Lol, they are really doing their best to piss off the EU. Yesterday Turkey already literally told France to shut up and mind their own business:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1146282/erdogan-tells-french-fm-mind-business-post-coup-crackdown-warning/
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Failed military coup in Turkey; Erdogan promising swift reprisal
- Thread starter nynt9
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Lol, they are really doing their best to piss off the EU. Yesterday Turkey already literally told France to shut up and mind their own business:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1146282/erdogan-tells-french-fm-mind-business-post-coup-crackdown-warning/
NyMartin90
Member
While the Ottoman Empire was degrading in terms in terms of administration and taxation/ military affairs leading to the Young Turk Revolution, Europe's hands are not free of playing a role.
The Great Powers during much of 1800s-1914 had steered the Ottoman Empire through reforms to help it survive but not become powerful again. The "Eastern Question" of the Ottoman Empire saw that Britain didn't want the Ottomans to completely collapse leading to a conflict between them, Russia, France, and Germany for Ottoman territories.
While Britain wanted the Ottomans to survive, Russia wanted it destroyed to take the Straits for itself.
The Ottomans couldn't focus on internal reforms as they were constantly involved in nationalist uprisings (spurned by Russia or just nationalism in general) or colonial wars (like Italy in 1911). The Young Turks wanted a strong army and internal reforms, and were mostly secular until the Counterrevolution of 1909 in which the Islamists didn't want secular leaders and the Committee of Union and Progress had to appease them with more "Islamic" looking reforms. The Young Turks wanted to reform the empire to save it but like the Ottoman sultans before them they couldn't look inwards towards modernization due to immediate external problems like revolts in Albania and the Balkans, war with Italy, and then the Balkan Wars. All of the Sultan's before them had the same problems from Mahmud II, Abdulmecid, Abdulaziz, Murad V, and Abdulhamid II.
The only European empire that was genuine in trying to help the Ottoman empire (from their perspective) was Germany, but Germany wanted them to eventually help them attack Entente colonies in case of war.
The Ottoman Empire was im search of a European ally from 1822-1914, to make sure it can survive if Russia ever attacked and I think that definitely shows that the Great Powers of Europe with the imperialist rivalry is partly to blame.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
They should have let the process get stalled for a while until the smoke clears.
The greek judicial system is notoriously slow moving, why did they have to rush this one through?
Because this throws away all the pressure that Turkey was building on them.
This has nothing to do with them asking for political asylum, that's another process. The tho months are just for entering Greece without permission.
According to their lawyer it could take months to reach a decision regarding political asylum.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
The full quote of the minister regarding the subject.
France probably did such a thing, tho they probably will uphold the obligations under international law better then Turkey for obvious reasons. But just shows how messed up countries (doesn't matter which) react to crisis situations. The patriot act wasn't that long ago either.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Its a political decision this time around, not another random immigrant stuck in bureaucratic hell.
It can take less than a week to happen if the politicians want it, and I have zero trust in Greek politicians to do the right thing.
We'll see. I'm sure Greece wants nothing to do with them but they do have rights and they could go through all the courts of the Greek system.
hobblygobbly
Member
I don't really see Greece sending them back if the situation remains that it's unlikely they will face a fair trial death penalty or not. Last I heard on BBC World News this was what Greek legal experts were saying.
They are not all suspended. Our government sent a message to the ECHR saying that some actions during the state of emergency would trasngress some rights guaranteed by the European Convention on Human Rights. Articles that may be transgressed are article 6 (fair trial), article 8 (respect of private life), article 10 (freedom of speech) and article 11 (freedom of of assembly and association). It's already bad but at least we still have other articles.
I thought Holland already said that the state of emergency has ended? Or was it continued due to recent events?
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Why does the "like France" matter exactly?
France didn't layoff thousands of members of their judiciary, hundreds of their police officers or revoke thousands of schoolteacher licenses. It's nothing like France.
RustyNails
Member
Erdogan is seriously going overboard with the purge. He has sacked 1/3rd of his army's high command. Thats crazy. But more worrisome is the arrest of academics. That's east germany bullshit from before the berlin wall.
paperboywriter
Member
<Insert witty sentence>
Art2: Right to life
art3: prohibition of torture
art4: prohibition of slavery
art7: no punishment without law (you cant invent shit..)
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
Because if you quote somebody or a tweet, you should quote them fully (which he actually did, but his source didn't). Did İ say something about it being the same? Just wanted to understand why France did such a thing and why Turkey felt it nessesary to follow suit. No shit about it being nothing like France.
Edit: for those who are interested, here is a good analyses on why the "coup" failed. Written by Metin Gürcan, probably the best military analyst in Turkey imo.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...-attempt-basic-cause-was-premature-birth.html
I was supposed to end by the end of the month, but with the the recent terrorist attack it has been extended for six months.
gutter_trash
Banned
I guess stacking people half naked in a barn is considered wrongful treatment...
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Never going to be a dull minute from now on.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Listen to this. Hitchens on Turkey and Erg not long before he died (he looked terrible); https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfVwLvzYqj0
There are many ways one might disagree with Hitchens, but you cannot say that he was not sharp and articulate. I think he was very adept and insightful when it came to foreign policy. He also had a rhetoric like a viper. Sometimes very rude, and even an asshole, but also funny.
There are many ways one might disagree with Hitchens, but you cannot say that he was not sharp and articulate. I think he was very adept and insightful when it came to foreign policy. He also had a rhetoric like a viper. Sometimes very rude, and even an asshole, but also funny.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Didn't know this guy, but he really looks like Elon Musk.
I thought it was called Konstantiniyye by the Ottomans until Ataturk changed its name in the early 20th century.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Both Kostantiniyye and İstanbul were used in official documents depending on context up to the 20th century. Istanbul was the common name throughout the whole Ottoman period though, and precursor terms can be found in Greek prior to the Ottoman conquest.
In the 20th c it was more like "We're now officially settling on ONE name" rather than deleting one and inventing a new one.
German poll data.
87% are against Turkey becoming an EU member, that's the highest figure since the poll (ZDF Politbarometer) started in 1977. 9% are in favour of Turkey becoming a member. Rest "I don't know".
87% believe denocracry in Turkey is threatened by the current events. 8% disagree, rest "I don't know".
http://m.heute.de/ZDF/zdfportal/xml/object/44499450
87% are against Turkey becoming an EU member, that's the highest figure since the poll (ZDF Politbarometer) started in 1977. 9% are in favour of Turkey becoming a member. Rest "I don't know".
87% believe denocracry in Turkey is threatened by the current events. 8% disagree, rest "I don't know".
http://m.heute.de/ZDF/zdfportal/xml/object/44499450
That 8% who don't think democracy in Turkey is threatened >.<
Phantast2k
Member
Up from 69% in 2014 and 52% in 2005
Anti-coup protesters being shot point blank: https://twitter.com/HaberturkTV/status/756112870044110849
When exactly are they being shot? All I saw was tear gas or some kind of tranquilizer being shot into the lot.
Phantast2k
Member
No, no. I'm serious
I'm aware of and regret the fact that there were casualties, but in this video we have no audio nor a clear view at what the army is shooting at unless I missed it. The only direct contact being made is the tear gas. It also looks like there were warning shots because everybody suddenly ducked. No knockback, however. That leads me to conclude they did not fire directly into the crowd. That's all. So, if you've seen this news broadcast live, what's there point where they're shooting civilians? I just woke up maybe I'm just totally not seeing it.
Thats percentage is pretty much the same in all EU countries or higher, though no one would openly say it.
Why?
A general lack of support for enlargement, the political climate in Turkey, and baseless cultural xenophobia probably. At the same time, it's not possible to come out and say you don't want Turkey in because of Islam, because that would just be openly discriminatory.
I'm not sure whether it would really be that high in the Netherlands based on discussions I've had with students at my university on the matter, but the composition my social circle is also hardly representative of the broader population. Geert Wilders' party has been growing in support the past years. I think the likelihood of the percentage being higher in Poland is likely, as it is generally quite religious and Christian identity politics are very prominent. In addition they have recently elected a very conservative government that's even given Brussels worry. The Hungarian PM has made openly hostile statements against the refugee seekers as well based on their background, if I recall correctly. Though again, not necessarily representative of popular opinion.
In general, right wing populism has been making a scary comeback by politicizing immigration policy.
Maybrit Illner from yesterday, a German political talkshow. Every guest is sceptical of Erdogan except for an AKP party member, who just a few days ago said on German TV that people should stop the "Erdogan bashing" and that German TV isn't showing the truth.
http://m.heute.de/ZDF/zdfportal/xml/object/44501168
Watching now.
http://m.heute.de/ZDF/zdfportal/xml/object/44501168
Watching now.
trenchfoot
Member
Today in swedish news:
Erdogans party are calling turkish immigrants in Sweden to make them call out on other turks supporting gulen. Wierd.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article23212077.ab
Erdogans party are calling turkish immigrants in Sweden to make them call out on other turks supporting gulen. Wierd.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article23212077.ab
I see. But don't you think the reason right wing is gaining ground is due to the lax immigration policies to begin with?
>.< it's not bad enough back home, we must go on a global scale witch hunt for these Ghoulenists. After all they know magic.
MMaRsu
Member
Chuckie
Member
This shit has been going on in the Netherlands already. A building of a group associated with Gulen was vandalized and people who are Gulen supporters are receiving death threats from Erdogan supporters
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
erdogoons pls go back to turkey
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Gulen is becoming Erdogan's literal coat hanger for every problem.
If there's something strange in you neighborhood
Who you gonna blame? (Gulen party)
If there's something weird
And it don't look good
Who you gonna blame? (Gulen party)
If there's something strange in you neighborhood
Who you gonna blame? (Gulen party)
If there's something weird
And it don't look good
Who you gonna blame? (Gulen party)
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Telling immigrants or those descended from immigrants to "go back where you came from" is scummy behaviour. However, the people carrying out these acts of violence seriously need to consider whether they want to be a part of these societies, if they are compelled to do so on the instruction of thugs from a foreign political party (if you can call them that).
Guerrilas in the Mist
Guellilas in the Mist
Gullian in the Mist
Gulen in the Mist
GET HIM! GET THE GULENIST!
People with Turkish heritage in the Netherlands who speak up are being harassed and non Turkish people dare not say match as they too, you know are scared they'd be harassed or have family members threatened. I think Erdogan has the fear factor and intimidation locked.
Theonik
Member
Germany has a lot of Erdogoons.
FTFY
dont know if its posted, but amnesty claims people have been tortured:
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/k...6/tyrkia-naa-kommer-tilstaaelsene/a/23746042/
Not looking good this.
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/k...6/tyrkia-naa-kommer-tilstaaelsene/a/23746042/
Not looking good this.
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