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[ClosingADoor]

If you actually look at what Hungary has been doing to keep people out, and how it has violated several conventions in doing so while countries who actually took people in are dealing with matters much better I don't think you have an argument for not going along with what the EU decides if you are a part of it, no.

Countries who take people in do not have to keep them out, because they are not border countries though. Bulgaria, Hungary, Greece, Italy, are. And you are kidding yourself if you don't think Western EU politicians are perfectly fine with them building up borders, since it will also mean less trouble for them. Yes, Hungary has done things wrong. Nobody is denying that. But there is a bit of nuance here.

Also, nobody is following the EU quota, as per the link in the OP: http://www.euronews.com/2017/09/06/fact-check-how-many-refugees-has-each-eu-country-taken-in

 

[Onlinehero]

I'm a little confused, are you trying to say that Africa's population isn't increasing?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/25/africa/africa-population-growth-un/index.html

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=57028#.WU1IaVPytZ0

Is the UN a dunce drawing a graph?

Show me the hundreds of millions of refugees or any reputable source forseeing it, I'm waiting. By the way keep the dunce cap on, I feel you're going to need it going by past experiences (a near perfect correlation between number of statements and factual errors).

 

[berzeli]

People applying for asylum now doesn't mean they are the recent immigrants I think.

UN says this: http://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean

Syria is 5th. Total 125,989 arrivals tracked, Syria accounts for 7,688. Not even 10%.

Also, your numbers show that for Q1 is was just over 10% or so for Syria. So yes, almost 90% are not from Syria, proving my point.

That UN link only tracks Mediterranean sea arrivals, which is the main route for most asylum seekers but not the only one. So I was unsure if it was the best data point, so I went with Eurostat.

The statement "the current immigrants are not from Syria at all" is still hyperbolic with those figures.

The population in Africa isn't growing rapidly? This is big news.

Christ, is this heading towards the "they're outbreeding us" argument?

 

[michaelius]

IIRC Orban would gladly accept Christian refugees. And not being from Syria doesn't mean your country is safe. If you disagree, feel free to move to Afghanistan and see if you feel safe or not. Not being from Syria doesn't mean your case shouldn't be heard. If you don't have a legit claim, then by all means send them back promptly but humanely.

Except most of people coming to Europe aren't from Afghanistan or Syria. Helping refugees doesn't mean we should accept illegal economic immigrants who pay smugglers to get to Europe.

 

[Enosh]

My solution to this has always been that you either take migrants or pay other nations to take them. Each nation gets allocated a quantity of migrants according to their size, gdp, popu density etc. Then they can either sell further allocations to countries that don't want to take migrants or buy their way out of the obligation.

where was this cooperation when Merkel decided by herself to invite over a million immigrants? when were Hungary, Slovakia etc consulted on her decision?

if Merkel can decide immigration policy for the entire EU by herself, then she can take care of them by herself too

 

[ClosingADoor]

That UN link only tracks Mediterranean sea arrivals, which is the main route for most asylum seekers but not the only one. So I was unsure if it was the best data point, so I went with Eurostat.

The statement "the current immigrants are not from Syria at all" is still hyperbolic with those figures.

I should have typed "most" with it since it is clear that the Syrian refugees are very much in the minority, both in the UN and EU stats we both looked up. If I look at your link, it is 13% and the change with the previous year for that period was -80%.

 

[Onlinehero]

Countries who take people in do not have to keep them out, because they are not border countries though. Bulgaria, Hungary, Greece, Italy, are. And you are kidding yourself if you don't think Western EU politicians are perfectly fine with them building up borders, since it will also mean less trouble for them. Yes, Hungary has done things wrong. Nobody is denying that. But there is a bit of nuance here.

Also, nobody is following the EU quota, as per the link in the OP: http://www.euronews.com/2017/09/06/fact-check-how-many-refugees-has-each-eu-country-taken-in

Countries who take people in are still doing so by determining who's in need of protection and who isn't. Lots of people get turned away at the border of Sweden, and Finland, and any other EU state.

The reason for the figure Sweden has in those statistics is that Italy couldn't provide enough people to fill the quota, looking at the discrepancies with Germany and France a likely guess would be that the same applies there.

 

[leatherhat]

Show me the hundreds of millions of refugees or any reputable source forseeing it, I'm waiting. By the way keep the dunce cap on, I feel you're going to need it going by past experiences (a near perfect correlation between number of statements and factual errors).

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...r-unimaginable-refugee-crisis-senior-military

http://www.newsweek.com/climate-ref...mate-changeclimate-change-unun-climate-600268

http://www.eld-initiative.org/fileadmin/pdf/ELD-main-report_05_web_72dpi.pdf

50 million people displaced in ten years, 1/3 of the world vulnerable to land degradation (drought, etc.)

 

[ClosingADoor]

Countries who take people in are still doing so by determining who's in need of protection and who isn't. Lots of people get turned away at the border of Sweden, and Finland, and any other EU state.

The reason for the figure Sweden has in those statistics is that Italy couldn't provide enough people to fill the quota, looking at the discrepancies with Germany and France a likely guess would be that the same applies there.

So... you agree that we can deny people at the border? Sounds like the thing Hungary has been doing for a while.

And again, that is not excusing their other stuff. But we in more Western and Northern countries in the EU should not act like we have the moral high ground in this discussion and just tell the others what they should do.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Actually yes.
This is from the European Court of Justice's press release:

TFEU referenced here is Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

I still think it's a bit rich to say "they knew what they were signing up for", and then point to an emergency powers provision. It's not at all clear from that section that it means we're going to send people to your country and you have to accept them. In fact, that's one of their two arguments according to the OP - that the quota isn't "necessary" to respond to the situation.

Also, the first page of this thread has a bit of a nasty tone to it. A sort of "we give them money, they have to do what we say!" undertone. It doesn't really feel like the spirit that the EU was founded on to me.

 

[Not Drake]

I'm still of an opinion immigration quotas are an insane decision that Germany came up with after it decided to open the borders without even consulting other EU countries.

I still think it's not racism or xenophobia that drives Eastern EU countries against taking immigrants in set numbers. It's a will to keep own citizens safe. Hear me out. During my university years I was working in a refugee center in Lublin, Eastern Poland. It was in 2006-2009 during the biggest wave of Chechen refugee crisis that most EU countries seem to forgot by now. We were really strict with procedures, checking people that came in. We weren't really throwing them on the streets either. Every single person got a help from lawyers, basic medical check for free, help to get their kids in schools, try to get them a work they might be able to take, etc. Here's a thing. We were able to check every single person and help them. Right now it's chaos. It's impossible to check hundreds of thousands of people in such a short time. There's also different issue. Most of the allocated immigrants will move back to Germany, France and so on. Up until 2015 Poland granted asylum to almost 90.000 Muslim Chechen refugees. In the beginning of 2017 there was around 6.000 of them with additional 3.000 refugee seekers with their asylum status pending. Where do you think rest of them went?

 

[Muffin1611]

where was this cooperation when Merkel decided by herself to invite over a million immigrants? when were Hungary, Slovakia etc consulted on her decision?

if Merkel can decide immigration policy for the entire EU by herself, then she can take care of them by herself too

Merkel didn't decide on immigration policy of the entire EU alone, and letting them into Germany was kinda necessary if you didn't want asylum seekers dying from the cold at the border

And Hungary etc. were just told by the European Court of Justice that they have to adhere to an EU policy (which they are part of, you know) that passed. Hardly Merkel herself telling others what to do going on here.

 

[Pikma]

Its possible to not want illegal immigration and at the same time not want said illegals to die in droves during transit.

I love how instead of calling them "people" you decided to call them "illegals" to make that extra needed emphasis about their immigration status being more important than their life

And by the way they're not illegal immigrants, they're refugees, you bigot.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I still think it's a bit rich to say "they knew what they were signing up for", and then point to an emergency powers provision. It's not at all clear from that section that it means we're going to send people to your country and you have to accept them. In fact, that's one of their two arguments according to the OP - that the quota isn't "necessary" to respond to the situation.

Also, the first page of this thread has a bit of a nasty tone to it. A sort of "we give them money, they have to do what we say!" undertone. It doesn't really feel like the spirit that the EU was founded on to me.

The EU was also not founded to enable racist demagogues to siphon off funds while at the same time deny any and all responsibilities.

 

[gutter_trash]

Yes, but sometimes the kids whine and you gotta make them fall in line. And this is hardly a one-size-fits-all if the number of refugees is being calculated based on each country individually.

some countries have 15% unemployment rate and 25% youth unemployment + austerity measures imposed on the population.

on one hand, you got the fat head country demanding austerity measures on the smaller countries, then LOL that same fat headed country then tells the smaller countries to accept migrants... during austerity measures simultaneously

it is not a one size fits all.

it's totally understandable that populations are frustrated seeing their services cut, their wages cut, their taxes rise in the name of austerity then lol hey toss out money on an imposed German demand on all other countries.

this is not like the US or Canada, some of these smaller EU member countries are poor in the for realz.

the recovery out of the 2008 crash is still not complete or felt like it is in US and Canada. EU countries are still lagging in the shitter post 2008...

like it's WTF Germany. Austerity! + imposed forced quotas on migrants at the same time?

 

[Zhylaw]

I'm just a dumb American but I always though the EU was a pseudo nation with the individuals countries giving up partial autonomy to act as "states" in exchange for the perceived benefits that came with joining the EU. I NEVER thought the EU was some sort of trade agreement or treaty or just a unified currency. Am I crazy or are the people arguing against the ignorant ones?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Id they dont want to take them, why force it?

No tolerance for racists running a country, getting their hands on that sweet EU money, then enact racist practices.

 

[Onlinehero]

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...r-unimaginable-refugee-crisis-senior-military

http://www.newsweek.com/climate-ref...mate-changeclimate-change-unun-climate-600268

http://www.eld-initiative.org/fileadmin/pdf/ELD-main-report_05_web_72dpi.pdf

50 million people displaced in ten years, 1/3 of the world vulnerable to land degradation (drought, etc.)

I think I need to quote you again, which is weird because I think you wrote it:

It would be hundreds of millions of people. [to Europe]

It's still just your ass claiming those figures.

And another thing, you're talking about people fleeing from environmental disasters. Now I didn't wan't to tell you this, because it's like kicking someone who's down. But here goes. Last year, Sweden adopted a temporary law only adhering to the minimum requirements within the EU. Before, there were three categories for people in need of protection, refugees, "alternative needs" (punishment of death, torture, you name it [not really]), and "other needs". "Other needs" include chapter 4 §3 2 pt. of Utlänningslagen which provides protection for "people who can't return to their home country because of an environmental disaster". Sweden's new temporary law specifically excludes "other needs" through §4, which is valid until at least 2019. Remember, that law still fulfills the EU minimum, which makes your ENTIRE point moot, even if it wasn't just pulled out of your ass.

To summarize, a country within the EU can legally deport people with no other claims for asylum than environmental disasters if they so desire and have the necessary legislation for doing so. That's without breaking conventions (though to be fair I don't think that paragraph has been tested in court).

Learning is fun, eh?

So... you agree that we can deny people at the border? Sounds like the thing Hungary has been doing for a while.

And again, that is not excusing their other stuff. But we in more Western and Northern countries in the EU should not act like we have the moral high ground in this discussion and just tell the others what they should do.

See this is where you lose the plot. Hungary has been detaining people illegally. That means there are and always have been legal ways to detain people with no right to stay in your country. If a person at the border says "I want to apply for asylum!", Sweden won't deport you, and will instead subject you to the legal process of applying for asylum. Hungary does not, which makes your conclusion wrong and a bit embarrassing. Look up detention in Germany or any other country and compare it to the case where the European Court of Human Rights has condemned Hungary.

So yes, I agree, otherwise every country would've been involved in illegal activity since long before 2015. But no, it would only sound like something akin to Hungary to someone not up to date with the situation.

 

[PdotMichael]

You are always free to leave the EU if taking refugees is that country destroying... but well.

 

[leatherhat]

I think I need to quote you again, which is weird because I think you wrote it:

It's still just your ass claiming those figures.

To summarize, a country within the EU can legally deport people with no other claims for asylum than environmental disasters if they so desire and have the necessary legislation for doing so. That's without breaking conventions (though to be fair I don't think that paragraph has been tested in court).

50 million people in ten years. That was 2015. Do you think after ten years the problems will be solved or do you think they will continue? Climate change will get worse and more people will be displaced, and while it's one thing to have the legal cover to deport someone another to have the will to do it. The EU can deport people, it can secure its borders, but it doesn't, and instead blame countries that try to do things on their own. The EU is not at all dealing with the current situation, or future situations, with any type of real plan or effective strategy.

 

[gutter_trash]

after Austerity measures, it is hard to convince the affected youth when you got numbers like these

lots of these countries are not even recovered from 2008

this in nothing like US and Canada 4% - 5% overall unemployment

 

[Jasup]

I still think it's a bit rich to say "they knew what they were signing up for", and then point to an emergency powers provision. It's not at all clear from that section that it means we're going to send people to your country and you have to accept them. In fact, that's one of their two arguments according to the OP - that the quota isn't "necessary" to respond to the situation.

Of course it's not stated how the amergency is addressed. However it does mean that once the measures have been agreed to according to due process, which happened here, a member state has to comply. Even if the member state in question disagrees.

That is what they signed up for.

 

[Onlinehero]

50 million people in ten years. That was 2015. Do you think after ten years the problems will be solved or do you think they will continue? Climate change will get worse and more people will be displaced, and while it's one thing to have the legal cover to deport someone another to have the will to do it. The EU can deport people, it can secure its borders, but it doesn't, and instead blame countries that try to do things on their own. The EU is not at all dealing with the current situation, or future situations, with any type of real plan or effective strategy.

Even if every single person of those 50 million came to Europe it'd still be 51 million. Your extrapolation is dim-witted, beyond unreasonable. Yes climate change and future livable land is an issue that needs to be dealt with, but your opinion has literally neither value nor importance unless you can vote based off of your ill-conceived notions.

And you're wrong, again. The EU is dealing with the current situation, securing borders, and deporting those who stay unlawfully, you're just clueless with the fatal flaw of not realising it.

after Austerity measures, it is hard to convince the affected youth when you got numbers like these

lots of these countries are not even recovered from 2008




this in nothing like US and Canada 4% - 5% overall unemployment

Why would you quote overall unemployment compared to youth unemployment?

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Less interference from the west would be a good start (less arms sales, less war). They aren't stupid, there is no reason why African and Middle Eastern countries can't improve and become functional. There is probably very little the west can do to actually help though.



Because I'm looking at the long term picture, and the population growth occurring in Africa.

Wow.

Wow.

Like, zero self-awareness in how much worse this post makes your entire argument look.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Id they dont want to take them, why force it?

I don't want to pay taxes

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Also, nobody is following the EU quota, as per the link in the OP: http://www.euronews.com/2017/09/06/fact-check-how-many-refugees-has-each-eu-country-taken-in

Of course my country is almost dead last.
And the fucking right wing party here still complains about refugees all the time.

Edit: Shit, sorry for the dp

 

[Palette Swap]

denouncing a political “rape of European law and values”.

Fuck your xenophobic ass and your disregard for human rights. Article 50 the fuck out of here if you're so unhappy.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Also, nobody is following the EU quota, as per the link in the OP: http://www.euronews.com/2017/09/06/fact-check-how-many-refugees-has-each-eu-country-taken-in

Does Brussels not care about Poland's 0.00% acceptance rate? That seems more egregious than the court case we are discussing.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Orban knew that it would be dismissed. He just try to play the nationalist card with his electorate and benefit from UE at the same time.

Unsurprisingly, there is people here supporting that.

 

[Onlinehero]

Does Brussels not care about Poland's 0.00% acceptance rate? That seems more egregious than the court case we are discussing.

Why would the EU not care?

The European commission has launched a legal case against Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic for refusing to take in refugees,

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-eastern-states-for-refusing-to-take-refugees

 

[Fudgepuppy]

Would be a terrible chain of events if the migrant crisis causes the disbandment of the EU by having several more Brexits.

It would fuck over every country, but it's essentially what Isis wants.

If you hate Isis, take in every refugee and use them to increase your economy and GDP.

That said though, I come from a well off country that has taken in a lot of refugees (who has greatly benefited economically from immigration over the past 25 years), who is now living in a country that does not have the infrastructure to take care of them, so I get the hesitation to take them in.

Talking about immigration as a Swede with Bulgarians is so odd. It's like talking to someone who has a different name for everything, everything upside down.

 

[Rolodzeo]

I still think it's not racism or xenophobia that drives Eastern EU countries against taking immigrants in set numbers. It's a will to keep own citizens safe.

Safe from what exactly? Why the fear?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Less interference from the west would be a good start (less arms sales, less war). They aren't stupid, there is no reason why African and Middle Eastern countries can't improve and become functional. There is probably very little the west can do to actually help though.



Because I'm looking at the long term picture, and the population growth occurring in Africa.

Africans are running away from Africa because it's crowded now? Because there aren't enough resources?
Africa is the last place you should be looking at for pop control.

Or do you think that the existence of one black person is so bad, that it feels like they're taking 5 places that could go to decent non-africans.

 

[cromofo]

Germany cleaning up their mess I see.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

50 million people in ten years. That was 2015. Do you think after ten years the problems will be solved or do you think they will continue? Climate change will get worse and more people will be displaced, and while it's one thing to have the legal cover to deport someone another to have the will to do it. The EU can deport people, it can secure its borders, but it doesn't, and instead blame countries that try to do things on their own. The EU is not at all dealing with the current situation, or future situations, with any type of real plan or effective strategy.

Your home being wrecked by climate change isn't a legitimate reason to seek asylum in your opinion. Wow dude. That's actually quite a terrible world view you've got there. "Displaced by climate change? Well, not my problem, go away".

 

[Bitch Pudding]

If Hungary refuses to accept that, they can fuck right off.

This is the problem: they already declared they won't. This is the first time a EU member takes a ruling of the court - and hereby the entire law system of the EU - into question. And there isn't that much the EU can do about it, as Poland and Hungary basically made a pact to veto any major punishment against one of them.

In short, the EU as we know it is doomed if Hungaria gets away with this.

 

[Maztorre]

after Austerity measures, it is hard to convince the affected youth when you got numbers like these

lots of these countries are not even recovered from 2008




this in nothing like US and Canada 4% - 5% overall unemployment

Youth unemployment numbers in Europe should be taken with a massive grain of salt as they are normally peddled by the Eurosceptic brigade with an overt anti-EU agenda. "Youth unemployment" as defined in your graph is most likely counting students over the age of 18 who are in higher education and aren't even seeking work. Most EU countries also have a stricter definition of "employment" than the entities putting out this crap, who operate various "at-will" employment schemes or zero-hours contracts that simply do not exist in most of the EU, but nicely pad out employment rates vs EU states.

Youth unemployment is relatively high in southern Europe, but the intent of the hysteria surrounding EU employment rates is usually to portray swarms of swarthy young men imminently showing up in YOUR town to...serve you coffee in an unfamiliar accent.

 

[EdwardTeach]

I'm just a dumb American but I always though the EU was a pseudo nation with the individuals countries giving up partial autonomy to act as "states" in exchange for the perceived benefits that came with joining the EU. I NEVER thought the EU was some sort of trade agreement or treaty or just a unified currency. Am I crazy or are the people arguing against the ignorant ones?

You are crazy.

 

[Ac30]

This is the problem: they already declared they won't. This is the first time a EU member takes a ruling of the court - and hereby the entire law system of the EU - into question. And there isn't that much the EU can do about it, as Poland and Hungary basically made a pact to veto any major punishment against one of them.

In short, the EU as we know it is doomed if Hungaria gets away with this.

2 speed is basically inevitable if E.E. starts disregarding ECJ rulings. Can't the ECJ itself impose fines though?

 

[RocknRola]

It's good that ECJ will decide (or has decided) in favour of the refugees. They need all the help they can get.

 

[KonradLaw]

Poland didn't take part in the case, but won't take either. Pretty dumb move. I think taking those migrants makes little sense, both from polish interests' standpoint as simple humanitarian realities, but we could just take like couple dozens. EC would leave us be and most of those people would run away to Germany or Sweden anyway.

 

[Ac30]

Poland didn't take part in the case, but won't take either. Pretty dumb move. I think taking those migrants makes little sense, both from polish interests' standpoint as simple humanitarian realities, but we could just take like couple dozens. EC would leave us be and most of those people would run away to Germany or Sweden anyway.

PiS's shtick is disobeying the EU; they're already ignoring an ECJ ruling on deforestation, so why care now? I do agree with you, I think it was the Czech Republic or Slovakia that took in like, what, 10? and the EU let it slide.

At least Duda showed up with his own Top 10 Anime Betrayals moment.

 

[KonradLaw]

This is the problem: they already declared they won't. This is the first time a EU member takes a ruling of the court - and hereby the entire law system of the EU - into question. And there isn't that much the EU can do about it, as Poland and Hungary basically made a pact to veto any major punishment against one of them.

In short, the EU as we know it is doomed if Hungaria gets away with this.

Lol..Eu won't break apart from couple countries not accepting migrants. At most they might be some light financial and political repercussions. Most likely EE countries will eventually accept fraction of the numbers they were supposed to and it will be considered victory of compromise.

Automatic quotas system that some people proposed, that would definitely end the EU.

 

[KonradLaw]

PiS's shtick is disobeying the EU; they're already ignoring an ECJ ruling on deforestation, so why care now? I do agree with you, I think it was the Czech Republic or Slovakia that took in like, what, 10? and the EU let it slide.

Yeah. Generally EU always been about compromises. From time to time every country disobeys something and the rest lets it more or less slide. The problem with Poland is that PiS doesn't know how to play that game. They are opening up fronts on pretty much every single damn area.
Heck, you can bet even Orban will somehow weasel out of the real sanctions. Dude always knew how to walk the tight rope. He might even do it by agreeing to sanctions to Poland for breaking the rule of the law, because while EE's refugee quotas is pretty much meaningless problem in big picture, introducing totalitarian rule inside EU is much much more dangerous for union.

 

[Blablurn]

Time to cut some of their funding then! If they don't want to help, they should face the consequences.

 

[Ac30]

Yeah. Generally EU always been about compromises. From time to time every country disobeys something and the rest lets it more or less slide. The problem with Poland is that PiS doesn't know how to play that game. They are opening up fronts on pretty much every single damn area.
Heck, you can bet even Orban will somehow weasel out of the real sanctions. Dude always knew how to walk the tight rope. He might even do it by agreeing to sanctions to Poland for breaking the rule of the law, because while EE's refugee quotas is pretty much meaningless problem in big picture, introducing totalitarian rule inside EU is much much more dangerous for union.

I agree, and the increasingly dire situation in Hungary is making me nervous; the EU isn't well equipped to deal with totalitarianism. I'm pretty sure Orban already announced he'd protect Poland from any Article 7 actions, so the EU is effectively powerless on that front; the EU will probably just start prioritizing spending elsewhere, though, which might not work out too well for PiS.

Slightly OT but if you happen to be Polish, has the Supreme Court ruled on PiS's appointment to the Constitutional Court? I thought that was why Kaczynski was so adamant about ramming those shit bills through.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Lol..Eu won't break apart from couple countries not accepting migrants. At most they might be some light financial and political...

Automatic quotas system that some people proposed, that would definitely end the EU.

Dude, I'm not talking about accepting migrants, I'm talking about accepting EU legislation / following a fucking court order.

The quota system was established by the EU, not "some people", and Hungary agreed with it before it went full retard, together with Poland.

 

[KonradLaw]

Time to cut some of their funding then! If they don't want to help, they should face the consequences.

Doesn't work like that. At most you could reduce the fuding from next round, but the problem is that by that time those countries already are supposed to be getting pennies compared to initial 16 years of membership. At that point you cut the funding, then those countries stop paying their share and they won't be all that worse off.
Plus they can always go thermonuclear on EU, by taking migrants and then immiedietelly giving each one of them citizenship, after which they would all travel to Germany and Sweden the next day and there's nothing those countries could to do stop it, as it would be fully legal.

 

[KonradLaw]

The quota system was established by the EU, not "some people", and Hungary agreed with it before it went full retard, together with Poland.

No, Hungary voted against it. They didn't agree to anything. They were just overruled. Poland is different matter.

 

[KonradLaw]

Slightly OT but if you happen to be Polish, has the Supreme Court ruled on PiS's appointment to the Constitutional Court? I thought that was why Kaczynski was so adamant about ramming those shit bills through.

Supreme Court is supposed to rule on it 12th september.
Meanwhile Constitutional Tribunal will rule that Supreme Court can't do that a day before