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[Renekton]

They keep trying to pull a Riot (which was lightning in a bottle) when they should be trying to pull a Valve.

Nitpick: they are not pulling a Riot because Riot is incredibly lenient with partners (see Korea) and eats a lot of the expense compared to Valve who profits from compendium.

 

[Hubble]

Sad. Very sad. Blizzard should make their league open to everyone. There are a lot of competitive players who are aspiring to join/make a team. Blizzard should not turn their league to elitist privilege to join that require high funds or some form of connections to join.

 

[Lemstar]

Which asian teams? European teams have been moving since before OWL. Because there is no scene in Europe at all relative to APAC and NA.

Who moved before OWL info began coming out around Blizzcon? nV's organization is American and already had a teamhouse, so it made sense for them to be stationed in the US despite being all European. Misfits and Rogue didn't announce their moves until well after the announcement.

There's no scene in Europe because there was no reason to invest in Europe when credible rumors were that the OWL would be NA-only, at least for the first season, and Blizzard did absolutely nothing to deconfirm it. The causation's not the opposite way, as you seem to be suggesting.

Sad. Very sad. Blizzard should make their league open to everyone. There are a lot of competitive players who are aspiring to join/make a team. Blizzard should not turn their league to elitist privilege to join that require high funds or some form of connections to join.

To be fair to Blizzard, what they advertised was a structure in which pubs would be facilitated in entering the system. See their (hopefully unintentionally) hilariously awful trailer from the initial announcement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-p5V4nQU5k

 

[Orochinagis]

20M isnt a little too high?

 

[jediyoshi]

This game isn't viewer friendly at all. In most sports audiences got a view of the entire court. This game needs to at least go third person or something to see multiple viewpoints. Casuals will find it hard to follow thus limiting an audience. In most sports there is a ball so it becomes the focal point of attention. Anything around it is where things become interesting. In Overwatch there are many points of interests and its hard to gather with so many points of view. Remember the ball, puck, birdie, etc in all sports is always tracked. I can't recall what other sport where there is no ball of focus that is not some type of fighting.

On the contrary, they do go third person/freecam, but if you've watched first person competitive coverage for any extended length of time, it's generally a distraction. Early Overwatch competitive leaned on freecam way more and it generally went away between third party/first party tournaments.

At this point, I wouldn't say this is even a factor as far as them looking into its broadcastability. By all accounts, CBS/Turner is happy with ELEAGUE and CSGO and mainstream advertisers have been continuing to support the block. ELEAGUE covers SFV as well which is more intuitive to watch, but I haven't gotten a sense that its reach is anywhere near CSGO's.

 

[Leafhopper]

This game isn't viewer friendly at all. In most sports audiences got a view of the entire court. This game needs to at least go third person or something to see multiple viewpoints. Casuals will find it hard to follow thus limiting an audience. In most sports there is a ball so it becomes the focal point of attention. Anything around it is where things become interesting. In Overwatch there are many points of interests and its hard to gather with so many points of view. Remember the ball, puck, birdie, etc in all sports is always tracked. I can't recall what other sport where there is no ball of focus that is not some type of fighting.

It does go 3rd person but only tracks that player to a 1 to 1 ratio with their movements.

But yeah it needs a free cam to pull back.

 

[clemenx]

Lmao at those fees.

I think that at this point the big 3 of Dota-Lol-CSGO esports is too stablished already. Probably for quite a bit of long term. With the FGC being their own thing on top of that. There's not too much space to break into esports for new games.

 

[veloxStrix]

Who moved before OWL info began coming out around Blizzcon? nV's organization is American and already had a teamhouse, so it made sense for them to be stationed in the US despite being all European. Misfits and Rogue didn't announce their moves until well after the announcement.

There's no scene in Europe because there was no reason to invest in Europe when credible rumors were that the OWL would be NA-only, at least for the first season, and Blizzard did absolutely nothing to deconfirm it. The causation's not the opposite way, as you seem to be suggesting.

The amount of time between Overwatch being out and OWL being announced is almost equivalent to the time between the OWL being announced and now. Honestly, it doesn't really matter when the European teams left and I regret bringing it up at all considering NV moved forever ago and there are only two teams that are relevant besides them. It's very likely you are are correct and they moved because of the OWL, but I still don't believe OWL will not include Korea/China from the beginning.

From the owner of Selfless_gg:

This is a complex issue, and as a result it takes time, and it also takes a lot of back and forth negotiation and hand wringing. It's no easy task to map out and value a franchise structure in a rapidly growing industry, with so many unknown factors in play. Anyone here who thinks they know better because they did some math on the back of a napkin - ballparking some estimates in their head based on recent twitch viewership numbers or something - well it just makes me want to facepalm to be honest.

The time horizon in play here is 5-10 years or more. Blizzard is looking for committed partners to building something special, something new. It's impossible to have all the answers up front, nobody knows exactly how this will go, but if everyone gets skin in the game and doesn't treat this as a free ride, then there's a much better chance of everyone working to figure it out together instead of jumping ship when the first storm cloud hits.

”Second, we'd like to dispel any rumors that we're ignoring endemics.

As a small endemic, Selfless first started speaking with Blizzard in April of 2016. Did we always get the answers to every question we asked? No, of course not. Was there a dialogue? Yes. It's a mistake in business, in life, to have a sense of entitlement about these things. Being early to an industry does not give you an automatic right to its future; you have to fight for your spot in the marketplace.

Finally, it's important to think twice about statements from unnamed sources, who may try to leverage the media to deliberately spread misinformation as bargaining tactics or for other competitive reasons. We look forward to officially sharing real details about the league and the ecosystem as a whole as we continue the development process.

Exactly. The news article we all read basically had the tidbits that a select few people wanted you to know about, without any of the full context that might better explain why. That everyone here rushes to judgement without even a fraction of the full story is a :thinking:, I guess people are just frustrated with all the waiting (hey I can relate).

At the end of the day, people who play Overwatch will appreciate and want to watch other people play it better than they ever could. Nothing in any of these negotiations will change that. The real future of Overwatch eSports is not so fragile as some people make it out to be. And side note, but if we look back at SC2, that was mostly the result of MOBAs being more fun and accessible to people than RTS. And HOTS? Blizzard was too late to the genre; it's not easy to gain market share against entrenched giants. The supposed history of Blizzard's "failures" in eSports is largely exaggerated, and so is this sky is falling narrative in Overwatch right now.

Like everyone else I'm getting pretty impatient; but I'm still optimistic, and I think it will be worth the wait in the end.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/6am9em/blizzard_officially_responds_to_overwatch_league/

 

[LordofPwn]

It does go 3rd person but only tracks that player to a 1 to 1 ratio with their movements.

But yeah it needs a free cam to pull back.

It does have a free cam. I can't remember how many spectators it can have though. 6? It's enough to have 1 camera op on each team and a few free cams. Most tournaments I've seen though only have 2 spectators so it's a free can and a player cam. LANs you can go crazy with because each players screen can be pulled up and then you have spectators as free cams. With Overwatch there's usually only a few points of contention on any given map. I'm excited to see what else they add to spectator controls.

 

[Usobuko]

CS:GO is so much bigger than Overwatch from a competitive standpoint dude, it's not even close. Overwatch will never be the front runner of competitive FPS as long as CS is there.

Pretty sure I'm not comparing to CS:GO but rather the moba fps ( Paragon / Paladin etc. ) scene.

Just like you don't compare moba to starcraft.

 

[patapuf]

Pretty sure I'm not comparing to CS:GO but rather the moba fps ( Paragon / Paladin etc. ) scene.

Just like you don't compare moba to starcraft.

The only moba out of those is Paragon.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

With 20 million dollars lying around you'd be better off investing in a professional sports team.

 

[Diablohead]

Blizzard can say that they are listening and trying to fix things but the truth is that they started way too high and already messed over several pro teams who I doubt will return a y time soon, 20mil....

 

[pretty done]

Pretty sure I'm not comparing to CS:GO but rather the moba fps ( Paragon / Paladin etc. ) scene.

Just like you don't compare moba to starcraft.

You're comparing it to the scene that doesn't even really exist? Good luck with that.

 

[pelicansurf]

Rip OW League. I was pretty stoked about it too.

20 million dollars with a 4-year delay on revenue sharing for a game that's a year old... suspect decision.

 

[daegan]

Get the fuck outta here blizzard. Even a blind man can see how ridiculous to ask $20 million without even guranteeding a benefit. Way to strangle your goose before it can lay the golden egg.

MLS teams are falling all over themselves to pay $150 million expansion fees even though the league itself and most teams claim they are unprofitable. But buying into MLS -also- gets you into Soccer United Marketing which promotes US and Mexico national team games in the US, sells TV rights, etc and that money isn't included in "MLS profits" typically.

What I'm trying to say is I wonder if Blizzard is looking at trying to create a SUM-like alternate set of paths to $$$ for OWL, and what that would look like.

With 20 million dollars lying around you'd be better off investing in a professional sports team.

20 million is minor league money (literally - one of the requirements for a D2 soccer team in the US is a majority owner has to have a net worth of $20m.) I think they'll struggle with this amount if they really are asking for it, but given the ownership they presumably are courting, with localized teams and all that, those people presumably can afford it.

 

[Usobuko]

You're comparing it to the scene that doesn't even really exist? Good luck with that.

No, I am clarifying to you what I mean by being the top dog of this new scene.

Here's what Blue Ocean meant.

argue that companies can succeed not by battling competitors, but rather by creating ″blue oceans″ of uncontested market space.

And this space is uncontested just like moba once was in rts.

Overwatch is a unfortunate case despite having the first mover advantage because Paragon exist and Epic is owned by Tencent which hampens its entry in the Chinese market where the big money are.

 

[NimbusD]

Think the distrust in Blizzard's Overwatch League might stem from how they've handled competitive StarCraft 2 and Hearthstone? Not to mention the way competitive Overwatch has been downplayed so far?

Yeah something tells me it's the fee.... Lol

People might be hesitant for other reason, but there's already a competitive scene without their league.

 

[Leafhopper]

It does have a free cam. I can't remember how many spectators it can have though. 6? It's enough to have 1 camera op on each team and a few free cams. Most tournaments I've seen though only have 2 spectators so it's a free can and a player cam. LANs you can go crazy with because each players screen can be pulled up and then you have spectators as free cams. With Overwatch there's usually only a few points of contention on any given map. I'm excited to see what else they add to spectator controls.

I wasn't aware of this. I haven't seen Overwatch games in awhile so I forgot I guess. In a normal game no one can use this though I assume? I have never seen that option if so.

 

[TheGameshark]

lol Blizzard what the fuck are you doing

 

[Zemm]

The worst part of all this is that they've already damaged their competitive scene with the league announcements then this ridiculous buy in price

 

[Lemstar]

Per sources in each organisation, the rosters formerly representing Fnatic, Dignitas, and LG Loyal will no longer be part of their respective organisations. This news follows the announcements of Splyce, TSM, Red Reserve, and compLexity as organisations begin to take a step back and evaluate their investments in Overwatch.

The last batch of organizations dropping their Overwatch teams could have been handwaved away as not being that important due to poor tournament results/lack of real interest in the scene/no roster stability, but these three teams are far more prominent. Fnatic is possibly the largest eSports organization in the world, and Dignitas has an existing professional sports partnership already - they're owned by the NBA's Philadelphia 76ers. LG has also been heavily invested in Overwatch with the current NRG team since before the game's release.

 

[hanspampel]

to bad i really like the game Overwatch and the potential for Esport is / was huge
no other game than LoL is played so actively in so many different regions

 

[SRTtoZ]

I have a really tough time watching overwatch tournaments for some reason. Its different from mobas, but i cant put my finger on it. I think its the casting style of switching from one fps camera to another so rapidly.

I love OW, but Im not sure its going to be the draw that league or dota is.

To me it's because in a MOBA like Hots you can see everything on the screen and understand what's happening without changing the camera to different povs every 5 seconds.

 

[Zemm]

Rip in peace competitive overwatch (2016-2017)

 

[TheYanger]

Yeah mobas are much easier to follow, if a big engagement happens you can see it all the same as the players do basically, to get that in an FPS you're stuck swapping cameras trying to anticipate who is going to make an impressive play. Not the same at all. Disorienting to people that aren't VERY familiar with the maps and players too.

 

[Renekton]

Yeah mobas are much easier to follow, if a big engagement happens you can see it all the same as the players do basically, to get that in an FPS you're stuck swapping cameras trying to anticipate who is going to make an impressive play. Not the same at all. Disorienting to people that aren't VERY familiar with the maps and players too.

I thought they can add / have added the overhead with transparency that WoW Arena and CS:GO have.

 

[TheYanger]

I thought they can add / have added the overhead with transparency that WoW Arena and CS:GO have.

It's still not going to get you the viewership you'd like that way, the realityis impressive plays made by pro players look impressive from first person, watching a widow snipe a bunch of people from a zoomed out overhead view is not REMOTELY the same as seeing someone snapping and flicking their reticle around like a god.

Mobas don't have to have s different way to view the game than they do to play it, it's a HUGE difference. CS:Go is a much slower game too, it's a lot more important to see where people are positioned and such. Just, the way that Overwatch is played doesn't tend to create tension in the setup, it creates it when people make very quick plays with great precision.

EDIT: Slower is probably not the right way to describe CS:GO, more tactical though. That translates much better to non-first person entertainment and commentary.

 

[KingGreasy]

I think announcing the Overwatch League so early was a mistake. Not even a lineup of teams or certain date to look forward to. If they don't get the teams set and the tournament going by the end of the year, they'll be getting close to two years before the uncertainty in how the competitive Overwatch scene will develop. Near two years where pro-players, teams, and casters should be building their brands. The first viewers and advocates of the league will be those that are already fans of Overwatch competitive which would have been better if their was a grassroots scene wasn't waiting to see what happens with this Overwatch League. PC shooters have a lot of competition.

CSGO got a second wind from balance updates that enticed Source and 1.6 players to move on and the arms deal updates to add the goal of skins for the non/less-competitive players. I don't know what improvement to Overwatch can be done to get a second wind other than a substantial price drop which Blizzard is slow to do. Games get older and people move on needing new players to replace them to keep the scene steady. So many in the Starcraft 2 scene were so certain League of Legends wasn't going to hurt the SC2 scene because the games were so different. The same with shooting games but it turned out people play games in more than one genre and a lot left for numerous different games. League, Dota, Heathstone, CSGO, popular survival game etc.

I'm not sure a big tournament will be the kind of second wind that can match the release hype of Overwatch and with how much money Activision-Blizzard seems to think Overwatch competitive can be worth, I don't think they're being realistic especially since their early announcement of their super league has put the Overwatch competitive scene in caution mode. With the huge start it got at launch, this game should have been building up its base scene with big stages like Dreamhack, ESL, and IEM so it could come out strong for their big league. League of Legends was apparent to surpass SC2 before LCS became a thing. Blizzard wasn't involved in the Brood War or Warcraft(RTS) competitive scenes and their SC2 involvement was less than ideal. If I'm an investor, I wouldn't be sold on Overwatch becoming the standard bearer for commercial competitive gaming.

 

[Nokterian]

Per sources in each organisation, the rosters formerly representing Fnatic, Dignitas, and LG Loyal will no longer be part of their respective organisations. This news follows the announcements of Splyce, TSM, Red Reserve, and compLexity as organisations begin to take a step back and evaluate their investments in Overwatch.

The last batch of organizations dropping their Overwatch teams could have been handwaved away as not being that important due to poor tournament results/lack of real interest in the scene/no roster stability, but these three teams are far more prominent. Fnatic is possibly the largest eSports organization in the world, and Dignitas has an existing professional sports partnership already - they're owned by the NBA's Philadelphia 76ers. LG has also been heavily invested in Overwatch with the current NRG team since before the game's release.

Not smart from blizzard how there handling this..20 million dollars per team? Are they nuts? No team has that kind of money.

Seeing how CS:GO is going with tournaments i think they will stick with that or other shooters really. This Overwatch League can be dead in the water anytime soon now.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Not smart from blizzard how there handling this..20 million dollars per team? Are they nuts? No team has that kind of money.

Blizzard isn't targeting esports organizations, they want rich sports teams to purchase esports team slots. The problem is that the latest batch of NBA owners (and other rich people) expanding into the LoL/CSGO scene were unsuccessful:

Echo Fox, NRG, Schalke 04, Saint-Germain. Other venture capitals who invested heavily into LoL teams have also failed to produce results like Ember.

 

[Bluth54]

Blizzard isn't targeting esports organizations, they want rich sports teams to purchase esports team slots. The problem is that the latest batch of NBA owners (and other rich people) expanding into the LoL/CSGO scene were unsuccessful:

Echo Fox, NRG, Schalke 04, Saint-Germain. Other venture capitals who invested heavily into LoL teams have also failed to produce results like Ember.

Okay this makes more sense, I couldn't understand who Blizzard was targeting since I doubt any Overwatch team has $20 million on their own.

I can totally get why Blizzard is having problems finding any takers for this league, especially if other things like this haven't worked out well in the past.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Per sources in each organisation, the rosters formerly representing Fnatic, Dignitas, and LG Loyal will no longer be part of their respective organisations. This news follows the announcements of Splyce, TSM, Red Reserve, and compLexity as organisations begin to take a step back and evaluate their investments in Overwatch.

The last batch of organizations dropping their Overwatch teams could have been handwaved away as not being that important due to poor tournament results/lack of real interest in the scene/no roster stability, but these three teams are far more prominent. Fnatic is possibly the largest eSports organization in the world, and Dignitas has an existing professional sports partnership already - they're owned by the NBA's Philadelphia 76ers. LG has also been heavily invested in Overwatch with the current NRG team since before the game's release.

This is incredible. I've never seen a game (with esports aspirations, no less) take such active measures to kill off the competitive scene.

 

[Won]

Rip in peace competitive overwatch (2016-2017)

As someone who often follows these things only casually, I'm pretty sure there has been no competitive Overwatch in 2017 outside of Asia.

At least now I have an explanation on what is going on (or not going on in this case).

 

[fireflame]

Well ii do not feel sorry for them, they want too much and it backfires.

 

[Calabi]

To me it's because in a MOBA like Hots you can see everything on the screen and understand what's happening without changing the camera to different povs every 5 seconds.

And maybe because Overwatch is just constant action. In moba's there's the downtime the build up, anticipation and then the sudden explosion of action. In Overwatch there's just constant head on spamming of attacks, its hard to know what is going on or who is winning at any time. Its tiring to watch.