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F Zero AX; the time Sega made a Nintendo arcade game...and left the game inside F Zero GX on GameCube

VGEsoterica

VGEsoterica

Member
Sega making Nintendo games during the GameCube era just felt dirty. Previous competitors doing business together directly after the death of Dreamcast. Just felt so sad...but hey...Sega absolutely taught Nintendo a lesson by developing an, IMO, better version of F Zero than Nintendo would have managed.

The Triforce arcade board was a real grab bag of hardware and businesses. Namco, Nintendo and Sega partnered on a new arcade board with Nintendo providing the GameCube, Sega providing the GD-ROM drive from Dreamcast and NAOMI...and Namco just kinda sitting back and watching them do it all. Suddenly you had a combination GameCube/Dreamcast in arcades with Sega developing F Zero games for it. Strange times.

Even stranger? Sega would go on to get F Zero GX ready for home console release for Nintendo...and manage to leave in everything from F Zero AX...just wholly inaccessible. But of course that's never entirely true as data miners figured out how to basically unlock the entirety of F Zero AX inside of the GX versions. Courses, diff difficulties, etc etc etc.

So basically Sega developed an arcade game for Nintendo...using half Sega hardware and half Nintendo hardware...and went on to produce a home version that contained the arcade AX version. Feels so weird it almost sounds made up.

But it's not...it's just one more weird tale of the gaming industry and Nintendo and Sega going from rivals to partners.

But GAF...what is the best F Zero game? because I say it's this

 
Pasta la Vista

Pasta la Vista

Member
Well I never got to play AX, so GX is my choice.
Played a ton of it split screen with my buddies too. Love that game and I'm convinced Nintendo themselves would never be able to top it.
 
Alexios

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
GX is better than AX as a home game and the best futuristic arcade racer period. AX in GX doesn't actually have the different controls/physics of the arcade game so it's just a tweaked/unfinished cup or arcade mode of the latter, nothing that elevates it to more than it was already and it's certainly not the full AX experience. Just a neat extra. I get the Mode 7 style games feel different but GX is clearly a successor of X which was great too and already had most of the elements you praise only for it 🤷
 
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TintoConCasera

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
GX was very cool but I'm they shat the bed with the OST. F-Zero and F-Zero X both had better music.
 
Aldric

Aldric

Member
I don't think Sega's F Zero games are better than Nintendo's, you've got to realize that Sega only took Nintendo's core game design and expanded on it, they didn't invent anything, Nagoshi himself admitted F Zero X was a huge shock to him when he played it. I still think X does things better than GX, it's not as visually cluttered as GX, the OST is far better, it's challenging but doesn't go to the absurd levels of GX's story mission, the course design tool is something GX lacks etc.
 
Naked Lunch

Naked Lunch

Member
Great video.
FZero AX/GX is one of the best games ever created.

The only things I didnt see in the video was talk about the drift mechanic that is separate from the standard side/quick turning (holding in both shoulder turns at the same time) - and that there are attack buttons. Killing your rivals is pretty much the only way to win some of the races on the hardest difficulty.

F-Zero AX/GX might be one of the most difficult games of all time - and that even further adds to its legacy.
Im one of those weirdo freaks who somehow unlocked the AX courses by finishing all tracks on all difficulties - took me years of practice for real.
 
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SkylineRKR

SkylineRKR

Member
The AX courses were already accessible in retail versions, but very hard to unlock. The AX cup itself was very easy to complete.

Its cool though that the entire AX game appeared to be in it, with its intro, front-end and everything. They could've added a cheat code or something.
 
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Never played AX, but GX is still my favorite futuristic racing game ever (love Wipeout HD/Fury too though).

Aldric said:
I don't think Sega's F Zero games are better than Nintendo's, you've got to realize that Sega only took Nintendo's core game design and expanded on it, they didn't invent anything, Nagoshi himself admitted F Zero X was a huge shock to him when he played it. I still think X does things better than GX, it's not as visually cluttered as GX, the OST is far better, it's challenging but doesn't go to the absurd levels of GX's story mission, the course design tool is something GX lacks etc.
Click to expand...

The version of X most people played didn't have the course designer either, only a very basic random course generator.
 
nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
X > GX.

The only thing GX has over X is the graphics.

I even liked X's sparse environments more because they gave you the feeling of being in an isolated track high in the sky, without spectators or crew, with only you and your opponents fighting to the death and no chance of anyone being close enough to help you.

GX gave me Speed Racer vibes. Kinda like huge, loud events with lots of spectators, sponsors, media coverage, etc. X had a more isolated "niche sport for the rich" vibe. Not sure if that's how the lore is supposed to be but i liked it more and was more in line with the SNES original as well, at least visually/artistically. Also, Sega's obsession with casino themed levels, ugh. There is no "F-Zero" atmosphere in GX, just "Sega Arcade" atmosphere. I like that vibe in Sega's own racing games but i prefer F-Zero to be F-Zero, not Outrun or Sega Race TV.

The music is pretty bad in GX. There are a few nice character themes and that's it. The rest is just over-distorted noise. F-Zero X has much better music, though sure, it's a matter of taste so whatever. Also, come on people, it's a first party Nintendo game that has Death Metal music in it, complete with growled vocals. By Nintendo. Of all people.

The controls are also much better in X. They had the double tapping L/R shoulder buttons bump attack that felt incredibly good when used to slam opponents on the wall or out of the track. It could also be used to bump your craft into tight corners without loss of speed, a move i mastered and used to beat most staff ghosts. GX has none of that, they replaced it with a single face button attack move that doesn't look or feel half as good. I don't think i ever used that crap.

The difficulty curve is pretty much perfect in X. GX is all over the place. I did manage to beat it on Master but many times it felt like i was lucky. I never felt this way in X.

So yeah, i feel like GX amazing flashy graphics and performance blinded everyone. I was even blinded by them enough to keep playing for a long time, even though i didn't enjoy the game as much as i did X.

If a new F-Zero game was announced, i would prefer it to look more like X. With an art direction closer to X, tracks high above the ground and all. But the tracks could be even longer and more twisted, with unlimited draw distance and sparse but good looking backgrounds. I mean, Ace Combat 7 looked great by just rendering a bunch of planes in the sky. Same with Flight Simulator. F-Zero should look like that, plus some space themed levels with tracks in orbit around several different planets. And if there are ground based tracks, they could look more like the Hot Wheels expansion levels in the Forza Horizon series.


In conclusion, it's a great game, just not as good as X. Cast me into the fire, i don't care.
 
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anthony2690

anthony2690

Member
Esppiral said:
Star fox adventures supports native widescreen
Click to expand...
Ah yeah, another game not made by Nintendo though as it was made by rare, I don't think Nintendo themselves ever made a wide-screen supported game.

I loved star fox adventures, I was quite surprised to see it isn't well liked when I got the internet though.
 
calistan

calistan

Member
nkarafo said:
X > GX.

The only thing GX has over X is the graphics.

I even liked X's sparse environments more because they gave you the feeling of being in an isolated track high in the sky, without spectators or crew, with only you and your opponents fighting to the death and no chance of anyone being close enough to help you.

GX gave me Speed Racer vibes. Kinda like huge, loud events with lots of spectators, sponsors, media coverage, etc. X had a more isolated "niche sport for the rich" vibe. Not sure if that's how the lore is supposed to be but i liked it more and was more in line with the SNES original as well, at least visually/artistically. Also, Sega's obsession with casino themed levels, ugh. There is no "F-Zero" atmosphere in GX, just "Sega Arcade" atmosphere. I like that vibe in Sega's own racing games but i prefer F-Zero to be F-Zero, not Outrun or Sega Race TV.

The music is pretty bad in GX. There are a few nice character themes and that's it. The rest is just over-distorted noise. F-Zero X has much better music, though sure, it's a matter of taste so whatever. Also, come on people, it's a first party Nintendo game that has Death Metal music in it, complete with growled vocals. By Nintendo. Of all people.

The controls are also much better in X. They had the double tapping L/R shoulder buttons bump attack that felt incredibly good when used to slam opponents on the wall or out of the track. It could also be used to bump your craft into tight corners without loss of speed, a move i mastered and used to beat most staff ghosts. GX has none of that, they replaced it with a single face button attack move that doesn't look or feel half as good. I don't think i ever used that crap.

The difficulty curve is pretty much perfect in X. GX is all over the place. I did manage to beat it on Master but many times it felt like i was lucky. I never felt this way in X.

So yeah, i feel like GX amazing flashy graphics and performance blinded everyone. I was even blinded by them enough to keep playing for a long time, even though i didn't enjoy the game as much as i did X.

If a new F-Zero game was announced, i would prefer it to look more like X. With an art direction closer to X, tracks high above the ground and all. But the tracks could be even longer and more twisted, with unlimited draw distance and sparse but good looking backgrounds. I mean, Ace Combat 7 looked great by just rendering a bunch of planes in the sky. Same with Flight Simulator. F-Zero should look like that, plus some space themed levels with tracks in orbit around several different planets. And if there are ground based tracks, they could look more like the Hot Wheels expansion levels in the Forza Horizon series.


In conclusion, it's a great game, just not as good as X. Cast me into the fire, i don't care.
Click to expand...
GX was all about the graphics, and I never really got the love for it. Typical Sega arcade style over substance. X was a proper F-Zero game.
 
Alexios

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
nkarafo said:
X > GX.

The only thing GX has over X is the graphics.

I even liked X's sparse environments more because they gave you the feeling of being in an isolated track high in the sky, without spectators or crew, with only you and your opponents fighting to the death and no chance of anyone being close enough to help you.

GX gave me Speed Racer vibes. Kinda like huge, loud events with lots of spectators, sponsors, media coverage, etc. X had a more isolated "niche sport for the rich" vibe. Not sure if that's how the lore is supposed to be but i liked it more and was more in line with the SNES original as well, at least visually/artistically. Also, Sega's obsession with casino themed levels, ugh. There is no "F-Zero" atmosphere in GX, just "Sega Arcade" atmosphere. I like that vibe in Sega's own racing games but i prefer F-Zero to be F-Zero, not Outrun or Sega Race TV.

The music is pretty bad in GX. There are a few nice character themes and that's it. The rest is just over-distorted noise. F-Zero X has much better music, though sure, it's a matter of taste so whatever. Also, come on people, it's a first party Nintendo game that has Death Metal music in it, complete with growled vocals. By Nintendo. Of all people.

The controls are also much better in X. They had the double tapping L/R shoulder buttons bump attack that felt incredibly good when used to slam opponents on the wall or out of the track. It could also be used to bump your craft into tight corners without loss of speed, a move i mastered and used to beat most staff ghosts. GX has none of that, they replaced it with a single face button attack move that doesn't look or feel half as good. I don't think i ever used that crap.

The difficulty curve is pretty much perfect in X. GX is all over the place. I did manage to beat it on Master but many times it felt like i was lucky. I never felt this way in X.

So yeah, i feel like GX amazing flashy graphics and performance blinded everyone. I was even blinded by them enough to keep playing for a long time, even though i didn't enjoy the game as much as i did X.

If a new F-Zero game was announced, i would prefer it to look more like X. With an art direction closer to X, tracks high above the ground and all. But the tracks could be even longer and more twisted, with unlimited draw distance and sparse but good looking backgrounds. I mean, Ace Combat 7 looked great by just rendering a bunch of planes in the sky. Same with Flight Simulator. F-Zero should look like that, plus some space themed levels with tracks in orbit around several different planets. And if there are ground based tracks, they could look more like the Hot Wheels expansion levels in the Forza Horizon series.


In conclusion, it's a great game, just not as good as X. Cast me into the fire, i don't care.
Click to expand...
I mean, most of the tracks in GX are also suspended and there's no spectator in sight, you just have cooler backgrounds and they look like actual constructions rather than plain polygons in an empty void. They tried to give this effect in other F-Zero games but with no polygon budget couldn't do much. There's no helping you in most of them if you fall off or anything happens if that's your headcanon. Hell, even on ground there's no helping you if you crash (and explode) at those speeds. As for the style over substance remarks you wanna bro fist or whatever, it's just a literally idiotic claim, especially with so many of GX elements being right out of X so even if one has "more" substance to you that doesn't make the other have too little. Many Sega games are timeless for their gameplay and those not aren't discussed like most other companies' stuff and arcade thrill rides in general.

As for the actual story, wealthy bored folks made the F-Zero Grand Prix to entertain, not endanger themselves for the most part, as other folks competed for galaxy wide fame and money. The only time it was underground and not made a huge event was between F-Zero and X, not during them.

X in fact was meant to be the return of the sport with more safety measures and regulations and what not because the last Grand Prix ended badly or whatever so you got it backwards. The story has since been rebooted, different games seem to (not) mention different events/character bios etc.
 
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nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
Alexios said:
I mean, most of the tracks in GX are also suspended and there's no spectator in sight, you just have cooler backgrounds and they look like actual constructions rather than plain polygons in an empty void. They tried to give this effect in other F-Zero games but with no polygon budget couldn't do much. There's no helping you in most of them if you fall off or anything happens if that's your headcanon. Hell, even on ground there's no helping you if you crash (and explode) at those speeds. As for the style over substance remarks you wanna bro fist or whatever over, that's just a literally idiotic claim, especially with so many of GX elements being straight out of X so even if one has "more" substance to you that doesn't make the other have too little. Many Sega games are timeless for their gameplay and those not aren't discussed like most other companies' stuff and arcades in general 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

GX just doesn't feel like F-Zero to me. It has a different vibe, to me personally. Even the Hot Wheels levels in Horizon remind me of F-Zero more than GX does. Again, to me. Most likely i'm in the minority.

Maybe i'm wrong/biased or see things the wrong way, if there is such thing. But it's still the matter of music, controls and difficulty curve. So even if i liked the art style/vibe in GX i would still prefer X over those reasons.

I played F-Zero X a ton, even after completing every cup, in every difficulty, with every single craft. Even after i beat most of the staff ghosts. Because i enjoyed the controls and feel. In GX i stopped playing after i beat it on Master and didn't bother beating more than a couple of staff ghosts. I thought it was more tiresome to play. Those tapping shoulder buttons made all the difference to me. I suppose it was not Sega's fault that the Gamecube controller only had analog triggers that wouldn't work the same way.
 
Alexios

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I didn't challenge/judge your preference and defended X myself in my first comment.
 
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B

BlakeofT

Member
They should remaster(/remake) GX, and add in online racing, and maybe adjust the story mode difficulty. I'd love a new F-Zero, but I would be happy with a re-release of some kind.
 
Dr. Wilkinson

Dr. Wilkinson

Member
Literally all they’d need to do to sell a couple million units at $50 a piece would be an HD remaster of GX with online functionality.
 
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