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ESPN Ranks LeBron as the #3 NBA Player All-Time. What say you?

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C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
sans_pants said:
The whole point of the list is that it takes their career in perspective

Lebron dominated for like a decade. Curry might get 3-4 years of being the best in the league
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He dominated but he wasn't the best player in the league for a decade. He only overtook Kobe 6 or 7 years ago and Steph overtook him this year. That's about 6 years as the best player in the NBA.
 
B

Boombloxer

Member
Cooter said:
He dominated but he wasn't the best player in the league for a decade. He only overtook Kobe 6 or 7 years ago and Steph overtook him this year. That's about 6 years as the best player in the NBA.
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I'd say 5 years ago really. 2011.
He couldn't carry his boys past a Magic squad that got smoked in 5 games by Kobe's Lakers before that.
 
U

Union Carbine

Member
I'll just leave these here...

Robinson on Hakeem vs Shaq:
“Size wise Shaq was just a monster. You couldn’t move him. From a skills standpoint though, Hakeem had everything. If I’m starting a team that is probably the guy that I would start with.”
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Shaq on Hakeem:
“Hakeem Olajuwon was the only guy that I couldn’t intimidate,” Shaq said of Hakeem.

Shaq then talked about his intimidation tactics and how they didn’t work on Olajuwon.

“When I would say something, if you say something back, I had you. If I [elbow] you and you complain, I had you,” Shaq explained.

“Right before the (1995) finals — we had beaten Houston twice that year in Houston and in Orlando — Hakeem was good, but I didn’t know that he was that good. I was in my own zone and wasn’t really worried about anybody else. First play of the game, I gave him the patented Shaq ‘bow, jump hook, 2-0. He just smiled at me. And then he came down and gave me [a move], shot a jumper and said, ‘right back at you, Big Fella.’

“So I came down and did it again, but I could never get to him. I could never intimidate him.”

Shaq then went on to explain how the variety in Olajuwon’s moves made him so difficult to guard.

“He’s a guy that you couldn’t study. Like Alonzo (Mourning) and Patrick (Ewing) and all the Georgetown guys, they would fake left and go hard right with that dumb, running jump hook. Hakeem Olajuwon, he would go left, he would go right, so you really couldn’t study for him. The best defense was put your hands up and hope he misses.”
Click to expand...
 
P

pennanton

Neo Member
The LeBron hate is astounding, people here seriously saying not even Top 10? Really? Have we been watching the same sport?

I'm okay with number 3. Jordan is solid No. 1 but No. 2-3 is interchangeable between Bird and LeBron. 4-5 either Magic or Hakeem.

Seriously though, this is a guy with probably the most perfect basketball physique and brain. As quick as a guard in the open floor, 6'8 and built better than most C's these days. Plays both ends of the floor and looks to pass as much as shoot every time down. Every shortcoming his game has he's worked on. Developed a more consistent jumper and 3 ball, developed a smarter handle, learnt to post smaller players, to play the 4, to play with pace. His efficiency was off the charts the last two years in Miami.

The guy jumps on a team with Kyrie '30 wins' Irving and Kevin 'never seen the playoffs before Bron' Love and brings them to the finals with a 9 other bench scrubs. Thats just this year. Previous Cleveland teams were even worse. The idea that rings epitomise individual talent is so bizarre, no one has carried worse teams to consistent success as LeBron has. Bill Walton and Iverson did it once, for one year.
 
T

Two Words

Member
pennanton said:
The LeBron hate is astounding, people here seriously saying not even Top 10? Really? Have we been watching the same sport?

I'm okay with number 3. Jordan is solid No. 1 but No. 2-3 is interchangeable between Bird and LeBron. 4-5 either Magic or Hakeem.

Seriously though, this is a guy with probably the most perfect basketball physique and brain. As quick as a guard in the open floor, 6'8 and built better than most C's these days. Plays both ends of the floor and looks to pass as much as shoot every time down. Every shortcoming his game has he's worked on. Developed a more consistent jumper and 3 ball, developed a smarter handle, learnt to post smaller players, to play the 4, to play with pace. His efficiency was off the charts the last two years in Miami.

The guy jumps on a team with Kyrie '30 wins' Irving and Kevin 'never seen the playoffs before Bron' Love and brings them to the finals with a 9 other bench scrubs. Thats just this year. Previous Cleveland teams were even worse. The idea that rings epitomise individual talent is so bizarre, no one has carried worse teams to consistent success as LeBron has. Bill Walton and Iverson did it once, for one year.
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Lebron brought a team to the Finals as the solo all-star once in his career.

And who would have thought that when 3 all-star players join up on a single team, that they'd have much greater success???
 
T

tmac456

Member
the Lebron hate certainly is real

people claiming it's debatable for him to be in the top 10 is hysterical. seriously, get a grip. guy has been the best all around player in the world for many years. look at his numbers ffs. he does it all and LMFAO @ saying he doesn't make those around him better. do any of you remember those garbage Cleveland teams he was on???
 
RiccochetJ

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
LeBron is one of those, "Once in a generation" type players. I wouldn't put him at #3 just yet, but when his career is over and you look back, I could easily see him at that spot.
 
R

RetrospectiveLamb

Member
He's outside the top 5 because of all his final losses and horrid track record as coach killer and GM. Other than that, he is a fantastic generational player.
 
W

wbsmcs

Member
I checked Wilt Chamberlain's stats on basketball reference..50ppg? Easy number 1.

It says Bill Russell also won 11 rings so that would put him just after MJ..MJ 2, Bill 3

Sam Jones won 10 titles..so he'll be 4th

Pete Maravich had some crazy handles 5th

Nate Archibald was fun to play with in Street Volume 2 ... 6th

...at this rate I don't even think Lebron cracks top 50. We haven't even gotten to the greats like Alex English, Adrian Dantley, and Bill Walton. Put Alex English in today's NBA and he'll be scoring 40+ a game.

You can't go to 6 straight finals and have the audacity of losing 4 of them. Those 2 wins weren't even legit. Ray=1, and the Spurs choking to OKC in the WCF that year = 2. Lebron had easy East his whole career. Let's see him make two straight finals out the west like Karl Malone.
 
S

scitek

Member
Two Words said:
lebron-james-flop-2011.gif
Click to expand...

v86Z2.gif


.
 
D

dragonyeuw

Member
Boombloxer said:
Kobe ate them alive too. And kept feeding.
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Kobe never played Michael Cooper or young Rodman, and by the time he hit his peak Penny and Grant were injured shells. Reggie Lewis died in 93. So over half the list of guys you say Kobe ate alive....he actually never played against or didn't play them in their peaks. Not saying he wouldn't do well, mind you. I could also make the argument that old MJ fared well against guys from Kobe's era. He burned Marion, Garnett, Battier, hung 30 on Tmac. There's no reason to think prime MJ would have fared any worse in Kobe's era considering at 40 he was more than competitive. You also should factor in that MJ didn't play in an era with rule changes that benefitted the perimeter player. He dominated in a league where convenional offense was still 'you need a star/dominant big' in order to win.
 
L

LegendofDragoonLives

Member
bionic77 said:
Thats not really much an argument.

MJ never won shit without Pippen. Pippin came within a few seconds of making it to the Finals against the most dominant team of the 2000s. He also carried the Bulls on his back and should have beaten the Knicks by himself but got fucked by the refs.

A better argument would be Bill Cartwright and Jordan. Both are pretty close in my eyes. On the court and in the showers it was a pretty even matchup.

Any ranking of the all time players is retarded. LeBron is one of the best ever. After that its all subjective bullshit. For me his 2-4 Finals record and the fact that he was never really able to elevate guys like Bosh and Love hurts him to me. But he is undoubtedly one of the best. I do like that they gave Hakeem some props. He carried some straight up garbage to the Finals. And en route I saw him rip off and eat David Robinson's penis live on the NBA on NBC.

Concerning LeBron would put him behind Cedric Ceballos but certainly ahead of bum ass bums like Jordan.
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lol what in the hell is this? It genuinely sounds like you're being serious and this isn't a parody. :\
 
E

Empyrean Heaven

Member
msdstc said:
Lol at the lebron hate, guy is an absolute beast. That being said Magic Johnson has unreal numbers. Kareem doesn't seem like he should be #2.
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Kareem's offense was unreal, but his defense was crap, something he poked fun at himself regularly (ever seen Airplane?) He's unmatched as a shooter though, and his size is unreal.

Magic deserves the 3 spot just due to his all around play. Maybe he wasn't the best shooter, but his ability to set plays, lead the team, and pass the ball is better than anyone else in the league. The fact that he's probably the nicest guy in NBA history helps out too.
 
J

JasonUresti

Member
WesternHeretic said:
His logic is Magic Johnson is the greatest and any one with the same initial is shit =)

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Bron
Bird
Wilt ( actually the more I think about it the more I want to drop him even lower)
Duncan
Oscar
Kobe
Shaq ( I want to put him lower too but don't think I actually can make a semi decent case for).
Dream (I want to put him higher but it's hard to put a case for him against some of those guys up there even though he's on my personal favorites)
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Why? How is Bird and Bron and Magic abov him? Kareem maybe for longevity but old man Wilt played prime Kareem better than the 80s centers did against Grandfather KAJ who could barely get off the ground. Wilt also demolished many of the same centers in his prime to a greater degree than Kareem did years later playing them. Wilt is also way above KAJ on the defensive end.

Bill Russell, KAJ himself, Jerry West, Rick Barry, Connie Hawkins, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, Al Attles, Nate Thurmond, Larry Brown will all tell you Wilt is either the greatest or one of the top few greatest of all time. (Which makes it laughable with some idiots in this thread acting Wilt shouldnt even be in the top 10. As Oscar said to a similar question about Wilt not being able to play in todays game, "You just showed me you dont know shit about basketball.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
JasonUresti said:
Why? How is Bird and Bron and Magic abov him? Kareem maybe for longevity but old man Wilt played prime Kareem better than the 80s centers did against Grandfather KAJ who could barely get off the ground. Wilt also demolished many of the same centers in his prime to a greater degree than Kareem did years later playing them. Wilt is also way above KAJ on the defensive end.

Bill Russell, KAJ himself, Jerry West, Rick Barry, Connie Hawkins, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, Al Attles, Nate Thurmond, Larry Brown will all tell you Wilt is either the greatest or one of the top few greatest of all time. (Which makes it laughable with some idiots in this thread acting Wilt shouldnt even be in the top 10. As Oscar said to a similar question about Wilt not being able to play in todays game, "You just showed me you dont know shit about basketball.
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I just felt like he played in an era where he should of just dominated in everything (not just stats but winning too). He literally had 0 competition in his era except for Bill Russell, and we all know Russell ended up with all the rings.

I guess my knock on Wilt is the same knock on Shaq. They were so far ahead of their peers athletically, but just didn't have the work ethic/drive to push it further. (I guess this is why I also like Terrell Owens over Randy Moss in the WR discussion over in football land).

It's not only hearing/reading stories about but even watching clips of him you ask yourself "how the bleep did this guy ever lose?" Yet he did and then you add on the stories and it's just hard to like the guy. Add everything up it just doesn't add up for him and on top of that when Lakers fan talk about the greatest Laker of all time they rarely ever pick him either and this is a team that he played for.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
WesternHeretic said:
I just felt like he played in an era where he should of just dominated in everything (not just stats but winning too). He literally had 0 competition in his era except for Bill Russell, and we all know Russell ended up with all the rings.

I guess my knock on Wilt is the same knock on Shaq. They were so far ahead of their peers athletically, but just didn't have the work ethic/drive to push it further. (I guess this is why I also like Terrell Owens over Randy Moss in the WR discussion over in football land).

It's not only hearing/reading stories about but even watching clips of him you ask yourself "how the bleep did this guy ever lose?" Yet he did and then you add on the stories and it's just hard to like the guy. Add everything up it just doesn't add up for him and on top of that when Lakers fan talk about the greatest Laker of all time they rarely ever pick him either and this is a team that he played for.
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That's just because his years with the Lakers don't compare to Magic, Kobe, Kareem or Shaq.

He's #2 all time because of what he did in Philly, primarily.
 
A

abd

Member
I have more a problem with Russel behind Bird and Hakeem behind Duncan.

Magic should probably be ahead of James just because he was willing to play every position. Lebron might be getting in his own way.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
Anth0ny said:
That's just because his years with the Lakers don't compare to Magic, Kobe, Kareem or Shaq.

He's #2 all time because of what he did in Philly, primarily.
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Good point, but I still find it odd he's not really loved anywhere beside stat nerds. As for his peers saying good thing about him I think every era is pretty bias to their own era.

abd said:
I have more a problem with Russel behind Bird and Hakeem behind Duncan.

Magic should probably be ahead of James just because he was willing to play every position. Lebron might be getting in his own way.
Click to expand...

Well those two are easily the two best Celtics of all time. One is the ultimate winner and the other is the ultimate teammate player you want to have leading your franchise.
 
B

Boombloxer

Member
dragonyeuw said:
Kobe never played Michael Cooper or young Rodman, and by the time he hit his peak Penny and Grant were injured shells. Reggie Lewis died in 93. So over half the list of guys you say Kobe ate alive....he actually never played against or didn't play them in their peaks. Not saying he wouldn't do well, mind you. I could also make the argument that old MJ fared well against guys from Kobe's era. He burned Marion, Garnett, Battier, hung 30 on Tmac. There's no reason to think prime MJ would have fared any worse in Kobe's era considering at 40 he was more than competitive. You also should factor in that MJ didn't play in an era with rule changes that benefitted the perimeter player. He dominated in a league where convenional offense was still 'you need a star/dominant big' in order to win.
Click to expand...

He played Cooper when he was 17 in his first Lakers workout. Smoked.
And every other player you mentioned, he did play against in their prime and beat repeatedly for years.

I could make the other argument that says MJ never had to face any of the new defenses either, since you couldn't play zone or some of the other schemes you can employ nowadays.

He's the best player of his generation. All of the players acknowledge it.
I still laugh that Jalen Rose refuses to talk about 81.
 
V

ViperVisor

Member
Relieved to see Wilt over Russell.

And really should have Duncan and Shaq ahead as well. But metaphysical winner-sauce is a trump card for some people.
 
C

Cipherr

Member
pennanton said:
The LeBron hate is astounding, people here seriously saying not even Top 10? Really? Have we been watching the same sport?
Click to expand...

The hate comes from the peanut gallery of Lebron hecklers that have spent his entire career convincing themselves that his greatness would be overshadowed by flops, or by making it to the finals soooo many times but only winning 2 rings, or for that time where he didnt close out the game for the victory, or because he exercised his right to go play in Miami/Back to Cleveland, or because 'one of his rings came in a shortened season', or 'but he plays in the EAST, or some other silly reason.

These people were sure that sports history wouldn't recognize him as one of the greats. They realize with every list like this that comes out; that they were wrong. That being 2/2 in the finals and never having made it there ever again is NOT considered better than going many times and winning the 2 rings.

History will see him rightfully as one of the best in the history of the sport. That shit has the haters fucking VEXXED.
 
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