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Extremist Militia Occupies Federal Building In Oregon

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Native Americans also took over Alcatraz for nearly 2 years in 1969, pretty interesting story
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Alcatraz

hahahahahaha... Just thought of something. What they're doing is a federal crime, right? So when they're convicted they lose the legal right to own guns, right?

Not necessarily. USC 930 deals with bringing arms to a federal building, and explicitly says carrying firearms for the purpose of hunting is allowed if the building is incidental to hunting. So they will all claim they are there for hunting, which would pass most mustard tests since its a... hunting lodge. Also some language in there about what happens if no federal employees are present, and its not clear whether its a misdemeanor or a felony.
 
Some selective truth idiots are saying it is a double standard from the left to demonize this yet support Occupy wallstreet. They forget that the occupy people didn't do it with guns.
 
Hopefully this gets resolved peacefully and everyone involved heads to jail.

Not really understanding why some people want the Feds to storm the building, putting the feds lives in danger along with those in the building who might not be actual combatants. (Kids etc).
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Question: If there does eventually happen to be a shootout and some police officers wind up getting killed, who will Fox proclaim as the bad guys in this scenario?
 

PBY

Banned

You're not wrong.

"I don't support the actions of these people, but you have to agree - sometimes enough is enough, and people are pushed to action. Obama has done nothing but divide this nation, and these are the consequences.
Fuck Ferguson and BLM tho
"
 

Curufinwe

Member
Hopefully this gets resolved peacefully and everyone involved heads to jail.

Not really understanding why some people want the Feds to storm the building, putting the feds lives in danger along with those in the building who might not be actual combatants. (Kids etc).

To deter future acts of domestic terrorism.
 

fixedpoint

Member
I can't think of a single federal building ever occupied that mattered *less* than this one. It makes Alcatraz look like some massive operation. For all their rhetoric and "patriot" banner-dressing, these guys basically picked the target the least people care about, presumably because they thought it wouldn't immediately trigger a response that could land them in some very hot water very quickly. Certainly going in when it was abandoned was a smart idea if they didn't want to get popped.

As it is, they still have bought some tickets to prison for at least the ringleaders, and there's likely no walking back from that. Certainly isn't going to do jack for their grievances (and the stupid thing is that there are plenty of issues with how much of the land within the western states is federal, and the misuse of federal lands for private and public interests. And these guys are utterly the wrong people to even try and turn that into a galvanizing issue.)

I think they picked it because the Hammonds (the arsonists) have had a beef with the Fish and Wildlife Service, and this wildlife refuge in particular, for decades. Dwight Hammond apparently assaulted refuge staff in 1994, and had been sending death threats to other refuge staff since the 80's.

rvVQKXv.png
via https://books.google.com/books?id=okGzJ2xD73AC&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=1994+disturbing+and+interfering+Hammond&source=bl&ots=zY4585Sg-1&sig=3Qj-B7MxYKM8Sy0ydrOX4k0GYcU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7hLWEso7KAhXDmh4KHfOdBi0Q6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q&f=false
 
I don't see how this will lead to the downfall of the federal government. These people are insane.

Same here. My Obama-hating half brother is cheering about this on his Facebook saying "The Dragon is finally awake" and "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I don't even...
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
So this facility was closed for the holidays. Were any employees scheduled to return today, and what's going to happen to them?
 

besada

Banned
So this facility was closed for the holidays. Were any employees scheduled to return today, and what's going to happen to them?
Employees were scheduled to return today, but have been kept from returning to work until the occupation is done, as the refuge center is officially closed.
 
You're not wrong.

"I don't support the actions of these people, but you have to agree - sometimes enough is enough, and people are pushed to action. Obama has done nothing but divide this nation, and these are the consequences.
Fuck Ferguson and BLM tho
"

I could copy and paste this in the bundy thread on Fox News and it would get a thousand likes. Actually, I think I may had seen something like this already.
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Any parallels that people are making with civil rights are disingenuous since this case has already been heard by Federal courts. His claims are completely asinine and selfish.

Just pay the damn fees like you used to.

I agree, Cliven should pay his fees and the Hammonds should do their time.

It's sad that these right-wing nutjobs hijacked the Oregon situation, as it's not doing any one any good. Cliven welcomed them.

Employees were scheduled to return today, but have been kept from returning to work until the occupation is done, as the refuge center is officially closed.

This is correct.
 

Jinaar

Member
I wonder if there are drones flying overhead of the compound, waiting to drop their Freedom Payloads on these domestic terrorists. Don't need to have boots on the ground for this event.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Why do people keep joking about the feds going in and killing everyone? That seems pretty gross and sick.

Why?

I mean, I prefer if no one died and they were all arrested and given long prison sentences. But once you openly threaten to murder people, you tend to lose any sympathy for what may eventually happen to you.
 

lawnchair

Banned
Why do people keep joking about the feds going in and killing everyone? That seems pretty gross and sick.

it isn't sick to hold the opinion that the federal government should come down hard on armed groups (which many are calling terrorist in nature) who have taken over federal property.

many people are frustrated because no pressure is being applied at all. they could turn off the power, turn off the water, encircle the area, break the roadblocks the militia has set up and at least exert some form of control. the feds have done nothing and people don't like that.
 

Auctopus

Member
I don't get why this isn't receiving more international coverage?

Isn't this an armed takeover? Everyone seems pretty cool about this.
 

John Dunbar

correct about everything
Employees were scheduled to return today, but have been kept from returning to work until the occupation is done, as the refuge center is officially closed.

do they still get paid? if so this is a pretty sweet deal for them. i wish my workplace was occupied by nutcases. well, it already is, but they are paid to be there.
 

andycapps

Member
Why?

I mean, I prefer if no one died and they were all arrested and given long prison sentences. But once you openly threaten to murder people, you tend to lose any sympathy for what may eventually happen to you.

Then you make them martyrs for the right-wing "Obama's taking away our guns" type. I'm assuming they're not even wanting to give this much publicity because that's what they want. Don't want copycats, though I think they're inevitable at this point.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
It does me. I can't find a historical situation where a federal building was taken and they didn't cordon the site nearly immediately, if for no,other reason than to stop random people from wandering in. But there's been no one to stop the press, random youtubers, or further militia from rolling up to the blockade the militia has set up at the entrance.

If you can find an example, I'd be fascinated to see it. I already looked at the BIA (cordon around the building within hours) and Wounded Knee occupations (every road for fifteen miles blocked on the first day) as well as multiple draft office occupations, all of which fit the mold of a nearly immediate cordon, so yeah, it seems a little unusual to me.

Ruby Ridge and Waco has the feds playing this one much more cautiously.

I can't think of a single federal building ever occupied that mattered *less* than this one. It makes Alcatraz look like some massive operation. For all their rhetoric and "patriot" banner-dressing, these guys basically picked the target the least people care about, presumably because they thought it wouldn't immediately trigger a response that could land them in some very hot water very quickly. Certainly going in when it was abandoned was a smart idea if they didn't want to get popped.

As it is, they still have bought some tickets to prison for at least the ringleaders, and there's likely no walking back from that. Certainly isn't going to do jack for their grievances (and the stupid thing is that there are plenty of issues with how much of the land within the western states is federal, and the misuse of federal lands for private and public interests. And these guys are utterly the wrong people to even try and turn that into a galvanizing issue.)

There's also the idea that as long as the Feds don't engage - it takes away the group's main goal - which is to get attention and spread their message.

it isn't sick to hold the opinion that the federal government should come down hard on armed groups (which many are calling terrorist in nature) who have taken over federal property.

many people are frustrated because no pressure is being applied at all. they could turn off the power, turn off the water, encircle the area, break the roadblocks the militia has set up and at least exert some form of control. the feds have done nothing and people don't like that.

People are often short sighted and don't think long term. I don't want them applying that kind of pressure because a) it has ended badly in the past and b) I don't want them getting ideas on what to do for a BLM or Occupy protest further down the road.

Look; the best way to treat a fringe militia group that has grabbed a fairly meaningless (and completely uninhabited) target in hopes of provoking a confrontation with the feds in order to gain attention and visibility and supporters is to just ignore them. I don't like it when people who disagree with BLM or Occupy are like "cops should just throw them all in jail once they break a law (which mind you, we do all the time)" / being hyper aggressive - that leads to more problems. Same philosophy here.
 

Joezie

Member
they need to develop a mass tazer tech with an area of affect bzzzzzzzzz mass tazing

storyimages_1312226838_aispitchessdetentioncenter.jpg_640x426_310x220


It isn't quite as mass(or taser for that matter) as say its older brother

Active_Denial_System_Humvee.jpg


But it's there in some capacity for law enforcement as Raytheon has been marketing such systems to them ever since the ADS fell through in Afghanistan without combat use despite deployment.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
Probably heard it on a podcast somewhere, but I heard that disability is rising in the south/appalachia because the jobs are leaving. Shame that dude can't see the hypocrisy here.
It was on NPR I think, can't remember what exactly, but I remember it was about the rise of doctors giving people fake disability so they can continue to live in small town rural southern US and survive.
 

commedieu

Banned
Probably heard it on a podcast somewhere, but I heard that disability is rising in the south/appalachia because the jobs are leaving. Shame that dude can't see the hypocrisy here.

Can't see it? What is hypocritical? That is money for him, and his brothers. Federal money isn't for minorities, the homeless, or women.

I mean when you're insane to begin with, thats pretty solid insane logic. Get gubermints outta my medicare, etc etc.
 
hahahahahaha...

Just thought of something. What they're doing is a federal crime, right? So when they're convicted they lose the legal right to own guns, right?

Well yea they should be all arrested, charged, and guns taken away as by the law. Of course this will likely not happen. Last stand off with government, they walked away without punishment despite aiming guns at law enforcement
 

Fuchsdh

Member
There's also the idea that as long as the Feds don't engage - it takes away the group's main goal - which is to get attention and spread their message.

True, although as good an idea as "deny the trolls" tends to be, I imagine at this level it sends the wrong message. The government has to be the one to say that the law is the law and you're going to address the violations.

With the press, too, you've already lost the ability to deny these guys a platform or attention.

It was on NPR I think, can't remember what exactly, but I remember it was about the rise of doctors giving people fake disability so they can continue to live in small town rural southern US and survive.

An episode of This American Life investigated this.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/490/transcript

It's not really as pernicious as you make it sound, more a consequence of low education and other factors. If you're a manual labor and that's all you can do, getting maimed or having serious back pain effectively neutralizes your income far more than other service sectors and "intellectual" work. We tend to focus on cycles of poverty and feedback loops in an urban context, but there are different but similar reinforcing trends unique to rural areas as well.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I can't even process how BLM is considered a government entity.

I think they mean the Bureau of Land Management, not Black Lives Matter.

Though, as a Final Fantasy fan, every time I see BLM I expect to see wizards lobbing fireballs at each other and end up disappointed every single time.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Wait them out. Stop with the extremist shooting them nonsense. The Black Panthers proved that if it's a militia, the "if they were black" line is nonsense, quoted below for a new page.

robert-and-mabel-williams.jpg


BlackPantherParty.jpg



According to Hill, this is the true resistance that enforced civil rights in areas of the Deep South. Often it was local (armed) communities that laid the foundation for equal opportunities to be attained by African Americans. National organizations played their role, exposing the problems, but it was local organizations and individuals who implemented these rights and were not fearful of reactionary Whites who wanted to keep segregation alive. Without these local organizations pushing for their rights and, many times, using self-defense tactics, not much would have changed, according to Hill.

An example of the need for self-defense to enable substantial change in the Deep South took place in early 1965. Black students picketing the local high school were confronted by hostile police and fire trucks with hoses. A car of four Deacons emerged and, in view of the police, calmly loaded their shotguns. The police ordered the fire truck to withdraw. This was the first time in the 20th century, as Lance Hill observes, “an armed black organization had successfully used weapons to defend a lawful protest against an attack by law enforcement.”[4] Hill gives as another example: “In Jonesboro, the Deacons made history when they compelled Louisiana governor John McKeithen to intervene in the city’s civil rights crisis and require a compromise with city leaders — the first capitulation to the civil rights movement by a Deep South governor.”​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacons_for_Defense_and_Justice

The black community of Richmond, California, wanted protection against police brutality.[46] With only three main streets for entering and exiting the neighborhood, it was easy for police to control, contain, and suppress the majority African-American community.[47] On April 1, 1967, a black, unarmed twenty-two-year-old construction worker named Denzil Dowell was shot dead by police in North Richmond.[48] Dowell's family contacted the Black Panther Party for assistance after county officials refused to investigate the case.[49] The Party held rallies in North Richmond that educated the community on armed self-defense and the Denzil Dowell incident.[50] Police seldom interfered at these rallies because every Panther was armed and no laws were broken.[51] The Party's ideals resonated with several community members, who then brought their own guns to the next rallies.

Awareness of the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense grew rapidly after their May 2, 1967, protest at the California State Assembly. On May 2, 1967, the California State Assembly Committee on Criminal Procedure was scheduled to convene to discuss what was known as the "Mulford Act", which would make the public carrying of loaded firearms illegal. Eldridge Cleaver and Newton put together a plan to send a group of 26 armed Panthers led by Seale from Oakland to Sacramento to protest the bill. The group entered the assembly carrying their weapons, an incident which was widely publicized, and which prompted police to arrest Seale and five others. The group pleaded guilty to misdemeanor charges of disrupting a legislative session.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party

This is what happens when the contributions made by non-pacifist black activists are ignored and slowly erased from history. People have no idea why they have the rights that they do or how they got them. There's a reason why people like prosecutor McGinty quote Martin Luther King Jr. so frequently.

The government is going to try to wait them out at least for a while and not draw attention to these extremists


Wow, the hypocrisy is amazing. He doesn't seem to understand that his disability payments are "big government" providing some legislated equality to him.

I can't even process how BLM is considered a government entity.

The Bureau of Land Management. Wingnuts or not I wouldn't be surprised if some of these militia members either do not know or could care less (in any sense of the word) about the other acronym.
 
To deter future acts of domestic terrorism.

Yeah no, lets martyr these guys, kill some kids, have some of our own guys get killed because...reasons.

If people in the future want to take over a building, hang out for a week, then spend 10-15 years in prison when they come out, then so be it.
 
Violence should not happen, but there needs to be punishment unlike the ranch standoff where there was clear threats made against law enforcement. No charges were pressed and the BLM caved to demands of these thugs.

They are breaking laws, they should be arrested and charged no matter the outcome. If they are allowed to walk free....
 
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