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[someguyinahat]

There are definitely some exceptions to the main character being non-white and selling. Wasn't the Walking Dead Tell Tale series one of their best selling ever?

It was also based on a television show in the peak of its popularity.

I wouldn't expect most developers to bother creating minority characters from other countries in case they got it horribly wrong (several examples I could put here!) so perhaps it would be better to compare just the top-selling 150 US-made games to its population for a more accurate read. And no wonder 'Asian/pacific' characters are mildly over-represented when, y'know, Japan, which is again quite a bizarre comparison when one category mentioned is a small local minority and another is an insanely broad section of the global population encompassing dozens of countries, even if combined it's only a small group in the US. If it were taken on a global scale, Asian characters in this top-selling 150 games are then probably under-represented!

Should they really be truncating based on sales? It's disingenuous to say "these games don't exist" and then only point to the games purchased by the majority. When this argument was being made about not enough strong females, I pointed out that the casual game sphere contained not only lots of female protagonists, but also female developers. But nobody seemed to care about that: they only seem to care that there aren't enough on consoles where they themselves are playing. If a game contains a perfectly-represented minority character, and it doesn't sell in the top 150 despite being purchased by gamers who identify with that character, does that mean it doesn't "count"?

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Explain this then. Why do some of the most popular Japanese made games in America feature a main character that looks more white than anything?

Final fantasy:

Cloud looks white. As does squall. Lightning looks white. Tidus. I can go on and on.

Metal Gear

Snake looks white. Raiden. Could go on and on...

Resident evil.

Jill, chris, Leon, Clair.. Once again can go on and on.

So what gives? We had threads on how the Japanese like to make games catered to them yet their main characters often look white with blue eyes and blonde hair, in which is not natural to Japanese.

The thing is, those games were also made w/ a Western audience in mind, particularly white Westerners, and Japan is a very homogenous country. Also at the time of those games they likely had less info on the diversity in Western society than they do now (altho that isn't me implying such). And for characters like Jill, Chris, and such...well, they're technically supposed to be Caucasian so it makes sense for them to look Caucasian rather than Japanese.

In my mind, the whole argument of Japanese designers making games that cater to them has always seemed more in terms of themes, mechanics and nature of play to me, rather than something based around ethnic representation. There's also other societal/cultural aspects there which could explain why very few Japanese games seem to have Japanese characters that actually look Japanese, but I'm not the person who could be qualified to get into that. It would be an interesting and probably revealing topic, however.

I think everyone is misunderstanding this statement. The line of thinking here is that we're all human, and race should be a "non-issue" - black/white/asian/hispanic/etc. should all be treated the same way. It's a statement that we should transcend racism, not ignore it. Delsin from inFamous: SS is a good example. He's Native American, and it's touched upon, but he's mostly just "Delsin" and not stereotyped or categorized into ethnic tropes.

I know most people see statements like this and think "wishful thinking" or "how nice it is to ignore the world's problems", but this is really the line of thinking we need to get to if racism if ever going to go away. Of course, we can't just zip to the finish line and ignore all the baby steps we have to take to get there, but the attack on z-layrex here is a misunderstanding, I think.

Trust me, I know what they're trying to say. There are some shifty people out there who use the issue of race for some sort of gain removed from the issue itself, be it social, financial, or political. That is a real issue and should be addressed, because those sort of people have a lot of clout and their intentions are more to milk the issue for what it's worth, knowing that if it ever is solved, that's a lost of revenue/public image enhancement. I don't take kindly to those sort of people....

....but that isn't actually the case here, because most of us know there's a real problem with representation of different ethnic groups in video games. So that poster's comment comes across as slanderous and an attempt to "sweep it under the rug, throw it in the closet and toss away the key" sort of deal, or at the very least belittles the people who see it as a problem and want to fix it....

...which incidentally, was exactly what I had done a bit earlier in the thread (also not intentional/misinterpreted), and had to correct. If the poster means their opinion to be interpreted correctly, they should state it more clearly, that's all.

 

[Sakujou]

didnt read the whole thread, but what about games made in japan or korea? they are targetted only for their home, but still represent white male characters instead of korean or japanese looking persons.

in asia, they have the stereotype of everything white is superior. i find this so weird and sad.

i would like to see more diversity in games, but unless its a rpg or some indie game, i dont see there much of a change.

still white superior dudebros from the US crushing some 3rd world countries because of "war on terror"

also the whole shit talk about race... it seems to be neccessary because people still judge in those categories... such a sad fact.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

didnt read the whole thread, but what about games made in japan or korea? they are targetted only for their home, but still represent white male characters instead of korean or japanese looking persons.

in asia, they have the stereotype of everything white is superior. i find this so weird and sad.

i would like to see more diversity in games, but unless its a rpg or some indie game, i dont see there much of a change.

still white superior dudebros from the US crushing some 3rd world countries because of "war on terror"

also the whole shit talk about race... it seems to be neccessary because people still judge in those categories... such a sad fact.

9/11 and the financial collapse fucked up a lot of things.

 

[richiek]

Some positive, non-thug, non-criminal element roles....


"Listen up all you greenhorns!"

1. Not a playable character, as far as I can tell.

2. Video game novelizations don't count.

 

[Aureon]

Now Sazh is so stereotypical to be "Token Black Guy"?
Meh. I don't really agree - there's nothing about his char, sans his hair, which i would stop you from criticizing before karma catches up, that points to a stereotype.

He's a token because it's literally the only non-white character you control (or meet!) whole game, but not due to any flaw of the character himself.

And, honestly, if you're Japanese, you shouldn't be faulted for making populations in your game look like what you see every day. You should not assume that, since the USA is 10%+ black and 15%+ hispanic there's also such a degree of racial diversity in other places of the world.
For japan, 98.5% of the population is 'ethnic japanese', and another full percent is Korean\Chinese, meaning there's a quarter of a percentage point of black-skinned people.
You can't really fault a japanese developer for not including people they very, very, very rarely see or interact with.
In the same way, recently Italy has had it's first Black Minister, and some places of the world laughed the whole thing as "lol, get a president, then talk" - but there's less than 1% of black-skinned people in Italy.
You cannot fault people for not integrating with populations that aren't in their territories, really.
Now, USA\UK based studios.. we're talking a different page.

Spoiler

I apologize in advance if any of the ways i referred to 'blacks' is disrespectful, i honestly don't know what terms are and are not appropriate

 

[captainpat]

Every we have a thread like there always posters that mention a character from a game usually one that's been mention a billion times because that's how bad this industry is with diverse representation. I can't tell if they're trying to be helpful or trying to give their favorite game a cookie for something that's not even bare minimum .

 

[Stumpokapow]

You can absolutely fault someone from an ethnically homogeneous country for stereotyping someone else out of ignorance, particularly when the context is the output of a multi-year project intended to be shared and sold all over the world and multiple people in this very discussion have explained how to avoid stereotyping and sanity check your own personal myopia.

Why the hell would ignorance be an excuse?

 

[ShinMaruku]

Capcom in partciuar for such a Japanese company as done better than most western studios with people of colour so there is no excuse for ignorance if those trolls can do it so well. (From Dee Jay to Dudley to Sheva and Josh they have some decent black characters)
I also love how they took a pot shot at colonialism by making the last boss in a game based in Africa a evil British man. XD

 

[Aureon]

You can absolutely fault someone from an ethnically homogeneous country for stereotyping someone else out of ignorance, particularly when the context is the output of a multi-year project intended to be shared and sold all over the world and multiple people in this very discussion have explained how to avoid stereotyping and sanity check your own personal myopia.

Why the hell would ignorance be an excuse?

You can fault them for quality, but not quantity. Which is being done wholesale here.

 

[Bad_Boy]

If it's sincere, I hope you can and it seems like it would be a relatively easy feature to implement.

If this is an insincere way of trying to state that ethnicity is not particularly important, I think it's fair to say that the extent to which particular portrayals make people feel comfortable or less comfortable depends on the depth of the portrayal and the exclusion.

A person of colour typically has no problem with playing as a white character in any one game, they might just have a problem in aggregate with the number of people of colour represented in the medium as a whole and how they're represented. Games that have more player control over the player character are going to feel more conspicuously excluding than games that have less player control, especially as marketing highlights "being able to make the character you want".

A driving game is typically going to be mostly about cars, and thus I suspect most players of colour would find that the colour of the visible wrist skin is probably less significant to them than in most games (and I would hope that a white player would not find it "odd" if a driving game featured only drivers who are persons of colour).

It was a genuine question. I asked because 1. Im brown myself. And 2. Driveclub is one of the few racing games to focus on the driver as an extension of yourself.

But yeah I think its an interesting dynamic. Me being brown, when im only able to play as a white character I dont think much of it. Because im used to it.

Although I hope not, I feel if a white person can only play as a brown character it would probably be more controversial. Especially in a racing game.

IIRC I think Gran Turismo put racing gloves on the drivers hands.

 

[Jinko]

Too much focus on characters of African origin in this thread, there are other ethnicities out there ya know, Hispanic, Arab, Asian (Indian, Bengali,Pakistani etc)

How many games do we see with those minorities ?

 

[Stumpokapow]

You can fault them for quality, but not quantity. Which is being done wholesale here.

You can fault them for quantity. An explanation for why prejudice and myopia exists--and yes rendering a group invisible is a prejudice--is not an excuse for them existing, it's a constant reminder to work towards broadening one's perspective. I'm not American, I was born in a small ethnically homogeneous town, I was maybe 8 or 9 the first time I saw a person of colour. And yet here I am.

Your argument implies that if something is difficult, don't bother trying because people can complain if you don't do things right but not if you don't even try.

 

[Authority]

Do not want to deflect the conversation towards something else but I didn't know this happened regarding Capcom and Resident Evil 5.

Resident Evil 5 Extended Trailer

The Resident Evil 5 controversy began when Capcom showed a trailer for the game at E3 2007. Despite the fact that Capcom would eventually reveal that Resident Evil 5 featured an African partner and white American villains, that early trailer showed nothing but black zombies attacking -- and being shot over and over and over again by -- a white protagonist. It was highly charged imagery that led to allegations of racial insensitivity.

"Since the RE5 controversy, we have become much more aware of how important it is that we are part of the asset creation process early on so that we are able to have a say in the end product," Pfeiffer said to Gamasutra. "We are also designing a lot of our own assets from this side of the pond so that we are able to make strategic pieces of content that make sense for our market. We are working really closely with our producers in Japan to construct these materials for the West and they are open more then ever to hearing our thoughts and ideas for assets."

Direct Source: http://www.1up.com/news/resident-evil-5-racism-capcom

And I think there was nothing racist about it. The event(s) take place in Africa and the main protagonist is there to investigate and protect himself from zombies that are black due to the place just like other zombies were white in other Resident Evil settings.

I really do not see any controversy over here.

 

[ShinMaruku]

You can fault them for quantity. An explanation for why prejudice and myopia exists--and yes rendering a group invisible is a prejudice--is not an excuse for them existing, it's a constant reminder to work towards broadening one's perspective.

Your argument implies that if something is difficult, don't bother trying because people can complain if you don't do things right but not if you don't even try.

That is a symptom of the human race's tendancy to cowardice. But if enough people do take a stand changes can still happen. That tendancy can be over come and should. However my faith in the development and publisher community to do is very low.

And I think there was nothing racist about it. The event(s) take place in Africa and the main protagonist is there to investigate and protect himself from zombies that are black due to the place just like other zombies were white in other Resident Evil settings.

I really do not see any controversy over here.

If anything this game is a shot at colonialsim because the main antagosint and last boss what a rich noble British man. I never saw RE5 as racist. I saw the jungle part as unfortunate because they are on the wrong side of Africa in the game to have the jungle people in there. That is a mistake.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Capcom in partciuar for such a Japanese company as done better than most western studios with people of colour so there is no excuse for ignorance if those trolls can do it so well. (From Dee Jay to Dudley to Sheva and Josh they have some decent black characters)
I also love how they took a pot shot at colonialism by making the last boss in a game based in Africa a evil British man. XD

Lol yes, now that you mention it I missed that jab when playing it.

Spoiler

That boss fight still kinda sucked tho.

Too much focus on characters of African origin in this thread, there are other ethnicities out there ya know, Hispanic, Arab, Asian (Indian, Bengali,Pakistani etc)

How many games do we see with those minorities ?

If you actually read the thread there have been plenty of posts mentioning non-African groups. I even responded about one in particular on this exact same page.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I did not mind that fight the boulder made my day.

Spoiler

CHRRRRIIIIIISSSSS

If somebody wanted to aim shots are re 5 it being in Africa is the wrong part the jungle manjini would be a more valid target but that's because Capcom did not do all their research to know that part of Africa does not have those people. (Partly a issue on capcom and partly a issue of lack of information on Africa)

 

[Thorakai]

You can fault them for quality, but not quantity. Which is being done wholesale here.

These companies have been releasing games overseas for decades. I'm sure that is enough time for them to learn about the vast diversity of their overseas customer base, put a little effort in research oh how to best represent them, and then add them into their game.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

If somebody wanted to aim shots are re 5 it being in Africa is the wrong part the jungle manjini would be a more valid target but that's because Capcom did not do all their research to know that part of Africa does not have those people. (Partly a issue on capcom and partly a issue of lack of information on Africa)

That would require too much work for the mainstream American press to bother with tho x3.

 

[Swissie]

Racism, racism, everywhere! You can just point that racism shotgun anywhere and feel superior about yourself. How about you explain what it is you actually want.

Do you want exact proportional representation? In the OP says 80% white characters versus 75% in US population. Not good enough? What is good enough? Should videogames proportionally reflect the world or just the US? Is it racist for people to make games about what they most closely identify with? If a white person makes a game with a black protagonist, but the character still "acts" (whatever that means) like a white person, is that still bad and racist? If a black person were making games exclusively about black people, would you have the balls to call them out? In the OP someone complains about the avatar having black skin but not moving like a black person? Is that person racist (cause those avatars don't move like I do either)? Should the avatar change movement based on skin colour? Isn't that racist too? Why is he bringing up a black thug in a game about thugs (GTA)? Should I be offended to because all these white characters in videogames are thugs or incessantly killing things too? Do the actions of these different minority groups need to accurately, proportionally reflect reality? If we get proportional representation sorted out for ethnic minorities do we then need to turn our self-righteousness towards all the other kinds of underrepresented minorities too (be it religion, age, politics, or whatever)? Ooo, religion and politics - if those start getting represented correctly, are you gonna start bitching because you don't like what's being said? You're not that narrow-minded, are you?

 

[Stumpokapow]

They want dignity and respect and you clearly offer neither

 

[Orayn]

Some positive, non-thug, non-criminal element roles....

The Elder Scrolls series has the Redguard.

Bethesda, being masters of good taste, gave the race modeled after black people an intelligence penalty in 4/5 games and also an adrenaline rush ability.

 

[Dega]

This sorta bothered me sometimes. I would see so few Hispanic characters even though we make up more of the population than blacks yet you see more of them. Asians as well. When people talk about this issue too it seems like yet again we are under represented.


Oh, it's not just with games either.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Bethesda, being masters of good taste, gave the race modeled after black people an intelligence penalty in 4/5 games and also an adrenaline rush ability.

# Ded.

I never saw them as black. Perhaps it's their shit art style.

 

[SocksForWoks]

So I think that Pokemon is getting much better at diversity and I'm really happy about that.

I really agree with this post.

However does it make sense that I like this added diversity because imo its there to add to the variety of characters rather than just to appease ethnic groups?

When it comes video games I don't care what my character is, as long as the game is an enjoyable experience (good gameplay, great music, lots of details, etc)

 

[Somnid]

I'm curious to see what the average makeup of game developers would be in terms of race. I feel blacks are probably an even smaller group than women. It doesn't not surprise me that representation sucks. It is also interesting that because of so much Dudebro that slapping a minority into a main character which happens to be a mass killer is perhaps counter intuitive given the violent minority stereotypes. I think the answer is really to tone down violent themes before you insert them. In fact toning down violence would do so much to help all groups especially since most of it ends up being the player against brown dudes because from a technical perspective its easier to setup an understandable red versus blue with race.

 

[pelican]

I'm all for equality, but I'm not interested in gaming becoming a Benetton Advert for the sake of it.

 

[Orayn]

# Ded.

I never saw them as black. Perhaps it's their shit art style.

More recent depictions tend to have more Middle East influences as well, but a good portion of the material surrounding them is still pretty clear.

I'm uncomfortable in general with them assigning racial stat bonuses and penalties to different groups that are all clearly human.

 

[Muscle Wizard]

Capcom in partciuar for such a Japanese company as done better than most western studios with people of colour so there is no excuse for ignorance if those trolls can do it so well. (From Dee Jay to Dudley to Sheva and Josh they have some decent black characters)
I also love how they took a pot shot at colonialism by making the last boss in a game based in Africa a evil British man. XD

Dee Jay was designed by Capcom USA.

 

[Proponent]

I just want a create a character option in non- strong story driven narrative games.

Games like Watchdogs, Sunset Overdrive and Evolve are three I personally feel need and deserve it.

Its a shame for Watchdogs, because despite its downgradeation I would have picked it up if it had a create a character feature. But now instead, unless this game has uber glowing reviews, I'll be renting it first and probably holding out for it to drop to 30$ at best.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Dee Jay was designed by Capcom USA.

Dudley, Sheva and Josh were not. Nor was Elena or Balrog.

 

[CraZed]

are you white?

Are you?

 

[Muscle Wizard]

Dudley, Sheva and Josh were not. Nor was Elena or Balrog.

Balrog is literally Mike Tyson, that's why he's "M. Bison" in Japan. One of his win quotes is "I'll bite your ear off".

 

[ShinMaruku]

Balrog is literally Mike Tyson, that's why he's "M. Bison" in Japan. One of his win quotes is "I'll bite your ear off".

Tyson was a great. But still as tiome went they got much better. All fighting games have been really good with how they progressed. SF and Tekken being the best. DOA too Zack and Lisa are great.

 

[Parallax]

Balrog is literally Mike Tyson, that's why he's "M. Bison" in Japan. One of his win quotes is "I'll bite your ear off".

In which game?

 

[FiggyCal]

I thought Dudley was Indian. He has blue eyes. They don't make our eyes in that color.

 

[Infinite]

I thought Dudley was Indian. He has blue eyes. They don't make our eyes in that color.

There are black folk with blue eyes.

 

[pelican]

Now, USA\UK based studios.. we're talking a different page.

OK...So it is OK for a non-white country not to include the minorities in their territory, but American and British developers must include races which are a minority community within the country?

Sorry, but this is nothing but positive-discrimination bollocks.

 

[FiggyCal]

There are black folk with blue eyes.

Nevermind then. I just found this website: http://blackeyesincolor.blogspot.com/2012/07/famous-people.html

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I thought Dudley was Indian. He has blue eyes. They don't make our eyes in that color.

we have eyes of all colors.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I thought Dudley was Indian. He has blue eyes. They don't make our eyes in that color.

My nieces have blue and green eyes. Black people can have blue eyes. It's due to recent european ancestry. Most of the black people in the new world do have some European ancestry.

 

[Shadowplay1979]

With a little tweaking.

Bam freddie mercury!

Which is funny because This guys name is Ash Faruk......which is most likely taken from mercuries real name... Farrokh Bulsara

 

[Shadowplay1979]

Let's set aside the question of whether there is a moral imperative for proportional representation for a second and just say that as someone who enjoys the escapist element of games, I would enjoy having the chance to play as a more varied set of protagonists. The fact that game protagonists are more homogenized than society is disappointing to me.

Played a lot of this one as a kid.

Oh man, one of my fav games, the music was excellent...it had so many odd mechanics to it...remember having a party..and then also having an army of soldiers in your party during battles.

 

[jordan0386]

There are bigots and racists in all business and media.

They also code, market, and publish our favorite games too.

Would be foolish to think otherwise.

We'll always have GTA:SA.

 

[captainpat]

Do not want to deflect the conversation towards something else but I didn't know this happened regarding Capcom and Resident Evil 5.



Direct Source: http://www.1up.com/news/resident-evil-5-racism-capcom

And I think there was nothing racist about it. The event(s) take place in Africa and the main protagonist is there to investigate and protect himself from zombies that are black due to the place just like other zombies were white in other Resident Evil settings.

I really do not see any controversy over here.

If the game has black zombies because of the setting then why am I still playing as a white dude?

I think the issue is that black zombies don't come with the same historical baggage that white zombies come with. There isn't a history of white people being seen as cannibalistic, deranged and needing to be put down.

Not saying Capcom can't have a game with black zombies do those things but the game and its' marketing would've benefited from being more sensitive to those issues.
Anyway, whether or not you think the racist and/or marketing was racist doesn't change there was a controversy.

 

[FiggyCal]

we have eyes of all colors.

I learned something today.

 

[captainpat]

I'm all for equality, but I'm not interested in gaming becoming a Benetton Advert for the sake of it.

Can somebody please explain to me why having diversity for the sake of diversity is a bad thing?

 

[Xenon]

The whole thing about Japanese characters looking American has a lot more to do the history of animation in Japan. After World War II when America came in to help rebuild Japan Japanese became fascinated with all things American. This is especially true of animation. They really liked the fact that the large eyes used by Disney were able to convey a lot of emotions. Other popular media figures also filtered into animation such as Tony Curtis being represented in Speed Racer. Americanized characters have been there from the beginning.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I learned something today.

Yup sometimes things will surprise you.

 

[someguyinahat]

Can somebody please explain to me why having diversity for the sake of diversity is a bad thing?

Ever watch Captain Planet?