isn't against implementing social aspects without solo equivalents. Implementing parties, guilds/orgs/clans, etc isn't contingent on having an equivalent in solo.

 

[DrBo42]

Trolled? I provided a concrete example of a social function that exists in open and not in solo, thus proving that FD isn't against implementing social aspects without solo equivalents. Implementing parties, guilds/orgs/clans, etc isn't contingent on having an equivalent in solo.

Take something like multi-crew ships. They can't implement that unless they have an AI equivalent for solo, holding back the game.

 

[Zalusithix]

Take something like multi-crew ships. They can't implement that unless they have an AI equivalent for solo, holding back the game.

The ships are already in the game for multi-crew - the seats are just empty. The systems on those ships are currently totally automated (turrets, gimbals, some aspects of module power management), or left to the lone pilot (nav, target selection, flying, sys/eng/wep levels, etc). So no, they can implement multi-crew on ships just fine in open without any more AI than the ships currently have in solo. Multi-crew would just lessen the load on the pilot which would actually be an incentive for solo players to go open.

But yes, they could go the extra mile and allow you to hire AI crew to man stations. Just like they could go the extra mile and allow you to have AI wing-mates. They haven't on the wing aspect, and thus there's no precedent for them having to do so with with multi-crew. The AI aspect would be equally useful as an option in all modes.

 

[DrBo42]

The ships are already in the game for multi-crew - the seats are just empty. The systems on those ships are currently totally automated (turrets, gimbals, some aspects of module power management), or left to the lone pilot (nav, target selection, flying, sys/eng/wep levels, etc). So no, they can implement multi-crew on ships just fine in open without any more AI than the ships currently have in solo. Multi-crew would just lessen the load on the pilot which would actually be an incentive for solo players to go open.

But yes, they could go the extra mile and allow you to hire AI crew to man stations. Just like they could go the extra mile and allow you to have AI wing-mates. They haven't on the wing aspect, and thus there's no precedent for them having to do so with with multi-crew. The AI aspect would be equally useful as an option in all modes.

I can't believe you went there. LOL. Are you seriously going to tell me that solo doesn't hold this game back?

 

[Pomerlaw]

They should not allow players who play solo to get back in open.

Solo is fine with me, but we should chose were our commander is at the beggining, with grown men or children. lol joking

 

[Zalusithix]

I can't believe you went there. LOL. Are you seriously going to tell me that solo doesn't hold this game back?

What I said was a fact. There's no special multi-crew ships that they need to design that they're not because of solo mode. The ships are there. The modeling is done. The time needs to be spent linking up the the gameplay systems and players in an online environment. That is a task not hampered by solo play in the least. Once again, the ships are already being piloted by people solo in all modes. They don't need multi-crew to function. Adding the functionality doesn't change the current solo game yet benefits open (and private).

And yes, I'm seriously saying that solo isn't a significant factor in holding the game back. All the advanced multiplayer aspects are just more difficult to implement. I don't think FD has the money or manpower to quickly implement them. Going by the short beta, I don't think they even have the resources to hold back updates until they're really ready. Killing off solo and losing a portion of the userbase that's giving FD money isn't going to help with that.

I'm willing to change my mind if examples are given where I see solo as legitimately impeding progress somehow, but so far you've offered me nothing. Frankly I see more of a misguided vendetta on killing solo than I see an interest in improving open.