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[Inuhanyou]

The people who play Nintendo games alone are the ones who bought the Wii U.

That didn't work.

I can just see the "I've heard it's pretty outdated" conversations happening between people at work.

I dont understand this argument. Who exactly do you think is going to bother going from PS4, XB1 or PC to Nintendo in the first place for games they can already get regardless of the power?

Why are you so obsessed with Nintendo going after the other guys? Nintendo has their own niche and they should exploit that...that niche has little to do with power or 'hardcore audiences'.

 

[Enduin]

At this point I just want the most bang for my buck and that means cross compatibility between the handheld and the console for a majority of titles. I buy one a game for one and it plays on both, most of the time. If that means relatively weaker console specs I'm fine with that, I don't really want to spend a whole lot on a console in the first place. I have a PC to sink money into.

Ideal scenario for me is you have a capable handheld priced $150-200 tops and then a console at $250-300, better have a really great game bundled with it in that $300 event, hell even at $250 they should bundle something catchy.

More importantly though, you'd only have two divisions of games. Those that work on both platforms and those that only work on the console. Games designed to run on both could have added enhancements when played on the console, but not required, well besides basic IQ improvements. Any game that only works on the console though would be playable via streaming on the handheld like the Wii U gamepad off TV feature, Nvidia GameStream or remote play on Vita.

For me this is key. I like handheld gaming a lot. The 3DS has gotten a ton of great games and I use it all the time. Wii U though has only a few I really want to play and as of right now none have pushed me to get the system. Only Zelda at this point will do that. But had the Wii U been cross compatible, where I could have played my 3DS games on the big screen with better resolution and IQ I would have been all over that and bought it years ago. It's a value added feature. People can talk about lost sales by not having multiple game versions for both devices, but from my perspective that's negligible compared to potential sales from those like me who have completely abstained from getting the consoles at all, let alone whether I bought both MK7 and 8 or Smash on both systems. Great they'll lose on that double dip opportunity, but now I'll actually be buying the console system, plus console only games and other crossplay games because I can play them on either of my devices depending on my mood. For me that would be a major incentive that would bring down my threshold of whether to buy a game or not cause it will feel like I'm always getting two games for the price of one. When in reality that's only the case for very few titles traditionally.

Plus you'd have other simpler stuff like using the handheld as a controller for the console, especially if they toss the Gamepad type setup so those who like it could still effectively have a second screen experience again allowing you to access menus and look at maps via the handheld without pausing. In the event they do retain a gamepad like controller the handheld could then act as a ready second controller allowing for interesting co-op/multiplayer that the Wii U never got to explore.

 

[CrazyHorse]

To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.

Completely contradicts Emily's interpretation.

Polaris it is!

 

[NateDrake]

Trev and Emily have lost their ways. I wished I could get inside info to show them how it's done. Sometimes I wonder how much of the "publicity" gets to their heads since they know all eyes are on them for info. They think they know everything, but they don't.

All these damn Youtuber like Obe1 and PlayerEssence think they know it all. "Omg NX will be super powerful". All they do is set themselves up for disappointment and then they'll blame Nintendo for not giving them their concocted speculated rumors they've got boiling in their brains. I forgot Ghost Robo is another one. He was making videos how NX will be so powerful and have haptic feedback controllers when those fake controller leaks came out.

Every new "rumor" is constantly changing "power levels" or contradicting past rumors...it's so annoying man.

The truth is no one knows the power of NX - and those that do aren't going to leak it. Trev had his source and likely lost that source after posting that budget information, so what Trev says at this point is likely speculation - though it could be considered educated speculation. Emily has admitted she has no tech knowledge, and her sources could be giving her their opinions on NX power, which should never be reported as fact. Her rumor reports generally have a negative format to them, and look how the thread responded to such phrasing.

It's better for everyone to just wait and see what comes. Losing their mind or getting super excited over each rumor is a recipe for disaster. The other issue is the blanket statements some of the rumors use. They are all intentionally vague for a reason.

 

[CrazyHorse]

I dont understand this argument. Who exactly do you think is going to bother going from PS4, XB1 or PC to Nintendo in the first place for games they can already get regardless of the power?

Nintendo wants them.

So N will get more exclusives to attract them. They don't want to do another Wii U.

 

[StarStabbedMoon]

Nintendo wants them.

So N will get more exclusives to attract them. They don't want to do another Wii U.

Nintendo can't always get what they want.

 

[Cheerilee]

Yeah, but I think it's safe to say that they won't be using a decade-old CPU this time.

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-As...nted-Use-of-the-Latest-Technology-205699.html

Wii takes full advantage of state-of-the-art semiconductor technologies,

Normally, when making new devices, companies compete with each other on the basis of “How much faster is the CPU, how much more memory is there, and how many more polygons can be displayed?” But Nintendo posed the question “How much can we decrease power consumption and maintain performance?”

 

[Inuhanyou]

Nintendo wants them.

So N will get more exclusives to attract them. They don't want to do another Wii U.

?? I don't understand your argument

 

[charsace]

Not true. OG Xbox has proven notoriously difficult to emulate despite being x86 and being the most "PC-like" console in existence.

The xbox being x86 is good because x86 is a old, popular instruction set that has more documentation and people playing around with it.

Why would running x86 code on future x86 hardware be easier than running ARM code on future ARM hardware, or PowerPC or MIPS or any other instruction set?

x86 != instant BC, nor does it make it particularly easier than staying within any ISA family.

When I talk about emulation I am talking about PC emulation. Which is the most dependable way to preserve games.

 

[i-Jest]

Lets go Wii U 2, lets go

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Nintendo can't always get what they want.

Nintendo hasn't been getting what they want for the better part of four years. Wind's gotta change direction for better fortune at some point.

Preferably before it's too late.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Because people have no idea what x86 or ARM actually means. If it isn't "supercharged PC architecture" how it could it possibly be okay!?

But some have been saying this since early in this topic. I don't get why all of a sudden it's believeable (not taking anything away from Osiris).

When you guys explained ARM and x86 I said cool it works out from the get go.

 

[SegaShack]

Nintendo is making an under powered system and not using x86 architecture? No Way! It's not like they have been doing this since 2006. This speculation stuff is so silly. People should just wait for the console to be announced. Anyone expecting something of a major change should also be prepared in the event that the idea isn't true.

I miss when Nintendo hardware was on par with the competitors. It is lame but I am not going to go in assuming that they will change back to what they used to be.

 

[Astral Dog]

We have tablets stronger than the Wii U

The NX handheld will be stronger than the Wii U

Spoiler

still got us Mario Kart 8, cant wait to see 9

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Nintendo is making an under powered system and not using x86 architecture? No Way! It's not like they have been doing this since 2006. This speculation stuff is so silly. People should just wait for the console to be announced. Anyone expecting something of a major change should also be prepared in the event that the idea isn't true.

Yeah wasn't this the same girl that was just saying last month how NX was more powerful than PS4 and was launching at the end of 2016? I mentioned in that thread that it's Nintendo and to not have expectations. Every build up to a major Nintendo consoles/handhelds is always the same. People believe and buy into rumors which are mostly false, misinterpreting vague statements or running on outdated information. They also comb over tons of patents but very rarely do any of the patents discovered have something to do with the upcoming device. Then people have these wild expectations of a super high tech machine and get angry at Nintendo when they don't do what they were expecting them to do. I semi-jokingly said I expect it to be a console weaker than Xbox One and launching at the end of the fiscal year...

 

[Oddduck]

Yeah wasn't this the same girl that was just saying last month how NX was more powerful than PS4 and was launching at the end of 2016?

I think you might be getting her confused with 10k's rumors from last month.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1207224

 

[Nanashrew]

Just gonna quote this for a new page so people can see Osiris's post.

To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.

--

But some have been saying this since early in this topic. I don't get why all of a sudden it's believeable (not taking anything away from Osiris).

When you guys explained ARM and x86 I said cool it works out from the get go.

Because majority don't understand tech, rather make ignorant posts and be irrationally mad and completely reactionary to any given situation, refusal to listen to others who do have understanding, not willing to ask questions. Also lots of drive-by posts.

--
But yeah, as Durante said pages ago, there's negligible difference between ARM and x86, and we should not really care or put so much focus on the ISA. And as Blu said pages ago, there is no advantage or disadvantage to using x86 or ARM in a game console.

I could also pick and choose many posts out of the thread from tech people saying the same things, about porting, not being being exotic architecture etc.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I think you might be getting her confused with 10k's rumors from last month.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1207224

You're correct but I believe she initially backed him up saying she heard similar things from multiple sources when he only vaguely mentioned that it was more powerful than PS4. When 10K started getting into specs of the system is when Emily said her sources were saying it's BS.

 

[Kurt]

As i already said before. If its between xbox and ps4, we wont notice to much differents. We can see that already with xbox and ps4. Games like mario kart 8 and zelda and mario galaxy are proving that nintendo can do really nice things with hardware. So we will be suprised gfx wise with the new games. My only problem is that there are already many ps4 sold. So the question is, will people buy it for only nintendo games? Meaning that 3th party games are going to be released on all 3 consoles? I'm sure that besides the on par gfx, nintendo will have something brand new gamepmay exp. But for now it can be everything...


Anyway most important to know:
If nintendo had better gfx than both, why would 3th party creating exclusive games for that console?

 

[Rodin]

Initially, Emily never tried to shut down any rumor about the NX being better than ps4 (lcgeek about the CPU and 10k's first round of rumors) or the speculation about this being the case. Then 10k moved to Polaris and PS4 Neo ballpark in real world performances thanks to architectural advantages and that's when she started saying it was nonsense. She only denied the Neo ballpark part. Now she went from that to xbone level and the "stretching a bit" cryptic shit, so yeah, something doesn't add up.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

You're correct but I believe she initially backed him up saying she heard similar things from multiple sources when he only vaguely mentioned that it was more powerful than PS4. When 10K started getting into specs of the system is when Emily said her sources were saying it's BS.

The only thing she backed him on were the Smash and Zelda ports. And considering that all 10k does is report on whatever any random schmoe and twitter tells him probably means Emily also told him out right. The NX probably isn't going to be more powerful than PS4. Using X86 never really made that much sense to begin with. Nintendo hasn't been interested in competing on power since the Super Nintendo.

 

[Schnozberry]

The only thing she backed him on were the Smash and Zelda ports. And considering that all 10k does is report on whatever any random schmoe and twitter tells him probably means Emily also told him out right. The NX probably isn't going to be more powerful than PS4. Using X86 never really made that much sense to begin with. Nintendo hasn't been interested in competing on power since the Super Nintendo.

You're right about 10k, but Nintendo was very much in the hardware arms race up until the Wii.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

You're right about 10k, but Nintendo was very much in the hardware arms race up until the Wii.

Not really with the N64 or Gamecube. They could hold their own in their own right but raw power was never really the goal of these systems.

 

[Mpl90]

In the last few hours, Emily also specified on Twitter how

"Nowhere in my post talks about real in-game performance. Only raw power"

While discussing about 10k's behaviour. Just to reinforce what said already in the thread several times alongside OsirisBlack's post.

Spoiler

Dat 10k saga though

 

[Kurt]

Nintendo is making an under powered system and not using x86 architecture? No Way! It's not like they have been doing this since 2006. This speculation stuff is so silly. People should just wait for the console to be announced. Anyone expecting something of a major change should also be prepared in the event that the idea isn't true.

I miss when Nintendo hardware was on par with the competitors. It is lame but I am not going to go in assuming that they will change back to what they used to be.

So it's stronger than a xbox one, but you are complaining that it's underpowered.
What do you mean?

 

[JasonUresti]

Not really with the N64 or Gamecube. They could hold their own in their own right but raw power was never really the goal of these systems.

They were as good as any console out in their generation.

Raw power wasn't a goal of nes or SNES either. It never has been for a Nintendo system. Really, raw power has rarely been the goal of a mainstream targeted game console, from any company.

 

[Schnozberry]

Not really with the N64 or Gamecube. They could hold their own in their own right but raw power was never really the goal of these systems.

N64 was loads more powerful than the PS1, and the Cube was right up there with the Xbox and a good bit more powerful than the PS2. It was storage design quirks that ultimately caused problems for both.

 

[Schnozberry]

In the last few hours, Emily also specified on Twitter how

"Nowhere in my post talks about real in-game performance. Only raw power"

While discussing about 10k's behaviour. Just to reinforce what said already in the thread several times alongside OsirisBlack's post.

Spoiler

Dat 10k saga though

She was in a Twitter slapfight with our old pal 10k. I don't think she's wrong though. If the other rumors about Nvidia being Nintendo's hardware partner are true, a system being slightly more powerful than the Xbox One on paper should compete nicely with the PS4. Nvidia calculates Raw Power differently and anyone who follows PC GPU's closely can tell you that there is an exchange rate of sorts when discussing AMD vs Nvidia FLOPS.

 

[Diffense]

Why is there a sudden obsession with x86. The power of marketing? It's an ISA that's decades old. I'm not sure where Nintendo is going in terms of power level but ARM isn't a handicap.

Also, the actual CPU architecture is largely irrelevant to porting because devs will be using middleware or, at least, higher level languages than assembly. If you write a program in standard C you can get gcc to build it for any supported architecture without changing anything. The compiler spits out a binary with the right instructions for the target. That's why it's not even a huge issue if AMD chips are in the NX console and NVidia Tegra in the handheld as long as the Application Programming Interface is consistent.

BTW, one of the major goals of Vulkan is to have a portable low level 3D API and Nintendo is onboard as a member of Khronos as are Nvidia and AMD. I think Nintendo is mindful of the need to make it relatively easy to support their hardware.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

N64 was loads more powerful than the PS1, and the Cube was right up there with the Xbox and a good bit more powerful than the PS2. It was storage design quirks that ultimately caused problems for both.

Yeah, both suffered major bottlenecks with storage and never got the third party support Sony got. Nintendo has always seen their consoles as toys and not computers. That's probably not going to change with the NX.

 

[Diffense]

Yeah, both suffered major bottlenecks with storage and never got the third party support Sony got. Nintendo has always seen their consoles as toys and not computers. That's probably not going to change with the NX.

That post is kind of ironic when the NES was actually the Famicom (Family Computer) in Japan.
BTW, the N64 was heavily marketed as a beast of a machine with Silicon Graphics technology.
The difficulties of developing for the N64's architecture actually caused them to take a more balanced approach with the GC.
(I remember reading that in an interview but I wouldn't be able to track it down right now.)

 

[Schlorgan]

Boy, I'm really glad to not be a huge Nintendo fan; either way this goes, it'll be fun to watch.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

That post is kind of ironic when the NES was actually the Famicom (Family Computer) in Japan.

And in the US it was marketed as a glorified toy with a toy robot and toy gun.

 

[Diffense]

And in the US it was marketed as a glorified toy with a toy robot and toy gun.

It wasn't quite that simple. Rob was a Trojan because after the collapse of the US videogame industry consoles were seen as a fad and retailers were reluctant to stock. Nintendo included ROB to make the NES more toylike to get around that perception.

 

[c0de]

Why is there a sudden obsession with x86. The power of marketing? It's an ISA that's decades old. I'm not sure where Nintendo is going in terms of power level but ARM isn't a handicap.

Also, the actual CPU architecture is largely irrelevant to porting because devs will be using middleware or, at least, higher level languages than assembly. If you write a program in standard C you can get gcc to build it for any supported architecture without changing anything. The compiler spits out a binary with the right instructions for the target. That's why it's not even a huge issue if AMD chips are in the NX console and NVidia Tegra in the handheld as long as the Application Programming Interface is consistent.

BTW, one of the major goals of Vulkan is to have a portable low level 3D API and Nintendo is onboard as a member of Khronos as are Nvidia and AMD. I think Nintendo is mindful of the need to make it relatively easy to support their hardware.

It's not only if a compiler is available but also how good it is. That also applies to the whole SDK, not only the compiler.
And these are topics where x86 of course has an advantage because it is old. Also Nintendo would have to make sure that they take care of different targets (mobile and console) and given their record regarding dev tools and documentation, they have to completely change everything in that case.

 

[Nanashrew]

And in the US it was marketed as a glorified toy with a toy robot and toy gun.

Because it had to be. Hope you know your history on why. Plus the gun was actually a good idea because the person who helped do this understood that the west absolutely loves their guns.

 

[MilesTeg]

If the console isnt coming til march 2017 at the earliest then imo this supposed info is highly questionable. Lots of things change. And, 7 people told me so really isnt worth anything without real sources.

 

[Rajack]

I'm sorry, but people with legitimate sources don't spout off information like this. Fake.

 

[Nanashrew]

I hope ya'll are paying attention to Osiris's post from the last page everyone quoted. Bish approved, tag and all. Tech isn't Emily's strong suit but information seems to be available to some of those who understand tech but they're staying quiet.

 

[Milly Osworth]

In the last few hours, Emily also specified on Twitter how

"Nowhere in my post talks about real in-game performance. Only raw power"

While discussing about 10k's behaviour. Just to reinforce what said already in the thread several times alongside OsirisBlack's post.

Spoiler

Dat 10k saga though

The fuck does that even mean? Can we stop giving her attention.

 

[Red Devil]

I'm confused, didn't she previously say that the alledged leaked specs were wrong but the NX specs were actually good?

 

[Nanashrew]

The fuck does that even mean? Can we stop giving her attention.

10k and Emily got into a slap fight over Twitter. 10k keeps talking real time performance being above PS4, and Emily is only talking about power on paper.

Tbh, I'm not even sure how we could judge real time performance yet, we don't know the parts or have seen the system in action.

I'm confused, didn't she previously say that the alledged leaked specs were wrong but the NX specs were actually good?

She popped the speculation bubble cause everyone was going overboard in saying the NX will be about as powerful as the NEO. She wrote that off entirely and said the specs are still good but never specified anything.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

The fuck does that even mean? Can we stop giving her attention.

It means that she's only talking about the raw power of the chips. There can be tricks built into the hardware to make the game run more efficiently and get better results out of the same power level. She does not make any claims to knowledge about the NX' s in game performance, just the processing power of the chips.

 

[Schnozberry]

The fuck does that even mean? Can we stop giving her attention.

It means that raw numbers are deceiving, especially when dealing with different GPU architectures and feature sets. Nvidia and AMD flat out calculate FLOPS differently, and real world performance can't really be ascertained by looking at the system on paper.

 

[Red Devil]

She popped the speculation bubble cause everyone was going overboard in saying the NX will be about as powerful as the NEO. She wrote that off entirely and said the specs are still good but never specified anything.

Ah alright, yeah I guess NEO levels of hardware was a little off.

It means that she's only talking about the raw power of the chips. There can be tricks built into the hardware to make the game run more efficiently and get better results out of the same power level. She does not make any claims to knowledge about the NX' s in game performance, just the processing power of the chips.

And got to see if they indeedly end up using cartridges, heh. Although I doubt that has any credence whatsoever.

 

[Peterc]

Numbers power, but in the end the games looks just the same.

I rather talking about their ui/interface and voice chat support/network support. Also what else could they bring. I also don't understand gimmicks. Every console has gimmicks. I think gimmick is a ugly word. It's better to say innovation or a new way to improve specific gameplay.

Isn't it strange emily doesn't know anything about that or even the handheld. She could also warned us about e3 and 2017 release. But we only hear about some vague specs that only higher people at Nintendo knows.

 

[Deleted member 465307]

10k and Emily got into a slap fight over Twitter. 10k keeps talking real time performance being above PS4, and Emily is only talking about power on paper.

Tbh, I'm not even sure how we could judge real time performance yet, we don't know the parts or have seen the system in action.

Presumably any comments about game performance would have to come from a developer who has tested games.

But really, jumping off your comment about judging, we can't judge anything until the console is announced or released and we start seeing games running on it. Even then, we'd probably need to wait a couple years to see what the system can do. I suppose everyone on GAF knows this, but I feel like it bears repeating that no matter how many "leaks" or rumors we get, no one will know anything for months. We can't judge anything yet. The only way I think we could make some conclusive statements is if the specs were verifiably leaked and they were identical to the 3DS or an i7+GTX 1080. Then we could probably definitively make a judgment call about how they compare to the rest of the console market. But with most of the gray area, it's just "wait and see."

It confuses me when I read posts from people who say they're now done with Nintendo or that they've decided they'll buy an NX based on this. But I guess perhaps people aren't serious.

 

[Peterc]

Presumably any comments about game performance would have to come from a developer who has tested games.

But really, jumping off your comment about judging, we can't judge anything until the console is announced or released and we start seeing games running on it. Even then, we'd probably need to wait a couple years to see what the system can do. I suppose everyone on GAF knows this, but I feel like it bears repeating that no matter how many "leaks" or rumors we get, no one will know anything for months. We can't judge anything yet. The only way I think we could make some conclusive statements is if the specs were verifiably leaked and they were identical to the 3DS or an i7+GTX 1080. Then we could probably definitively make a judgment call about how they compare to the rest of the console market. But with most of the gray area, it's just "wait and see."

It confuses me when I read posts from people who say they're now done with Nintendo or that they've decided they'll buy an NX based on this. But I guess perhaps people aren't serious.

People loves doom scenario's.

 

[PdotMichael]

Numbers power, but in the end the games looks just the same.

I rather talking about their ui/interface and voice chat support/network support. Also what else could they bring. I also don't understand gimmicks. Every console has gimmicks. I think gimmick is a ugly word. It's better to say innovation or a new way to improve specific gameplay.

Isn't it strange emily doesn't know anything about that or even the handheld. She could also warned us about e3 and 2017 release. But we only hear about some vague specs that only higher people at Nintendo knows.

It isn't.

Having a source at NTD in Redmond for example would only give her information about very specific parts of developement tools, API and hardware but nothing about marketing, business or games.

 

[Otakumegane]

Yeah I totally forgot carts.