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Extremist Militia Occupies Federal Building In Oregon
- Thread starter jmood88
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RPGCrazied
Member
That's not live.
Apologies if it's not live was using the link posted earlier in the thread thought it was still live.
I only put it in spoiler tags because the text in the URL might be a bit much for some people. Be good if you could reveal the spoiler without going to the link.
Yes, so maybe once some White people get a taste of their own medicine, they might just realize that it doesn't taste so good....
This isn't the way.
Captin Quacker
Member
Is that actually what they're doing?
Honestly as long as they're contained by the authorities within a remote location and the movement burns itself out, that's probably a more reasonable outcome imo. I'm not about inciting some kind of retaliation from a group of people who are clearly asking for a fight. Better to just wait them out and avoid bloodshed over a movement that has no legs. The fact that they feel entitled to the land and want to use if for their own ends is awful though.
Agree with the bolded 100%.
I can't think of many times when "hey treat them like shit, then they're learn that sucks and be nice to us" has worked out too well.
It's certainly not what liberals suggest we do to the terrorists overseas, so it's weird to hear it suggested for our own ills.
It's not saying it's okay either, this shit is straight up ridiculous and I hope they're dealt with peacefully. Still asking for the authorities to walk into a firefight because some dudes are thumping their chest and waving their guns under the guise of patriotism is definitely not the way to go.
Yeah, I totally agree. I think most of these dudes have these power fantasies of going out blazing against the government.
Not sure what the harm is in letting this run its course, putting them in jail eventually and no one will remember any of this or care, and no martyrs will be made.
Captin Quacker
Member
Then what can be done.
There damned if they do and damned if they don't
If these were a bunch of brown people this would have been long over
Totally agree with the bolded. Doesn't mean we should just apply the shitty things we do there, here (it is unfortunate how that does reinforce a double standard though).
wild wild rice
Member
Are there any level headed explanations of the enmity between federal and private landholders in the West?
RageWaffles
Member
This is where the government should be building a border wall: Just put up a big fence around that building, let them know that there's food and water inside of police vans, and wait.
I hope no federal employees or police end up getting hurt because of these idiots.
I hope no federal employees or police end up getting hurt because of these idiots.
Damn straight. The indigenous Americans who occupied Alcatraz were gassed within an hour: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Alcatraz
Wait them out and punish them harshly using the criminal justice system.
Cut the water and power to the building and they won't last a week.
I find the angry comments in this thread understandable, but it's not the right approach. Expressing the anger is fine, but we should also be demanding that the Police don't attack these people right off the bat because that's what we expect of them in all situations.
Captin Quacker
Member
Umm...that article says it lasted 19 months.
I mean, I agree.
But is it preferable to storm the building, have a shoot out, end up with dead bodies on both sides, and then make martyrs out of everyone?
Let's just run in and kill the people who walk into an uninhabited federal compound protesting something we don't agree with, potentially risking the lives of federal officers as well as women and children. Because they're the dirty rednecks who aren't worth actual human lives; they (on a general term) do terrible things and believe in terrible things and we should get rid of them when we get the opportunity. Instead of, you know, just cutting off power & water and waiting a week or two. Or maybe a month.
Huh. That sounds kind of oddly familiar. But it isn't usually dirty rednecks that happens to.
So basically you agree with Trump's tactics, just want to do it to people you don't like rather than you do like.
Got it.
Pilgrimzero
Member
All the Feds need to do is blockage it so they get no fresh food and water. Also, cut the power.
Then wait and things will sort themselves out.
Then wait and things will sort themselves out.
wild wild rice
Member
Thanks. NPR is running a segment on this at the moment and I'll peep these afterwards.
Captin Quacker
Member
They'll be painted as martyrs either way
Like I said earlier if they were brown they either be in jail or dead by now
The fact that nothing has been done is rridiculous
"No, you don't understand guys. If they assault the precious white snowflakes holding a federal building while armed they'll be just as bad as the people muder unarmed minorities in cold blood. We must be merciful to this specific group."
What is the appropriate response to a situation like this, and why shouldn't that be the response here?
Except that's never happened in recent American history.
The only recent comparable situations would be a) Waco (which was a bunch of white people who got killed) and b) the link above about Native Americans inside of Alcatraz, where they waited 19 months before they did anything.
"Look at me, I don't understand the difference between the FBI and federal officers versus racist cops in racist cities! Hur hur! All government people with guns are the same!" I mean, who cares that the last time this happened federal officers were killed and they accidentally burned down the compound with people inside. Right? If one group gets screwed, we must screw everyone else equally! That's the only way we'll learn!
Man, not like we have an overwrought, overfilled and abusive prison system because we care far more about vengeance than justice, right?
Relevant to my point: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/opinion/connecticuts-second-chance-society.html
To be fair, they aren't attempting to influence the functioning of the government, they already did since none of the people that work in that refuge can return to work until this thing is over.
So technically not the definition of terrorism.
Come on.
IrishNinja
Member
the logic being employed here (trump analogies, wow) is...interesting
exactly this
yup, and it shows
exactly this
yup, and it shows
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
This is an armed rebellion, not terrorism.
Have any news outlets done any research into their claims of vindictive overreach by the FWS and BLM against the ranchers? Cuz I tend to think that this didn't come out of nowhere.
Have any news outlets done any research into their claims of vindictive overreach by the FWS and BLM against the ranchers? Cuz I tend to think that this didn't come out of nowhere.
Captin Quacker
Member
Someone said something about cutting power and water and waiting them out which is great but hasn't been done
I mean have we even gottten a press release from anyone saying there on top of this or something along those lines
Do you really think a bunch of armed black people could forcibly take a government building and hold it as long as these people have and get the same response from law enforcement?
BattleMonkey
Member
They were pointing guns right at the police and federal agents. Pointing/aiming a gun at a person in a threatening manner is a crime, yet not a single thing was done.
The FBI supposedly investigated afterwards to try and figure out who was aiming guns exactly at federal agents, but no arrests or anything happened.
A) As someone who believes that black lives are treated pretty shittily - I have a vested interest in making sure that normalizing that level of treatment to everyone is a really bad idea. Justice > Vengeance. If you say its OK to treat white people that way...then all you're doing is giving folks justification to keep treating black people that way as well.
B) You do know that it's a different group of people right? It's just that one of the folks happens to be the son of the leader of the other group.
Vicetrailia
Member
Yes, you are correct. The constant exposure makes you lose your cool at times. It's good to hear a common sense voice of reason.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
The federal government has specific policies for dealing with situations like this after the disaster at Waco. I'm fairly certain that they would follow those policies regardless of the color of the offenders because murdering a giant group of your citizens all at once looks REALLY bad for governmental legitimacy, even if the citizens are assholes.
Assuming this group needs certain resources to function long term, can't police attempt to arrest anyone leaving the building for supplies or block people from entering the area? I get that there is an increased risk in doing that, but I kind of doubt someone is going to go down in a hail of bullets on their way to the grocery store. That and cutting off power and water would force them to somehow be self-sufficient within the area of the building, which would be very difficult.
The sooner these fuckers get out of my state the better. It's just embarrassing that these filth are bringing attention to a state that is generally one of the more progressive in the country.
The sooner these fuckers get out of my state the better. It's just embarrassing that these filth are bringing attention to a state that is generally one of the more progressive in the country.
Seems reasonable. I really do think they want to not even give them the chance to open fire at any one (which is what I think these people want).
radios shipping overview
Member
I think it's kind of fucked up that the Hammonds were resentenced on mandatory sentences related to antiterrorist legislation. I'm guessing it was done to prove a point and punish the Hammonds for their ongoing conflicts with federal interests and employees.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/03/3735647/malheur-lake-oregon-militia-explainer/
As for the Bundy group: they should be denied their goal and best-case scenario (open armed conflict with federal agents) and worn down/starved out until they surrender.
Post Waco? Absolutely. I suspect I'm older than most of the folks here - but Waco changed a lot about how the Federal government (the Feds, not local police) handle armed standoffs. Much more negotiation - waiting people out. As I keep pointing out - everyone says it would be different if it were brown (IE, me) or black folks - but show me a similar situation; ie, armed standoff of a federal building with multiple people (and no hostages) post Waco, that it was done any differently.
I'm sure FOX News would be blathering on about how the Feds need to kick in the doors and arrest everyone and how they're a danger and thugs and yada yada - but I don't think people realize how much the combo of Waco & Ruby Ridge changed things (especially because Waco was directly responsible for some radicalization within the country as well).
The Feds are not the local police; or even the national guard / state police. Had they grabbed a city government building and not a federal building - the response would probably have been different as well.
onadesertedisland
Member
After they surrender, they should be quietly arrested and held on a bond they can't afford to make. They should be given no plea deals and be sent away to be forgotten.
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