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Fargo - Season 2 - a new true crime chapter takes us to 1979 Sioux Falls - Mon on FX

F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
For anyone who is a nerd, there's an error in the book sequence that they use to start the episode with. Maybe they caught it but decided it was too expensive to fix and that no one would care. lol
 
F

Fury451

Banned
firehawk12 said:
People want this to be True Detective or something. lol
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True Detective could've benefitted from the supernatural or going Lovecraft.

This episode was absolutely crazy, I can't believe they just go to such bizarre places with the amount of confidence it has.

I thought the first season was pretty great, but this one just blows it out of the water. I have no idea how they're going to follow it up, but unless the show face plants next week it's got to be one of the most entertaining things I've seen on television.
 
S

shacklesmcgee

Member
Einchy said:
I guess it's a bit of a spoiler but it's nothing interesting.

He survives and goes to trial but ends up winning since his lawyers argued that his family made him do everything.

Lou tells someone that in season 1 but I couldn't say to whom or around when in the season it happens. I doubt they actually show that in season 2, though.
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Gozer the Gozerian said:
How sure are you of this? I have no recollection of that and can't find anything online about it
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yeah, im gonna need to see some receipts for this

firehawk12 said:
For anyone who is a nerd, there's an error in the book sequence that they use to start the episode with. Maybe they caught it but decided it was too expensive to fix and that no one would care. lol
Click to expand...

what's the error?
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
shacklesmcgee said:
what's the error?
Click to expand...
Oh just with the text repeating. I'm actually surprised that it was real text and not total nonsense, but there's two pages where the text is exactly the same.

Fury451 said:
True Detective could've benefitted from the supernatural or going Lovecraft.
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I don't mind that True Dick ended up being more grounded in the end and that cultish stuff was just that. But I don't need Fargo to be super serious or "realistic" either.
 
S

Summer Haze

Banned
Goddamn, that was a great episode. This show is intense.

Oh, and WTF at the UFO?! I'd love to hear some interpretations/explanations of that scene because I'm confused as hell.

Edit: Never mind, found it a few pages back.
 
F

Fury451

Banned
Lukas Japonicus said:
Goddamn, that was a great episode. This show is intense.

Oh, and WTF at the UFO?! I'd love to hear some interpretations of that scene because I'm confused as hell.
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As of right now, I don't think there are any interpretations. It was actually presented in a completely literal way. Multiple characters see it, multiple characters seem to acknowledge they were all seeing what it actually was. That indicates that it was a literal thing that was there, rather than a hallucination or anything similar.

It's also referencing a historical sighting that took place at that time in that general area.

Incidentally though,
two Gearhardt men were killed while being distracted by a UFO.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Sane_Man said:
Hooooly shit. I have never seen anything as insane as that on television! Never in my life!

Funnily enough I was talking about the UFO stuff with a friend a few episodes in when there'd been a few hints and we were joking that the show would end with a UFO coming down in the midst of a shoot out! I can't believe it actually happened!! I can't wait til he sees it. So so good.

I wonder if the same people who didn't like the UFO (BREAKING BAD SPOILERS AHEAD)
also didn't like the plane crash in Breaking Bad. Both were a kind of divine intervention and obviously not grounded in realism, but worked as sublime pieces of gutsy storytelling. I can totally see why both of these events didn't work for some people, but for me they were two astounding moments of television.
Unforgettable. Throw every Emmy at the show.
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Umm, the Breaking Bad thing involved some real coincidence, but it was very much in keeping with themes of the show, of far-reaching consequences to Walt's actions. It wasn't some random deus ex machina or surreal moment for the sake of it.

I'm still waiting for someone to present a sensible explanation of the UFO's thematic relevance to the story or any of the characters here. Noah Hawley's superficial claim that the late 70s featured various obsessions with paranoia, conspiracies and alien stuff doesn't jive with the rest of this season. Those elements don't otherwise tie into the story or character arcs. None of those tidbits in previous episodes have added up to anything. Using Lifespring? Totally relevant to Peggy's entire character. Touching on Reagan's rise and weaving that into Lou and others' anxieties? Good worldbuilding and character development. UFOs popping up because Hawley saw the Coens do something with a UFO once and like, they were kinda present in real people's minds in '79...? I'm not seeing it.
 
S

Sane_Man

Member
Fury451 said:
As of right now, I don't think there are any interpretations. It was actually presented in a completely literal way. Multiple characters see it, multiple characters seem to acknowledge they were all seeing what it actually was. That indicates that it was a literal thing that was there, rather than a hallucination or anything similar.
Click to expand...

Unless you get super meta and believe the episode to be the subjective account of the events as told through the True Stories narrative Martin Freeman was presenting, all within the real Fargo universe.

I took it literally though.
 
F

Fury451

Banned
Sane_Man said:
Unless you get super meta and believe the episode to be the subjective account of the events as told through the True Stories narrative Martin Freeman was presenting, all within the real Fargo universe.

I took it literally though.
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I didn't think of that. That in itself was quite a bizarre narrative change to take the penultimate episode in. I guess that wouldn't surprise me at this point, the entire season has been toying with expectations. Characters getting killed off screen, characters with multi minute lead up getting killed in seconds, seemingly mysterious things being presented as quite factual, it's definitely a different show than anything on television.

Maybe somebody's kid drew a picture of a
flying saucer
in the storybook lol
 
S

Sane_Man

Member
Dan said:
Umm, the Breaking Bad thing involved some real coincidence, but it was very much in keeping with themes of the show, of far-reaching consequences to Walt's actions. It wasn't some random deus ex machina or surreal moment for the sake of it.

I'm still waiting for someone to present a sensible explanation of the UFO's thematic relevance to the story or any of the characters here. Noah Hawley's superficial claim that the late 70s featured various obsessions with paranoia, conspiracies and alien stuff doesn't jive with the rest of this season. Those elements don't otherwise tie into the story or character arcs. None of those tidbits in previous episodes have added up to anything. Using Lifespring? Totally relevant to Peggy's entire character. Touching on Reagan's rise and weaving that into Lou and others' anxieties? Good worldbuilding and character development. UFOs popping up because Hawley saw the Coens do something with a UFO once and like, they were kinda present in real people's minds in '79...? I'm not seeing it.
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BREAKING BAD:
I agree it was different extremes, but the Breaking Bad plot was definitely larger than life and took a huge amount of suspension of disbelief. It was almost metaphoric - a culmination of all Walter's evil deeds, which before then he had justified in his own mind.

If we take the UFO literally then why do we need to justify it? In the Fargo universe this really happened. UFO's exist (which has been hinted at constantly) and happened to swoop down right at that moment. It was ballsy because a TV series with this level of realism has never had a pivotal scene interrupted by a flying saucer but it didn't just come out of nowhere. I do definitely see why it doesn't work for some, but you can't say the show didn't build up to it.
 
E

El Daniel

Member
I didn't like the UFO bit. Good episode beyond that. Not as good as last week's. The narration added nothing for me and felt misplaced.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Sane_Man said:
Unless you get super meta and believe the episode to be the subjective account of the events as told through the True Stories narrative Martin Freeman was presenting, all within the real Fargo universe.

I took it literally though.
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Sane_Man said:
If we take the UFO literally then why do we need to justify it? In the Fargo universe this really happened.
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I will say that I find nothing interesting or fascinating about all these meta levels of writing. It's ultimately a dressed up way of Noah Hawley saying "it happened because I wrote it, and I wrote it because I thought it was cool". To which I say "okay then".

UFO's exist (which has been hinted at constantly) and happened to swoop down right at that moment. It was ballsy because a TV series with this level of realism has never had a pivotal scene interrupted by a flying saucer but it didn't just come out of nowhere. I do definitely see why it doesn't work for some, but you can't say the show didn't build up to it.
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Ballsy for the sake of ballsy doesn't do it for me.

The so-called build up isn't meaningful however. Just because UFOs have been hinted at or mentioned in several episodes doesn't mean it adds up to anything. It still has no connection to the stories and character arcs being explored this season. All those references just mean the UFO is both a deus ex machina and Chekhov's gun. But it doesn't say anything about anything.

BannedEpisode said:
Loved it.


The devil was in season 1, why not aliens in season 2?
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Season one also spent a great deal of time talking about and dealing with good and evil. The entire season starts with Lester doing a very bad thing and making a deal with the figurative/literal devil. It's not some irrelevant element.

Has season two actually dealt with any of the themes associated with UFOs? Do UFOs reflect anything about any of the characters or their plights?

Edit:
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
There was a divine rain of fish that killed two people last season. And that one came out of nowhere.
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Which whimsically tied into the Biblical stuff and what was going on with Oliver Platt's character.

I have zero problem with magical realism. I have a problem when things are thrown in for the sake of being cool and different without being relevant to a story's themes.
 
B

BannedEpisode

Member
Dan said:
I will say that I find nothing interesting or fascinating about all these meta levels of writing. It's ultimately a dressed up way of Noah Hawley saying "it happened because I wrote it, and I wrote it because I thought it was cool". To which I say "okay then".


Ballsy for the sake of ballsy doesn't do it for me.

The so-called build up isn't meaningful however. Just because UFOs have been hinted at or mentioned in several episodes doesn't mean it adds up to anything. It still has no connection to the stories and character arcs being explored this season. All those references just mean the UFO is both a deus ex machina and Chekhov's gun. But it doesn't say anything about anything.


Season one also spent a great deal of time talking about and dealing with good and evil. The entire season starts with Lester doing a very bad thing and making a deal with the figurative/literal devil. It's not some irrelevant element.

Has season two actually dealt with any of the themes associated with UFOs? Do UFOs reflect anything about any of the characters or their plights?
Click to expand...

I would say that this season has dealt a lot with Paranoia and the general conspiracy laden atmosphere of the times.

You could also argue that the UFO(s) are parallel to the Fargo constant of a wildcard third party being pulled into chaotic events and ultimately influencing them.
 
K

Kid Kamikaze10

Member
You can argue that many of the characters, from Hank to Hanzee, are trying to find meaning in their lives and in the environment despite what they've gone through.

The UFO represents the chaos they just can't grasp.
 
R

rtcn63

Member
True Detective S2
tried to be too serious, adhering to stereotypical characters (who were everything you expected to be from the first scene they're introduced, and nothing more) and a rushed plot with no real payoff.

Fargo S2 continues to focus on the Cohen sense of humor, off-beat characters, and cartoonish-ness (Billy Bob's character from S1 was pretty much Ghostface) which just give its more leeway in storytelling. The plot of a turf-war isn't exactly original, but it's told in a way where the number one priority is actually entertaining the audience. At worst, it's a better S2 than TD S2.
 
H

HotHamWater

Member
Loved the episode, glad they leaned into the UFO stuff. The narration was much more egregious for me, seemed completely out of place and the nature of it (only using clips we've already seen) really made it seem like something a network exec demanded.

The music this season has been consistently fantastic. Is there a link to the Run Through The Jungle cover?
 
E

ezekial45

Banned
Oh shit, I didn't realize that Bear Gerhardt was The Organic Mechanic from Mad Max: Fury Road

organic_mechanic.jpg
 
B

Bandit1

Member
ezekial45 said:
In case anyone was interested, that really badass Drumline from the last two episodes -- which may be Lou's Theme -- is on YT. It was actually performed by the USC Marching Band.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btSscknViDI&feature=youtu.be
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Thanks for posting this! That thing rocks. Plays when Hank and Lou bust in the cabin, and when Lou turns around to cross the state line, would be great if it was considered Lou's Theme.

Also that cover of Run Through the Jungle was fantastic it last night's credits.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
BannedEpisode said:
I would say that this season has dealt a lot with Paranoia and the general conspiracy laden atmosphere of the times.
Click to expand...
With whom? None of the lead characters are exactly paranoid about anything. There's Karl and... Karl. Who is a secondary character and has nothing to do with any of the UFO stuff. The biggest conspiracy of the season is the simple arrangement of Simone working with Mike Milligan.

Kid Kamikaze10 said:
You can argue that many of the characters, from Hank to Hanzee, are trying to find meaning in their lives and in the environment despite what they've gone through.

The UFO represents the chaos they just can't grasp.
Click to expand...
That might be the closest thing I could accept if the show added support to it, except that so far we've not actually seen anyone try to grapple with any of these encounters as a stand-in for their real life crises and anxieties. Ryan died almost immediately. Hank's apparent obsession has gone entirely uncommented upon and wouldn't exist if not for getting a glimpse of his house, otherwise it's not present in his character at all. Hanzee barely reacted to it.

StopMakingSense said:
The UFO is us.
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BannedEpisode said:
nailed it

They should have the UFO look in a mirror and the reflection will be the typical american family watching Fargo.
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Blargh.
 
S

Salty Catfish

Member
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
You can argue that many of the characters, from Hank to Hanzee, are trying to find meaning in their lives and in the environment despite what they've gone through.

The UFO represents the chaos they just can't grasp.
Click to expand...

In the ~24 hours since the episode, I've come around somewhat on the UFO thing and this is pretty close to how I've been able to wrap my mind around it. The word Shakespearean seems to get slapped onto anything that's violently dramatic, but it's the best descriptor I can think of for how this season has played out. From the premiere through last night there's been a strong sense of dramatic irony, characters getting swept up in an ever-growing shitstorm of misunderstandings, lies, and chaotic absurdity. The UFO was simply that given physical form.
 
K

~Kinggi~

Banned
That UFO was some fucking balls ill give it that. A show that got everything goin for it and stick a UFO in there. Didnt even need it.
 
F

flaxknuckles

Member
Dang, that wasn't subtle at all. I think that may have jumped the shark for me. Will the characters even reference it next episode of will it be forgotten? I feel like both would be dumb choices so they never should have done that.

EDIT: And it wasn't even the fact that it just showed up but how it stopped the fight. If it was just shown and maybe distracted a character for a sec then it would have been a nice Easter egg.
 
Dice//

Dice//

Banned
Loved the UFO. Why explain it? I like that it was hinted to quite a lot, but some things just can't be explained. Who knows how Lou managed to one-up the bear when all seemed lost --- hell, maybe a UFO did it somehow.

Loved Martin Freeman narrarating. That was damn meta.
 
G

goldlion054

Member
So, my gf and i just finished the first season and we couldn't be more complimentary of the work they've done with the show. I'm personally very excited to start season 2. but we have a lingering question about season one that someone may be able to answer.

After Malvo has the hit attempt on him and escapes, he goes to the office of the guy who contracts him out. Malvo gives him the option of leaving in an ambulance or a hearse. It was never made clear what happened. We assumed it was an ambulance because we saw Malvo working later But he is capable of doing insane things, and finding new clients isn't outside his realm of possibilities.

It's just a minor thing, really. But it has just stuck with me since it happened. Any insight would be lovely.
 
G

-griffy-

Banned
I like someone's read yesterday, that the UFO represents the bigger picture that many of the characters have been ignoring while focusing on the petty stuff going on between the gang war. Betsy is dying of cancer, Vietnam vets are getting fucked up, Reagan is getting ready to screw the country yet people are buying his bullshit, Ed and Peggy are so self absorbed in their own shit they don't realize their marriage is broken, fucking UFO's ARE FLYING AROUND. Yet all anyone cares about is this senseless turf war and the violence it's causing. No one is paying attention to the actual problems around them. Even in the moment it appears, people can only gape at it for a moment before resuming their shit, Peggy not even being phased.

And I'll reiterate that the UFO also represents that violence and death, as it only appears around it. It's a gawker at human stupidity, not interfering, but watching as the humans below fuck up. So yes, it also represents us as the audience in that way.
 
K

KorrZ

Member
I don't hate the UFO but I feel conflicted on it. It just feels so...blunt? They really make sure to linger on it and that you see it, which really took me out of the episode and the intensity of everything else that was happening at that moment.

At the same time, you have Peggy's line which was just perfect so I don't know. It was definitely an interesting move.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
KorrZ said:
I don't hate the UFO but I feel conflicted on it. It just feels so...blunt? They really make sure to linger on it and that you see it, which really took me out of the episode and the intensity of everything else that was happening at that moment.

At the same time, you have Peggy's line which was just perfect so I don't know. It was definitely an interesting move.
Click to expand...

Even if it didn't work (and it dod for me for whatever reason) it was worth it just for that Peggy line.
 
F

Fury451

Banned
Let's give it the final episode to see if the context makes the alien/UFO stuff work before dismissing it as trash I say.

I get why it's polarizing, but it may have a pretty interesting pay off. Or maybe not, in which case it goes down as being one of the most divisive and bizarrely memorable moments on television.
 
B

BannedEpisode

Member
Dan said:
With whom? None of the lead characters are exactly paranoid about anything. There's Karl and... Karl. Who is a secondary character and has nothing to do with any of the UFO stuff. The biggest conspiracy of the season is the simple arrangement of Simone working with Mike Milligan.


That might be the closest thing I could accept if the show added support to it, except that so far we've not actually seen anyone try to grapple with any of these encounters as a stand-in for their real life crises and anxieties. Ryan died almost immediately. Hank's apparent obsession has gone entirely uncommented upon and wouldn't exist if not for getting a glimpse of his house, otherwise it's not present in his character at all. Hanzee barely reacted to it.



Blargh.
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Just for absolute clarity, my second comment was facetious. A joke.

To be honest, I don't really feel a need to rationalize the UFO/Aliens. It's weird and they are leaning into it. I like that.
 
H

Helmholtz

Member
One of my least favorite episodes this season. The narration didn't work for me and neither did the UFO. The UFO thing in episode 1 was bad enough, this was just too much.
Other than that it was an okay episode I guess. I hope it ends strong next week, because otherwise this has been a fantastic season.
 
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