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[Tenguman]

Conclusion to the Vulcan saga....

CAN'T FREAKEN WAIT! (never thought I'd say this about an Enterprise episode)

This season, minus the opening eps, have really be awesome so far. I love this Vulcan stuff. My only gripe is that the writers keep making Archer into some savior almost all the time (for Earth and NOW Vulcan?) but anyway -- it's been really good so far. Mature sci-fi.... which is something Trek has lost over the years.

LIVE BAKULA

 

[ManaByte]

What happened last week? I missed it.

 

[DarthWoo]

What happened last week? I missed it.

I wasn't paying attention as well as I should have but here goes:

Spoiler

The Vulcan High Command wanted to bomb the hell out of the Syranites(sp?), but couldn't while Enterprise was in orbit, so they sent ships to chase it away by any means necessary. Meanwhile, T'Pau wanted to meld with Archer to pull Surak's katra out, but Surak declined the offer. As the bombing began, Archer realized that he knew where to find some really important artifact, so he went in to get it. T'Pau and T'Pol followed him, and they got it. As they were leaving the now-devastated area, they find T'Pol's mother, who has been mortally wounded and dies. Can't remember if she said anything important before she died though.

 

[BigJonsson]

I just saw the episode...

Awesome conclusion to the story arc...now Enterprise just needs to get some fucking shields

Spoiler

ROMULANS WERE CONTROLLING THE HIGH COMMAND?!?!?! HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!

 

[Tenguman]

Spoiler

The Vulcans are also on their way to invade Andoria (they think they have a Xindi weapon) and Enterprise is on its way to stop them (Earth has a treaty with both of them IIRC)

 

[ManaByte]

I just saw the episode...

Awesome conclusion to the story arc...now Enterprise just needs to get some fucking shields

Spoiler

ROMULANS WERE CONTROLLING THE HIGH COMMAND?!?!?! HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!

Well, they do need to trigger the interstellar war somehow...if they are going to stick with established Trek history.

 

[BigJonsson]

But still

HOLY SHIT

 

[Saturnman]

War-bent Vulcan high command with flimsy evidence = Bush administration.

 

[COCKLES]

Good story arc.

Shame it's looking like it's the last season. If only it had been like this from the start.

Crap CGI battles though. Ship battles seem to get worse and worse in each Trek. Boring CGI models, undynamically blasting each other up. I want a return to the epic battles of Wrath of Khan, with those awesome torpedo effects and explosions.

 

[DarthWoo]

Good story arc.

Shame it's looking like it's the last season. If only it had been like this from the start.

Crap CGI battles though. Ship battles seem to get worse and worse in each Trek. Boring CGI models, undynamically blasting each other up. I want a return to the epic battles of Wrath of Khan, with those awesome torpedo effects and explosions.

I'd say Babylon 5 has had the very best CGI battles of any sci-fi shows of the past decade. DS9 had some impressive fleet engagements, but only a couple and towards the end. Even then, the ships seemed a little bit model-ish when they were exploding, although I don't know if DS9 used CG or models.

 

[Mashing]

Did you see last season's ship battles Cockles? They were pretty damn good CGI wise I thought. This season is obviously more low budget.

Anyway, about the episode. This episode could have been complete crap (but it wasn't) and I'd still love this episode purely based on the ending. What a fantastic ending.

 

[Saturnman]

I'd say Babylon 5 has had the very best CGI battles of any sci-fi shows of the past decade. DS9 had some impressive fleet engagements, but only a couple and towards the end. Even then, the ships seemed a little bit model-ish when they were exploding, although I don't know if DS9 used CG or models.

I can't be sure early on (nothing impressive anyway), but in the Dominion war, it was definitely CG. This was confirmed at one point and it's the only way they could have gotten some of the shots they had

 

[LakeEarth]

War-bent Vulcan high command with flimsy evidence = Bush administration.

Yeah, about a "weapon" that really doesn't exist. Boy they were transparent eh.

 

[BigJonsson]

Romulans are the best characters in Star Trek

 

[ManaByte]

I'd say Babylon 5 has had the very best CGI battles of any sci-fi shows of the past decade. DS9 had some impressive fleet engagements, but only a couple and towards the end. Even then, the ships seemed a little bit model-ish when they were exploding, although I don't know if DS9 used CG or models.

They've been using CG ship models since early DS9 seasons. The station was a model though.

 

[DarthWoo]

They've been using CG ship models since early DS9 seasons. The station was a model though.

Hmm...for some reason a lot of the ship destruction still seemed more modelish, especially in the cases where the Jem'hadar crashed their ships into other ships. Maybe they were going for that effect.

 

[Phoenix]

AWESOM-O! If only they had done this from the beginning instead of the 3 prior seasons of 90% garbage.

 

[G4life98]

ds9 (klingon conflict and dominion war) and farscape had some of the best space battle effects imo.

 

[Phoenix]

ds9 (klingon conflict and dominion war) and farscape had some of the best space battle effects imo.

The klingon conflict in DS9 still ranks as one of my all time bests. Klingon boarding parties transporting into the command center during operations? Owns.

 

[Cafeman]

Just watched it. Question:

Spoiler

How did you know it was a Romulan, in that last scene. I was thinking "what? Who is that?" I can't tell Romulans and Vulcans apart.

 

[Saturnman]

Costume and forehead ridges.

And they want reunification with the Vulcans. Common Trek theme.

 

[explodet]

The klingon conflict in DS9 still ranks as one of my all time bests. Klingon boarding parties transporting into the command center during operations? Owns.

But then they got their asses kicked.

That was a great episode, though. All the principle Klingon characters were dead on.

And to make this post slightly on-topic, I'm going to go find yesterday's Enterprise episode and watch it, it sounds great.

 

[Saturnman]

Nostalgia aside, I don't think TNG has aged well for the most part.

 

[ShadowRed]

Hmm...for some reason a lot of the ship destruction still seemed more modelish, especially in the cases where the Jem'hadar crashed their ships into other ships. Maybe they were going for that effect.

Maybe because it was a model.

Nostalgia aside, I don't think TNG has aged well for the most part.

I disagree I watched an episode the other day for the first time in a long time and I was completely shocked with the way the characters and story progressed in relation to say Enterprise and other Trek shows. Picard's log entres where better than the last season of Enterprise.

 

[Phoenix]

Just watched it. Question:

Spoiler

How did you know it was a Romulan, in that last scene. I was thinking "what? Who is that?" I can't tell Romulans and Vulcans apart.

Spoiler

1) He was wearing a traditional Romulan uniform. Trekkies could point it out a mile away

2) He wanted reunification with the Vulcans - that's a longtime goal of the Romulans.

 

[Phoenix]

Nostalgia aside, I don't think TNG has aged well for the most part.

I don't agree with this. TNG is still an excellent show even when I watch it in reruns all these years later.

 

[Vgamer]

I disagree I watched an episode the other day for the first time in a long time and I was completely shocked with the way the characters and story progressed in relation to say Enterprise and other Trek shows. Picard's log entres where better than the last season of Enterprise.

I agree I think TNG has aged rather well. Other then some special effects mostly the ship battles and the cheesy planet sets of Season 1 the show looks like it could have been made today which is impressive considering some episodes are 15 years old now if you can believe it!! Man that makes me feel old thinking how long ago TNG first came out!

 

[Phoenix]

I agree I think TNG has aged rather well. Other then some special effects mostly the ship battles the show looks like it could have been made today which is impressive considering some episodes are 15 years old now if you can believe it!! Man that makes me feel old thinking how long ago TNG first came out!

I know... and I was in high school then. Makes me feel really old

 

[BojTrek]

It has aged well... I love TNG to this day... I would own every season on DVD if they were priced about $59 here in the US...

Oh by the way... you feel old? I was in college when TNG came out... DAMN!

 

[God's Hand]

I never really watched TNG because back then, I thought it was for nerds. And I think I'm still right about that today, so I won't watch it. Deep Space Nine is the best show to ever air on television. This 4th season of Enterprise is insanely good.

 

[Vgamer]

I never really watched TNG because back then, I thought it was for nerds. And I think I'm still right about that today, so I won't watch it.

Only For nerds? You do realize that TNG was the most mainstream show of all the modern Treks and averaged ratings in the 10s of millions each episode right??

 

[Saturnman]

I don't agree with this. TNG is still an excellent show even when I watch it in reruns all these years later.

Have fun with the grumpy captain who doesn't like children, yet regrets not starting a family of his own.

Enjoy the tourment that engulfs Riker over that promotion.

Stay tuned whenever it feels Wesley Crusher will be the main focus of an episode.

Season 1 is full of gems like that African planet or that other planet where women run things.

Troy's empathic powers are always put to good use.

Technobabble originated on TNG, that means it must be good thing.

Holodeck malfunctions = guaranteed fun.

Whether it is Data's quest to be human, Data's kid or taming a borg kid, it's never sappy enough.

Don't miss those episiodes with Data's evil twin: Lore.

Oh and when Worf breaks his spinal cord: greatest TV moment in history.


P.S. I like TNG, but those are definite plot weaknesses which do not age well.

 

[Vgamer]

Most of your complaints seem to be from season 1. How about you just dont watch season 1?

Have fun with the grumpy captain who doesn't like children, yet regrets not starting a family of his own.

-He was really only grumpy like that in Season 1

Enjoy the tourment that engulfs Riker over that promotion.

-Only mentioned in a few episodes maybe 5 times total in the 7 years of the show. Not exactly something that would make most people dislike the show.

Stay tuned whenever it feels Wesley Crusher will be the main focus of an episode.

-He was pretty much gone by season 4 escept for the occasional episode in later seasons.

Season 1 is full of gems like that African planet or that other planet where women run things.

-Another season 1 complaint since you hate it so much just skip that season.

Troy's empathic powers are always put to good use.

-this is true she was woefully misused for alot of the show but I did not find her to annoying except for the early seasons.

Technobabble originated on TNG, that means it must be good thing.

-Ya there is alot of it but not as bad as on Voyager

Holodeck malfunctions = guaranteed fun.

-How many times was there a Holodeck accident in TNG? Id bet you can count them on one hand. And dont forget TNG was the first Trek show to have Holodecks so it was still new then. Hardly a reason to diss the show.

Whether it is Data's quest to be human, Data's kid or taming a borg kid, it's never sappy enough.

-I thought Data was one of the best parts of TNG. Sure he got annoying in some of the movies but in the show he was great.

Don't miss those episiodes with Data's evil twin: Lore.

-Lore is one of the best Villains in all Trek IMO

 

[Mega Man's Electric Sheep]

"Stay tuned whenever it feels Wesley Crusher will be the main focus of an episode."

B-b-but...Wesley saved them all from....THE GAME! :lol :lol :lol

 

[ManaByte]

Enjoy the tourment that engulfs Riker over that promotion.

Funny story about that.

Riker passed up/missed three promotions to Captain before Best of Both Worlds. Before that episode aired, Frakes was at a convention and a fan asked him why he hasn't been promoted to Captain yet. He replied, "Bad writing." So, in Best of Both Worlds the writers got revenge on him by blowing up the three ships he would've been Captain of. The ships Shelby names after Wolf 359 are the ones that were offered to Riker earlier in the series.

 

[Phoenix]

Have fun with the grumpy captain who doesn't like children, yet regrets not starting a family of his own.

Enjoy the tourment that engulfs Riker over that promotion.

Stay tuned whenever it feels Wesley Crusher will be the main focus of an episode.

Season 1 is full of gems like that African planet or that other planet where women run things.

Troy's empathic powers are always put to good use.

Technobabble originated on TNG, that means it must be good thing.

Holodeck malfunctions = guaranteed fun.

Whether it is Data's quest to be human, Data's kid or taming a borg kid, it's never sappy enough.

Don't miss those episiodes with Data's evil twin: Lore.

Oh and when Worf breaks his spinal cord: greatest TV moment in history.


P.S. I like TNG, but those are definite plot weaknesses which do not age well.

SO what you're saying is that any show that has plot weaknesses is a show which did not age well? That does not fempute

 

[Saturnman]

Oh no he wasn't. Wesley Crusher came back several times later afterwards. His efforts to bond with the captain after crash-landing on some desert, THE GAME, his screw-ups at the academy, his passage to another plane of existence.

Yep, all after season 4.

 

[ManaByte]

-He was pretty much gone by season 4.

"So then, Will left the show to pursue a movie career..."

Oh no he wasn't. Wesley Crusher came back several times later afterwards. His efforts to bond with the captain after crash-landing on some desert, THE GAME, his screw-ups at the academy, his passage to another plane of existence.

Yep, all after season 4.

The episode where Wes tries to "bond with the captain after crash-landing on some desert" was in season 4. In fact, it was pretty early on in it. The episode was Final Mission and was the 9th episode of the season. It was also his last episode.

The Game was a Season 5 guest star and featured Ashley Judd. You cannot hate that episode.

The academy screw-up episode was in Season 6, and the one where he became a Traveller was in Season 7 when they were trying to wrap up every character's storylines before the end of the series.

 

[explodet]

B-b-but...Wesley saved them all from....THE GAME! :lol :lol :lol

The only reason I can watch that episode is because Ashley Judd is in it.

 

[Saturnman]

SO what you're saying is that any show that has plot weaknesses is a show which did not age well? That does not fempute

Listen, having an evil twin brother is not the most original plot twist in sci-fi TV.

Funny story about that.

Riker passed up/missed three promotions to Captain before Best of Both Worlds. Before that episode aired, Frakes was at a convention and a fan asked him why he hasn't been promoted to Captain yet. He replied, "Bad writing." So, in Best of Both Worlds the writers got revenge on him by blowing up the three ships he would've been Captain of. The ships Shelby names after Wolf 359 are the ones that were offered to Riker earlier in the series.

:lol

 

[Vgamer]

Oh no he wasn't. Wesley Crusher came back several times later afterwards. His efforts to bond with the captain after crash-landing on some desert, THE GAME, his screw-ups at the academy, his passage to another plane of existence.

Yep, all after season 4.

Ya he did but he wasnt a regular cast member at that point. And most of his later appearences where really not that bad. But some people just hate Wesley period no matter what which is fair cuz he was pretty annoying and a know it all brat early on One of my favorite early season scenes is when Picard yells shut up wesley then dr crusher says you cant talk to him like that then Wesley says something and she is like Shut Up Wesley. :lol

 

[God's Hand]

10 million viewers an episode? I don't believe that, but please prove it. Also, the problem I had is that the only people I knew who watched TNG were nerds beyond the definition I was used to in the early 90s. It was scary.

 

[Saturnman]

10 million viewers an episode? I don't believe that, but please prove it. Also, the problem I had is that the only people I knew who watched TNG were nerds beyond the definition I was used to in the early 90s. It was scary.

Alberta is nerd country. You've just re-confirmed all our suspicions.

 

[ManaByte]

Speaking of Wesley, anyone remember when Nemesis was coming out and first they called him to tell him that they cut his scenes out of the movie and then they invited him to the Paramount screening for the janitors (and not the cast)?
:lol

Wil gets the call from Rick Berman about his scenes being cut out.

Have fun with the janitors!

I'm sitting here, about to write a little entry about it, when my phone rings. It's a friend of mine, asking me if I'm going to the Star Trek X screening.

"Yeah, on Wednesday," I tell him.

"No, it's tonight," he tells me.

"Tonight? At Paramount?"

"No, it's in Westwood, tonight," he tells me, "I just talked with Marina about it."

Oh no.

That feeling I have gotten so many times before, when I was the only cast member not asked up on stage at the 25th anniversary party, when I was the only cast member not recognized at the screening of "All Good Things..." begins to well up. I feel a little sick.

He wouldn't do this to me, right? Not now, not after the conversations we had when I was working on the movie, not since the phone call informing me of the cut. This must be a mistake. Past is the past, right? We're cool now. There is no way he'd exclude me from this.

But he did.

He did it to me again.

I want to cry.

I tell my friend that I have to go, and hang up the phone.

I sit there alone and cold in the kitchen. I can hear Ryan watching Sabrina The Teenage Witch in the living room.

I can't believe this is happening to me. When Rick told me that my scenes were cut, he assured me that I'd still be invited to the premiere, and that he'd see me there. I was excited to see all my friends again, and share in those moments with them. Be a part of what will really be the final mission.

It turns out that the screening I was invited to will be at Paramount on Wednesday, and pretty much anyone who works at Paramount can attend. It's not the premiere, and none of the cast are going. There's really nothing special about it.

I seriously, desperately hope that this was just an oversight. I desperately hope that this is totally out of Rick's hands, and that he'll tell me that he's sorry if it ever comes up. I desperately hope this isn't personal. I want so badly to believe that it isn't. It sucks to be overlooked, but it sucks less than if I'd been intentionally not invited.

It sure fits a pattern though, huh?

I just -- I don't know what to do. I don't even know how to feel anymore.

But I'll go with hurt for now.

Really, really fucking hurt.

 

[ShadowRed]

10 million viewers an episode? I don't believe that, but please prove it. Also, the problem I had is that the only people I knew who watched TNG were nerds beyond the definition I was used to in the early 90s. It was scary.

Oh wait you didn't like the show, because you didn't like the people watching the show. Great thinking. Stick to watching sports and porno, you stud.

 

[Vgamer]

10 million viewers an episode? I don't believe that, but please prove it.

Here is the average ratings for every year of TNG. Remember these are just the average ratings for the whole season. Many weeks the show would have ratings even higher then this depending on the week and the episode.


"First off, here's a rundown of the approximate number of homes tuned into Trek every year since TNG premiered in 1987

Fall 1987 - Spring 1988: 8.55 Million
Fall 1988 - Spring 1989: 9.14 Million
Fall 1989 - Spring 1990: 9.77 Million
Fall 1990 - Spring 1991: 10.58 Million
Fall 1991 - Spring 1992: 11.50 Million
Fall 1992 - Spring 1993: 10.83 Million
Fall 1993 - Spring 1994: 9.78 Million "


http://www.treknation.com/articles/ratings_history.shtml

 

[Mega Man's Electric Sheep]

TNG was the #1 show in syndication in its day. It was huge, and as mainstream as Trek gets.

But the much less mainstream DS9 was much better.

 

[ManDudeChild]

TNG was the #1 show in syndication in its day. It was huge, and as mainstream as Trek gets.

But the much less mainstream DS9 was much better.

Although, imo, DS9 turned out to be the better show when episodes were first viewed (dominion war in particular), I think TNG really did age better. I mean I can watch episodes of TNG over and over, and not get annoyed. With DS9, despite the better writing in the latter half of the series, that isn't so.

 

[ManaByte]

TNG was the #1 show in syndication in its day. It was huge, and as mainstream as Trek gets.

But the much less mainstream DS9 was much better.

TNG actually did better than most network shows as well.

 

[Mega Man's Electric Sheep]

For me, the ACTING on TNG aged horribly. Troi was alright when I first watched it, but now I roll my eyes whenever I catch a rerun because she is a dreadful actress. Riker is doing a passable but worse Kirk impression much of the time, Geordi is boring as all fuck at his line delivery, Picard the frenchman with the british accent never bothered me, but now seems dumber, Dr. Crusher is quite blah despite having one of the best episodes (where she is in the bubble). The acting for me is sub par for most of the characters, and this contributes to a feeling of genericism.

On DS9, a lot of the appeal for me was the storyline and finding out what happened, so I can see it losing some of its lustre upon repeated viewings. But DS9's most annoying regular character, Quark, had many more episodes where he was quite good than Troi ever did. The acting on DS9 was just better.