Insane Metal
Member
Dat PT performance. Damn.
F1 25 Path Tracing update early access
- Thread starter Gaiff
- Start date
This statement not make sense at all. Faked lighting isn't a less noticeable difference compared any real time rendering insofar as better can be path tracing over raytracing.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Look at the post I'm replying to. He said they nerfed the standard RT mode to shit, but the standard RT mode uses the same techniques as F1 24…DDGI for the lighting because it's cost-effective, so they didn't pare back the RT. They enhanced it with the new mode.
Miles708
Member
I don't understand, why does this need to be in real-time? If the time of day doesn't change, why not use path tracing during dev to look at various light sources, and then recreate it all during rasterization?
Time of day is fixed, environment is fixed, I don't understand the need for real time computing
Time of day is fixed, environment is fixed, I don't understand the need for real time computing
Bojji
Member
Baking only works for static elemets on the screen (so no cars). It also requites a LOT of time, game has different times of day and weather.
Braag
Member
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Ok so for you between the last two pics there is the bigger difference... I mean, you are free to think so but the pic doesn't exactly help your cause.
Maybe this helps you out.
Braag
Member
Thanks for your input Karim, we will be in touch if we need anything more.
Listen I'm just saying you have just bizzare take and very subjective, but baked effects are far more worse vs raytracing over raytracing vs pathtracing. But you are free to prefer prebaked rendering (which really I don't get it at all, you notice immediately when something is faked when you get used to real time effects.)
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You can still rasterize lights and reflections to look similar to ray traced. That raster in this example is a lazy raster.
Maybe this helps you out.
MadchesterManc
Member
The same could be said for the raytraced example too, nothing stopping you from casting more rays and having multiple bounces to get a similar look to "pathtracing"
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Braag
Member
I.. never said that? What I mean is that tray tracing looks better than rasterization, but path tracing looks vastly better.
My bad for the last sentence,but still the gap among raytracing versus rasterization is a lot more dramatic...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well, yeah. One thing I have noticed is that since RT has started to become more and more of a thing, select devs have pushed out "lazy" raster solutions. Letting RT do the heavy lifting and lessening their artistic craft.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Started playing this on SX today. Looks very nice and clean, nothing popping out over last year's games visually but these racer games always look great.
Though one thing that I wish they'd fixed, the tires on the car always look like they're floating above the track.
And human character models are still pretty sub-par. For a game that promises to have a full fledged 'story' mode, with a lot of front shots of characters, wish they'd spent some more time on it.
Though one thing that I wish they'd fixed, the tires on the car always look like they're floating above the track.
And human character models are still pretty sub-par. For a game that promises to have a full fledged 'story' mode, with a lot of front shots of characters, wish they'd spent some more time on it.
TrebleShot
Member
What are your settings graphically cos mine dont look this sharp at 4k.Game is goated. Best looking racing game on the market now. Cross posting my shots from the graphics fidelity thread:
Also forget all that nonsense about needing a 5090 for path tracing:
Killer8
Member
Not much more than max settings:
Photo mode shots might look a bit better than gameplay so I took a couple screens of how it looks in normal racing. Just disabled the HUD:
I force the latest DLSS version through the Nvidia app:
In-game I also use the RTX Remix overlay filter called "Brightness and Contrast" to tweak a value called shadows to 50. That adds some much needed contrast to the picture.
Hensen Juang
Member
I'd be very curious to compare F1 24 and 25 in RT, but he didn't refer to F1 24 in his post. He said they nerfed the RT presentation probably because of what is being noticed also by many other people around. You would expect to have contact and ambient shadowing in a RT presentation, which is not really the case here. What's the point of having a RT presentation if the basic, primary stuff that a RT presentation would entail, is missing? A RT presentation without contact and ambient shadowing is a nerfed RT presentation.
Yesterday after posting I was actually looking for info regarding CACAO and the AO techniques included in this game, and I also came across the techniques featured in F1 24. When it comes to AO, F1 24 featured HBAO+, AMD CACAO and Intel's ASSAO. F1 25 features CACAO and ASSAO, it dropped HBAO+. Since all the screenshots floating around, including the DF ones, show a very poor SSAO implementation as well, I wanted to check how tunable CACAO and ASSAO are; grabbed the whitepapers and... they are both very tunable. What I mean is that you can get way better results compared to the stuff seen on screenshots. So why does it suck? I have an idea: it starts with N, ends with A, it's green, greedy, and its boss could work on Broadway.
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Justin9mm
Member
Yes everyone knows that mate, I want it on my PS5 where my F1 25 copy is and I have a racing wheel and stand which is setup in my living room for the PS5. I have a PCVR headset for PC. So I should just buy it twice? C'mon.. PlayStation has a huge player base, it's just unacceptable.
dgrdsv
Member
No?
Close to be able to do PT in an AAA game in anything resembling 4K.
Not here, in the purple forum. You have the same avatar doubt it's another person.
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Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It does look really good in some shots, but I feel like I'd be hard pressed to really notice in most shots if not for the side-by-side comparisons. In general, though, it's much more impressive of a jump to me than raytracing was.
Not that I'm actually going to play an EA game to see it in action, but it's cool to see how it's being implemented in the screenshots, at least.
Not that I'm actually going to play an EA game to see it in action, but it's cool to see how it's being implemented in the screenshots, at least.
![L*][*N*K](/data/avatars/m/842/842515.jpg?1750247637){kind=avatar}
L*][*N*K
Member
Unfortunately to you I have a good memory; I copied the test and there is a link to the thread clicking on it, your prediction about PSSR before the real specs leaked:
"For the ML upscaling part I find it rather dubious that there will be any "custom h/w" either tbh because that "custom h/w" would need to sit inside the GPU pipeline making it also an AMD developed one. It is far more likely I think that the "custom" part there would be the s/w not the h/w, namely Sony's ML TAAU, developed and trained by them. That TAAU would probably be able to run on any h/w capable of fast FP16/INT8 math which isn't really that custom and is present in AMD's GPUs for years now - albeit it is absent in the PS5 GPU."
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Well.....of course the PS6 won't do PT in an AAA at native 4K. Why would that be necessary? That's a pure waste of resources.
Skifi28
Member
Still worth it.This will be you after doing three laps in Spa:
Never heard anyone complains about prebaked rendering thought is dated from awhile.
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dgrdsv
Member
How did you arrive from that quote (which ended up being 99% correct btw) to "the PSSR was sort of bilinear upscaling or something in line of such approach, very rudimentary" claim which I never made?
You sure that you're not grasping for straws now?
I had the same nickname there, no need to look at avatars (still have? no idea, I left after they've banned me for a couple of days for using some forbidden word of theirs again).
I'm not saying "native 4K", "resembling 4K" means upscaling well enough to look as 4K as well.
If the console will launch in a couple of years from now you should not expect it to be more powerful that the PC midrange GPUs of today. Most of them aren't able to do PT with a 4K target in current gen AAA games already. And PS6 will have to run next gen games.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You don't think A.I. training will keep getting better every year?
dgrdsv
Member
AI upscaling may be getting better but to run well it will require more h/w than consoles will likely have.
It's not like because I'm not remind precisely your sentence of years ago I'm grasping for straws. Anyway predict PSSR is just a TAAU modified with ML machine because AMD and sony haven't the tech for AI upscaling, it's not 99% correct and it's not that far less absurd... PSSR it's far from a TAAU, not sure why you continue to act as a sort of tech guru to claim such trolling sentences.
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ps5 pro is already well equipped to provide a decent AI upscaler. Why persist to spit out such nonsense about console hardware, I don't get it.
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Driving wise its definitly simcade.
However its good at simulating sport itself. You can set all sessions with real lenght (and saving at any time), tyre and fuel strategy, tyre wear etc.
If youre F1 fan, you should be happy as long youre not expecting driving experience like iRacing.
dgrdsv
Member
"TAAU modified with ML machine" is AI upscaling.
And it needs some +150% more performance to do so which results in about 20% performance loss on these older GPUs.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
That's false. That's only for ray reconstruction.
Can we stop with this nonsense foolishness? It's like to say every algorithm is AI.
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dgrdsv
Member
No, it's not. The change in cost of upscaling is the same if not even bigger, it's just that you're less likely to be limited by that cost with a less complex upscaling option.
What "nonsense"? The only nonsense here so far is you somehow claiming that "TAAU with AI" is "spatial upscaling without AI".
PSSR it's not TAAU. Stop it. You just trolling.
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dgrdsv
Member
PSSR it's not based on temporal accumulation. And again you oversemplify a lot of concepts.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The cost is bigger on every GPU, not just on older GPUs. You'll experience a similar performance loss on all of them. With ray reconstruction, however, the penalty is much bigger on pre-Lovelace GPUs.
Of course it is, Sony themselves say so. It's literally right there when it first leaked.
Shmunter
Member
Fully fledged AI upscaling will be as common as anti aliasing soon enough, seen as nothing but quaint. It's the next iteration that will be interesting, real-time AI enhanced visuals in all manner of areas - lighting, models, animations, interactions.
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Where coming this paragraph? How an AI upscaler can be considered a TAAU?Of course it is, Sony themselves say so. It's literally right there when it first leaked.
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I dunno g, if only there was some kind of watermark on the picture with the source.
Because it uses an AI heuristic to accumulate the samples rather than a hardcoded algorithm like FSR2 etc? Just like any other AI temporal upscaler like DLSS/FSR4/XeSS.
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I don't follow you.
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