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Fargo - Thornton & Freeman in a new tale from the Coen Brothers' world - Tues on FX

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I actually watched the movie for the first time right before starting the series.

Loved it. Charmed the hell out of me. Started the series right after the movie. I was comparing the movie to the pilot most of the episode and wasnt amused by the series until halfway through. Episode 2 is where I really fell in love with the show since I was entirwly out of comparisob mode.

Both are excellent and very different. I dont see how people can say the show nailed the movies atmosphere. The movie is MUCH quirkier than the show. Not to mention that Marge is probably the best cop ever in terms of police work. It os almost unnatural how keen her instincts are. Molly is much more human in her abilities.

Thematically there are different things going on as well.

That the show and movie are different is not a bad thing though. Its very good. The show was at its best when it had its own voice.
 
I saw Malvo as the first glove---since she lost him a number of times---and Lester as the second glove. So she lets Lester---the other glove---go home, knowing that the two gloves will come together. Since she can't have the gloves no matter how hard she tries she'll let the FBI have them. The train is her new family. Can't get off the train just for a glove.

Ok this is now definitely my favorite interpretation of that scene now
 

Grinchy

Banned
I saw Malvo as the first glove---since she lost him a number of times---and Lester as the second glove. So she lets Lester---the other glove---go home, knowing that the two gloves will come together. Since she can't have the gloves no matter how hard she tries she'll let the FBI have them. The train is her new family. Can't get off the train just for a glove.

Yeah that's how I see it and I'm pretty sure that's what it's about. The first glove was unintentionally lost. The second glove was purposely forfeited for the greater good. In the end, Molly is the one who caused someone else to nab a pair of gloves, whether it's universally known or not doesn't matter to her.
 
You are like a butt pimple in this thread

tongue.gif


i actually enjoyed the last episode though
 
Watched the first episode yesterday and was quite disappointed. Does it get better?
The first episode is a good representation of the series as a whole, so I'm not sure watching more is going to change your opinion. I suppose it depends if you were mildly disappointed (in that case, watch more) or if you just didn't like it (in which case you should probably just move on.)
 
D

Deleted member 325805

Unconfirmed Member
The first episode is a good representation of the series as a whole, so I'm not sure watching more is going to change your opinion. I suppose it depends if you were mildly disappointed (in that case, watch more) or if you just didn't like it (in which case you should probably just move on.)

I wasn't a massive fan of the first couple of episodes, but I ended up absolutely loving the series as a whole.
 
I wasn't a massive fan of the first couple of episodes, but I ended up absolutely loving the series as a whole.

I liked the first few, but I thought the show seemed somewhat unnecessary. By the end I was totally in love with it.

I had pretty much the exact opposite reaction to True Detective.
 
D

Deleted member 325805

Unconfirmed Member
I liked the first few, but I thought the show seemed somewhat unnecessary. By the end I was totally in love with it.

I had pretty much the exact opposite reaction to True Detective.

I watched like 45 minutes of True Detective and just couldn't get on with it so turned it off. People freaking out about how it's so amazing always confuses me, maybe I should give it another try one day.
 
I don't know why people are comparing this show to True Detective. I mean, they're both about police detectives trying to solve murders, but Fargo is a comedy, or at least it's half a comedy. With it's glacially slow pace and cartoonish characters, Fargo is more like Twin Peaks, or a Tim Burton movie than True Detective.
 
I don't know why people are comparing this show to True Detective. I mean, they're both about police detectives trying to solve murders, but Fargo is a comedy, or at least it's half a comedy. With it's glacially slow pace and cartoonish characters, Fargo is more like Twin Peaks, or a Tim Burton movie than True Detective.

I love both shows, but I think True Detective is much slower paced than Fargo, at least for like the first half of the season.
 

Divius

Member
The first episode is a good representation of the series as a whole, so I'm not sure watching more is going to change your opinion. I suppose it depends if you were mildly disappointed (in that case, watch more) or if you just didn't like it (in which case you should probably just move on.)
Thanks cornbro, think I'll try one or two more episodes then.

It only gets worse.
I thought it got way better after the first episode.
neogaf.gif
 

Stoze

Member
I don't know why people are comparing this show to True Detective. I mean, they're both about police detectives trying to solve murders, but Fargo is a comedy, or at least it's half a comedy. With it's glacially slow pace and cartoonish characters, Fargo is more like Twin Peaks, or a Tim Burton movie than True Detective.

I think it's just because they're both brand new anthology series, and they're both really good. I don't think people are comparing them on a basis of their similarities in tone and style, because yeah, they're very different.

I love both shows. Kinda didn't like how parts the finale of Fargo played out, but it was still a solid ending.
 

Saty

Member
Depends what you are looking for. Are you fine with cartoony characters with little depth? With moronic and senseless developments, actions and behaviors? With incompetence and absurdity moving the plot? With pseudo-sophistication in the form of riddles and parables that have little bearing on what's going on? And maybe most importantly, are you fine with whatever meaning or purpose that the writers meant by with that approach to be eroded and fade away thanks to over-repetition, beating your head with it time and time again?

And about it being a 'comedy', just like most of the other things with Fargo, it stopped being funny early on after them thinking the same joke still works the 3rd\4th\5th\6th time.
 
Depends what you are looking for. Are you fine with cartoony characters with little depth? With moronic and senseless developments, actions and behaviors? With incompetence and absurdity moving the plot? With pseudo-sophistication in the form of riddles and parables that have little bearing on what's going on? And maybe most importantly, are you fine with whatever meaning or purpose that the writers meant by with that approach to be eroded and fade away thanks to over-repetition, beating your head with it time and time again?

And about it being a 'comedy', just like most of the other things with Fargo, it stopped being funny early on after them thinking the same joke still works the 3rd\4th\5th\6th time.
The funniest part of the whole show is in the 9th episode.
 
Depends what you are looking for. Are you fine with cartoony characters with little depth? With moronic and senseless developments, actions and behaviors? With incompetence and absurdity moving the plot? With pseudo-sophistication in the form of riddles and parables that have little bearing on what's going on? And maybe most importantly, are you fine with whatever meaning or purpose that the writers meant by with that approach to be eroded and fade away thanks to over-repetition, beating your head with it time and time again?

And about it being a 'comedy', just like most of the other things with Fargo, it stopped being funny early on after them thinking the same joke still works the 3rd\4th\5th\6th time.

So 4 1/2 out of 5 stars?
 

Draconian

Member
Just finished the finale. I'm a bit peeved. I should've known after 10 episodes of building up Malvo into an unstoppable force, they wouldn't be able to give his character a proper ending. If he was going to die, it should've been at the hands of either Molly or Lester. Instead we get a scene where stupid, incompetent Gus gee gollys himself into his den which he randomly stumbles upon. Oh yeah, he just happens to stop his car, turn his head to the left and OH LOOK IT'S MALVO'S CAR. Yeah, and he'd totally go in there just to wait until Malvo came back too. Sure. It just reeks of a "welp, we need to give Gus some redemption after we wrote him as a complete screw up for the first 9 episodes" sequence.

I don't want to make it sound like I despised the finale. It had some good scenes like Lester being the scumbag that he is and provided closure for everybody, but I don't like when you essentially have to resort to serendipity to take out one of your characters because you've made them almost invincible over the course of the show.

EDIT: Also, what was the point of keeping the deaf hitman alive? Did he ever make another appearance?
 
Depends what you are looking for. Are you fine with cartoony characters with little depth? With moronic and senseless developments, actions and behaviors? With incompetence and absurdity moving the plot? With pseudo-sophistication in the form of riddles and parables that have little bearing on what's going on? And maybe most importantly, are you fine with whatever meaning or purpose that the writers meant by with that approach to be eroded and fade away thanks to over-repetition, beating your head with it time and time again?

And about it being a 'comedy', just like most of the other things with Fargo, it stopped being funny early on after them thinking the same joke still works the 3rd4th5th6th time.

Just finished the finale. I'm a bit peeved. I should've known after 10 episodes of building up Malvo into an unstoppable force, they wouldn't be able to give his character a proper ending. If he was going to die, it should've been at the hands of either Molly or Lester. Instead we get a scene where stupid, incompetent Gus gee gollys himself into his den which he randomly stumbles upon. Oh yeah, he just happens to stop his car, turn his head to the left and OH LOOK IT'S MALVO'S CAR. Yeah, and he'd totally go in there just to wait until Malvo came back too. Sure. It just reeks of a "welp, we need to give Gus some redemption after we wrote him as a complete screw up for the first 9 episodes" sequence.

I don't want to make it sound like I despised the finale. It had some good scenes like Lester being the scumbag that he is and provided closure for everybody, but I don't like when you essentially have to resort to serendipity to take out one of your characters because you've made them almost invincible over the course of the show.

EDIT: Also, what was the point of keeping the deaf hitman alive? Did he ever make another appearance?

Do you guys watch, and enjoy, Coen brothers movies?
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
The series' biggest problem is that the Malvo of the first nine episodes is very different to the Malvo of the finale. He's a basically super human, infallible killing machine and then... he just isn't. He gets wounded by and flees from Lester. Lester!

Dramatically speaking, I like that Gus defeats him and in particular I like the manner in which he is killed. But it is incongruous with how the character is presented prior to this episode. He has an almost supernatural quality and yet is so easily defeated. It just doesn't feel right. Again, I'd have to stress that I thought the finale (and everything prior to that) was excellent. Just incongruous.

As an aside, I really liked Kay and Peele/Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, but it felt a bit on the nose.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
The series' biggest problem is that the Malvo of the first nine episodes is very different to the Malvo of the finale. He's a basically super human, infallible killing machine and then... he just isn't. He gets wounded by and flees from Lester. Lester!

Dramatically speaking, I like that Gus defeats him and in particular I like the manner in which he is killed. But it is incongruous with how the character is presented prior to this episode. He has an almost supernatural quality and yet is so easily defeated. It just doesn't feel right. Again, I'd have to stress that I thought the finale (and everything prior to that) was excellent. Just incongruous.

As an aside, I really liked Kay and Peele/Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, but it felt a bit on the nose.
i could buy Lester getting the drop on Malvo but for him just to split when Lester is literally 10 feet away.. only thing that really didnt sit well with me.
 
Wow! Some of you guys here are sure easily amazed/amused. I thought this was a good to mediocre show at best. it definitely wasn't "amazing" or "the best". It was surely entertaining, it kept my coming back to see it till the end, but honestly, there was too many moments in too many episodes where I felt cheated as a viewer, as an audience, too many times the writing just hits a dead end, doesn't care to make these characters realistically exist in the " Fargo" universe; stupid jokes for joke's sake, ridiculous and super unrealistic, cartoonish scenarios, just for he sake of dragging along the plot. (Ie: Lester or Malvo, shouldn't get caught or killed just yet scenarios) and worst scenarios, characters who often contradicted their behavior or just acting unusually when put in certain situations. (see Lester's Asian wife or even the cartoonishly incompetent Key and Peele as FBI agents)

Fargo being one of my top five favorite films of all time is what made me stick around this show, it certainly carried some of the Fargo (Cohen bros.) DNA in it, a distant cousin maybe? Add to that the great cast of main characters, wasn't hard to watch I tell ya!

But to sum it up, the show felt like going on a date with an innocent, pretty yet very uncultured and often stupid county girl. You know one of those girls, you at first would be excited about, you're too happy that she's hot and you think the hard part is out of the way, you can actually make her personality more interesting and smarter, ( Because you know... It's possible to change people) Only to realize after a month or so that you haven't even influenced her an ounce with your personality, it is her in fact that had changed you for the worse, made you a bit dummer, less cooler than who you used to be, all this in the expense of having a "hot" girlfriend. Yet at the end you aren't happier and definitely not any wiser, if not dumber.

Because that's how I felt like at the end of the final shot of the show. When Molly and Gus and thier daughter were all cuddling on the couch and watching Deal or No Deal or whatever, everything wrapped up in a nice little cute package.

I know...I know...

ThisisNeoGaf.gif unpopular opinion and all that.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Depends what you are looking for. Are you fine with cartoony characters with little depth? With pseudo-sophistication in the form of riddles and parables that have little bearing on what's going on? And maybe most importantly, are you fine with whatever meaning or purpose that the writers meant by with that approach to be eroded and fade away thanks to over-repetition, beating your head with it time and time again?

You could just as easily be describing True Detective, btw.

I should've known after 10 episodes of building up Malvo into an unstoppable force, they wouldn't be able to give his character a proper ending. If he was going to die, it should've been at the hands of either Molly or Lester. Instead we get a scene where stupid, incompetent Gus gee gollys himself into his den which he randomly stumbles upon. Oh yeah, he just happens to stop his car, turn his head to the left and OH LOOK IT'S MALVO'S CAR. Yeah, and he'd totally go in there just to wait until Malvo came back too. Sure. It just reeks of a "welp, we need to give Gus some redemption after we wrote him as a complete screw up for the first 9 episodes" sequence.

I agree. I really wasn't satisfied with how they killed Malvo at the hands of Gus. It really should have been either Molly or Lester that killed him.
 

Prisoner

Member
Great show but I wasn't completely satisfied with the finale. Lester's and Malvo's deaths just felt anti-climatic and rushed. It did seem right that Gus should kill Malvo, though, after he let him slip away to begin with.

I'm not a fan of Key and Peele but they were great in this.

Just finished the finale. I'm a bit peeved. I should've known after 10 episodes of building up Malvo into an unstoppable force, they wouldn't be able to give his character a proper ending. If he was going to die, it should've been at the hands of either Molly or Lester. Instead we get a scene where stupid, incompetent Gus gee gollys himself into his den which he randomly stumbles upon. Oh yeah, he just happens to stop his car, turn his head to the left and OH LOOK IT'S MALVO'S CAR. Yeah, and he'd totally go in there just to wait until Malvo came back too. Sure. It just reeks of a "welp, we need to give Gus some redemption after we wrote him as a complete screw up for the first 9 episodes" sequence.

I don't know, it seemed to me like they were working towards having Gus redeem himself in this way the entire time.
 

Grinchy

Banned
His leg nearly got chopped off in a bear trap.

Not to mention they had already set the scenario up with a conversation in an earlier episode. Malvo was telling the deaf guy in the hospital about the bear that got stuck in a trap and chewed his foot off so he could go and die on his own terms.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
The series' biggest problem is that the Malvo of the first nine episodes is very different to the Malvo of the finale. He's a basically super human, infallible killing machine and then... he just isn't. He gets wounded by and flees from Lester. Lester!

Dramatically speaking, I like that Gus defeats him and in particular I like the manner in which he is killed. But it is incongruous with how the character is presented prior to this episode. He has an almost supernatural quality and yet is so easily defeated. It just doesn't feel right. Again, I'd have to stress that I thought the finale (and everything prior to that) was excellent. Just incongruous.

As an aside, I really liked Kay and Peele/Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, but it felt a bit on the nose.

Yeah, you pretty much summed up my feelings on it. The last episode just feels sorta off because it becomes so different than the character we've seen up until that point. Then again, the point might be that Malvo's luck just ran out. He obviously was good at planning things out, but some stuff was just pure luck. Like the FBI agents being distracted when he went on his rampage. He was walking between the raindrops but not always because that's what he wanted. The universe just kept giving him a good hand.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
I could see a way of having Lester do Malvo in, but the desire for Molly to do it doesn't track for me. Those two had literally zero interaction the entire series. It made far more sense for the end of Malvo's story to involve Gus or Lester, or both as it were.

Now, I might have wanted Molly to have one final scene with Lester relating to his capture, but I think their final conversation said a lot too.
 

Saty

Member
Just finished the finale. I'm a bit peeved. I should've known after 10 episodes of building up Malvo into an unstoppable force, they wouldn't be able to give his character a proper ending. If he was going to die, it should've been at the hands of either Molly or Lester. Instead we get a scene where stupid, incompetent Gus gee gollys himself into his den which he randomly stumbles upon. Oh yeah, he just happens to stop his car, turn his head to the left and OH LOOK IT'S MALVO'S CAR. Yeah, and he'd totally go in there just to wait until Malvo came back too. Sure. It just reeks of a "welp, we need to give Gus some redemption after we wrote him as a complete screw up for the first 9 episodes" sequence.

But you don't understand. Gus stopped the car exactly at the spot that allowed him to recognize Malvo's car because there was a wolf on the road. One predator sealing the fate of another. Symbolism. Circle closed.

Do you guys watch, and enjoy, Coen brothers movies?
Watched some, largely likable. Didn't watch Fargo but all i read from people who watched both the film and the tv show is how unlike the latter is to the former.

You could just as easily be describing True Detective, btw.
Don't agree with that at all. Not sure where's the similarities. TD has a strong basis and characters. Whatever discussions there were about symbols and pictures on the wall were more or less devoted to those discussions and it wasn't something the show pounded on the viewer.
The only commonality in my mind between the shows is a disappointing finale.

--
Some of the show's choice shenanigans (spoilers of course):

-In order for Lester to frame his brother, he recovered the murder weapon that he hid. Why on god's earth would anyone keep such an item (still covered with blood and all) at hand? The idea sprung in his mind, he didn't plan to do anything when he first hid it. It only makes sense as angle that's being forced by the writers.

-Even still, the frame job is one of the most intelligently insulting setup i've ever seen. It would unravel in seconds at the hands of any person save for those in Bemidji. No one even bothers to run prints and discover there are none of the brother (why would he wipe out the prints but not the blood) and so on. For some reason i'm supposed to understand\accept this bullshit because it lends the show quirkiness and it's small-town incompetence (even though the brother is locked up, so even higher authorities somehow didn't pick it up. And after the time-jump we learn that somehow Molly, the silver lining of the show, can't prove to the fbi for an entire year that the wrong person is locked up).

- The criminal couple who followed Malvo throughout the day in order to get the jump on him and kill decide to engage......in the middle of THE WORST BLIZZARD EVER. Zero visibility; extremely windy. Yes, that's when we are going to use our surprise factor! They've been tailing him for a day, why didn't they wait for Malvo go get inside a building or his room? Easy surprise and assured kill. But nope! Let's do the worst and senseless things we can. If the writers wanted Malvo alive then can they please come up with a scenario that doesn't insult the viewer and requires ghastly writing?

-I liked how after Malvo tapes Dawn and makes him take the fall, after the SWAT team enters the house and kills Dawn, we hear on the radio chatter 'oddest suicide by cop i've ever seen'. Somehow again, they missed the obvious fact of Dawn being duct taped to his place and that there's surely a person who placed him that way.

For reasons unknown, Fargo flaunts its weaknesses and seems like doing it to spite. It doesn't know where to stop and be measured.

For instance, it was established early on that they are characterizing Malvo is unstoppable, unbeatable, almost supernatural force. Then why linger on that again and again? Enough, you got your point across and it only dilutes and erodes your meaning.

But they had to show Malvo walking into a hospital (when's his face should be plastered all over), kill the cop that's outside the deaf guy's room, and then wait all night and until the morning to talk to the guy. In those 12 hours he was waiting:
- No one at the hospital raises an eyebrow about there being no guard outside the room.
- No police officials are coming to check the situation or switch shifts.
- No nurses\doctors enter the room to check on the patient.
- No one visits the man's bathroom to see the corpse of a policeman.

At that point i don't care about the philosophy and whatever you tried to achieve with that character at the beginning - you are shitting on your viewers just because you can.

(haven't even touched upon the FBI guys).

Similarly, when the change in Lester's personality and attitude happens, the show doesn't satisfies itself with one or two 'examples' of that change:
-Lester seduces Mrs. Hess.
-Chaz's wife showing some signals of her maybe romantically pursuing Lester.

OK, at that point we get what you are trying to show with Lester's transformation. But no:

-Linda practically cums standing at the office when Lester is visited and he shows attitude.
-Lester wins Best Salesman award.
-Lester is ditching his wife in favor of seducing a woman he laid his eyes on.

There was way too much of that in Fargo - a show screeching what it's trying to convey.
 

Draconian

Member
But you don't understand. Gus stopped the car exactly at the spot that allowed him to recognize Malvo's car because there was a wolf on the road. One predator sealing the fate of another. Symbolism. Circle closed.

I'm sorry, but this is just weak. So events can happen simply by having good luck, but that's ok because due to symbolism, it makes perfect sense. Let's just admit they wrote themselves into a corner here. They clearly had the plan of making Malvo into an invincible character, but that he should die at the end with no idea of how to execute both in a way that felt earned. Instead we got an almost stereotypically good ending. The guy who screws up gets redemption, because he's a nice guy and he deserves it. If that means we make him do things out of character and completely fluke his way into some redemption without earning it at all, then so be it.

Really it reminds be of the problem that the Star Trek: TNG writers had with the Borg. The Borg were only in a handful of episodes because the writers had a really difficult time thinking of ways for the enterprise crew to defeat them. In this case, it's immediately apparent to me that they had no idea what to do about the end of Malvo's arc and it's a shame. The fact that we had not a single scene with Malvo and Molly both in it together is inexcusable to me considering her arc was dominated with investigating him and Lester.
 

Linius

Member
I'm sorry, but this is just weak. So events can happen simply by having good luck, but that's ok because due to symbolism, it makes perfect sense. Let's just admit they wrote themselves into a corner here. They clearly had the plan of making Malvo into an invincible character, but that he should die at the end with no idea of how to execute both in a way that felt earned. Instead we got an almost stereotypically good ending. The guy who screws up gets redemption, because he's a nice guy and he deserves it. If that means we make him do things out of character and completely fluke his way into some redemption without earning it at all, then so be it.

Really it reminds be of the problem that the Star Trek: TNG writers had with the Borg. The Borg were only in a handful of episodes because the writers had a really difficult time thinking of ways for the enterprise crew to defeat them. In this case, it's immediately apparent to me that they had no idea what to do about the end of Malvo's arc and it's a shame. The fact that we had not a single scene with Malvo and Molly both in it together is inexcusable to me considering her arc was dominated with investigating him and Lester.

I'm guessing Saty wasn't serious there. Just guessing.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
His leg nearly got chopped off in a bear trap.
He was mere feet away with nothing but a paper thin bathroom door between them. Its not like Malvo had to put on a tourniquet and was bleeding out and died from blood loss. Its a severe injury of course but up until that moment Malvo was like an unstoppable force of nature. A man that could walk in a building of 20 armed and dangerous men and execute every last one and not get hit once. i dont even mind the bear trap or Malvo dying.. but to just leave Lester when he was right there? i could see if Lester had jumped out and Malvo couldnt pursue but he was right fucking there! Shoot into the bathroom and mission accomplished.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
I could see a way of having Lester do Malvo in, but the desire for Molly to do it doesn't track for me. Those two had literally zero interaction the entire series. It made far more sense for the end of Malvo's story to involve Gus or Lester, or both as it were.

Molly spent pretty much the entire season searching for Malvo, all on her own, so I felt like she should have been the one to bring him in, or at the very least had a more direct role in his capture/death.

Similarly, I think she should have also had a more direct role in Lester's fate as well, or at the very least have one more scene with him before he died.

Giving Gus the honor of whacking Malvo and having Lester die in such a random way felt very unsatisfying to me.
 

Grinchy

Banned
Molly spent pretty much the entire season searching for Malvo, all on her own, so I felt like she should have been the one to bring him in, or at the very least had a more direct role in his capture/death.

Similarly, I think she should have also had a more direct role in Lester's fate as well, or at the very least have one more scene with him before he died.

Giving Gus the honor of whacking Malvo and having Lester die in such a random way felt very unsatisfying to me.

I think that's exactly how we're supposed to feel, though. Look at how despondent she is when she uses the analogy with the pair of gloves. We're all on her side, we all want her to take down the bad guys, but in the end all she really did was set it up for other people to get the credit.

It's not a flaw in the writing. It's specifically written to be that way.
 

Quote

Member
Molly spent pretty much the entire season searching for Malvo, all on her own, so I felt like she should have been the one to bring him in, or at the very least had a more direct role in his capture/death.

Similarly, I think she should have also had a more direct role in Lester's fate as well, or at the very least have one more scene with him before he died.

Giving Gus the honor of whacking Malvo and having Lester die in such a random way felt very unsatisfying to me.
Gus needed to kill him to keep the prey/predator theme. Molly never seemed like either and was always okay with that.

I agree Lester's death was a bit of a letdown though. I try to tell myself he died how he should have at the lake with the Fargo hit men, but I can't convince myself.
 
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