Epic: Xbox silence at GDC isn't the full picture
- Thread starter shinobi602
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REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Your links are not working. Are they about Durango or the difficulties with Xbox 360 indie development and ecosystem? Because we know everything about the latter, but that's not at all what's being discussed here.
Galacticos
Banned
The 720 supposedly has more indie devs working for it? Weird. The indie devs that have been so positively vocal about the PS4 have been, to my knowledge, a good procentage of the "known" indie devs.
That said, i don't often buy indie games and i'm not excited or whatever for #teamIndie - i'm excited for what guys like Naughty Dog, Rockstar, SSM, Avalanche, Guerrilla, Starbreeze and DICE can do with the PS4.
That said, i don't often buy indie games and i'm not excited or whatever for #teamIndie - i'm excited for what guys like Naughty Dog, Rockstar, SSM, Avalanche, Guerrilla, Starbreeze and DICE can do with the PS4.
I imagine they're just waiting until they have everything they need for the reveal ready - probably most notably waiting on games to be in a presentable state.
yes they where.
i know its not the point of this discusion but it seems people have short memories here
we have a thread here where many indie developers are angry at ms ecosystem and that they apparently don't care about them.
yet now people here are proclaiming that everything is all sugar and rainbows ?
Anyway. sorry if off- topic
I doubt it.
EA wants all their games to be multiplatform blockbusters. Remember DS2 selling close to 4 million isn't enough to then. The easiest way to sell the numbers they are expecting out of their franchises is by being multiplatform. And historically EA always tried to get their games on as many viable platforms as possible barring some rare occurrences.
That is one of the biggest reasons you didn't see BF4 on the PS4 reveal. Now that the game is already announced EA/Dice might even premiere the console version on the Durango event to get even more exposure and media coverage (like Bungie did with the PS4), but I sincerely don't believe any big EA IP to be exclusive. Can't see new IPs being exclusive either.
Activision is on the same boat. They don't need an exclusivity deal at all. They wouldn't profit from it. The best option for their major IPs is being multiplatform too.
Watch Diablo 3 being announced for the Durango sooner than later.
I could see Epic doing a MS exclusive game on the other hand. But frankly the situation now is completely different from when they signed the GOW deal. They wouldn't benefit as much. Unreal is already the biggest console middleware engine, and frankly besides the People Can Fly guys who would helm the game? They are bleeding talent lately. Epic seems to be slowly moving away from huge AAAA games, focusing on smaller ones and developing the Unreal Engine. We'll see.
I think Crytek could benefit in some way from an exclusive deal. They are more or less in the same situation Epic was in the beginning of the current gen, they want to sell Cryengine to devs. Except they are way bigger than Epic was, and they are more well know to the console audience than Epic was before this gen began. They already have Ryse in the oven. A huge AAAA game banked by MS to show off what their engine can do to the masses could be a good option. And they wouldn't have to pay a dime to develop it.
Considering Bethesda close relationship with MS I guess they could do an exclusive, but they don't really need it. The Elder Scrolls and Fallout are huge IPs, they would profit more from getting the games to as many people as they can than from going exclusive. Can't see Zenimax content on being a second party publisher to be honest considering their latest moves and the devs. they bought.
Timed exclusives and DLC (even completely exclusive DLC unfortunately) on the other hand is a given. It's already happening. The question is just who each developer and publisher is siding with. Bungie already sided with Sony on Destiny exclusive DLC, I'm really curious to what EA and Acti will do with BF4 and COD DLC.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
I missed this.
You got a link to this survey? Because if true, that blows the theory that MS is not nurturing relationships with Durango devs out the water.
I'm skeptical though.
I think he is mentioning this survey:
And if he is, he is making a rather weak if not completely wrong argument. MS is doing as bad as Sony. A 0,45% difference? Really man? =D
The only thing of notice in that survey is that indie devs. are far more interested in developing mobile games and focusing on tablets, smartphones and PCs instead of consoles.
Finally the survey is about gauging indie devs interest. Not about actual games in development.
If he is talking about another survey then I would like a link as well because I haven't seen it.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
I think he is mentioning this survey:
And if he is, he is making a rather weak if not completely wrong argument. MS is doing as bad as Sony. A 0,45% difference? Really man? =D
The only thing of notice in that survey is that indie devs. are far more interested in developing mobile games and focusing on tablets, smartphones and PCs instead of consoles.
Finally the survey is about gauging indie devs interest. Not about actual games development.
If he is talking about another survey then I would like a link as well because I haven't seen it.
No, it's precisely that survey, but it seems you haven't seen it either. It's not about indie developers' interest, every attendant of this year's and last year's GDC - indie or otherwise - was asked which platform they plan on releasing their next game on, and these are the results.
But you're right about one thing, everyone is losing to mobile phone development, and web browsers are far ahead of all consoles, too. That's not so surprising, considering the sheer amount of trash that gets released on those platforms, but it's still significant from the business perspective, and all console makers would do well to address that. Sony's made some positive first steps, but we'll see how successful they'll be in the long run, and of course, Microsoft hasn't even announced their plans yet.
iceatcs
Junior Member
If about 0.5% is crazy big deal, then this is it.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
I think he is mentioning this survey:
And if he is, he is making a rather weak if not completely wrong argument. MS is doing as bad as Sony. A 0,45% difference? Really man? =D
The only thing of notice in that survey is that indie devs. are far more interested in developing mobile games and focusing on tablets, smartphones and PCs instead of consoles.
Finally the survey is about gauging indie devs interest. Not about actual games in development.
If he is talking about another survey then I would like a link as well because I haven't seen it.
Thanks.
If this is just developer interest, it just proves that MS and Sony need to continue to make their platforms more attractive to indie devs.
Starbreeze doesn't make their own engine anymore. I think they've licensed UE.
I doubt that. I think its just what it is. They haven't showed the hardware but they are still speaking to developers there without all the flair. We will get an announcement like always but not sure when.
I think he is mentioning this survey:
And if he is, he is making a rather weak if not completely wrong argument. MS is doing as bad as Sony. A 0,45% difference? Really man? =D
The only thing of notice in that survey is that indie devs. are far more interested in developing mobile games and focusing on tablets, smartphones and PCs instead of consoles.
Finally the survey is about gauging indie devs interest. Not about actual games in development.
If he is talking about another survey then I would like a link as well because I haven't seen it.
More proof that GDC didn't hurt MS at all. In fact The survey is showing that out of all the developers polled, more were developing for the Next box than the PS4.
But out of all the consoles this gen, it's the 360 that still the lead console for the amount of development. This mainly could be attributed to XBLA as well.
Your post doesn't make any damn sense with folks knowing what GDC is. Its like you're writing a contradictory piece with a closing of damage control.
Honestly, I don't understand how Sony fans here are trying to paint a picture of MS struggling for developer support.
We all need to remind each other that Microsoft have the bigger momentum going in the next generation. They've always been developer friendly and that won't change.
We all need to remind each other that Microsoft have the bigger momentum going in the next generation. They've always been developer friendly and that won't change.
Its going to be delicious.
There is nothing in your link stating that every participant on GDC took part in that survey.
And frankly, as you said it's about indie devs plans right? Plans that may or may not come to fruition. Happens all the time. It's not a survey about games they are actually developing right now as you falsely implied. And even if it was, a 0.46% difference? You're really reaching there pal! Lol...
How many of those miserable 11.34% of indies interested in the Durango, or 10.82% interested in the PS4 are actually developing games for those platforms at this moment? I bet not too many.
How many of those indies interested in the Durango are going to back away from supporting the platform because of the well know draconian MS rules? It happened before, and it's happening now. Sony is changing their stupid system, MS would do well to follow then.
It's funny that you actually concede that I am right about the most important conclusion this survey shows us, it's even more amusing that you completely failed to mention that conclusion in your original post. Spinning things too hard buddy? There is nothing positive to both hardware makers on that survey. MS and Sony are practically even when competing against each other and losing badly to a lot of other platforms.
The difference is that Sony is actively going after then (indies). We don't know for sure if or how MS is doing it besides promoting parties.
No matter how you try to paint it, the truth is that this survey offers little to support your claim that "there are more developers developing for Durango than any other next gen console."
You don't know that. We don't know that. The survey is about indies, not developers in general. It's about plans, not actual development happening right now.
From your own link:
Some indies are excited, interested. They are making plans. Doesn't mean they are doing something concrete like developing games for the PS4 or the Durango at the moment.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
No, I never said that, why are you making things up? I specifically said that it's not just about indie developers' plans, it's all developers, indie or otherwise.
Er, what? Do you even know what this thread is about,pal? It's about Rein saying that just because developers have been publicly lambasting their love for PS4, it doesn't mean that Microsoft's next platform won't enjoy just as much support or that their approach is any less developer-centric than Sony's. Some people have called that damage control, and there are many posts in various threads speculating about developers not being all that interested in Durango. I just pointed out that's not the case since, according to actual facts we do have, Durango seems to enjoy just as much developer support if not more.
Wat. I'll just... Forget it. Wow.
That was a pre-show survey with a very slight margin in favor of MS.
At a U.S. based tradeshow, for the current U.S. market leader's next console, that traditionally had the edge with smaller developers. That edge being reduced to 0.4% pre-GDC isn't a great sign in and of itself.
However, that also obviously gives us zero indication as to what effect GDC might have had on that as well.
That 0.4% subset might have been only targeting Durango because they originally thought the PS4 would be as much a PITA to program for as the PS3, and Sony used GDC to win them over, further closing the gap. Wouldn't that account for real tangible damage to MS?
Also, lets not forget that the poll was conducted from people who either attended last year's conference or this one, and MS has recently been hiring tons of U.S. based developers to backfill all the first party jobs they closed this past generation. Chances are a lot of developers who went to last GDC LOOKING for work are now working for MS and would obviously check the Durango box alone.
A poll like this doesn't have as much of a geographical bias as a similar poll done at TGS would have for Sony, but it still has a legitimate geographical skew since MS' staff and partners are disproportionately weighted in North America.
As to the OP: Mark Rein saying MS is working with devs privately has always been assumed. But unless you think MS has a crystal ball and can foresee which lower tier/indie devs are ready to break out without even talking to them then there is real opportunity cost attached to not being more open with the Durango at GDC, when those developers could be sold on the system. As it is Sony's the one able to put out a strong sales pitch while MS remains silent.
It's really best to forget unless you embarrass yourself even more trying to spin this thing.
People might get dizzy.
statham
Member
.52%
Heh...why stealth edit the original post? You were not wrong, and it was actually funny.
pharmboy044
Member
Exactly. I think a very handful of very small devs not having the best experience on XBLA is skewing some people's opinion but it shouldn't. Microsoft has always had the best dev tools and that's not going to change in the next gen.
Regarding publishing policies is where Sony is taking a more dev friendly approach and hopefully Microsoft does the same.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
It's hard to take anyone's opinion without a grain of salt these days.
Epic has been a MSFT ally for a while so statements can be interpreted as good or bad as far as I'm concerned. MSFT needs to reveal it already and be done with it.
Epic has been a MSFT ally for a while so statements can be interpreted as good or bad as far as I'm concerned. MSFT needs to reveal it already and be done with it.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Did you really just use the word 'momentum' when talking about next gen transitions. I thought this was a Gaf joke did not know people actually said it.
Regarding your last sentence there have been many devs complaining about MS XBL practices. Team Meat guy was talking about it on a podcast or something.
Mikey Jr.
Member
MS definitely has something up their sleeve. No doubt about that. Whether it's Earth shattering or not is hard to say.
I TRULY do not see AAA third party games going exclusive. Next generation is going to see even smaller returns if we are to believe analysts, so making exclusives seems detrimental.
What I think we'll see is exclusive DLC, so both systems buy the games, but the platform holder with the DLC will get more sales of those games, possibly solidifying that platform as THE platform for that series.
Also, we'll probably see more exclusive Indie games. This won't happen, but what if Mojang announced that Minecraft 2 would be exclusive to Durango and PC? That would be pretty big me thinks.
I TRULY do not see AAA third party games going exclusive. Next generation is going to see even smaller returns if we are to believe analysts, so making exclusives seems detrimental.
What I think we'll see is exclusive DLC, so both systems buy the games, but the platform holder with the DLC will get more sales of those games, possibly solidifying that platform as THE platform for that series.
Also, we'll probably see more exclusive Indie games. This won't happen, but what if Mojang announced that Minecraft 2 would be exclusive to Durango and PC? That would be pretty big me thinks.
It's kind of hard to decipher his post, but I think he was referring to the 360's sales, in NA anyway, that statement could have worked.
Did you really just use the word 'momentum' when talking about next gen transitions. I thought this was a Gaf joke did not know people actually said it.
Regarding your last sentence there have been many devs complaining about MS XBL practices. Team Meat guy was talking about it on a podcast or something.
and MS has always offered easier development tools, dating back to the original XBOX. Developers are now commending Sony for their only in relation to what they used to offer in the past. (Cell? EE? anyone?)
The requirements MS has for XBL could be more lenient, but that doesn't make the console any less developer friendly. All three harware vendors have certain requirements for their Network services.
I think no one sane would argue against the bolded part. But the following is not really fair.
I mean, how could devs not compare it to what was available first?
Granted developing for the PS3 is still far more difficult than doing the same for the 360, but it is now more than ever an issue of hardware design than an issue of the quality of available tools.
Vita completely eliminated that issue for example.
Sony development tools are exponentially better now than they were a few years ago.
And considering the way they are approaching the PS4 I think that (development tools) will be absolutely a non issue next gen.
Both Sony and MS will have great tools.
TheLegendary
Member
Miles Quaritch
Member
I wonder how much of that is down to the pressure they've felt from Microsoft this generation?
Is he saying Epic attacked the PS4 with a tech demo?
A new kind of warfare!
So what?
This doesn't change a thing of what I have said in the post you quoted.
And just to clear up, what you have said is not true either. What you're referencing to is the documentation that comes with the development tools, not the tools themselves. Dev tools are dev tools. Sony docs were not that good either, but they got better as well.
Or do you really believe anyone develops games using only books? Lol!
Doug Heffernan
Member
I agree.
Especially since atmosphere and setting is a big player in Alan Wake.
Remedy has the potential to blow some minds with their next gen lighting and particle effects.
Syphon Filter
Member
Alan Wake is not a showstopper. I want Perfect Dark 2. Do you guys think Crackdown 3 will happen?
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
Diablo isnt exclusive to sony anyway blizzard said in interview when questioned about that they have no comment about it right now so yea.
ChosenPredator
Banned
I hope phantom dust 2 will happen more then crackdown 3 D - :
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Eventually, yes, just not necessarily in the launch period.
But Alan Wake 2 would be the ultimate wet dream for me. Well, that and Too Human 2, but unfortunately, that one's not happening.
Brofist.png
They already have the guys in place making Crimson Dragon. Love for PD 2 to be their next project.
Sounds like a baseless statement.
Baconsammy
Banned
Isn't remotely baseless. The announcements are in the US where Microsoft owns Sony. Even if Microsoft announces a dog turd, it'll overshadow Sony. People will care more about how bad the dog turd is than how good whatever Sony showed was. If Sony ever manages to reverse their fortunes, that may change. But for right now Sony is just that company that squandered their music, gaming, TV, and computer hardware business advantages.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Announcing a console isn't a territorial event. It's a global one.
Why are you treating their unveiling as if it's an NPD figure?
Sony's event was one of the most watched streaming events, and the most watched youtube video of february.
Not saying Microsoft can't make a big splash at theirs, but to suggest Microsoft is just DOMINATING Sony on mindshare is complete nonsense when the consoles are basically even on global sales, and that's with one competitor not being on the market as long.
SniperHunter
Banned
This pretty much confirms Epic is working on a Durango exclusive ip.
Marlow Briggs == Samaritan.
Last time I saw the PS4 video on Youtube it was over 26M views.
Gears of War 4 as a possible launch title for Durango and showcasing the true graphical prowess of the hardware would sure be awesome.
I think we overestimate the Sony announcement (regardless of Youtube numbers)
Average consumers get their game news from friends or mainstream news, not gaming sites. It got some news but their mistake IMO was to announce a bit prematurely, they were not ready. I really saw it as a pre-emptive strike on Ms and a way to quiet the leak about them only having 4GB of RAM while 720 had double that. they felt they could not keep quiet. (which IMO was a mistake) I think a proper reveal closer to E3 saying the same thing with services and hardware ready for prime time would have been the megaton.
People like to see hardware. News reports like to show pictures, with just the controller sure they got some press but when Ms does their reveal up right as a full blown PR reveal with a physical box, price and services that will be ready to roll out of the box, they will make a huge news splash comparatively. *in NA especially
Average consumers get their game news from friends or mainstream news, not gaming sites. It got some news but their mistake IMO was to announce a bit prematurely, they were not ready. I really saw it as a pre-emptive strike on Ms and a way to quiet the leak about them only having 4GB of RAM while 720 had double that. they felt they could not keep quiet. (which IMO was a mistake) I think a proper reveal closer to E3 saying the same thing with services and hardware ready for prime time would have been the megaton.
People like to see hardware. News reports like to show pictures, with just the controller sure they got some press but when Ms does their reveal up right as a full blown PR reveal with a physical box, price and services that will be ready to roll out of the box, they will make a huge news splash comparatively. *in NA especially