Pancake Mix
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...What on Earth? That would do nothing of the sort, look at Timothy McVeigh's "logic." A lot of it had to do with the Waco Siege.
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Extremist Militia Occupies Federal Building In Oregon
- Thread starter jmood88
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...What on Earth? That would do nothing of the sort, look at Timothy McVeigh's "logic." A lot of it had to do with the Waco Siege.
it seems to me like no matter how this thing ends the nutjobs will claim victory. if they're able to hole up there for a month with their guns and threats of violence, and then eventually give themselves up, the message to all of the other maniacs with guns is "look, because we have our guns we are able to defy the government for a month. guns and freedom are great! get more guns! you too can accomplish what we have!"
if it comes down to the feds raiding the place and killing a handful of people they'll say "look how violent and dictatorial obama is, we need more guns to protect ourselves blah blah blah". either end is a win for the lunatics. but in option #2 it is made clear that the federal government isn't going to put up with gun wielding terrorists trying to claim territory in america, which i see as a preferable solution, even if it still carries negatives with it.
if it comes down to the feds raiding the place and killing a handful of people they'll say "look how violent and dictatorial obama is, we need more guns to protect ourselves blah blah blah". either end is a win for the lunatics. but in option #2 it is made clear that the federal government isn't going to put up with gun wielding terrorists trying to claim territory in america, which i see as a preferable solution, even if it still carries negatives with it.
Option 1 seems preferable to me.
superdeluxe
Member
Getting guns taken away and sitting in the pen for 20 years!
Yeah Option 2 is the preferred resolution.
Why is 2 preferable? Im not sure that violence will be a deterrent force here, rather the opposite I think.
The difference with the panthers is they weren't breaking any laws by owning guns. These terrorists in Orgegan broke into a federal facility.
The panthers were heavily infiltrated by the FBI. I'm wondering if there's a cointelpro type program being waged against these militia groups.
to their "fans" all across the country, they're significant martyrs either way.
Maybe - but don't you think these dudes (and here Im projecting based on really little facts) are dying to pop off? I feel like these dudes want a confrontation.
Been watching the live feed for a long time now still no agencies taking control. Hell they just had a convoy pull in a bit ago. This shit is ridiculous I've seen teens and young children mixed in the crowd. I hope the feds are identifing all the people there and add them to watch lists.
Validation is not the same as engagement. Notice how...frankly no one already cares. The nice thing about the 24/7 news cycle is that you don't have to wait very long till the press moves on to something else more interesting.
As for rural poverty - pretty much this. There's a huge blind spot in many progressives about rural poverty (they deserve it! hicks! bible-thumpers!) that they often criticize others for having w/r/t urban poverty.
Has this been posted? Its NSFW satire on the situation from Ireland.
i'm not sure. maybe so. my gut reaction is that they should've gotten the confrontation they were looking for a few hours after they took the building. if it was just ten armed dudes who had taken the building and the feds had gone in immediately and removed/shot them i wouldn't have had a problem with it at all. but it seems that they've been allowed to bring in more people, their families are there, kids are there (?). that that was allowed to occur is beyond ridiculous. i'll admit its a very complicated situation. if it is a group of hardline guys with women and children there, the likelihood of innocents getting killed goes up by a lot. i don't want to see kids getting blown up, either.. i would assume that these militia men don't want to see their wives/kids shot up either. sigh. it's just extremely frustrating and disappointing that the situation has been allowed to reach this point.
rofl, people here actually thought they were protesting Black Lives Matter?
fixedpoint
Member
So these idiots are apparently Mormon extremists?
http://www.opb.org/news/article/explainer-the-bundy-militias-particular-brand-of-mormonism/
http://www.opb.org/news/article/explainer-the-bundy-militias-particular-brand-of-mormonism/
That's pretty great, was going to clarify one of the exaggerations but it's obviously satire and not meant to be taken too seriously.
to me this is a good example of something that could be done. we've got this Captain Moroni using his truck to block a road in support of the terrorists holding the building. Have some properly equipped law enforcement officers roll up on Captain Moroni from Utah and tell him to move his truck. If he doesn't, arrest him. If he goes for his gun, shoot him like we do any other gun wielding criminal. jesus christ. just do something.
I agree. While a peaceful resolution would be nice, I have no sympathy for terrorists, foreign or domestic.
superdeluxe
Member
No.
GAF is applying the same level of regard to the lives of these white people as is applied to the lives of non-white people.
ThreePiMatt
Member
If you recall, there was that super anti-government small-town cop that was posting all those YouTube videos that said he was only doing it because he was getting close to these kind of far-right groups and gathering info for the Feds. Not sure if that ever claim ever was verified or not.
http://www.rawstory.com/2014/12/lib...-lure-right-wing-nutjobs-with-profane-videos/
That same level of regard they blast, insult, and denigrate white people for having, by the way.
Yup, not a perfect analogy here, and i don't think "GAF" at large is doing this, but a peaceful resolution has to be the outcome here.
This isn't terrorism, tho. I don't think so, anyway.
Its hard not to notice that when you're people are killed, everyone hides behind the smallest legal technicality to justify murder.
Yet, when there are actual threats...
This and many other examples illustrate why negros are more dangerous unarmed/ or equipped with pre-puberty and toy guns, than actual threatening armed white men.
Indeed - there's some amount of generalization going on - but as I've said earlier - I want a peaceful outcome because precedent is a thing, and I know what gets used on them could very easily be turned on BlackLivesMatter or OccupyWallStreet or any politically inconvenient protest. (as someone who was at Ferguson - there were quite a few armed folks protesting; we just don't carry them as visibly.)
Aside: explanations from a legal point about the Oregon situation
https://popehat.com/2016/01/04/what-happened-in-the-hammond-sentencing-in-oregon-a-lawsplainer/
I don't want them to get killed, but I don't want them to be given a pass for their behavior either. There's no doubt that if this were a group of Muslims that they'd have been blown into a fine red mist within a couple hours of them arriving at the Federal Building, even if they had the same grievances as these Y'allQaeda folk.
We always like to talk in the US about actions 'emboldening terrorists'. Nothing emboldens them more than letting them have their way with no repercussions or punishment. I wouldn't even be surprised if they're just allowed to leave scot-free when they've had enough of their childish little tantrum.
radios shipping overview
Member
This is another take on the subject, with more history, written from more of an insider's perspective:
http://www.feministmormonhousewives...e-more-violent-fanatics-than-other-religions/
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Why would it not be?
I think armed confrontation would embolden more of this than just a wet fart and jail for all these dudes.
That's...actually not true. When was the last time any group of armed folks (of any race) had that happen to them in this country?
PS: It was the white group that had it happen to them. (Waco)
onadesertedisland
Member
So if these people enjoy guns, since they have willingly, and openly committed felonies, did they not realize they are going to lose the privilege of gun ownership?
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
They didn't lose shit last time
superdeluxe
Member
If the feds let them walk without jail time, then you have a point.
They took over a government building previously?
Rebel Leader
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They aren't threatening people/targeting civilians. They're armed militants. They aren't affiliated with a known terrorist group. I think it's kinda weird to call them that. They're idiots, I dunno about terrorists.
superdeluxe
Member
I didn't think there were actually any federal crimes committed at the Bundy standoff?
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Almost certainly. While some segments of the population don't take militias and sovereign citizens seriously, the FBI are not part of that segment. They've designated domestic terrorism, and particularly sovereign citizen groups, as the largest danger to law enforcement officers, after more than a decade of ambush attacks on LEOs.
The FBI are actively recruiting informants in the various militia groups. Multiple stories have come out of failed informants, or successful informants that provided testimony.
SaviourMK2
Member
Don't make them think, it hurts to think
Can one of the site admins make it so URL tag text is always visible, regardless of spoiler tags?
Clicking on the spoiler tag to see the underlying text takes you to God-knows-where-on-the-internet and seems like an easy phising vector.
Clicking on the spoiler tag to see the underlying text takes you to God-knows-where-on-the-internet and seems like an easy phising vector.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
They're not threatening people? So anyone, including federal agents, can just walk in and out of the building at will?
RPGCrazied
Member
Excuse me? Yet no media outlet is saying much of anything.
This is getting a bit sad now.
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