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[midnightAI]

There is no reason to switch phones every 2 years, Apple* made you think you do and they get the money from you. But people who would not buy new phones kinda have to buy a new one if the battery isn't lasing a day because they got old and its gluend in the phones case.
Apple got sued for reducing bat. capacity over time per software. They want you bad on that 2 year cycle be it by advertisement magic or planned hardware obsolescence (bettery degrading is a god send for all them phone makers), gluing them in is not a cost or design decision, its to sell more product.

Never had an iPhone, currently have a Pixel 6, it's not the phone manufacturers who do this to be honest (in the UK), its the phone providers such as EE who offer 2 year contracts, and because we are so used to paying for a phone over the two years its no real hassle to get a new contract with what is essentially seen as a free phone (its obviously not a free phone as you are paying a monthly contract, but once you are used to/and happy to pay for that then thats what you do whether we are mugs for doing that is a different issue). It may be a UK thing, but this is VERY common, almost everyone I know is on a contract and gets a new phone every 2 years. For me personally, I'm a bit of a technology nerd so I like the latest shiny thing, even considering a flip phone next (which this legislation could impact due to how batteries are placed in flip phones currently)

But basically, like I said, its personal preference, me, never had any issues with battery (I have an old Huawei here, 6 years old, non replaceable battery, works perfectly fine, no battery issues and never had to replace a premium phone because of a deterioration in battery life, strangely, old phones that you could replace the battery I had to replace the battery every year or so because of deterioration, but batteries have improved since then) and I dont want potential phone design affected by legislation, I agree that for others swapping batteries is the priority. If phone manufacturers get around these and phone design isn't affected then cool, not that we'd ever know that because I doubt any manufacturers would come out showing designs that say 'here's what we could have done without legislation'.

 

[Patrick S.]

Never had an iPhone, currently have a Pixel 6, it's not the phone manufacturers who do this to be honest (in the UK), its the phone providers such as EE who offer 2 year contracts, and because we are so used to paying for a phone over the two years its no real hassle to get a new contract with what is essentially seen as a free phone (its obviously not a free phone as you are paying a monthly contract, but once you are used to/and happy to pay for that then thats what you do). It may be a UK thing, but this is VERY common, almost everyone I know is on a contract and gets a new phone every 2 years. For me personally, I'm a bit of a technology nerd so I like the latest shiny thing, even considering a flip phone next (which this legislation could impact due to how batteries are placed in flip phones currently)

My coworker who sold me his old iPhone 12 Pro Max has a contract where he pays almost €100/month for his new iPhone 14 Pro Max, and I think he paid like €350-€400 up front, too. Thats just crazy.... almost three grand just for a phone, during two years...

As a contrast; I rarely use mobile data except for WhatsApp or watching a Youtube video or two when I have to wait for the wife while she's browsing at the clothing store So my prepaid plan which is €7.99 for unlimited calls and messages to all German providers, and has two or three GB of full speed LTE data, which I never ever use up, is plenty fine for me. I like shiny tech, too, but for me, the value of paying more than twelve times of what I'm currently paying, just to have a shinier iPhone and data I'll never use, just isn't there.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

when you don't use spotify and store your music locally, 128gb is small as fuck. My music folder is 200 gigs of FLAC audio and some MP3s.

Once you go FLAC it is hard to go back.

 

[Blade2.0]

I guess I don't understand who this is for.

 

[midnightAI]

My coworker who sold me his old iPhone 12 Pro Max has a contract where he pays almost €100/month, and I think he paid like €350-€400 up front, too. Thats just crazy.... almost three grand just for a phone, during two years...

As a contrast; I rarely use mobile data except for WhatsApp or watching a Youtube video or two when I have to wait for the wife while she's browsing at the clothing store So my prepaid plan which is €7.99 for unlimited calls and messages to all German providers, and has two or three GB of full speed LTE data, which I never ever use up, is plenty fine for me. I like shiny tech, too, but for me, the value of paying more than twelve times of what I'm currently paying, just to have a shinier iPhone and data I'll never use, just isn't there.

Well thats the issue isnt it. We want expensive phones and so we see that paying £40 a month over 2 years is better than £600+ up front (thats my approx situation), well, not better but easier to pay for even though it costs more in the long run.

 

[kittoo]

3/4 billion people in the EU and a third of mobile users are iPhone

They would not pull out

Are you sure?

 

[bitbydeath]

Eh, I’d rather they didn’t.
If the battery dies in 5-10+ years then you’re probably due for a new one anyway.
And you know someone’s going to try put in batteries not designed for the phone and complain when they explode.

 

[kikkis]

Why not just mandate manufacturers must sell official batteries and keep right to repair? Why does everything have to be able to be done by 4-year old? Just take your official battery replacement and phone to repair shop.

Replaceable batteries are terrible if they are like in mid 2000s. Much less capacity since enclosure has to be bigger in phone and battery itself so it doesnt bend. Plus waterproofing is much less effective and so really instead of battery failing which costs 10 dollars you have your entire 200 dollar phone failing. So much for the enviroment, thanks EU!

 

[Trogdor1123]

Do you guys have constant rain or are you using your phones in the summer pool or what???? Drop them in the toilet too much? Can't seem to stop spilling your drink on them??

Is waterproofness really a thing that you DESPERATELY NEED in day to day situations? With some basic intelligence and common sense, alongside being careful with technology, you'll never need any of this "waterproof" crap.

The number of phones that get water damage from indirect exposure is way higher than you think. Water proof is a great feature

 

[Trogdor1123]

There is no reason to switch phones every 2 years, Apple* made you think you do and they get the money from you. But people who would not buy new phones kinda have to buy a new one if the battery isn't lasing a day because they got old and its gluend in the phones case.
Apple got sued for reducing bat. capacity over time per software. They want you bad on that 2 year cycle be it by advertisement magic or planned hardware obsolescence (bettery degrading is a god send for all them phone makers), gluing them in is not a cost or design decision, its to sell more product.

A person can upgrade whenever they want, they don’t need you to approve their reason.

 

[Fbh]

Nice.
The thing I miss the most from old phones was being able to go the store, pick up a new official battery for $20 and then replace it yourself in 10 seconds.

Replacing a phone battery where I live sucks. You can go with the official service which is overpriced as fuck, or you can go with third party services which are often untrustworthy and will just use the cheapest Chinese battery they could find.

 

[willothedog]

Are you sure?

google says 748,980,405 so yep.

 

[BadBurger]

Thank Christ

 

[newtypepilot]

suck it apple

 

[Pagusas]

Do you guys have constant rain or are you using your phones in the summer pool or what???? Drop them in the toilet too much? Can't seem to stop spilling your drink on them??

Is waterproofness really a thing that you DESPERATELY NEED in day to day situations? With some basic intelligence and common sense, alongside being careful with technology, you'll never need any of this "waterproof" crap.

Not a day to day need, but it has come in handy a lot when jogging while it’s raining or when I accidentally drop my phone in our pool.

You know what else I also don’t need day to day? A swappable battery.

Give the choice I’ll take waterproofing 9 out of 10 times.

 

[Mistake]

Not a day to day need, but it has come in handy a lot when jogging while it’s raining or when I accidentally drop my phone in our pool.

You know what else I also don’t need day to day? A swappable battery.

Give the choice I’ll take waterproofing 9 out of 10 times.

I get what you mean, but this can easily be solved with a phone case. Also, as long as phones have buttons, ports, holes for speakers/mic, your phone will never be waterproof anyway

 

[daveonezero]

I think it would be better if governments stayed out of anyone’s business….

 

[poppabk]

I know we aren't going back to the days where you can just pop the back off the phone and switch the battery, but there is no way that phone manufacturers can't make it easier to replace a battery. It doesn't need to be glued in with the strongest glue known to man, that shit isn't going anywhere.

 

[TransTrender]

Now I'm worried all the battery lifecycle improvements that have been rolled in over the last 5 years or so will now go out the window because fuck you, just replace it, get fucked assholes, here you go!

This saves them money but will add cost to us, and you better believe there will be no savings on our end. They'll just sell us shitty expensive replacement batteries.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

There is no reason to switch phones every 2 years, Apple* made you think you do and they get the money from you. But people who would not buy new phones kinda have to buy a new one if the battery isn't lasing a day because they got old and its gluend in the phones case.
Apple got sued for reducing bat. capacity over time per software. They want you bad on that 2 year cycle be it by advertisement magic or planned hardware obsolescence (bettery degrading is a god send for all them phone makers), gluing them in is not a cost or design decision, its to sell more product.

Also, I’m sure there use to be some phones that was waterproof with a removable battery. As long it didn’t go deep into water. I’m apple user. U get bout 3 years at best with these batteries. If I could replace them. Maybe wouldn’t change my phone only 4-5 years then. Instead of 2-3 years.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Not an expert, but won't this make devices harder to waterproof?

Buy a waterproof case. My gopro works underwater, even has three spare batteries.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

nice.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Now I'm worried all the battery lifecycle improvements that have been rolled in over the last 5 years or so will now go out the window because fuck you, just replace it, get fucked assholes, here you go!

This saves them money but will add cost to us, and you better believe there will be no savings on our end. They'll just sell us shitty expensive replacement batteries.

Tim.... this you?

 

[TransTrender]

Tim.... this you?

No.
This is my social media handler.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Waterproofing a Phone with removable batteries is trivial. My electric toothbrush is waterproof as is my analog dive watch.

All that’s needed are regular ass gaskets. This is not an engineering problem. Never has been.

 

[RoboFu]

It just makes your phone bigger.. and puts a cheap plastic slide cover on the back .

Idk I’ve never had a problem with my battery losing charge since the early 2000s phones and I still have a iPhone 11 Pro.

Would be funny if the top phone makers just started only selling cheap ass phone in EU.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Would be funny if the top phone makers just started only selling cheap ass phone in EU.

Considering the size of affluent population in the EU is the largest in the world - not likely.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Hopefully this spreads. Tech companies intentionally make repairs as tedious and expensive as possible in order to push customers towards new completely unnecessary purchases out of convenience in order to pump their profits. This not only leads to needless E-Waste, but it preys on the consumer while also punishing the poor and the ignorant. These companies should be mainly focused on solutions to current problems. Not pumping all their cash into the next product while everyone else gets left behind unless they pony up the cash to stay current. The chase of infinite profits and growth is slowly but surely reaching its breaking point at the moment as inflation rises and wages remain stagnant. These companies will be in for a rude awakening if things continue along their current path. They will hit a very hard wall relatively soon that illustrates just how cash strapped the average consumer is these days.


Apple, Samsung, and the rest of them are going to wake up one day and realize that 70% of their customer base can no longer realistically afford their latest overpriced and overhyped toy. Not only that they will have put all their eggs into the "new hotness" basket instead of properly preparing themselves to deal with older products and the parts that are needed to repair them. They will have angry customers, angry investors, and it will take at minimum months for them to even start to address the issues.


That is the next small catastrophe that I see on the horizon.

 

[Doczu]

Anyone complaining how phones will start getting bigger to compensate the space needed should check the new Nokia G22.

And other than that: stop bitching, complaining, and standing with those that would want to take the power away from you.
After two years i want to change my phone's battery, not the phone itself.

I'm sick and tired of ~2 year life cycles and the FOMO created by tech companies.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Anyone complaining how phones will stsrt getting bigger to compensate the space needed shpuld check the new Nokia G22.

And other than that: stop bitching, complaining, and standing eith those that would want to take the power away from you.
After two years i want to change my phone's battery, not the phone itself.

I'm sick and tired of ~2 year life cycles and the FOMO created by tech companies.

Its just bullshit. You spend god knows how much on a phone these days and within 2 years it might as well be a paperweight in the eyes of the manufacturer.


There needs to be laws and regulations in place to protect the consumers. Especially now that things are so fucking tight for most people.

 

[kittoo]

google says 748,980,405 so yep.

That's only .748 billion people. You wrote 3-4 billion. Am I missing something?

Edit- oh you wrote 3 by 4, which means .75. I read that as 3 to 4 billion. My bad.

 

[kikkis]

Considering the size of affluent population in the EU is the largest in the world - not likely.

No, but are eu people really interested in iphone given weak euro compared to dollar. Iphones are already super expensive in euros.

 

[Raonak]

Cool in concept, but, how does this work with waterproofing. Cause for me waterproofing is more useful than removable batteries.

EDIT: yay an exception!

 

[01011001]

Cool in concept, but, how does this work with waterproofing. Cause for me waterproofing is more useful than removable batteries.

EDIT: yay an exception!

uhm... there are waterproof phones with user serviceable batteries...

what you see below is a Galaxy S5, which is IP67 rated

the difference between the water resistance of that phone, compared to a modern Samsung or iPhone would only come into play in absolute extreme situations, like dropping the phone into a river and not being able to find it for more than half an hour.

 

[CGNoire]

Did my conversation piece/question tigger you? It's a heavily advertised feature and is nice piece of mind when it's raining/at the pool etc... If it is an issue (didn't say it was), it ought to be considered.

I used my S3 to film outside in the pouring rain a number of times while and never got the inside wet what so ever. At least when rain is concerned its a non issue.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Cool in concept, but, how does this work with waterproofing. Cause for me waterproofing is more useful than removable batteries.

EDIT: yay an exception!

Edit: sorry, I’ve read the op wrong.

 

[CGNoire]

uhm... there are waterproof phones with user serviceable batteries...

what you see below is a Galaxy S5, which is IP67 rated

the difference between the water resistance of that phone, compared to a modern Samsung of iPhone would only come into play in absolute extreme situations, like dropping the phone into a river and not being able to find it for more than half an hour.

Yep the gap between the cover and fhe important components is too small to allow water in easily since there is no easy way for diffusion to occur.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

No, but are eu people really interested in iphone given weak euro compared to dollar. Iphones are already super expensive in euros.

Yes, they are for the same reason everybody is - it's a great phone with great interconnectivity if you own a Macbook.

 

[Melon Husk]

I would like to see designs with a compartment for the battery with a hatch like microSD cards and SIM cards have.

I think the legislation also needs to think about the availability of replacement batteries. Almost every phone model has a custom soft pouch battery pack and that is not awesome from a longevity standpoint.

No thanks, waterproof slim, light phones that are not design hampered by removable back and using premium materials such as glass/aluminium please.

A waterproof slim phone and user replaceable battery are not mutually exclusive. It's a matter of engineering.

edit: There is an alternative option to removable batteries that the EU could have voted for.
That is to limit the maximum average discharge voltage of lithium ion cells to 4.05 Volts, which would lower the depth of discharge enough to double or even triple the lifetime of the battery, all else equal. At the moment, li-ion batteries in handheld electronics go up to 4.20 Volts and that only gives them ~300 full cycles. The price you pay for doubling-tripling the charge cycle is 20% drop in maximum capacity.

So I think they should give the option of:
1. easily removable and repleaceable battery
or
2. battery with minimum lifetime of 900 full charge cycles
and let the people and market decide which they prefer. Batteries should still be user repairable, though, no matter what. I'm not anti-repair.

Anyone complaining how phones will start getting bigger to compensate the space needed should check the new Nokia G22.

And other than that: stop bitching, complaining, and standing with those that would want to take the power away from you.
After two years i want to change my phone's battery, not the phone itself.

I'm sick and tired of ~2 year life cycles and the FOMO created by tech companies.

Well there we go. That battery must be massive.
"3-day battery life and is capable of 800 full charging cycles,"
edit: it's 5,050mAh on paper but over-rationing may effectively cut it to 4000mAh.

 

[midnightAI]

I would like to see designs with a compartment for the battery with a hatch like microSD cards and SIM cards have.

I think the legislation also needs to think about the availability of replacement batteries. Almost every phone model has a custom soft pouch battery pack and that is not awesome from a longevity standpoint.

A waterproof slim phone and user replaceable battery are not mutually exclusive. It's a matter of engineering.

edit: There is an alternative option to removable batteries that the EU could have voted for.
That is to limit the maximum average discharge voltage of lithium ion cells to 4.05 Volts, which would lower the depth of discharge enough to double or even triple the lifetime of the battery, all else equal. At the moment, li-ion batteries in handheld electronics go up to 4.20 Volts and that only gives them ~300 full cycles. The price you pay for doubling-tripling the charge cycle is 20% drop in maximum capacity.

So I think they should give the option of:
1. easily removable and repleaceable battery
or
2. battery with minimum lifetime of 900 full charge cycles
and let the people and market decide which they prefer. Batteries should still be user repairable, though, no matter what. I'm not anti-repair.

You see, I am all for that, have some designs with replaceable and some without, dont prevent design innovation due to legislation.

But the issue there is that the whole point of this isnt just to make things better for the user, it's all about waste (I've argued that wont work and may actually be worse), anyway, they want ALL phones to have replaceable, they dont really care what the market wants, they have already taken that decision out of our hands. I would like it if they at least allowed manufacturers to have say, 50% of their models replaceable and then in another 5 years revisit it to see what the market wants, how innovation would be affected, how waste has been affected etc.

Well there we go. That battery must be massive.
"3-day battery life and is capable of 800 full charging cycles,"
edit: it's 5,050mAh on paper but over-rationing may effectively cut it to 4000mAh.

The G22 is a pretty bad example though, its not a premium phone at all, it has good battery life because the internals are a bit crap so suck up less battery life. Also cheap components generally take up less space (a low powered CPU can be tiny compared to a high end one, same goes for camera sensors etc.). The repair kit is fine, and I'm sure its very easy for many of us who are tech savvy, but would a regular non tech person want to even attempt the G22 repair? It is a nice solution though rather than just a crappy slide off plastic backed phone. I hate plasticky feeling phones and unfortunately many phones with replaceable batteries have very cheap feeling thin plastic covers on the back.

 

[Haemi]

This is great news!

And will not make phones worse. Look at the iPhone 4. The back and battery where not glued in:

ifixit iPhone 4

 

[Doczu]

Well there we go. That battery must be massive.
"3-day battery life and is capable of 800 full charging cycles,"
edit: it's 5,050mAh on paper but over-rationing may effectively cut it to 4000mAh.

Nah, just like midnightAI mentioned - this is not a top of the line premium phone.

Which is fine, Nokia is worth jack shit on the mobile market so they can't try to push a flagship currently, they went the "green no waste way". And that is good PR for them. Better even, cause i really don't like the smartphone arms race. It really goes nowhere and we generate a ton of electric waste.

My wife has a 3.5 year old Xiaomi and had to change her battery but you couldn't get any official on the market and you had no chance to change it yourself. Now the crappy replacement pack is also dying and we feel forced to replace the whole phone
I'm also getting to that point, almost 3yo phone and no official replacement batteries are available, unless i want to send it to an official service, but those cost almost as much as the phone is worth now. Batteries should be more universal and available for longer (or even just available to buy).

This is just so ridiculous and as much as i despise the EU regulating almost everything i am for going back to replacable batteries.

 

[Mato]

I have a perfectly fine old school kindle that I can't use anymore because the battery doesn't last more than 5 minutes. I opened it up, had to almost destroy the case, then the battery was locked behind a metal case, screwed with some obscure screw type, and behind was a LiPo battery glued to the device, that's probably to dangerous to remove with force. Fuck off with that.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

The idea is great but they made an exception that devices which are waterproof can still be sold with non replaceable batteries. Sadly nothing will change because the manufactures will of course exploit this exception and continue sell phones with glued in batteries.

High end devices sure, but I wonder how much of the market actually gets/will get certified.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You know, how long they take to do these votes, they're just helping new models become new models.

They couldn't do this vote along with the universal USB-C vote for Apple?

 

[Mistake]

You know, how long they take to do these votes, they're just helping new models become new models.

They couldn't do this vote along with the universal USB-C vote for Apple?

I thought the EU already did and it had a set date? I remember hearing something about it

 

[zeomax]

I would like to see designs with a compartment for the battery with a hatch like microSD cards and SIM cards have.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I thought the EU already did and it had a set date? I remember hearing something about it

They did, which is why the new iPhone will have USB-C. I was just saying, it would be nice if they held a vote for all of this at once, so the battery would have to be replaceable in the 15 as well. Now one has to wait until next year for that (iPhone 16, etc).

 

[IntentionalPun]

It's weird I've never had any problem w/ phone batteries losing charge.

My phone is going on it's 4th year no problem.

But anyways, will be interesting to see the designs surrounding this. I imagine you just need to be able to use regular screws or something? Only thing that annoys me are little rubber nubs to fill holes and how they pop out sometimes.

 

[xrnzaaas]

This is great news. No more bs about doing this to make the phone waterproof since customer service still likes to reject warranties because of the supposed water damage.