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[pulicat]

I don't think these physical charts tell us the whole story of software sales in Japan.

It does tell incomplete story for sure with the rising of digital sales, 2023 for example

Top selling games Famitsu physical sales
1. Zelda TOTK - 1.9m
2. Mario Bros Wonder - 1.5m
3. Pikmin 4 - 1.1m
4. Pokémon Scarlet and Violet - 900k
5. Momotaro - 800k

With digital sales included
1. Zelda TOTK - 3.5m(+1.6m digital)
2. Mario Bros Wonder - 2.5m(+1m digital)
3. Pikmin 4 - 1.7m(+600k digital)
4. Pokémon Scarlet and Violet - 1.3m(+400k digital)
5. Momotaro - 1.15m(+350k digital)

With digital sales included, Playstation games aren't going to enter the chart at all since Nintendo digital sales are massive.

 

[DenchDeckard]

WIll there be hardware sales per SKU or is it now being reported differently all of a sudden?

 

[Mr Moose]

WIll there be hardware sales per SKU or is it now being reported differently all of a sudden?

Hardware is now up, but it is combined. Over the two week period Switch averaged 93.1K per week, PS5 36.7K per week and XBS 1.1K per week.

Oh you mean the splits? Not sure, let me check.
Hardware Sales (December 23, 2024 to January 5, 2025) (followed by lifetime sales)

Switch OLED Model – 106,641 (8,583,772)
Switch Lite – 56,487 (6,391,361)
PlayStation 5 – 55,648 (5,427,355)
Switch – 23,149 (20,003,355)
PlayStation 5 Digital Edition – 9,235 (905,711)
PlayStation 5 Pro – 8,927 (132,620)
Xbox Series X Digital Edition – 1,386 (16,610)
Xbox Series S – 679 (327,995)
Xbox Series X – 209 (314,209)
PlayStation 4 – 72 (7,929,099)

 

[Impotaku]

Strange, wonder why they decided to combine them all of a sudden.

Probably because it was a holiday period and most things shut down over new year in japan.

 

[LordOcidax]

WIll there be hardware sales per SKU or is it now being reported differently all of a sudden?

This has happened before, holy days between weeks.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It does tell incomplete story for sure with the rising of digital sales, 2023 for example

Top selling games Famitsu physical sales
1. Zelda TOTK - 1.9m
2. Mario Bros Wonder - 1.5m
3. Pikmin 4 - 1.1m
4. Pokémon Scarlet and Violet - 900k
5. Momotaro - 800k

With digital sales included
1. Zelda TOTK - 3.5m(+1.6m digital)
2. Mario Bros Wonder - 2.5m(+1m digital)
3. Pikmin 4 - 1.7m(+600k digital)
4. Pokémon Scarlet and Violet - 1.3m(+400k digital)
5. Momotaro - 1.15m(+350k digital)

With digital sales included, Playstation games aren't going to enter the chart at all since Nintendo digital sales are massive.

While they might not top the chart, you've got no idea where these individual games rank on the chart without digital, which can be as much as 70% of game sales and in some cases even more not to mention games that are digital only, that have massive player bases.

Would not be surprised if there are more than 2 million PS4 and PS5 players playing Genshin Impact in Japan.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Oh you mean the splits? Not sure, let me check.
Hardware Sales (December 23, 2024 to January 5, 2025) (followed by lifetime sales)

Switch OLED Model – 106,641 (8,583,772)
Switch Lite – 56,487 (6,391,361)
PlayStation 5 – 55,648 (5,427,355)
Switch – 23,149 (20,003,355)
PlayStation 5 Digital Edition – 9,235 (905,711)
PlayStation 5 Pro – 8,927 (132,620)
Xbox Series X Digital Edition – 1,386 (16,610)
Xbox Series S – 679 (327,995)
Xbox Series X – 209 (314,209)
PlayStation 4 – 72 (7,929,099)

Thanks man, much appreciated

This has happened before, holy days between weeks.

Ah, thanks for the explanation.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's funny how Sony gets no credit for Astro Bot. It's like you can make something like Astro Bot, but it only fuels more criticism because you haven't done MORE stuff like Astro Bot. They should get credit for making a GOTY winning game and whether that can fuel more stuff like this while certainly up in the air, shouldn't be seen as impossible.

Lots of people criticized them for closing Japan Studio, but the byproduct of that was maybe the best game Sony Japan has ever made, a studio that is far more sustainable than Team ICO and probably far more profitable. Seems like people made good decisions to get Astro Bot made.



I think people should recognize there is a massive disconnect between physical sales charts and digital sales.

Looking at this list, you'd think Astro Bot and Dragon Quest 3 would be the top selling digital games... They aren't even close. First off, the top revenue games in Japan are all F2P games: Genshin Impact, Apex Legends, Wuthering Waves, Zenless Zone Zero. It's not until Monster Hunter is a paid game even on the list, but then we're back to F2P with Valorant and eFootball.

But even among non-F2P games, Astro Bot and DQ3 are no where to be found.

I don't think these physical charts tell us the whole story of software sales in Japan.

Welcome back my man!

 

[Alexios]

With digital sales included, Playstation games aren't going to enter the chart at all since Nintendo digital sales are massive.

Pretty much, dunno why some delusional fanboys keep saying the same bs in every Famitsu thread like the market reality % wise would change substantially with digital in the picture when Switch digital sales are also very, very good with often ~50% of sales being digital. The hw sales show enough.

Worth mentioning also that while it's Nintendo first party games topping the charts, that's still a few hundred million of sales total as Switch has accumulated (ww) quite a bit over a billion in software sales now, so that means a ton of money for 3rd parties that are lower in the chart or not even in it.

Now they look to f2p gacha games to save the platform, lol, like that's painting a better picture to have that sort of game alone drive any kind of success. Yeah it's so good if folks bought so many v bucks they make the game chart, you can play that forever just like it's the one thing "selling" on EGS.

 

[DarkstarRising13]

The funny thing is that with all this talk about the doom and gloom of PlayStation 5 game sales that - with few exceptions - being nearly non-existent are barely reaching the top 30 list in Japan's gaming magazine, I would not be surprised if China and Korea end up becoming the bastion for PS5 games made in East Asia. Heck, if the PlayStation consoles can sell over 20 million systems in China, Sony will breathe a sigh of relief knowing that at least China is a backup in case Japanese gamers forgo buying PlayStation consoles.

It makes sense why Sony has been establishing these Hero Projects for all these years since 2016. Looking back, Sony must be glad they did this because time is vindicating their efforts. We're about to get an excellent China Hero Project-made game, Lost Soul Aside, a game that looks like a Final Fantasy Versus XIII love child, released sometime in 2025. There is no way a game like this would be made in Japan, since many developers are increasingly turning towards Nintendo systems, and they either cannot or will not make a game like this owing to the potential low sales in their home country and development cost.

 

[Luminoth-4545]

Strange, wonder why they decided to combine them all of a sudden.

They usually do when there is a Christmas break, then a few days later we get the split for each week.

 

[Hookshot]

PS5 Pro is still ahead of PS4 Pro launch aligned but it's a lead of 2.5 thousandish.

 

[Woopah]

I am sure they have enough other launch titles ready. Pretty sure that we didn’t heard of a new 3D Mario for so long, because it’s a launch title and I can’t see them releasing a new 3D Mario and new Mario Kart at the same time.
They will probably still have Metroid 4 as a launch title (together with a Switch 1 version), some third party titles (we know that some developers wanted a stronger Switch to port their games (perhaps even Elden Ring) and then there are the recent rumors of more Microsoft titles going multiplatform (hell even an Indiana Jones Switch 2 port seems a real possibility) and probably one or two remasters (BOTW or TOTK) and they already have a strong launch lineup.

I agree that 3D Mario and Mario Kart are the biggest 2025 titles. One at launch (alongside a new IP) and one in the holidays.

3rd party wise, the biggest expected 2025 titles for Japan currently look to be Metal Gear Solid Delta, FF7 Remake and DQ 1+2.

The other big possibilities I see for 2025 are Elden Ring, a Yakuza game and a Resident Evil title. Then maybe a wildcard like MH Wilds.

 

[Woopah]

It's funny how Sony gets no credit for Astro Bot. It's like you can make something like Astro Bot, but it only fuels more criticism because you haven't done MORE stuff like Astro Bot. They should get credit for making a GOTY winning game and whether that can fuel more stuff like this while certainly up in the air, shouldn't be seen as impossible.

Lots of people criticized them for closing Japan Studio, but the byproduct of that was maybe the best game Sony Japan has ever made, a studio that is far more sustainable than Team ICO and probably far more profitable. Seems like people made good decisions to get Astro Bot made.



I think people should recognize there is a massive disconnect between physical sales charts and digital sales.

Looking at this list, you'd think Astro Bot and Dragon Quest 3 would be the top selling digital games... They aren't even close. First off, the top revenue games in Japan are all F2P games: Genshin Impact, Apex Legends, Wuthering Waves, Zenless Zone Zero. It's not until Monster Hunter is a paid game even on the list, but then we're back to F2P with Valorant and eFootball.

But even among non-F2P games, Astro Bot and DQ3 are no where to be found.

I don't think these physical charts tell us the whole story of software sales in Japan.

I agree that we don't know anything about microtransaction. But on actual software sales we get a good idea.

In December, DQIII was the best selling physical game on PS5 and the sixth best selling digital game. Right above DQIII in 5th and 4th place in the digital charts are Romancing SaGa and COD.

Now neither of these games charted in the top 30 weekly charts during December, so that caps their physical sales to around 12,914. Let's be generous and say both game were just outside the top 30 each week in December, and they had 70% digital ratios.

Even then, their total sales during the whole of December are under 50,000.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I agree that we don't know anything about microtransaction. But on actual software sales we get a good idea.

In December, DQIII was the best selling physical game on PS5 and the sixth best selling digital game. Right above DQIII in 5th and 4th place in the digital charts are Romancing SaGa and COD.

Now neither of these games charted in the top 30 weekly charts during December, so that caps their physical sales to around 12,914. Let's be generous and say both game were just outside the top 30 each week in December, and they had 70% digital ratios.

Even then, their total sales during the whole of December are under 50,000.

There's a disconnect where the best selling digital games aren't the best selling physical games. No other region really mirrors that.

I think there is a tendency for new games to chart physically, but not necessarily to have long legs digitally. So we're just not at all in the know on how these games are selling and what their sales patterns look like.

Monster Hunter Wilds is the best selling non F2P game on the PSN Store in Japan. It's not at all present on the charts because it hasn't released. It's been high on the charts for months. These digital pre-orders will never be captured in percentages. At best you'd "be generous" and give it 70% of first week sales, but may be even more important is ascertaining the level of sales of these digital games over time.

If the PSN store in Japan is more akin to Steam in the US, you can see significantly older games selling much better at any given point, largely due to sales. Dragon Quest remake is the 48th game on the PSN list in Japan despite being #1 in Physical. What are these games doing digitally on a week to week basis to put them ahead of DQ? I think we assume games have the same pretty linear sales curve, but we don't really know.

I've been following game sale charts since the early 2000s, but without better data, we're nearing a point where they're becoming useless.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The point is Astrobot is selling something because it's targeting japanese console gamers. It's been, what, decades since Sony even tried to do that. For the money it cost, peanuts, AstroBot is a tremendous success in the world and a moderate success in Japan. When was the last time Sony had a game charting during the same period of year ?

It’s a flop in Japan

Thankfully gamers in the west have taste and it’s sold millions.

60k in Japan is a joke. I’m not expecting Mario numbers but it should be at least a few hundred thousand

 

[Woopah]

There's a disconnect where the best selling digital games aren't the best selling physical games. No other region really mirrors that.

I think there is a tendency for new games to chart physically, but not necessarily to have long legs digitally. So we're just not at all in the know on how these games are selling and what their sales patterns look like.

Monster Hunter Wilds is the best selling non F2P game on the PSN Store in Japan. It's not at all present on the charts because it hasn't released. It's been high on the charts for months. These digital pre-orders will never be captured in percentages. At best you'd "be generous" and give it 70% of first week sales, but may be even more important is ascertaining the level of sales of these digital games over time.

If the PSN store in Japan is more akin to Steam in the US, you can see significantly older games selling much better at any given point, largely due to sales. Dragon Quest remake is the 48th game on the PSN list in Japan despite being #1 in Physical. What are these games doing digitally on a week to week basis to put them ahead of DQ? I think we assume games have the same pretty linear sales curve, but we don't really know.

I've been following game sale charts since the early 2000s, but without better data, we're nearing a point where they're becoming useless.

In December at least DQ was 6th on the digital software charts, not 48th. These charts don't include pre-orders, but physical charts don't include pre-orders either so it doesn't matter.

I just don't see a way for DQIII or any of the games below it to have high digital unit sales in December, when they all sold fewer digital units than a Romancing SaGa remake with fewer than 13,000 physical sales.

Do you see a way the sales could be high?

So comparing the physical and digital charts does give us a good idea. It's far from useless.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

In December at least DQ was 6th on the digital software charts, not 48th. These charts don't include pre-orders, but physical charts don't include pre-orders either so it doesn't matter.

I just don't see a way for DQIII or any of the games below it to have high digital unit sales in December, when they all sold fewer digital units than a Romancing SaGa remake with fewer than 13,000 physical sales.

Do you see a way the sales could be high?

So comparing the physical and digital charts does give us a good idea. It's far from useless.

I'm pretty sure physical charts do include pre-orders... And you're still not seeing the point, because you're still assuming all these games have a linear curve, when I'm telling you they don't in Japan as evidenced by older games bouncing up much higher on the charts than some newer games that are still charting physically.

It was 48th today. That's really far down on the list for a game that just came out and still charts physically. If you can't see the disconnect there, there's not much I can do to get you there.

I'm not saying that the sales of Dragon Quest are particularly high, rather that we have no idea given how poorly it does digitally compared to other games. Can you explain why it's 48th on the list but first physically?

 

[Woopah]

I'm pretty sure physical charts do include pre-orders...

My point was that pre orders don't appear on charts before launch. Lots of people will have pre-ordered MH Wilds last month, but you aren't going to see that on any official chart (Famitsu, Gfk etc.) because they don't include pre-orders.

Sane with hardware. You won't see Famitsu start including Switch 2 sales when it's open for pre-orders, they'll do it when the product actually launches.

And you're still not seeing the point, because you're still assuming all these games have a linear curve, when I'm telling you they don't in Japan as evidenced by older games bouncing up much higher on the charts than some newer games that are still charting physically.

I completely agree with you that games have non-linear sales curves, with games bouncing up the digital charts due to discounts or other events. Plenty of evidence for that across PlayStation and Switch.

But low non-linear unit sales are still low unit sales. If a game can get into the top 10 digital PS5 chart with <20,000 digital sales across all of December, then sales are low. Right?

It was 48th today. That's really far down on the list for a game that just came out and still charts physically. If you can't see the disconnect there, there's not much I can do to get you there.

I'm not saying that the sales of Dragon Quest are particularly high, rather that we have no idea given how poorly it does digitally compared to other games. Can you explain why it's 48th on the list but first physically?

Do you have a link to the chart you are looking at? My guess is that you are not looking at a chart based on how many copies a game sold, but instead something that also includes F2P games, MTX, DLC and pre-orders. That would explain the disconnect.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

My point was that pre orders don't appear on charts before launch. Lots of people will have pre-ordered MH Wilds last month, but you aren't going to see that on any official chart (Famitsu, Gfk etc.) because they don't include pre-orders.

Sane with hardware. You won't see Famitsu start including Switch 2 sales when it's open for pre-orders, they'll do it when the product actually launches.

Right, but you'll never see how many games were pre-ordered digitally at all. It's complete ether. Physical will at least get it week 1.

That you can't tell me how many digital units of MHW sell week 0 or week 1 or week 16 or week 52 should give people more pause than it is, especially when these rankings don't match up with physical sales charts.

I completely agree with you that games have non-linear sales curves, with games bouncing up the digital charts due to discounts or other events. Plenty of evidence for that across PlayStation and Switch.

But low non-linear unit sales are still low unit sales. If a game can get into the top 10 digital PS5 chart with <20,000 digital sales across all of December, then sales are low. Right?

How low are they? How many units are selling weekly? How do you know it's under 20K, and how many units sold in November and October and so on.

Let's say a game sells a flat 15K units per week for an entire year. That's 780k units... that's significant. We have no idea where the baseline for these game sales are and how much that baseline moves.

Do you have a link to the chart you are looking at? My guess is that you are not looking at a chart based on how many copies a game sold, but instead something that also includes F2P games, MTX, DLC and pre-orders. That would explain the disconnect.

It's the PS Store in Japan... and yes, it includes MTX and DLC, that's part of my point. I specifically refer to F2P games, how else would they chart? But that these games are all generating more revenue than DQ3 and Astro Bot is telling in terms of the behavior of play on PlayStation in Japan, but not all of these games are F2P or filled with MTX either.

 

[Woopah]

Right, but you'll never see how many games were pre-ordered digitally at all. It's complete ether. Physical will at least get it week 1.

That you can't tell me how many digital units of MHW sell week 0 or week 1 or week 16 or week 52 should give people more pause than it is, especially when these rankings don't match up with physical sales charts.

I agree that we don't know the digital sales, but we can be reasonable with our use of digital ratios. New console games don't tend to sell 90% of their copies digitally for example.

How low are they? How many units are selling weekly? How do you know it's under 20K, and how many units sold in November and October and so on.

Let's say a game sells a flat 15K units per week for an entire year. That's 780k units... that's significant. We have no idea where the baseline for these game sales are and how much that baseline moves.

Well the 5th best selling PS5 digital game in December was SaGa 2, a game which sold less than 13,000 physical copies that month and never charted in the top 30.

Even if we are very generous and say SaGa was the 31st best selling physical game every week in December, that still leaves it needing a 82%+ digital ratio to reach 15k a week. Which isn't going to happen.

So if the 5th placed game is selling low numbers, all the games below that sold low numbers too.

It's the PS Store in Japan... and yes, it includes MTX and DLC, that's part of my point. I specifically refer to F2P games, how else would they chart? But that these games are all generating more revenue than DQ3 and Astro Bot is telling in terms of the behavior of play on PlayStation in Japan, but not all of these games are F2P or filled with MTX either.

That explains the disconnect perfectly then. F2P, MTX and DLC aren't included in software unit charts since they aren't software unit sales.

That's why the official Playstation blog puts F2P in a separately chart. Likewise when Sony reports their software unit sales for last quarter, they aren't going to include the number of people who got a FIFA Ultimate Team pack or who downloaded Genshin Impact.

Now there is probably a link between the two, in that money going to microtransactions is one of the causes of the low software sales.