-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
ESPN OTL: Pete Rose bet on baseball while he was a player
- Thread starter jbug617
- Start date
- Status
You don't belong in the HOF with a .260 average. You don't belong in the HOF if you're claim is a Sportscenter highlight. It's a career that makes it. My small list I posted is off the top of my head(besides Maz's stats), there's probably worse players than I could have put in there, feel free to google it.
Maz is like a Dave Roberts to me. He started the rally for the Red Sox comeback, was a decent player, but in no way deserves to be in the Hall. Maz got in because of his hr in LA that is shown ever post season. His career isn't a HOF career.
Its the same argument against Edgar Martinez and Ortiz, both barely played defense, and likely won't get into the HOF(Ortiz will before Edgar because of rings). Why do defensive players who cant hit for shit deserve to be in if DHs don't?
The ethical marks refer specifically to Pete's issue. He's a scumbag off the field, like many players and managers, but he does have the hits record and deserves to be in the HOF if scumbags like Bobby Cox do.
without a doubt. But that's the argument they're going to use, and have been been using. As long as the induction is based upon the opinions of writers, there will be discrepancies. There are contexts and degrees to these things - same with all sports.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Honestly, the whole betting scandal is nothing to me ( my personal opinion ) but the fact that this man isn't in the HOF is blasphemous.
terrisus
Member
Except that one is banned from Baseball, and the other is not.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Don't you mean "and"?
Is your "one" referring to the player/manager or the acts? Because both acts are banned from the sport and Bobby was never punished because his abused wife dropped the charges.
Why does postseason play matter at all? Not sure why you brought it up as some sort of qualifier.
terrisus
Member
From my sentence structure and the quote that I was replying ti, it should be pretty clear that I was referring to one of those two people is banned from Baseball, and the other person isn't.
Hopefully that clears it up, though.
Being banned from Baseball makes you ineligible for the Hall of Fame.
CheDominik
Member
Yeah especially at a time when only one team out of each league made the "postseason". Heck the World Series was viewed as an exhibition game back then and winning the pennant was more important.
edit: Oh yes, Billy Pierce should be in the HOF before it's too late. Minnie Minoso unfortunately never had the opportunity despite being deserving.
Because there all players with outstanding postseason careers still not in the hof(the whole point of sport is to win btw) while guys with no experience whatsoever made it in.
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/287142-the-best-pitchers-not-in-the-hof-who-got-overlooked
Does a real good indepth look at pitchers who should be in over some of the guys already in there
terrisus
Member
Totally.
I mean "one" is such a descriptive term. One should try and post quick jabs and smartass remarks in everything like one does.
I remember being at Pax South on Saturday when my friend turned to look at me and said that Banks passed away. That broke my heart.
terrisus
Member
In case you missed it, it takes more than one player to make the postseason.
Plus, there are more teams in the postseason now.
Evaluating individual players based on what their team as a whole did is rather absurd.
Despite the fact that I felt it should be obvious, I clarified my point.
You're free to respond to it now if you would like.
Frozenprince
Banned
Yep. Plenty of guys did this. Plenty of guys continue to do it.
I don't care he was the greatest hitter of his generation, he should be in the HoF and should be allowed to coach.
terrisus
Member
I agree with you on that, just in case there was any doubt.
zychi, winning is a team game. Winning shouldn't factor into anything on an individual level. Yes, your performance contributes to Ws, but if the rest of the squad is league average or worse, does it matter that you couldn't get over the hump and get into the playoffs? Others have already pointed out how the playoffs are a different beast from what they used to be.
I agree with you that there are good players that have not been recognized and bad players that are, but playoffs/postseason/Ws shouldn't really matter. Leave that to shitty sports writers, and Tebow lovers.
Edit: I should have put bad in quotations, they aren't bad just not hall of fame good.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Teams can win, players can't.
terrisus
Member
Frozenprince
Banned
<3
Don't you dare mock Bobby V the man is a saint!
terrisus
Member
Sometimes I forget that he managed the 2012 Red Sox.
Repressed memories, I guess >.>
Simply Sarah
Member
Yes, that was part of it, but he's also probably the greatest defensive second baseman of all-time. And even then he only got in because of the Veterans Committee.
Oh, I think DHs should certainly be considered as well. Edgar Martinez should be in the Hall although I'm iffy on Ortiz
Oh, I don't argue that the standards are far from consistent.
I'm not sure "managed" is quite the right word for it.
terrisus
Member
Well, he "managed" to make a mess of things >.>
But, hey, 2013 makes it worth it =)
Agreed. Unless he bet AGAINST his team it doesn't matter one bit. Not advantage was gained. And if he did bet on his teams to win. Oh well...so he thought his team was going to win the game? Every player should.
Also apparently this is old news as it was published in his book in 2004 that he bet on that year.
terrisus
Member
Both of these points have been brought up, discussed, and addressed earlier in this thread - multiple times.
BobTheFork
Member
Pete got banned during a very different time when the integrity of the game meant something, even if it's more of a joke now.
He maintained for YEARS AND YEARS that although he bet, he never bet on his own team as a manager (implying that it wasn't as bad as we thought?) He swore to that for...seriously how long? Then the last time this became a big discussion, he finally admitted 'the truth' as a way, not of coming clean, but as a wedge of good faith he could ride into the hall of fame. At the same time, he swore that he never bet on games as a player.
Now would you look at that, he was still telling a lie. When would he admitted that if it wasn't revealed for him?
IF he said told the total truth when it happened, it might have been worse at the time but by now, that wound would have healed and he would be in the hall of Fame. But we got a partial truth and every time he revealed more, he still swore that part of the allegations were not true. He actually had a chance to make this right and had that chance for a very long time. I don't really know or care about the implications of gambling on the game, then or now. I say let him into the Hall 30 years after we finally have the entire admission of truth from him. It looks like he just reset the clock again.
He maintained for YEARS AND YEARS that although he bet, he never bet on his own team as a manager (implying that it wasn't as bad as we thought?) He swore to that for...seriously how long? Then the last time this became a big discussion, he finally admitted 'the truth' as a way, not of coming clean, but as a wedge of good faith he could ride into the hall of fame. At the same time, he swore that he never bet on games as a player.
Now would you look at that, he was still telling a lie. When would he admitted that if it wasn't revealed for him?
IF he said told the total truth when it happened, it might have been worse at the time but by now, that wound would have healed and he would be in the hall of Fame. But we got a partial truth and every time he revealed more, he still swore that part of the allegations were not true. He actually had a chance to make this right and had that chance for a very long time. I don't really know or care about the implications of gambling on the game, then or now. I say let him into the Hall 30 years after we finally have the entire admission of truth from him. It looks like he just reset the clock again.
HarryDemeanor
Member
If they're not going to put him in the Baseball Hall of Fame then Vince should put him in the WWE Hall of Fame. He deserves it.
Edit: Wait, he's in it already? Boy was that forever ago.
Edit: Wait, he's in it already? Boy was that forever ago.
Frank Serpico
Banned
Doesn't change the fact he's the greatest hitter ever
Whitman's Ghost
Banned
Honestly, I don't care anymore. Put Rose in the hall of fame where he belongs.
timetokill
Banned
It's proven? How so?
They can't even tabulate all the bets he made because many of them are illegible.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
It can imply that you know of a fix and are betting on that knowledge.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Oh boy, conspiracy theories now. Did he short airline stocks before 9/11, too?
The main issue is steroids were never against the rules at that point, but betting on baseball had a rule of a lifetime ban. I understand why people disagree but "rules are rules".
CheDominik
Member
Steroids in baseball were against the rules since 1990.
Congress tried to crack down on them and Fay Vincent released a memo in 1991.
"The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players and personnel is strictly prohibited. Major League players or personnel involved in the possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance are subject to discipline by the Commissioner and risk permanent expulsion from the game
This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs and controlled substances, including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription."
Technically they were illegal, but there was no testing taking place.
Mighty Chin
Banned
Charlie Hustle Deserves to be in the Hall.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked