Ex PlayStation Boss Shawn Layden says "Live Service games are not real games"

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman


According to Shawn Layden, a live-service game "isn't really a game." The former PlayStation executive said in an interview that a live-service game is better described as a "repetitive action engagement device."

Then what is a game? Speaking to The Ringer, Layden said a game needs three elements. "I need a story, I need a character, and I need a world," he said. "And Horizon, God of War, and Uncharted have all three of those things," he said. "If you're doing a live-service game, you just need a repetitive action that most people can get their head around, an ability to communicate in that world with other like-minded people, and [the player's] desire to do it again and again and again."

Layden left Sony in 2019. He hasn't said exactly why he left, but explained in the interview that live-service was "not my skillset." At the time, Sony was investing heavily in live-service and was planning to release a dozen live-service games by 2026. Sony later cut that projection in half, and some of the titles it has released, like Concord, failed spectacularly. Others, like Helldivers 2, have been enormously successful.

Researcher Joost van Dreunen told The Ringer that Sony's misses in the live-service department "sting, but they're not fatal." He said, "Even if live-service fizzles, the PS5 business is strong. The real risk isn't collapse--it's wasted time and money that could've gone into what Sony already does best."

Sony has invested more than $1.45 billion into Fortnite developer Epic Games, so the company likely stands to benefit as Fortnite continues to grow and grow. Sony is also continuing to invest in its own live-service projects, and the next big release is Bungie's Marathon. The game has already had a rocky road to release, though, as it was delayed indefinitely and is caught up in an art theft scandal.

For his part, Layden said companies should not look to live-service to help turn their businesses around. "If you're trying to go into that space because you have this illusion in your mind of big sacks of money coming every day for the rest of your life, for most it doesn't happen," he said.

In 2023, one of PlayStation's most important people, Connie Booth, left the company after 30+ years. She has never explained her departure, but former PlayStation developer David Scott Jaffe, the creator of Twisted Metal and co-creator of God of War, said Booth was fired.

"She was fired. She was not let go. She didn't retire. She didn't quit. She was fired," Jaffe said.

Jaffe went on to say that former PlayStation boss Jim Ryan gave a mandate for PlayStation's teams to make more games-as-a-service titles, which in turn reportedly upset a number of PlayStation developers. "All of this was somehow blamed on Connie," Jaffe said. "The blame has fallen on Connie."

One Sony live-service game that is not going forward is Naughty Dog's The Last of Us Online, which Neil Druckmann said was the company's most ambitious game ever. A live-service God of War game was reportedly planned at one point as well before apparently getting canceled.

Another upcoming live-service game from Sony is Fairgame$, but Sony has been quiet on the project of late, even as multiple senior staff have left, including the founder of its development studio. Despite all of this, Sony has said time and time again that it remains committed to live-service and has learned from the mistakes of Concord.

It's become pretty clear that Shawn Layden was likely fired for not understanding this business & and this medium.
 
I think that's a little reductive of a claim, and I say this as someone who hates live-service games.

Not that that side of the industry isn't a complete disaster, deservedly so.
 
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Excited Bill Murray GIF by MOODMAN
 
Jim fucking Ryan...
The gen that MS offered all the console space to Sony, he decided to go full retard with gaas and PC.

I don't know what kind of corporate virus has infected the world. Zero care for longevity. The only thing they care is increasing shareholder value and their fucking bonuses. Choke on them.
 
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Agreed. They're not games, they're services, they're drugs, they're cons, they're gambling, they are a blight on the industry. I wouldn't allow my children to participate in them, I look down on friends who participate in them, and I laugh at strangers who participate in them.
 
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Also not a fan, but they're still games that a lot of people enjoy 🤷‍♂️ Like…millions of people.

And "repetitive action engagement device". Dude GTFO with that corporate nonsense lol
Yep, if people enjoy it and engage, who am I to tell millions of people they are not playing real games lol

I myself prefer strictly single player games, but apparently I am in the minority these days.
 
They are predatory but they are games. Then again, I play phone games too so what do I know? :messenger_grinning_squinting:

vid·e·o game
/ˈvideo ˌɡām/
noun
  1. a game played by electronically manipulating images produced by a computer program on a television screen or other display screen.
 
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Damn Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes I know it hurt you typing every single word in that OP 🤣

Yep, if people enjoy it and engage, who am I to tell millions of people they are not playing real games lol

I myself prefer strictly single player games, but apparently I am in the minority these days.

Well, lots of people enjoy using heroin too, that doesn't mean they're "getting real treatment" for whatever ails them.

That said I'm not gonna say all GAAS are fake games or aren't worth respecting; technically stuff like Street Fighter & Tekken are GAAS too and I have some of the highest respect & appreciation for those IP, and what they've done for gaming overall. So Shawn could've used more discretion with his quote (that would've made it less quotable tho).
 
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I understand the distinction he's making, but they're all games, regardless of their intended purposes.
That's exactly it. I get what he's saying, too.

Casinos are full of games, that happen to also be gambling devices. Not much different than GAAS. The designers use the same psychology behind the scenes.

A lot of us here have shared perspectives of what a game or video game is and should be. I'm with all of you there, for sure. GAAS is toxic AF. I wish they never existed. Unfortunately, a few of them make billions and everyone dreams of also catching that lightning in a bottle.

It also sounds like he's trying to coin a new term in the industry, but he's using an odd way to do it. Terrible name for it, too.

"Repetitive action engagement device"

Just call it what it is: addictive predatory games.

Shallow, Hook-Inducing Trash works, too.
 
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He is right and wrong. They are games, but are they "repetitive action engagement devices"? I'd say yes
 
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Not much to do in relation to the veracity or substance of his words. A retarded statement is still a retarded statement.
"The real risk isn't collapse--it's wasted time and money that could've gone into what Sony already does best."

Sounds like wisdom.
 
Oh my god, Shawn, I thought you were abouve cheap populism (telling people what they want to hear).

GaaS games and Sp games are great tandem, I play a lot of Star Rail because I love it, but I spent most of my time in Trails that I've discovered thanks to HSR.

Like dude, come on. GT Sport and Fortnite PR-pivot/Bundles were a thing on your watch.
 
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They definitely are games. According to his definition Tetris wouldn't be a game and all real life sports wouldn't be games. He's off track here.
 
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