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Famitsu and Media Create Sales: 12/22 - 12/28
- Thread starter donny2112
- Start date
For what it's worth there are a couple videos of Cybernetic Empire on nico douga.Rpgmonkey said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Square and Enix new IP, by era... excluding MMOs and all DQ and FF spinoffs IP. Bolded IPs that are still remotely active...
NES/Fam/FDS
Hanjuku Hero
Rad Racer
Final Fantasy
Deep Dungeon
Worldrunner
Sword of Kalin
Mystery Quest
Quartz Dragon
Just Breed
Dragon Quest
Jesus
Itadaki Street (kinda)
SNES
Treasure Hunter G
Live a Live
Bahamut Lagoon
Chrono
Mana
Front Mission
Alcahest
SaGa
Star Ocean
Ogre
Brain Lord
Violinist of Hamelin
Soul Blade/Illusion/Terranigma
Actraiser
7th Saga
Wonder Project J
Robotrek
EVO
PSX-N64
Another Mind
Brave Fencer Musashi
Tobal
Einhander
Ehrgeiz
Internal Section
Xenogears
Threads of Fate
Parasite Eve
Vagrant Story
Blade Arts
Valkyrie Profile
Rakugaki Showtime
Mischief Makers
Planet Laika
PS2-GCN-GBA
The Bouncer
Driving Emotion Type-S
Drakengard / Drag-on Dragoon
Kingdom Hearts
Sylpheed
Radiata Stories
Heavy Metal Thunder
Code Age Commanders
Robot Alchemic Drive
The Fear
Super Galdelic Hour
Love Story
360-Wii-DS Didn't bold any because who knows how many will continue being active.
IU
TLR
Yosumin
TWEWY
Nanashi No Game
Sigma Harmonics
Song Summoner
Blood of Bahamut
DS Style line of software
I'm almost certainly missing early Enix stuff. I don't read Japanese so any lost Enix treasures aren't there unless I've heard of them So, uh, basically it seems to me like their breadth in terms of pure numerical quantity has not really decreased. I also think that for every Einhander or Threads of Fate, there are plenty of duds that have been forgotten and not missed.
I don't really see a measurable decline in quality or quantity of new IP. I think there was a brief golden period with the PS1, but really they've consistently banked on their bankable IP and expanded their IP roster slowly but surely.
The only worrying trend is shit like FFXIII, Compilation of FF7, FFT as a franchise, FFCC as a franchise, etc. It strikes me that "Final Fantasy" is almost meaningless at this point. But other than that, I don't see as though they're any worse in terms of new IP now than previously.
NES/Fam/FDS
Hanjuku Hero
Rad Racer
Final Fantasy
Deep Dungeon
Worldrunner
Sword of Kalin
Mystery Quest
Quartz Dragon
Just Breed
Dragon Quest
Jesus
Itadaki Street (kinda)
SNES
Treasure Hunter G
Live a Live
Bahamut Lagoon
Chrono
Mana
Front Mission
Alcahest
SaGa
Star Ocean
Ogre
Brain Lord
Violinist of Hamelin
Soul Blade/Illusion/Terranigma
Actraiser
7th Saga
Wonder Project J
Robotrek
EVO
PSX-N64
Another Mind
Brave Fencer Musashi
Tobal
Einhander
Ehrgeiz
Internal Section
Xenogears
Threads of Fate
Parasite Eve
Vagrant Story
Blade Arts
Valkyrie Profile
Rakugaki Showtime
Mischief Makers
Planet Laika
PS2-GCN-GBA
The Bouncer
Driving Emotion Type-S
Drakengard / Drag-on Dragoon
Kingdom Hearts
Sylpheed
Radiata Stories
Heavy Metal Thunder
Code Age Commanders
Robot Alchemic Drive
The Fear
Super Galdelic Hour
Love Story
360-Wii-DS Didn't bold any because who knows how many will continue being active.
IU
TLR
Yosumin
TWEWY
Nanashi No Game
Sigma Harmonics
Song Summoner
Blood of Bahamut
DS Style line of software
I'm almost certainly missing early Enix stuff. I don't read Japanese so any lost Enix treasures aren't there unless I've heard of them So, uh, basically it seems to me like their breadth in terms of pure numerical quantity has not really decreased. I also think that for every Einhander or Threads of Fate, there are plenty of duds that have been forgotten and not missed.
I don't really see a measurable decline in quality or quantity of new IP. I think there was a brief golden period with the PS1, but really they've consistently banked on their bankable IP and expanded their IP roster slowly but surely.
The only worrying trend is shit like FFXIII, Compilation of FF7, FFT as a franchise, FFCC as a franchise, etc. It strikes me that "Final Fantasy" is almost meaningless at this point. But other than that, I don't see as though they're any worse in terms of new IP now than previously.
Mr.Wuggles
Neo Member
Stumpokapow said:
btw i'm curious... was this actually internally developed by SE? or was it outsourced?
shykyoichi
Member
cw_sasuke said:
I wonder if the quantity of Tales games affects Tales of Hearts' sales. I played it and I thought it was okay.
SilverLunar
Member
bttb said:
Gah! why isn't it the top 10
I want to see if Rythm Heaven and Kirby has made it.Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
SilverLunar said:Gah! why isn't it the top 10
Both.
The rest of the top ten should be some mix of:
- Smash (1.7 million)
- Rhythm Tengoku (1.2 million)
- DQ5 (1.15 million)
- Kirby (900k-1.0 million)
- Wii Sports (~700k?)
- Phantasy Star Portable (620k)
- MGS4 (620k)
- Pokemon Ranger 2 (620k)
I'm not sure if any other 2007 games have sold well enough to beat Wii Sports and those three other titles to slide into the top 10, but I'm reasonably confident that none will break a million so Kirby should be 10th.
Stumpokapow said:
01. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (Capcom) - 2,452,111 / NEW
02. [NDS] Pokemon Platinum (Pokemon) - 2,187,337 / NEW
03. [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo) - 2,149,131 / 2,967,297
04. [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo) - 2,003,315 / NEW
05 Smash (1.7 million)
06 Rhythm Tengoku (1,351k)
07 DQ5 (1,15 million)
08 Animal Crossing 895k
09 Kirby 855k
Number ten will be (probably) for Wii Sports
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Spiegel said:
Totally forgot about AC! So, yes, the order between Wii Sports, AC, and Kirby will depend on the magnitude of the lost week's sales. If dabra's number is correct, Wii Sports should definitely be 10th.
charlequin
Banned
Stumpokapow said:
Right. I think the emphasis on the "lack of new IPs" is a mistake, even though it's people trying to identify the actual problem. What's happened since the PS1 era isn't a lack of new IPs, it's an erosion of brand positioning as a way of telling a game's quality.
On PS1, for example, there were five FF games: three "true" FF games (all of the full AAA quality one would expect from the series), one extremely major spinoff (FFT probably being the biggest-deal FF spinoff in Square's history), and one lightweight (but still well-assembled) dungeon crawler spinoff. There was one Chrono game, which was a true sequel with relatively high production values. Ditto the single Mana game and the two SaGa titles. There was no "dump system" on which titles of ambiguous quality and "importance" were being released.
Compare that to the years since FFX, for example, where we've had four "true" series titles (FFX, X-2, XI, and XII) -- and ten FF-branded spinoffs (FFCC, FF7:BC, FF7:CC, FF7
oC, FFCC:RoF, FFCC:MLaaK, FFTA2, FF12:RW, FFF:CT, and FFF:CD), something like six to eight direct ports, and two full remakes of main series entries. And then note how many of those franchises that were supported during the PS1 era are dead now: Chrono's been sleeping since Cross, Xeno and Vagrant Story never got sequels, Mana and Parasite Eve are getting garbagey "sequels" that no one is interested in, Front Mission seems defunct for now, etc. If someone became a fan of Square in the SNES or PSX era, the only franchises you could still be happily following now are FF or SaGa.I think the Tales problem isn't really that different from the SE problem in its nature, but Tales started out with much less brand equity and has done a worse job keeping the "mothership" isolated (for all the fatigue problems with the FF spinoffs, I don't think anyone has yet lowered their expectations for FFXIII in terms of budget and "AAA-ness.")
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
^^^Yeah exactly. Thanks Char.
charlequin said:Right. I think the emphasis on the "lack of new IPs" is a mistake, even though it's people trying to identify the actual problem. What's happened since the PS1 era isn't a lack of new IPs, it's an erosion of brand positioning as a way of telling a game's quality.
On PS1, for example, there were five FF games: three "true" FF games (all of the full AAA quality one would expect from the series), one extremely major spinoff (FFT probably being the biggest-deal FF spinoff in Square's history), and one lightweight (but still well-assembled) dungeon crawler spinoff. There was one Chrono game, which was a true sequel with relatively high production values. Ditto the single Mana game and the two SaGa titles. There was no "dump system" on which titles of ambiguous quality and "importance" were being released.
Compare that to the years since FFX, for example, where we've had four "true" series titles (FFX, X-2, XI, and XII) -- and ten FF-branded spinoffs (FFCC, FF7:BC, FF7:CC, FF7
I think the Tales problem isn't really that different from the SE problem in its nature, but Tales started out with much less brand equity and has done a worse job keeping the "mothership" isolated (for all the fatigue problems with the FF spinoffs, I don't think anyone has yet lowered their expectations for FFXIII in terms of budget and "AAA-ness.")
Square-Enix tries making new IP's (TWEWY, Sigma Harmonics,...) for the japanese market leader (ds) and the games underperform (TWEWY) or tank badly (Sigma Harmonics, Nanashi no game).
No wonder why they add FF/DQ to everything.
charlequin
Banned
Spiegel said:
Again, though, this isn't really the whole story. Yes, there's a problem with the market now where handheld ascendance and the lack of a PS2-quality market leader has made risky titles harder to succeed at, but as duckroll established, the rate of pure new IPs is not actually much (or any) lower now than it used to be.
The issue is with the quality and branding of their overall line, and I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that this couldn't bear improvement. If instead of four shitty Mana games that no one liked, a team had created a single real Mana ARPG and, I dunno, one experimental Mana spinoff and one super-low-budget new IP test, SE would have probably seen similar overall sales but much less brand degradation. If SE had revived Chrono with a real franchise entry on PS2 and given Parasite Eve the kind of revival people wanted (a sequel to PE1), but done everything else the same, they'd have a notably lesser reputation for ignoring their B-list franchises.
I don't really think SE can fix the problem at this stage, though, because they just don't have the teams to build popular franchises over time anymore. The reason all their output is either huge AAA titles or spinoffs by teams no one's ever heard of (or SaGa games) is that Kitase, Nomura, Toriyama, and Kawazu are the only directors of note left at the company.
Liabe Brave
Member
I heartily agree. Essentially, the dilution of the brand was a choice they made in the wake of the Spirits Within disaster. By putting "Final Fantasy" on everything they made they did ensure marginally better sales for their spinoffs and (what would have been) new IPs; fans weren't savvy yet. It was a strategy with rapidly diminishing returns, though, and to their credit they have begun to reverse it now that merger with Enix has stabilized their finances.charlequin said:
I'm not sure I buy this part, though. Or rather, I don't think building popular franchises is necessary. Right now Square has backed themselves into a "boutique" corner, with expectations of super-duper CG and oodles of superior art in most of their product. If they can successfully bring budgets down while maintaining their reputation for polish, successful projects are possible. I don't think who's directing the games will matter, provided who's producing them doesn't get delusion of grandeur and budget for breakout success.charlequin said:
The results might not be as satisfying to gamers, but I think they'd appreciate a more modulated, less "FF machine" development culture. New design themes and new IPs will help Square's image, even if the big games are all that's truly beloved by consumers.
Mr Killemgood
Member
Stumpokapow said:
Are we only counting published by Square or Enix, or actually developed by Square or Enix? I noticed you included on the Quintet RPGs in there (SoulBlader series, Actraiser, Robotrek).
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Mr Killemgood said:
I was going off published because I don't see the distinction as a useful one. For example, Square Enix has developed 1-2 out of their two dozen DS games, but I don't think anyone cares for the purposes of this discussion that Jupiter made TWEWY or Matrix did the FF3/FF4 port.
Does it really matter which games are called "Final Fantasy"? Each of the "FF13" games is a high quality "new IP" production in a different genre. The gameplay is novel, and both the setting and the characters are new for each of the games. Why does what it says on the box matter?
H_Prestige
Banned
Durante said:
I agree. I have no doubt if FFXII were called something else it would be hugely worshiped. At the very least it wouldn't receive nearly as much hate as it does among the SE fans.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
There are still things that make Final Fantasy Final Fantasy, even with unique settings and gameplay. Sometimes this is useful: It's easier to get up to speed in an FF Tactics game if you've already got an idea of what certain classes, attacks, spells, enemies, or items are like in a mainline game. However, sometimes it's nice to not see those same classes, attacks, spells, enemies, and items again.
There are games that break free of this more than others. Crystal Chronicles sticks out to me for introducing all-new races and (strange as this sounds as a positive) using fruits, vegetables, and types of meat as common items.
There are games that break free of this more than others. Crystal Chronicles sticks out to me for introducing all-new races and (strange as this sounds as a positive) using fruits, vegetables, and types of meat as common items.
Liabe Brave
Member
I've always thought that Crystal Chronicles seemed a really strong candidate for a game whose name and market positioning was changed late in production (like SMB 2 or DMC 2). It came during the phase of increased use of the FF brand.JoshuaJSlone said:
On a more positive note, The Last Remnant has always struck me as an Ivalice Alliance game that got reimagined into its own IP. I think it's a good sign of the more varied branding S-E is pursuing these days (while not neglecting to milk things like Kingdom Hearts). Of course, the change here would've been earlier on in the dev process.
Both these gut feelings are simply that, though; I have no data to suggest I'm right in either case.
charlequin
Banned
Durante said:
Yes. It has a significant impact on the performance of each title (whether positive as a result of fans buying the title due to its name, or negative as people begin to get brand fatigue.) It's a pretty relevant point.
No, none of the FF13 projects are anything like a "new IP," any more than FFX was a "new IP" because it had a new world setting and spawned a same-world sequel. There are a huge group of qualities that are implicit in the FF name which any game that successfully lives up to that name will implement to some reasonably significant degree. There's been no indication whatsoever thus far that Vs will be anything other than an ARPG take on the FF concept, or that Agito won't hew closely to the Crisis Core battle system and and familiar FF worldview territory.
charlequin
Banned
Liabe Brave said:
I'm not quite sure I understand your position. I don't disagree that Square-Enix can still publish successful projects, I just think they have a problem in terms of building a full publishing lineup that isn't victim to these diminishing returns.
oldie-newbie
Member
Many thanks bttb.
Time for PantherLotus to open a new media create thread
Time for PantherLotus to open a new media create thread
oldie-newbie
Member
These numbers concerning the media create sales for the week 12-22 -> 12-28 for which no thread was opened.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
This Famitsu one is fine for both, just as the regular MC thread is usually fine for MC/Famitsu/Dengeki/whatever.oldie-newbie said:
Final Fantasy is just a name and the games share some common elements like chocobos and crystals and the mainline games share an overall style. But there are many spinoff FFs that are new IPs with FF stuck on the title. There is a huge difference between a sequel or spinoff in something like the metal gear series where all the games share the same characters and universe and the FF games. Only the FF7 games are what I would call milking.
If adding chocobos and Final Fantasy to the title makes a new game more likely to be greenlit, I am all for that.
If adding chocobos and Final Fantasy to the title makes a new game more likely to be greenlit, I am all for that.
oldie-newbie
Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
Last year, a MC thread was posted tardily and I hope this will be the case again...
As some members of NeoGAF track the MC hardware numbers, I think it is important to have a MC thread for each week...
A "huge group of qualities"? Really? Because when I look at the various FF titles the only thing I see most (not even all) of them sharing are chocobos, moogles, and some spell/item/summon names. Does it really matter what my level 2 fire spell or basic healing item are called? Am I missing an important group of qualities that is shared by FF titles but not by the larger pool of JRPGs? (except for production values)charlequin said:
Yeah, that is my point. I doubt we'd be seeing such an amazing effort put into FF13Vs if it were just called "Versus", but I see no way at all in which the FF moniker detracts from or limits the game design.dionysus said:
charlequin
Banned
Durante said:
Yes, a huge group of qualities. The FF games have a great deal of continuity in terms of overall style and gameplay, first in the Sakaguchi-helmed games up until V and then in the Kitase/Nomura/Nojima games from 6 onwards -- everything from the very specific catalog of spells, items, abilities, monsters, and travel mechanisms, through the various setting trappings like Dragoons, Red Mages, crystals, and chocobos, on to even emergent traditions like the frequent irrelevance of the final boss to the game's storyline. There's a lot tying the various FF games together besides their budget and their name, and that fact is key to the brand expansion that's occurred with the FF name.
The inevitable end of your line of thought is that every new numbered Final Fantasy title has been a AAA-level, smash-hit new IP, which I hope you can agree is a totally idiotic position to take.
Liabe Brave
Member
My scenario was that Square-Enix should focus on repairing their image with the core gamer that increasingly buys only their tentpole releases. They can reduce the perception of branded cash-ins by providing a slate of more interesting IPs coupled to their traditionally high-quality assets. That might lure at least a few people back into the fold; core gamers are always looking for new experiences. Even without superior directorial talent, one of these new ideas might catch fire (and then they could appropriately adjust the budget and staffing).charlequin said:
I agree that attempting to ride any name brand as hard as possible--whether it's Final Fantasy or some new one--isn't a viable strategy
duckroll said:
That's the way it's usually been done, but if
JoshuaJSlone said:
is preferrable, I can just update the first post of this thread with the Media-Create information and
cvxfreak said:
Edit:
Didn't see that PantherLotus had already started a thread.
Edit2:
Seeing how that thread is now locked, here's the post again. :lol
Media-Create Dec 22-28
01./00. [PS3] White Knight Chronicles (SCEI) - 207,000 / NEW
02./01. [PSP] Dissidia: Final Fantasy (Square Enix) - 176,000 / 666,000
03./04. [WII] Animal Crossing: City Folk (Nintendo) - 144,000 / 876,000
04./03. [NDS] Kirby Super Star Ultra Deluxe (Nintendo) - 141,000 / 920,000
05./06. [NDS] Wagamama Fashion: Girls Mode (Nintendo) - 105,000 / 547,000
06./13. [NDS] Rhythm Tengoku Gold (Nintendo) - 85,000 / 1,445,000
07./00. [NDS] Phantasy Star Zero (SEGA) - 84,000 / NEW
08./08. [NDS] Pokemon Platinum (Pokemon Co.) - 79,000 / 2,231,000
09./17. [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo) - 71,000 / 3,051,000
10./19. [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo) - 70,000 / 2,066,000
11./10. [NDS] Momotarou Dentetsu 20th Anniversary (Hudson)
12./18. [NDS] Prof. Layton and the Last Time Travel (Level 5)
13./20. [NDS] Tongari Boushi to Mahou no 365 Nichi (Little Magician's Magic Adventure) (Konami)
14./14. [NDS] Power Pro Kun Pocket 11 (Konami)
15./07. [PS2] Gundam Musou 2 (Namco Bandai)
16./26. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2 G (BEST) (Capcom)
17./11. [WII] Taiko Drum Master Wii (Namco Bandai)
18./00. [WII] Play on Wii: Pikmin (Nintendo)
19./21. [NDS] Tamagotchi Kira Kira Omisecchi (Namco Bandai)
20./02. [PS3] Gundam Musou 2 (Namco Bandai)
21./12. [WII] Karaoke Joysound Wii (Hudson)
22./28. [WII] Wii Sports (Nintendo)
23./27. [WII] Wii Music (Nintendo)
24./30. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Spec III (SCEI)
25./25. [NDS] Animal Crossing: Wild World (Nintendo)
26./32. [NDS] Taiko Drum Master 2: The Seven Island Adventure (Namco Bandai)
27./29. [PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 12: PES 2009 (Konami)
28./05. [NDS] Tales of Hearts: Anime Movie Edition (Namco Bandai)
29./16. [NDS] Genso Suikoden Tierkreis (Konami)
30./33. [NDS] Inazuma Eleven (Level 5)
NDS - 15
WII - 8
PS3 - 4
PSP - 2
PS2 - 1
Code:
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