Same here. Although at the beginning in EO4 it took me a while to finally understand why Floor Jump is bad.
Etrian Odyssey Community Thread: The Ongoing Adventures of Fight and Heal
- Thread starter omlet
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I found EO2 easier than 1 in some respects. Its class-specific force skills are absurdly powerful, like a Protector's ability to nullify all damage to the party for one turn, or a Dark Hunter's ability to completely bind any enemy (even bosses!) with one attack, and so on. Coupled with the Hexer's amazing Revenge skill and I was able to take down the post-game boss without taking any damage at all!
If you didn't do postgame in EO1 and you knew about Immunize, it honestly wasn't that bad. I think the only place I got stuck on for a while was the first floor of the fourth stratum since moving sand + EO1's relatively terrible mapping system meant you basically had to memorize the floor. And because my normal random encounter strategy of elemental chaser + multi target elemental magic stopped working since the enemies had differing weaknesses.
Hm, does EO(U)1 have the most difficult sixth stratum overall? EO4's sixth stratum wasn't too bad for me (although I made liberal use of Holy Blessing), and apparently Warped Savior with chemicals isn't too difficult (although I really want to beat WS without chemicals someday).
For enemy skills Wolf Pack from Fenrir is pretty key. It doesn't count as a buff but it improves attack power. You also need a Torrent from any of the elemental dragons.
Those are the easy part.
The hard part is getting rank 8+ Analysis, Action Boost, Wrath's Might, and Mastery skills duplicated onto everyone's grimoires. So what I did was stack Bloody Offence, Warrior Song, and Analysis on my attackers, use Action Boost for triple actions, and added Wolf Pack for even more damage.
Here are my grimoires:
EO4's last stratum is the easiest by far. Not counting the postgame bosses, I think I'd rank the difficulty of postgame areas like EO1* > EOU > EO3 > EO2 > EO4
I honestly don't remember EO2's last stratum being too bad, but then again I did have a Hexer in my party and she basically made every random encounter a joke.
*I didn't get to postgame in EO1 but if it's like EOU but without the balance changes and the improved mapping system, then it's gotta be nightmare mode.
NormalFish
Banned
Having just beaten it recently, the grimoire system kind of reminds me of a lackluster bastardization of FFIX's skill system. I'd be pretty happy if they moved the skills from a low% drop to some sort of consistent but difficult 'achievement' of sorts.
Like omlet, I've never personally played it (cause I'm a wimp) but well...
looks fun!
Keep in mind this is with the simplistic mapping system of EO1.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
"Dislike" is a good word for me, yeah. It was...not 5? Well, that and it broke as much as it fixed, forced a lot of twee chatterbox Anime stuff-for-Anime-stuff's-sake up in the player's face, shoved team-building into the shadows and generally felt misaimed for a DC.
It's wierd; alot of DC series in history have went with this "lighter, fairer" for those who get shook at the brutal indifference of the crawl and the reliance, no, a celebration of imagination to not only survive but to thrive in these games. Atlus' Untolds did fair alot better than Elminage Ibun did by a longshot, though!
It's why I say "play on normal and have fun gittin' gud in these, cuz that's something you have inside you and you can't replicate that feeling". Speaking of which...
It's restriction. You find yourself making up for those breadth of skills 3 & 4 use. You'd be surprised how little money and time you waste when you plan ahead (1 & 2 deifinately require thoughtful planning, like Tuffy shows).
Like omlet, I've never personally played it (cause I'm a wimp) but well...
looks fun!
Keep in mind this is with the simplistic mapping system of EO1.
Keep in mind that you will exceed the icon limit if you do use them to indicate the pits. EOU simplfies the floor by removing a lot of them though.
Not sure how it is in OG EO1 but in EOU you can actually see those pits on the floor before you step in them. The ground tiles look different.
They look exactly like every other tile. Imagine just coming to the floor and seeing nothing for miles. Nothing visible anyway...
Like omlet, I've never personally played it (cause I'm a wimp) but well...
looks fun!
Keep in mind this is with the simplistic mapping system of EO1.
I hate that floor with a passion (played on Untold). It made me realize the story mode party isn't going to work for post game content.
Story mode party works fine for post game content. They can even beat the boss on expert mode with the right grimoire setup.
I think the general idea was that you had to watch the paths of the FOEs to figure out where it was safe to walk. B29F was even worse because you had more warps than icons to mark them.
Thankfully, the sequels made the post-game floor gimmicks a bit more reasonable.
Then I don't have patience
The FOEs on that floor, and the ones on the floor below killed my party fast. And the Ice Dragon was thrashing them with sleep.
Then I don't have patience
The FOEs on that floor, and the ones on the floor below killed my party fast. And the Ice Dragon was thrashing them with sleep.
On Expert mode, you shouldn't mess with Depth Divers basically ever and avoid the Bane Lizards until you're over level 90, and even then you should approach with caution. The Nether Tortoises and Songbirds are easy pickings for a level 80+ party if you have points in Fire Wall and you should farm them for juicy experience.
For the ice dragon just equip some sleep-preventing accessories? They only cost 3000en.
I don't remember why I didn't buy those items. Maybe because I needed to farm the materials and got lazy?
Anyways, need to finish the game on Classic mode before trying it again.
Winnie the Pimp
Member
For EO IV, is a party with Landsknecht, Dancer and Nightseeker in the front and an Arcanist+ RM in the back viable to beat the game for a newbie?
I currently have LK, Dancer, Fort. in the front and Medic + RM in the back but i want to swap Fort + Medic out later when i unlock the classes.
The thing is, no Fortress means no tank, who would take the damage besides my LK? hmm
I currently have LK, Dancer, Fort. in the front and Medic + RM in the back but i want to swap Fort + Medic out later when i unlock the classes.
The thing is, no Fortress means no tank, who would take the damage besides my LK? hmm
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
i still remember in the first game the jp version the paladins taunt was literally broken lol as in ineffective.
With no Fortress, it's not your L that takes damage, it's the entire party.
You'd be wasting your time trying to make an L into a tank. They're durable in the sense of not needing to be babysat like a Bloodsurging Nightseeker needs to be, but they're not made to tank. If you try to turn L into a tank, like maybe by subbing F, well, they can sort of tank, but you'd be better off with just having an F in the first place in that case, because when it really matters the L won't be able to tank as well as an F and if it's trying to tank it won't be able to do the kind of damage it's designed to do with link setups.
There aren't many enemies in the game that can kill you with one hit. If you have either a Medic's strong healing or a Dancer with skills allocated for healing and/or an Arcanist subbing Medic, you will probably be okay for most of the game with no tank but your healer unit(s) will be working harder. Some of the tougher bosses may give you trouble if you are used to having a tank in your party's lineup, but people have cleared the game with no tank, it just takes a different approach from how I played the game. I typically take my F with me when hunting postgame bosses in EOIV since I'm used to the flow of battle when she's present so I'm not sure what the good strategies are for fighting them without a tank, but I know people have done it.
You really can't go wrong with Nightseeker.
N on the front for sure. Also whenever you use a "redirect attacks to the fortress" skill you move the F to the back for that turn
Winnie the Pimp
Member
What about a LK with a Nightseeker sub later on then?
Also: Is Fan Dance worth it for Dancer?
Yes. Is it still bugged?
L/N is not a good idea long-term because L works on physical power and elemental attacks (linkers) while N works purely off status ailments for its damage, so they really don't complement each other.
The only thing N really offers as a subclass is dual wielding. The main class that is useful for is a class like a Dancer who is built for stuns (which is highly effective, that's how I built my dancer and I think Mauricio did the same). In the time frame where you unlock subclasses but haven't unlocked Bushi, there really aren't many good sub options for L, I think, so N is fine for short term but I think you'll find that their skills don't really enhance the L much at all. You can Rest your L later to reset subclass along with skill points.
Best subs for N are A (for Ailment Boost) and B (for Blood Surge, Endure, Surge Mastery, Power Boost, and Defiance). Bushi also makes a good sub for L but you won't unlock that for a while, as mentioned.
For your other question, Fan Dance is absolutely a good skill to get for your Dancer if you have no tank. If you have a tank, you can consider only putting a few points in it to get to Sword Dance and Mist Dance.
NOTE: Fan Dance + Speed Boost is bugged, according to people who have done detailed testing (which is not me). Do not take Fan Dance past 3 if you're putting points in Speed Boost because Speed Boost will nullify Fan Dance's evasion bonus and apply a much lower evasion bonus instead. Edit: So for example, 3 Fan Dance + 10 Speed Boost = OK. 10 Fan Dance + 0 Speed Boost = OK. 10 Fan Dance + 1 Speed Boost = bad. 10 Fan Dance + 10 Speed Boost = bad.
Chrono Helix
Member
The cast of Bravely Default have unique models for each job, so unique portraits for EO characters might be doable.
I can't decide between whether 3 or 4 is my favourite. I found EOU a disappointment, although that didn't stop me from fighting my way to the postgame boss on Expert mode. Didn't bother grinding grimoire stones to beat him.
I was rather uninterested in EOU2 since it's a remake of the game I consider the least fun. But the new additions do look tempting...
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I'm not a big Medic fan but if you're going with either of those, definitly N in front, you're going to need the damage.
My team was the one you just posted, it wasn't optimal but it was good enough to defeat everything the game threw at me:
L/B D/N N/A
A/M RM/I
Fortress is really useful at first, but by the midgame my team could take the hits, with my Land being more tanky and having awesome equipment plus my Dancer evaiding almost everything thanks to max Fan Dance.
Go Nightseeker/Arcanist, you want the Ailment boost.
For Dancer, I usually go Dancer/Nightseeker for Dual weapons + Sword Dance + Mist Dance is great. You just auto attack every turn that you aren't dancing and it does wonders with Linking.
Yeah, to explain in more details, Nightseeker has two main types of skills they work with: "throw" skills and melee skills. The line of Throw skills don't do much damage (the point of them is to cause status ailments) and are actually ranged attacks meaning they do full damage from the back row. The N's normal sword attacks and melee skills require her to be in the front row or else they will do much less damage. Swift Edge is N's best damage skill and you will need the N up front (and max rank Speed Boost) to maximize that damage.
Remember you can freely change formation during battle in EOIV. This means you can start off battles with N in the back row where it's safe and use Throw skills first, then move to front row when ready to do melee attacks, but if you have a F and M in the group you really won't need to do this except maybe on some boss fights, because the F and M can keep the N safe even in the front row.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I had my NS in the backrow 90% doing the usual Venom Throwing, but every now and then I got her in front to do some Swift Edge magic, I love how useful the class is, even if the post game dungeon was just VENOM THROW the game.
I didn't start with the game with a NS(I had a Sniper which was useless so I retired her for my NS) so I don't know how useful they are for the first half of the game, I usually recommend the L as the main damage dealer(aside of the obligatory RM) as NS seem to take more effort and time to actually start doing crazy damage.
From 1 to 40 my N spent most of her time doing blind, paralyze, or sleep on the first turn or two, while D and R got buffs going, then using Ice Knife or basic attacks to help finish everything off. Worked fine for me until venom throw funtimes got going around level 40.
I feel drawing unique portraits for each class is more time consuming than modeling a set of class costumes on the same body type, but that's just me.
And EO2 has great atmosphere, so if they remake the game to be less grindy and unbalanced, it might become the best game in the series. And fix grimoires, of course.
It's really too bad that one of the most appealing elements of the series is no more, though. The FM music really added something special, and I will probably never get over it going away in EO4. And then the cancellation of the EO4 FM album. I can't.
The cancellation of the EO4 FM album was bizarre. My friend asked Yuzo Koshiro about that when he was at MAGFest last year and if I remember right, he said that even Koshiro was surprised to find out it was cancelled. So it doesn't seem like it was his decision.
Just got into the series with EO4 last year after 6 or so years of my friend bugging me to give them a try. Enjoyed it so much I spent over 150 hours getting everything. Hoping to start Untold during winter break. I went into this series as someone who doesn't like first person dungeon crawlers, but my love for class-based systems and the fun design won me over. Looking forward to the rest of the series, though I worry I'll get my butt kicked since EO4 was apparently the easiest.
EO2 with Hexers is the easiest.
Don't worry though, EO4 may be on the easy side, but it's not really that big of a difference from the other games. Since you've done everything in EO4, you should have a good idea of what the games expect from you, EO games really are not that difficult once you get to that point.
Thanks. Maybe Dandy Crocodile can remake that one with Shishou. I left most of the class portrait selection to him. I thought it would be Raquna since someone requested in the EOIV thread that she be featured, but since she made it into the main banner, Shishou probably should be featured, shouldn't she...
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
now get EO3 and Untold.... and soon Persona Q and hopefully Untold 2 next year, IT NEVER ENDS!
I'll be getting EO remakes for 2nd and 3rd.
Still debating whether to get PersonaQ, lol.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Everything was fun and games till you reached the Abyssal God, even if my Hoplite made the battle possible, dem anti skills. I avoided the broken as hell combos, even if I did spam Dark Ether.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
EO3 is the best at everything(except balance lol), EO1/2 were great but 3 turned me into the insane EO fan I am today.
Shishou for both Protector, Shogun and Imperial, please~
Only complain I'd have for the sixth stratum of EOIII was the lack of a third battle theme. It's somewhat compensated by the bonus boss having his own theme (a pretty great one at that), but I'd say it kinda made exploring the postgame a bit less exciting.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Hopefully Untold 3 will give us a battle track for the amazing final stratum.
EO1 original was the best imho. The sixth strata was absurdly difficult and i had to use wall tiles to mark pits in that famous floor. But mapping it all was such a satisfaction!
Also bosses had patterns you had to write down for you to actually beat them because else you'd get wiped out at specific turns (every 3 turns iirc), unless you used protector boosted defense or smth. IIRC i went 3 medic+ ronin+ dh. Medic were just broken with the item that gave you spell boost and level 10 all resist spell at start of the game. Literally unkillable. Plus they had Caduceus that was an amazing offensive skill that binded head iirc. DH had binds that were essential for a lot of monsters. Ronin had the highest attack damage in the game with the Masamune i think.
EO2 was easier because of the hexer abuse even if you could find some absurdly strong random foes on the sixth strata (Muckdiles) that instakilled all ur party unless you head bound them. But hexer revenge + max hp boosters = one shot everything.
EDIT: didn't play 3 and 4 tbh. The third seemed much more abusable for what little i played it and never touched the fourth.
Also bosses had patterns you had to write down for you to actually beat them because else you'd get wiped out at specific turns (every 3 turns iirc), unless you used protector boosted defense or smth. IIRC i went 3 medic+ ronin+ dh. Medic were just broken with the item that gave you spell boost and level 10 all resist spell at start of the game. Literally unkillable. Plus they had Caduceus that was an amazing offensive skill that binded head iirc. DH had binds that were essential for a lot of monsters. Ronin had the highest attack damage in the game with the Masamune i think.
EO2 was easier because of the hexer abuse even if you could find some absurdly strong random foes on the sixth strata (Muckdiles) that instakilled all ur party unless you head bound them. But hexer revenge + max hp boosters = one shot everything.
EDIT: didn't play 3 and 4 tbh. The third seemed much more abusable for what little i played it and never touched the fourth.
It took until the fourth game for one with decent balance, haha.
EOIII was the first EO game I played, it's still my favorite even if it has a few issues.
That's my biggest complaint about the third game. Made a little worse by the fact that the second battle theme shows up earlier than the other games.
At least EOIII has the best boss themes.