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ESPN: Blizzard having trouble recruiting for Overwatch League due to high cost
- Thread starter ZeroGravity
- Start date
Talking about this, how CS:GO tournaments work? Or back in the day, Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament?
It needs a better spectator mode. I had assumed Overwatch League would bring one with it.
Cut this price down, spend some time/money on refining the watching experience, and this'll be huge.
Come on Blizz. Regional teams with a centralized league is such a cool idea and something e-sports could benefit from overall.
lol an fps games is way easier to follow than a moba.
Yeah im totally down for regional teams. Id love to root for a Texas team if they got one.
But yeah, spectator mode needs a re-work. Hoping that comes with the big anniversary update coming up in a few days.
It needs a better spectator experience.
I agree with you, though. Saying it'll never be spectator friendly is ignorant.
Overwatch is just not a spectator friendly game similar to something like Splatoon. CS:GO is a completely different beast - it's one of the most accessible games to watch and spectate because it is extremely slow for a FPS, teammates die as the round progress which results in 3v3, 2v2, 1v1, etc. situations and the game is just very simple and intuitive.
To understand? Maybe. (Overwatch less so) To spectate? No.
Depends on what your definition of following is.
Is it easier to make out individual skilled play? Yes. Is it easier to differentiate between the characters? Yes.
But the constantly jumping camera and complexity of ability control from the camera (an ability in League/Dota is always going to look the same, Overwatch requires such clarity from all angles) make it very difficult to follow, especially when you throw in things like hero abilities and such. CS:GO and the like are simpler and cleaner to watch. Overwatch has the downsides of a MOBA with none of the advantages. Could it get there? Maybe. But as it stands now, and what we've seen, no way Jose.
Due to their pace and the isometric perspective MOBA's are actually pretty easy to follow.
The rules might be arcane but two teams on a big field is the typical setup of the vast majority of real spectator sports. If you have a good commentator you can also easily follow what's going on even without understanding all the rules.
It's why RTS's where the most sucessful e-sport in their time and it's why MOBA's are now.
There's a lot of challenges to make spectating an fps a good experience. Especially for team games like counter strike and Overwatch. You might see good Headshots, but the flow of the match? team strategies, the movement? Way harder to show. And way more knowledge required from the viewers if it's all shown from individual players perspective.
Hari Seldon
Member
I have my doubts that no matter what they do I would ever sit down and watch a game of Overwatch, or any fast paced FPS. I think it would require your full attention, like watching a hockey or basketball game. Slower games like MOBAs or HS allow you to dual monitor a game while viewing a stream. I can never see myself watching a stream exclusively, unless maybe some highly entertaining celebrity was playing or something, like Bill Burr.
In other words, at no point in my life do I see myself choosing to sit on the couch and watch someone play video games rather than watch a movie or TV show. Streaming is only something I do while playing a game, and therefore a fast paced game like Overwatch is automatically out. If I was somehow aspiring to be in the competitive scene myself, maybe, but I'm way too old for that shit. I have extreme doubts that esports will ever be something that can rake in ad dollars on traditional tv.
In other words, at no point in my life do I see myself choosing to sit on the couch and watch someone play video games rather than watch a movie or TV show. Streaming is only something I do while playing a game, and therefore a fast paced game like Overwatch is automatically out. If I was somehow aspiring to be in the competitive scene myself, maybe, but I'm way too old for that shit. I have extreme doubts that esports will ever be something that can rake in ad dollars on traditional tv.
Poohblaster
Member
What do Valve and Riot Games charge for teams in their tournaments? Have they even franchised out competive teams?
I agree with both these sentiments. I personally don't find OW or COD compelling to watch because of the nature how spectating is and how it's handled.
SC, Dota, League, very easy to follow.
I'm obviously not an expert or an insider, so I'm talking out of my ass, but my conjecture is that the 8 digit franchise price tags aren't arbitrary or evidence of Blizzard's greed or stupidity or anything; they're a deliberate measure to exclude endemic esports organization from participating.
Tournament Quake 3 is (pretty much?) almost 1v1, so camera shifts aren't that disorienting.
CS:GO is slower and has smaller engagements at better defined map locations.
Overwatch combines all the confusing parts of MOBA team fights (the majority of matches consist of 6v6 scrums) with poor visual indicators between teams in a first person perspective. It's not a good combination.
Tournament Quake 3 is (pretty much?) almost 1v1, so camera shifts aren't that disorienting.
CS:GO is slower and has smaller engagements at better defined map locations.
Overwatch combines all the confusing parts of MOBA team fights (the majority of matches consist of 6v6 scrums) with poor visual indicators between teams in a first person perspective. It's not a good combination.
Obsing an FPS without the first person view doesn't let spectators watch first person aiming, which is a pretty crucial element.
Live soccer is an open field, Overwatch maps are not. Also, soccer usually follows the ball as the main point of action. You can't really do that on all Overwatch maps.
So what Blizzard took home from crashing the SC2 scene was that they didn't squeeze hard enough? Greedy gits.
Speaking of SC2, a good observer is crucial for viewing.
Speaking of SC2, a good observer is crucial for viewing.
The nuances of football can be seen with a wide, zoomed out camera angle.
The nuances of aiming in a first person shooter can't.
I'm not even sure how you came to your thought.
3rd person cameras are occasionally used in CS:GO tournaments already whenever it's applicable.
Yoda
Member
Using Twitch as a barometer for viewer interest would lead one to believe they'd have to ask less than Riot's asking price. Obviously the 20mil number is a starting negotiation price, but it's not even in the realm of being reasonable. When trying to haggle down the price of a house, you don't start off by saying: "Well, I got 3 dimes in my pocket..."
Right, but why not flip the script and build spectating for competitive FPS's from the ground up instead of generally starting with the in-game UI? People can watch on Twitch if they want to see a player's perspective.
Also keep in mind that the people getting these views are individual streamers. The current tournaments arent pulling all that great of numbers as far as I know. Nothing compared to majors in league or dota.
It needs to be around 200k buy in. Not 20 mil.
This is what I don't understand. Blizzard is trying to use the US pro sports model but that model falls apart without regional and national TV deals. The audience for the Overwatch league are more likely to be cord cutters so are they going to try and make Twitch and Youtube bid against each other for the broadcast rights?
They own MLG, so who knows if their Esports arm wants exclusivity for MLG.tv.
Kayo Police
Member
No just no. Go ask the casual Overwatch player who only plays quick play or plays the game at random intervals what the terms: Ult Economy, Dive Comp, Hard Counters, 2-2-2, Nano Blade etc etc are and they wouldnt know.
I have a few friends who only play OW at a casual level, they have no idea about what the current meta is or what proper team composition is, let alone will they know what exactly goes on in a Elite Level OW match between pros.
ZehDon
Gold Member
Given how poorly Starcraft 2's eSport scene was "managed" by Blizzard, this type of idiocy doesn't really surprise me. No one is chomping at the bit for this type move for Overwatch. It's fun to play, but a confusing mess of colours and spam to watch. Milking the cow before it is born isn't a sound business strategy.
giant_frying_pan
Member
I just finished uni for the year.
I'll play!
I'm not good, but....I'll play!
I'll play!
I'm not good, but....I'll play!
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Competitive overwatch is very difficult to watch. The plays are really quick and too much is happening too fast. Overwatch has big moments thanks to ults where it's easy to hype up a crowd, but the bulk of overwatch matches at that level feel like they are built around the attrition of losing the small moments. Also thanks to overwatch's match structure it can be really hard to turn a losing game around which makes for a lot of matches that look like you're just watching a loss in progress.
Competitive overwatch has a similar problem to competitive WoW arena, unless you're extremely well versed in the game and all of its mechanics it is borderline impossible to watch.
It's like others have said, overwatch is like all the mess of a moba team fight with an fps approach for actually showcasing how well the players are playing. You could spectate from top down to get a cleaner view of the action but then you can't lose your shit when the widow player gets 4 nasty flick head shots in a row.
Competitive overwatch has a similar problem to competitive WoW arena, unless you're extremely well versed in the game and all of its mechanics it is borderline impossible to watch.
It's like others have said, overwatch is like all the mess of a moba team fight with an fps approach for actually showcasing how well the players are playing. You could spectate from top down to get a cleaner view of the action but then you can't lose your shit when the widow player gets 4 nasty flick head shots in a row.
The article says that Riot expect $1.8m. (edit; this is wrong, see below)
Dota 2 has a more old-fashioned esports model, where there are no franchises or anything like that. A bunch of five good Dota players could form a team, and qualify to play at a major tournament, without any commercial sponsorship or backing - which has happened several times!
The Salt Life
Banned
I think k they are letting all the fan art and the 30 million mau's go to their head with that asking price. Yes it's a popular game, but it's not even a year old and is Overwatch even fun to watch? Fun to play sure, but to watch? Not for that price it is.
KiefbladeMaster
Member
Lol Blizzard, yea I'm sure people want to pay you $20 mil for a team registration.
I guess it is just a case of easier said than done, or at least I don't see how it is possible. I just think there is too much stuff going on at once, while not necessarily being close for an "overhead view" (or w/e it winds up being).
Looking at this vs HGC is mindblowing.
HGC is small and nice and good.
This is XFL territory.
20 mil isn't significantly higher it's absurdly higher.
So for the next 4 years they aren't guarantied a return on investment. The absurdity intensifies.
Might as well throw that 20 million at the lottery. You can get a better guarantee of making your money back over this arrangement Blizzard is asking for.
So for the next 4 years they aren't guarantied a return on investment. The absurdity intensifies.
Might as well throw that 20 million at the lottery. You can get a better guarantee of making your money back over this arrangement Blizzard is asking for.
TatteredHat
Member
WTF at that fee, Blizzard is getting ahead of themselves here.
Also, I don't know if anyone here paid attention to competitive TF2 - not many did! - but that game could be seen as an analog for competitive Overwatch. What I find quite interesting is that Blizzard made Overwatch exclusively KOTH and Payload/AD, whereas TF2 competitive was almost exclusively 5CP for many years. The push/pull gameplay, the glorious comebacks, the strategy of a well-executed push... I'm really surprised that they don't have a 5CP mode in Overwatch if they wanted to go down the competitive route.
ichbinmiah
Neo Member
*
I think Overwatch has the same issues as any FPS for spectator valueit's a lot easier to understand what's going on with the bird's eye view of MOBAs (which, coincidentally, mirror real-world spectating.)
But this is just asking for Blizzard to kill Overwatch's competitive scene.
Hold on a second.
Riot charges nothing to play in the LCS, and actually pays a salary. Valve doesn't charge teams anything either, as far as I know. Slots are given out based on performance in the leagues (there's a challenger league where you fight for your spot in the LCS for League of Legends), and play-in tournaments and invites for major tournaments for Dota 2.
That 1.8 million transaction is between two private parties. Riot may get a cut of that, I don't know, but Riot doesn't make any money from LCS teams directly.
Raylan Targaryen
Member
Wtf are they smoking? Who even gives a shit about competitive Overwatch.
Exploratory
Banned
20 million is a lot of money for that.
The 4 year delayed return is the kicker.
No wonder a hunch of orgs just dropped their OW teams.