Former PlayStation boss Shawn Layden says “No one is more in touch with their fan base than Nintendo,”
- Thread starter Alex Scott
- Start date
Bernardougf
Member
No shit
And I dont even like Nintendo anymore
And I dont even like Nintendo anymore
awwr999999
Member
PlayStation defined adult gaming from PS1 through PS2 with edgy games that pushed the gaming envelope.
The PlayStation 2 scared Microsoft into creating Xbox as a means of stopping PlayStation from taking over gaming.
Xbox eroded PlayStation's position as the adult game console via Xbox ports of key envelope-pushing adult PS2 games (Silent Hill 2, GTA3, GTA Vice City, GTA San Andreas, Manhunt).
Windows officially supplanted PlayStation as the adult gaming platform by being the only way to play AO-rated adult games.
PlayStation needs to regain its PS1-PS2 position as the adult game console via a two pronged approach:
1. Officially become the adult game console by selling AO-rated games via PSN.
2. Secure key envelope-pushing AO titles (Rockstar, FromSoftware, Konami, Naughty Dog, etc.) as permanent PlayStation exclusives to prevent PlayStation brand erosion via PC ports of AO games.
The PlayStation 2 scared Microsoft into creating Xbox as a means of stopping PlayStation from taking over gaming.
Xbox eroded PlayStation's position as the adult game console via Xbox ports of key envelope-pushing adult PS2 games (Silent Hill 2, GTA3, GTA Vice City, GTA San Andreas, Manhunt).
Windows officially supplanted PlayStation as the adult gaming platform by being the only way to play AO-rated adult games.
PlayStation needs to regain its PS1-PS2 position as the adult game console via a two pronged approach:
1. Officially become the adult game console by selling AO-rated games via PSN.
2. Secure key envelope-pushing AO titles (Rockstar, FromSoftware, Konami, Naughty Dog, etc.) as permanent PlayStation exclusives to prevent PlayStation brand erosion via PC ports of AO games.
PlayStaytion
Member
It's culture. Sony and Microsoft aren't there yet.
Cert.in.Death
Member
Bit of a hollow victory and won by default. Sony and MS aren't giving them much to compare against.
Right now, my vote goes to Capcom. Slot in place a Mega Man revival and they can do no wrong, methinks.
Right now, my vote goes to Capcom. Slot in place a Mega Man revival and they can do no wrong, methinks.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
He's right. That doesn't mean companies like Sony or even Microsoft are poor at being in touch with their fanbases, they're just not as good at it as Nintendo.
Nintendo's on a whole other level there and they've been refining this for 4+ decades, carefully curating their IP for dozens of years maintaining a high standard of quality and treating (almost all of) them with respect. Very clear & strong IP retention from them.
Also good to see HHG getting more airtime; he's not always accurate with his takes but that goes for most people reporting on gaming or doing leaks. And you can clearly tell he's passionate about gaming for gaming's sake, can't say that for a lot of the media today.
Eh, MH Wilds and DD2 kinda knocked Capcom down a peg or two it seems like. They need to get those back in order, specifically Monster Hunter.
Nintendo's on a whole other level there and they've been refining this for 4+ decades, carefully curating their IP for dozens of years maintaining a high standard of quality and treating (almost all of) them with respect. Very clear & strong IP retention from them.
Also good to see HHG getting more airtime; he's not always accurate with his takes but that goes for most people reporting on gaming or doing leaks. And you can clearly tell he's passionate about gaming for gaming's sake, can't say that for a lot of the media today.
Eh, MH Wilds and DD2 kinda knocked Capcom down a peg or two it seems like. They need to get those back in order, specifically Monster Hunter.
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simpatico
Member
He's not entirely wrong. Probably the biggest problem the publishers are having is being in complete denial about who their customer base is. It's not even like we are demanding insane scope or cutting edge features. They just don't want to make what we want to play, on a personal level. It almost feels punitive. Pubs are going out of their way to lose money. Literally spending more then they would have to if they just made the games their customers wanted. It seems like DICE has finally come around, but before BF6 EA was choosing not to reskin BFBC2 and just sit back to rake in the hundreds of millions. UbiSoft does it every day by not throwing a new lighting pass on Splinter Cell Blacklist and cranking out some generic spy thriller maps and story. Ghost Recon and Rainbow 6 could both be printing money as I type this. But the people who work there don't want to make it. If the shareholders only knew how bad things really are.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Shawn is one of the few Playstation CEOs I like and appreciate... Because I support Gravity Rush and listen to the people.
ByWatterson
Member
Shawn Layden is the Beto O'Rourke of Phil Spencers.
bender
What time is it?
Shawn's been a part of a successful brand so I'm not sure the comparison to Spencer is apt.
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FoxMcChief
Gold Member
No fucking shit Sherlock.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Sony clearly knows their market.
Examples: Concord, going third party and raising prices.
Examples: Concord, going third party and raising prices.
ByWatterson
Member
He's past his use-by date and he won't shut the hell up
Robochobo
Member
Nintendo players look like THAT?the fan base
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Everything he said is wrong.
Fans are totally whipped, trained, engineered into complete and utter submission without question. We buy anything with the Nintendo seal since 1985 ..
We the fans are in touch with Nintendo, and we are okay with being emotional and financially abused.The more XBOX and Sony fuck up, the strong the pull.
Nintendo is confused as hell why, but its easy money.
Fans are totally whipped, trained, engineered into complete and utter submission without question. We buy anything with the Nintendo seal since 1985 ..
We the fans are in touch with Nintendo, and we are okay with being emotional and financially abused.The more XBOX and Sony fuck up, the strong the pull.
Nintendo is confused as hell why, but its easy money.
Paasei
Member
Nintendo does seem to be the only one that doesn't need a limitless budget and 5000 or more to make one game that is the same old UE5 game you've played many times before, albeit in a different engine. Too much story and too little engaging A.I. and gameplay.
After fuck knows how many Mario games, they are still great fun to play. Because there's always that little twist or adjustment made in the gameplay that keeps you into it, without missing the previous title and its changes much.
I just want that OLED model should it arrive in a few years from now. Then I'll be into the Switch 2.
After fuck knows how many Mario games, they are still great fun to play. Because there's always that little twist or adjustment made in the gameplay that keeps you into it, without missing the previous title and its changes much.
I just want that OLED model should it arrive in a few years from now. Then I'll be into the Switch 2.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
What do you know, the company that didn't push ridiculous unsustainable budgets with unneeded graphics and motion capture, to instead make top quality PLAYING titles is running away with the industry right now.
His most valuable point is how Nintendo didn't overreact to the COVID gaming bubble. Sony and Microsoft reacted by seeing live service during COVID explode so they hired thousands of devs to start new projects to feed this explosion and we all know how that turned out. Nintendo didn't do anything. They just continued to release the same games with no hiring spree and they are in a much healthier position for it.
radiant_ch
Member
*cries in F-Zero*
*cries in Wave Race*
*cries in 1080° Snowboarding*
*cries in Wave Race*
*cries in 1080° Snowboarding*
I mean, they launched Switch 2 with F Zero GX... BUT I think the existence of Kirby Air Riders kills Nintendo's desire to make yet another racing game for a few years at least.
Mozza
Member
Same here. I think many on here confuse what they personally want, with what everybody actually wants. This is demonstrated on each and every Nintendo thread.Agreed!
I'm a Nintendo Fan
Mozza
Member
this.... lol
crackajack
Member
yeah, imho they are exactly out of touch with their fans, they do what they think is right and don't listen to any fan wishes.
hence we got a gamecube with a limiting minidisc, a gamecube 3.0 with a tablet, but also Wii sports/fit and twice a handheld console combo, which Sony probably thought about doing, with the Vita and its unused port, but did not trust themselves. Sony drops eyetoy, only to revive the camera for Move, drops Move only to revive that for VR ... MS the same; goes all in on Kinect only to backpedal entirely, and also 180s on online drm before even actually trying. Nintendo is commited to their products and ideas, for better or worse, they ride them to the end. so if you buy anything you know you will get at least their first party at full force. Unless it is Virtual Boy... lol
PatientGamer
Member
Wow, HipHopGamer is still going?? I used to follow his stuff way back around 2007-ish whenhe was getting a lot of hate. Good to see he still stuck with it.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I think "fanbase" is the wrong word for what he's describing. He's saying they knew to avoid mass hiring during the COVID boom. I think that can more accurately be stated as knowing what their market is, and yeah they've always been extremely aware of that. Iwata's biggest contribution was being in touch with the existence of a broad blue ocean before mobile gaming hit; launching the DS and the Wii. So yeah, they do a lot of deep thinking about their market. Part of the reason they've transitioned to films now to help IP awareness among the next phase of their youngest market; kids.
Not quite the same as knowing what their "fanbase" wants. If we're talking "fanbase," I think actually Microsoft knows pretty well what they want and have their finger on the pulse. I swear sometimes they read all these comments because all I talked about last February was forward compatibility and keeping my library, and they're doing it. They know Ninja Gaiden is important to people and made it happen. They know people like obscure old stuff like Hexen. It's easy to trash them, but they know exactly what their fanbase is thinking and respond rapidly. MS is much less skilled and knowing what their market is, but they know their fanbase. Nintendo knows their market, but doesn't really know their fanbase.
Also, a large part of Nintendo avoiding the hiring spree also is that they really don't want to hire a ton of designers with previous experience in other studios or other styles of game development. They want new employees who can be trained in the Nintendo culture as lifers. They've always been that way. Their hiring is slower, and they don't fire people much if ever. They have to create their new employees from scratch to know how to fit into their culture so it's just a slow process.
Not quite the same as knowing what their "fanbase" wants. If we're talking "fanbase," I think actually Microsoft knows pretty well what they want and have their finger on the pulse. I swear sometimes they read all these comments because all I talked about last February was forward compatibility and keeping my library, and they're doing it. They know Ninja Gaiden is important to people and made it happen. They know people like obscure old stuff like Hexen. It's easy to trash them, but they know exactly what their fanbase is thinking and respond rapidly. MS is much less skilled and knowing what their market is, but they know their fanbase. Nintendo knows their market, but doesn't really know their fanbase.
Also, a large part of Nintendo avoiding the hiring spree also is that they really don't want to hire a ton of designers with previous experience in other studios or other styles of game development. They want new employees who can be trained in the Nintendo culture as lifers. They've always been that way. Their hiring is slower, and they don't fire people much if ever. They have to create their new employees from scratch to know how to fit into their culture so it's just a slow process.
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Tams
Member
Add in Star Fox.
The cold hard truth is that none of them sold particularly well. And with no leading developers at Nintendo willing to push for years for their revival, there won't be any until Nintendo have the spare resources and a gap to fill.
Freelance Yakuza
Member
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
I partially agree.
I think Nintendo knows the demographic it goes after. That doesn't always mean it makes the best decision for its fans. Nintendo cares far less about its fans, since the aging fanbase are more than often raging fanboy weirdos.
In terms of the most fanatical, least objective, most cultish fanboys, Nintendo hardcore fans are up there with the worst Xbots. These are the folks that will bend over and take anything Nintendo does up the arse and call it great no matter how painful it is in reality.... i.e. the types that defended Steel Diver as a top tier launch title when that low effort POS launched, and the types that continually defend the Pokemon dev for the consistent devolution of the series.
Meanwhile, the demographic that Nintendo targets and is actually in tune with is young kids of all ages. Those without platform allegiance who are just happy to play colourful games on a personal device.
I think Nintendo knows the demographic it goes after. That doesn't always mean it makes the best decision for its fans. Nintendo cares far less about its fans, since the aging fanbase are more than often raging fanboy weirdos.
In terms of the most fanatical, least objective, most cultish fanboys, Nintendo hardcore fans are up there with the worst Xbots. These are the folks that will bend over and take anything Nintendo does up the arse and call it great no matter how painful it is in reality.... i.e. the types that defended Steel Diver as a top tier launch title when that low effort POS launched, and the types that continually defend the Pokemon dev for the consistent devolution of the series.
Meanwhile, the demographic that Nintendo targets and is actually in tune with is young kids of all ages. Those without platform allegiance who are just happy to play colourful games on a personal device.
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