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[Deleted member 231381]

I'd like to suggest a new rule: Fanboi isn't allowed to start wars against France and drag naíve new players along

Have you made a choice, FACE? Also, I'd be impressed if fanboi declared any wars on France, what with being in Anatolia and all.

 

[Fitz]

What caused the mixed feelings? I've not played multiplayer in months, so I can't really judge how restrictive/non-restrictive they are relatively.

Well, I see a list of rules, certainly puts me off any PvP. But really they all make sense, no problem at all if we go ahead with them.

 

[Haly]

These rules seem more fair, and would create less bitterness among early PVPers because you can't simply wipe someone out within a single war, which I think is what everyone was afraid of. At most you'll be getting one or two claims, unless you spent a lot of time building them up.

It remains to be seen if anyone will take advantage of that, however.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Well, I see a list of rules, certainly puts me off any PvP. But really they all make sense, no problem at all if we go ahead with them.

Some of them are designed to make PvP more attractive, too. I think a big problem with EU PvP is that it benefits jackals more than anyone else. Even if you can win as an initial aggressor, it's normally pretty damn punishing on your manpower and there's a relatively decent incentive for a losing nation to just take the stab hits, refuse any offers, bleed you dry, and wait for your neighbours to descend - basically what happened to archnemesis after his wars with Cazz. Rule 6 makes swift war more rewarding, I think.

 

[fanboi]

I would also like to add a rule.

If you lost a war and is exiting the game, you can't sell your provinces to other players to fuck the player that won against you...

I call this rule Halygate rule.

Spoiler

 

[Haly]

I think the exploit rule precludes that.

 

[FACE]

Have you made a choice, FACE? Also, I'd be impressed if fanboi declared any wars on France, what with being in Anatolia and all.

If possible I'd like to play Castille or anothe easy country again because I haven't played EU IV in a while.

I may or may not have edited FACE's preferred nation.

SON OF A BITCH!

Spoiler

Well played.

 

[fanboi]

I think the exploit rule precludes that.

Yeah, just want to point it out...

 

[Deleted member 231381]

If possible I'd like to play Castille or anothe easy country again because I haven't played EU IV in a while.

I think your best bet is probably asking ZZMitch very nicely if you could have Venice, as he was willing to swap out. Most of the really easy nations are gone. Brandenburg and the Hansa might be OK too.

 

[FACE]

I think your best bet is probably asking ZZMitch very nicely if you could have Venice, as he was willing to swap out. Most of the really easy nations are gone. Brandenburg and the Hansa might be OK too.

I'll take whatever nation is available, it's fine because in my heart I'll always be Algiers Castille.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Also, re: times, Wednesdays and Saturdays at 21:00 CEST seems to be the winner. I think everyone so far can do that except perhaps fanboi (dislikes weekends), Valhelm (dislikes weekends), Toma (dislikes Wednesdays), and mleugie (dislikes weekdays). I think that's the least harmful combination there in terms of who put not preferred. It just depends on how many of those dislikes are dislikes, and how many are "I cannot do this time".

 

[fanboi]

Also, re: times, Wednesdays and Saturdays at 21:00 CEST seems to be the winner. I think everyone so far can do that except perhaps fanboi (dislikes weekends), Valhelm (dislikes weekends), Toma (dislikes Wednesdays), and mleugie (dislikes weekdays). I think that's the least harmful combination there in terms of who put not preferred. It just depends on how many of those dislikes are dislikes, and how many are "I cannot do this time".

Can we do 21:30?

I will come home every wednesday 20:50, and have 10 min home... so I will not make it 21:00...

EDIT: I saw that I put 21:00... but I changed to 21:30

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Can we do 21:30?

I will come home every wednesday 20:50, and have 10 min home... so I will not make it 21:00...

EDIT: I saw that I put 21:00... but I changed to 21:30

I think that works, but we'd have to make the Wednesdays a 1.5hr session not a 2hr one.

EDIT: And Face confirms for the Timurids!

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Okay, a more comprehensive poll in the interests of getting as many people playing as possible.

http://doodle.com/e5nxqq5k6u242zxq

Ignore the dates, that Monday stands for all Mondays, etc. I have broken up the evening for each day into multiple half-hour slots. Please tick every slot you can make. Only miss a slot if you cannot make it. For your name, use your NeoGAF account. We can use the two biggest continuous blocks. ALL TIMES ARE CEST. You can use fanboi's http://everytimezone.com/ (which is pretty cool, btw).

 

[fanboi]

Okay, a more comprehensive poll in the interests of getting as many people playing as possible.

http://doodle.com/e5nxqq5k6u242zxq

Ignore the dates, that Monday stands for all Mondays, etc. I have broken up the evening for each day into multiple half-hour slots. Please tick every slot you can make. Only miss a slot if you cannot make it. For your name, use your NeoGAF account. We can use the two biggest continuous blocks. ALL TIMES ARE CEST. You can use fanboi's http://everytimezone.com/ (which is pretty cool, btw).

Great tool Crab!

 

[Kabouter]

Do you have all the DLC, Kab? The unit packs/music shouldn't matter, but you should probably have Conquest of Paradise, Wealth of Nations, Res Publica, Purple Phoenix and Star and Crescent. American Dream is really buggy and is basically incompatible with CoP, so we probably shouldn't have both on at the same time.

I have all that stuff, but I can disable American Dream. I also have most of the cosmetic stuff, but not the more recent unit/music packs that haven't gone on sale yet.

 

[Fitz]

Handy website, I ticked everything but the 8 - 8:30 timeslots, however I could probably make that time usually if it helps.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I have all that stuff, but I can disable American Dream. I also have most of the cosmetic stuff, but not the more recent unit/music packs that haven't gone on sale yet.

Excellent. If you turn on all 5 of those and leave American Dream off, plus put on whatever cosmetic/music stuff you have, we'll be good.

Current map. Anything with bold lines has been chosen by a player, anything greyed out borders a player and you should ask that player's permission if you want to play that nation. I also greyed out OPMs and 2PMs on the assumption nobody would want to play with them, although I left in the electors in case anyone fancies a diplomatic game. All the nations which remain in colour but do not have bold lines are up for grabs - someone is probably encouraged to take either Bavaria or the Palatinate particularly, because the southern Germany region is missing a player.

CloudWolf and Toma are the only remaining players left who haven't chosen a nation. CloudWolf, Toma, ZZMitch, and Manik have yet to confirm times on the time poll here: http://doodle.com/e5nxqq5k6u242zxq

 

[KingSnake]

Mgo is playing Burgundy? I have to be fast then, by the 6th session he will own both England and France.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Mgo is playing Burgundy? I have to be fast then, by the 6th session he will own both England and France.

For the sake of balance, we can consider turning Historical Lucky Nations on. With current player choices, that's AI France, England, Spain and Austria who'd get a buff. That's probably quite healthy. Bit unfortunate for you, me and Valhelm, but I'd put up with it.

 

[Toma]

For the sake of balance, we can consider turning Historical Lucky Nations on. With current player choices, that's AI France, England, Spain and Austria who'd get a buff. That's probably quite healthy. Bit unfortunate for you, me and Valhelm, but I'd put up with it.

That sounds fair, also I got the ottomanian warmongerer to accept me as mamluks as we dont share much of a border and we simply promised each other not to create any claim on the other players provinces until 1500, so that should even things out enough, because by 1500 other players will border each other anyway.

 

[Haly]

Playing a bunch of practice games and man, this could go anywhere.

Sometimes Brandenburg allies Austria and cuts me off that direction/

Sometimes Austria gets buttstomped by Burgandy and I get caught in the middle.

Sometimes Denmark solidifies their control over Sweden and Norway and I miss the window to support Sweden's independence.

Sometimes I get coalition blobbed forever just for vassalizing Pomerania.

Game is hard.

 

[Morfeo]

Also, re: times, Wednesdays and Saturdays at 21:00 CEST seems to be the winner. I think everyone so far can do that except perhaps fanboi (dislikes weekends), Valhelm (dislikes weekends), Toma (dislikes Wednesdays), and mleugie (dislikes weekdays). I think that's the least harmful combination there in terms of who put not preferred. It just depends on how many of those dislikes are dislikes, and how many are "I cannot do this time".

Sorry I am a bit late to this, but does this mean you guys is going to play saturdays (which as far as I can see is not in the doodle)?

Edit: Never mind I am a n00b.

 

[Morfeo]

So just to rationalize the stuff I ented.

First of all, as you guys know, I have a son and he used to go to bed at 1900 cest, but is now going to bed at 2000, which means that I will not be able to start earlier than 2100 (since it can take some time for him to fall asleep where I need to be available for him). Also, I will not be able to play friday and saturday since I am more or less always doing stuff then, and every second thursday we have a seminar with my work I have to attend which can go on for very long, making thursday possible, but not ideal.

The best time for me would thus be Sunday (when I am always home), and one of the days between monday and wednesday, preferably wednesday for the intervall between the days, but all those work fine. 22-24 would be ideal, but 21-23 is also fine.

For nations, I have no idea and is open to suggestions. I see germany is open, and while it does suck being close to MGO, I can play there if that is where the space is, but I would be happy to get some suggestions from you guys!

 

[ZZMitch]

I'll take whatever nation is available, it's fine because in my heart I'll always be Algiers Castille.

If you would rather play Venice than Timurids I would be happy to accommodate!

Also I filled out the Doodle poll.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Okay, we're just waiting for Manik to fill out the poll.

 

[Kabouter]

And for Cloudwolf to pick a nation I guess.

By the way, if we change the rules to allow players being made protectorates by other players and amend the vassalization rule to also include protectorates (meaning an Indian, East Asian, Sub-Saharan or Native American player nation could not have the majority of their lands taken away by European superpowers the second they arrive, but instead would have to be made protectorates) then I'm willing to consider playing an East-Asian nation...again.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

And for Cloudwolf to pick a nation I guess.

By the way, if we change the rules to allow players being made protectorates by other players and amend the vassalization rule to also include protectorates (meaning an Indian, East Asian, Sub-Saharan or Native American player nation could not have the majority of their lands taken away by European superpowers the second they arrive, but instead would have to be made protectorates) then I'm willing to consider playing an East-Asian nation...again.

I'm holding off making Cloudwolf pick a nation for definite just yet. We don't have a single day 13/13 participants can do, so when Manik finishes the poll, up to 2 people may have to either sit this round out or only do one of the weekly sessions. If someone drops out, a position on the map will open up.

It's impossible to form coalitions against nations which have been made protectorates, which is why that rule is worded as it is - any East Asian power just rushes exploration until they find a Western power who is willing to support them, gets DoW'd, accepts being made a protectorate, then can expand ridiculously easily from that point.

 

[Kabouter]

I'm holding off making Cloudwolf pick a nation for definite just yet. We don't have a single day 13/13 participants can do, so when Manik finishes the poll, up to 2 people may have to either sit this round out or only do one of the weekly sessions. If someone drops out, a position on the map will open up.

It's impossible to form coalitions against nations which have been made protectorates, which is why that rule is worded as it is - any East Asian power just rushes exploration until they find a Western power who is willing to support them, gets DoW'd, accepts being made a protectorate, then can expand ridiculously easily from that point.

Yes, and that's a great rule in games where people are all over the map. I'd be the only East-Asian nation in the entire game, competing with nothing but European great powers. Not having the rule would lead to me being taken apart the second anyone from Europe gets to me. What would be the point of playing an East-Asian nation if nations many times stronger than me can just demand provinces at will?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Yes, and that's a great rule in games where people are all over the map. I'd be the only East-Asian nation in the entire game, competing with nothing but European great powers. Not having the rule would lead to me being taken apart the second anyone from Europe gets to me. What would be the point of playing an East-Asian nation if nations many times stronger than me can just demand provinces at will?

I mean, that rule doesn't stop them taking provinces anyway, it just says that if they can vassalize you, then they can't take any more. That still means they can eat you up to about 4-5 provinces even if we allow protectorates.

EDIT: Never mind, I forgot that protectorates can always be established at 100% warscore regardless of size. Seems a bit weird, though - you have an active incentive to get protectorized. Why not just have a rule saying "Nobody can DoW Kabouter"? If you're an East Asian power, I shouldn't think anyone would mind.

 

[Kabouter]

I mean, that rule doesn't stop them taking provinces anyway, it just says that if they can vassalize you, then they can't take any more. That still means they can eat you up to about 4-5 provinces even if we allow protectorates.

Read my post again, they wouldn't be allowed to take provinces if they're able to make me a protectorate, which they would be.

EDIT: Never mind, I forgot that protectorates can always be established at 100% warscore regardless of size. Seems a bit weird, though - you have an active incentive to get protectorized. Why not just have a rule saying "Nobody can DoW Kabouter"? If you're an East Asian power, I shouldn't think anyone would mind.

That rule is fine too, since that'd also take away the threat from non-Western player nations

Man, things would be so much better if Paradox would just have changed the design to make Western nations unable to project unlimited power wherever they want anywhere in the world. Such rubbish that European nations can send tens of thousands of men to Asia in the 1500s.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

That rule is fine too, since that'd also take away the threat from non-Western player nations

The nearest is FACE on the other side of Asia. If he gets to you before the colonizers/Muscowy do, I will be extremely impressed. I'm fine with the "Do not DoW Kabouter" rule, but I'd suggest two clauses; a) if Kabouter Westernizes, you may DoW him as he can then be vassalized again, and b) if Kabouter engages in any diplomatic relations with another player power, you may DoW him, as otherwise you can join defensive alliances with impunity.

Spoiler

Also if you do take these rules you should totally be a Japanese daimyo because that would basically be a fairly accurate role-play.

Other than that, Vijayanagar, maybe? Definitely one of the strongest non-Western/Ottoman/Eastern powers. Brunei and Korea are also pretty strong - Brunei can form a terrifying Malaya pretty quickly.

EDIT: Oh, this wouldn't protect you from FACE, fanboi, mleugie or Fitz, as they're all playing Eastern or Ottoman powers which can vassalize you.

 

[Kabouter]

The nearest is FACE on the other side of Asia. If he gets to you before the colonizers/Muscowy do, I will be extremely impressed. I'm fine with the "Do not DoW Kabouter" rule, but I'd suggest two clauses; a) if Kabouter Westernizes, you may DoW him as he can then be vassalized again, and b) if Kabouter engages in any diplomatic relations with another player power, you may DoW him, as otherwise you can join defensive alliances with impunity.

Spoiler

Also if you do take these rules you should totally be a Japanese daimyo because that would basically be a fairly accurate role-play.

The decision of whether to westernize or not is going to be a tough one, because on the one hand, if I don't I fall behind compared to AI neighbours, but on the other hand, if I do it I'll be open to attack by other players and won't have caught up in tech levels yet even if I am in the same tech group.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Have a choice of nation then?

 

[Kabouter]

Have a choice of nation then?

I was thinking maybe Brunei.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I was thinking maybe Brunei.

Brunei is great fun, one of the secret best choices in EU4. There's a decent guide here: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Brunei . You could try a practice game and see how it goes before confirming.

 

[Kabouter]

Brunei is great fun, one of the secret best choices in EU4. There's a decent guide here: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Brunei . You could try a practice game and see how it goes before confirming.

With that guide, tried it for a bit just now (speed 5, yay), I do okay-ish, though I can't match the speed of that guide. I think that'll be what I go with, should it not work out, I can always switch to a colonial nation.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

With that guide, tried it for a bit just now (speed 5, yay), I do okay-ish, though I can't match the speed of that guide. I think that'll be what I go with, should it not work out, I can always switch to a colonial nation.

Always go Exploration followed by Expansion as Brunei. It's just sooo goood.

 

[Kabouter]

Always go Exploration followed by Expansion as Brunei. It's just sooo goood.

Yeah, that was my idea. It sucks that you get an extra colonist as Brunei exactly at the time that it won't change much anymore by the way. Totally the wrong order on those Malayan ideas

 

[CloudWolf]

I'm holding off making Cloudwolf pick a nation for definite just yet..

I actually did send you a PM last night, but I'm okay with this. I'm not familiar with the best strategies for any of the countries left (though I've heard that Brandenburg is pretty strong).

 

[FACE]

The nearest is FACE on the other side of Asia. If he gets to you before the colonizers/Muscowy do, I will be extremely impressed. I'm fine with the "Do not DoW Kabouter" rule, but I'd suggest two clauses; a) if Kabouter Westernizes, you may DoW him as he can then be vassalized again, and b) if Kabouter engages in any diplomatic relations with another player power, you may DoW him, as otherwise you can join defensive alliances with impunity.

Spoiler

Also if you do take these rules you should totally be a Japanese daimyo because that would basically be a fairly accurate role-play.

Other than that, Vijayanagar, maybe? Definitely one of the strongest non-Western/Ottoman/Eastern powers. Brunei and Korea are also pretty strong - Brunei can form a terrifying Malaya pretty quickly.

EDIT: Oh, this wouldn't protect you from FACE, fanboi, mleugie or Fitz, as they're all playing Eastern or Ottoman powers which can vassalize you.

Kabouter will be fine, considering I'll be too busy running my country into the ground to do anything else.

If you would rather play Venice than Timurids I would be happy to accommodate!

Also I filled out the Doodle poll.

I'll pass, thanks for the offer. I picked the Timurids because of fanboi.

FANBOI, I'M COMING FOR YOU SUCKA!

 

[fanboi]

Kabouter will be fine, considering I'll be too busy running my country into the ground to do anything else.



I'll pass, thanks for the offer. I picked the Timurids because of fanboi.

FANBOI, I'M COMING FOR YOU SUCKA!

I am glad that you are coming for me.

Because then I will easily double my territory.

 

[Kabouter]

And in the meantime Toma runs away with all the spoils

 

[Morfeo]

So which suggested nation is left to play now then?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

So which suggested nation is left to play now then?

Depends, we need Manik to confirm times because I imagine around 1-2 people will not be able to play and that frees up nations.

 

[Fitz]

So which suggested nation is left to play now then?

Ryukyu is the only clear option I'd say, though they might be a bit easy, you're best off going for Chimu I reckon.

 

[Kabouter]

Ryukyu is the only clear option I'd say, though they might be a bit easy, you're best off going for Chimu I reckon.

Well, he could play a North-American native if no one else drops out, they're not impossible to play thanks to the way their reform government mechanic works. Nations like Iroquois are doable.

Edit:
Also, another question what settings are we going for for the game?
I know normal difficulty/no bonuses/historical lucky nations is a given, but I mean these:
Dynamic province names (my suggestion would be yes)
Locked ledger (we did this last game, was very good imo)
Only host can save
Editable save

 

[fanboi]

Well, he could play a North-American native if no one else drops out, they're not impossible to play thanks to the way their reform government mechanic works. Nations like Iroquois are doable.

Edit:
Also, another question what settings are we going for for the game?
I know normal difficulty/no bonuses/historical lucky nations is a given, but I mean these:
Dynamic province names (my suggestion would be yes)
Locked ledger (we did this last game, was very good imo)
Only host can save
Editable save

I agree with above (like last game) host only

 

[ZZMitch]

I'll pass, thanks for the offer. I picked the Timurids because of fanboi

FANBOI, I'M COMING FOR YOU SUCKA!

I like it.

Spoiler

The Timurid-Venice anti-Fanboi alliance will be grand

 

[Kabouter]

Not as grand as the Brunei-no one because everyone in Asia hates Muslims and refuses to ally alliance.