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Fellow Americans, do you realize how much people envy us?
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When thinking about another country, unless you've spent some time there, you'll never get a true picture of the nation and its people. It's all too easy to just look at the news and events that occur in a country and make assumptions on how this reflect on the whole nation.
Looking from the outside in, being a socially conscious, atheist European, the American political spectrum freaks me the fuck out. As does the rampant religiosity of the country. Based on seeing US news, especially during election years, it makes the entire country seem to be entirely populated by ignorant, bigoted manics. Which isn't the case, obviously.
I've spent a bit of time in NY, and love the city to bits. Mostly because the above wasn't apparent. But whenever I've met American's from other states, especially from the South, they often conform to my negative, pre-held ideas about Americans.
While I could quite happily live in NYC, there are aspects of the wider American psyche that I just can't get my head around. For a suppository Christian nation, the complete lack of altruism and empathy for fellow countrymen boggles my mind. How the less fortunate are demonised, and assisting the more vulnerable sections of society is seen as un-American, and nothing short of evil communism. Economic libertarianism is politicised selfishness, yet seems to be the defacto American political view.
Looking from the outside in, being a socially conscious, atheist European, the American political spectrum freaks me the fuck out. As does the rampant religiosity of the country. Based on seeing US news, especially during election years, it makes the entire country seem to be entirely populated by ignorant, bigoted manics. Which isn't the case, obviously.
I've spent a bit of time in NY, and love the city to bits. Mostly because the above wasn't apparent. But whenever I've met American's from other states, especially from the South, they often conform to my negative, pre-held ideas about Americans.
While I could quite happily live in NYC, there are aspects of the wider American psyche that I just can't get my head around. For a suppository Christian nation, the complete lack of altruism and empathy for fellow countrymen boggles my mind. How the less fortunate are demonised, and assisting the more vulnerable sections of society is seen as un-American, and nothing short of evil communism. Economic libertarianism is politicised selfishness, yet seems to be the defacto American political view.
Many, many Americans have this brand of nationalism deeply ingrained in them. American media, economy, society - most institutions - are designed to manufacture and reproduce it. Many countries are like this, but America is definitely the most advanced in this respect.
theignoramus
Member
lol. Anyone bring up the stats on crime and poverty in inner city America yet?
I dont imagine the folks living in that situation feel like they've won a lottery.
I dont imagine the folks living in that situation feel like they've won a lottery.
The American Dream was never a myth to me since my family has actually achieved it. I suppose that experience would generally indoctrinate someone to believe in the amazing social mobility of the U.S., but thankfully I had already been indoctrinated by empiricism.
In fact, I really don't understand the type of nationalism some people have. Simply spouting that America is the greatest country does not achieve anything besides introducing poisonous complacency. I want to live in the greatest country and that means actively looking at and fixing problems. Even if we weren't behind other nations in all sorts of metrics, a true U.S. nationalist would never be satisfied with with the way things are.
In fact, I really don't understand the type of nationalism some people have. Simply spouting that America is the greatest country does not achieve anything besides introducing poisonous complacency. I want to live in the greatest country and that means actively looking at and fixing problems. Even if we weren't behind other nations in all sorts of metrics, a true U.S. nationalist would never be satisfied with with the way things are.
Vicetrailia
Banned
In quite a few ways, yes. Visiting Germany for 2 weeks made me think of a lot of things...in just that short time-span.
Unhandled Exception
Member
Not a whole lot to be envious about. It hasn't been good living here since the 90s.
The funny thing is, the attempts to instill greater nationalism among the population is usually done with the thought that the more people love their country, the harder they'll work to make their country better. Unfortunately, it has, in many cases, backfired, as many people are content with America's current state as "The best country in the world".
You'd think, based on the myth of the American Dream, that USA is the premier place to start off as a hardworking poor person and eventually make a decent living or even get rich.
But actual statistics show that social mobility is lower in the US than in many other developed nations.
So basically the Danish Dream, the Australian Dream, the Norwegian Dream, the Finnish Dream, the Canadian Dream, the Swedish Dream, the German Dream and the Spanish Dream are all more promising than the legendary American Dream
Ah thanks for posting this. Apparently after reading parts of the PDF it seems that its main point is a focus on education and that other countries spend their money on education more wisely and have better policies rather than spending more money. It also focuses on educational and wage mobility. It also does claim that less inequality and investments in that helps with social mobility. My above view about how USA is a large entity that encompasses a bigger combination of successes and failures than the smaller successful nations might also be a factor. I guess the overall message is mostly that Americans should improve their educational system.
Considering the current situation of Spanish economy I would not be speaking about a Spanish dream though.
Also increase of loans for education especially if there are frivolous loans among them, can have negative effects as well so in my view people should be careful even when it can be seen that borrowing more money to do something or spending more money to do something has positives, there is an issue that needs to be handled with attention and mindful of possible negatives.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That's true. And I admit the link is 2 years old, too.
All things considered, you can move up the ladder in America just fine.
However, I was recently talking to a immigrant in Canada who had the idea that if he moved to America he'd have a better chance of making it big. "American Dream" after all. But the stats don't bear that out...
The American dream might apply more to foreigners than Americans themselves. USA has some of the best universities and people from abroad who are sufficiently educated to continue their studies there might end up with the opportunity for high income . If there is a problem with education in the USA before universities then non-Americans might have a benefit.
Also, I am not sure if the study tells the whole truth when we compare countries in terms of whether there is an interest in migrating or not. There might be less social mobility but wages might be consistently higher as well in a country with less social mobility. So for an immigrant migration might bring higher social mobility. Still, we might need to see more studies about this as well. Generally if I was part of successful countries such as Canada, I would probably check to see if specifically there are higher wages about the things I have job experience, and education in the country I wish to migrate to than just assuming I will make it big.
As a Canadian citizen in British Columbia, I have the following (just to name a couple things that you don't have):
- Universal Healthcare (which is a basic right for everyone, no matter their economic status)
- Same-sex marriage (also a basic human right)
- Cultural diversity (actual cultural diversity, not the "American Dream" of boiling every culture into being American)
- Stable economy (thanks to banking regulations)
The fact is being Canadian is better than being American if you're not a selfish asshole like at least the voting majority of Americans are. Yes, if you're against giving a bit more income tax for Universal Healthcare, don't approve of same-sex marriage, and think other cultures should be assimilated, then you're a selfish asshole.
I am finding a good number of Americans are starting to realize what the actual score is, it's envy of Canadians. Difference is people can be envious of Canadians but they still don't hate us.
- Universal Healthcare (which is a basic right for everyone, no matter their economic status)
- Same-sex marriage (also a basic human right)
- Cultural diversity (actual cultural diversity, not the "American Dream" of boiling every culture into being American)
- Stable economy (thanks to banking regulations)
The fact is being Canadian is better than being American if you're not a selfish asshole like at least the voting majority of Americans are. Yes, if you're against giving a bit more income tax for Universal Healthcare, don't approve of same-sex marriage, and think other cultures should be assimilated, then you're a selfish asshole.
I am finding a good number of Americans are starting to realize what the actual score is, it's envy of Canadians. Difference is people can be envious of Canadians but they still don't hate us.
I blame the republicans for a large majority of whats wrong in our country, including the bolded. Demonizing the poor, and making it seem like it's the minorities (those filthy blacks and mexicans) begging for handouts. The idiots (racists, majority in the south) eat it up, and seem to forget there are a shitload of poor white folks out there.
I admit, we don't hate you. Just laugh at you a lot.
Living in New York City, I pretty much have all of these things. Healthcare is provided by my school and living here for 5 years, it's been pretty stable (other than rental prices going way up since there's no shortage of people that want to live here).
For anyone requiring evidence that Canada also has arrogant, stupid douchebags.
Canada is cold as fuck.
See. This is the issue you Americans have that you don't realize. Listen to the words you used "I pretty much have all of these things". It's not about the I, it's about the we. It's about providing those human rights to all people. Everything I said was available to me, was available to all.
I am also arrogant, but that's just my personal personality, not a national identity.
I doubt you'd find anyone who'd argue that America isn't a wonderful place to live if you're wealthy. Perhaps the very best. And you have more opportunity than most to get to achieving wealth.
Where the 'best country in the world' claim falls down is for the bulk of the population that are middle and lower income. Employee rights are astonishingly absent, and the idea that companies can give you a pay decreases is incredible. Lower cost of living and low taxes doesn't mean shit if you have to pay through the nose for individual education and heath care, especially with very little in the way of a social safety net. To me, the fact that minimum wage is so low in the US, and 1 in 4 are below the poverty line means that the country could never be see as the best.
But this all comes back to the notion that American see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
Where the 'best country in the world' claim falls down is for the bulk of the population that are middle and lower income. Employee rights are astonishingly absent, and the idea that companies can give you a pay decreases is incredible. Lower cost of living and low taxes doesn't mean shit if you have to pay through the nose for individual education and heath care, especially with very little in the way of a social safety net. To me, the fact that minimum wage is so low in the US, and 1 in 4 are below the poverty line means that the country could never be see as the best.
But this all comes back to the notion that American see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
It must be all the cold. How do people SURVIVE up there?
Everyone in the world? Every being in the universe?
go suck the dicks of your corporate overlords. You guys are even worse than America at that. It's just that you don't have many large corporations, which is prolly for the better!
I think Facebook could buy Canada.
But you used the word "I" too...
So yeah, everyone in my school (we), along with several other communities have all of that stuff.
I'm not going to deny that America has serious problems regarding self-interest but the entire point of this thread is that there are very few objective reasons why certain nations are better than others (especially when talking about developed countries).
I mean, you specified that you lived in British Columbia, and there's a good reason why Vancouver is one of the cities I'd definitely consider living in whereas something like North Battleford, Saskatchewan (where a friend of mine is currently working) is not.
I think this highlights a big point of this thread.
A lot of people in other countries think that they are "just like America" in terms of diversity, standard of living, etc. but they simply aren't. They actually have no idea how much better it is here than wherever they're from because they live in a bubble and have no frame of reference. Canadians are the perfect example, of people who think they are "just as diverse" as America, when in reality they're nowhere close.
America has a unique blend of people and values (freedom, democracy, entrepreneurship, and capitalism) that has allowed us to achieve a level of success and wealth the rest of the world can only dream of.
Oh, this country? So it's ok to be selfish when one considers their own country, but not their own state or community or workplace. Interesting, isn't it? We can arbitrarily define any boundaries we like. Why isn't it selfish to declare all the wonderful things you have when most in the world could never dream of them? Maybe throwing that word around amongst residents of first world countries should be limited in the interest of saving glass.
I'd wager that most Canadians that mention their cultural diversity are in fact from or near major metropolitan centers where I'm sure the diversity is similar to that in the U.S. Not to mention the fact that the U.S. has large areas with little to no cultural diversity.
As for your second point, I don't really think there's anything special about being "American" as opposed to anything else, and I would like to think that idea is self-evident. But I get the feeling you're not exactly being genuine.
I don't know, he didn't call anybody a fuckwad or anything, that's like Canadian level douchebaggery, you still wind up being very polite :l
you gotta be trollin' son.
I'm not going to bother responding to you Centurion, but you are re-enforcing my negative impression of the "American identity".
But we're talking about nations. The concept of other national citizens being envious of Americans, which is every single one of those 350 million people. Not a school. Not a community. Not a city. Not a state.
But we're talking about nations. The concept of other national citizens being envious of Americans, which is every single one of those 350 million people. Not a school. Not a community. Not a city. Not a state.
truth hurts doesn't it?
Vancouver:
Toronto:
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New York City:
Los Angeles:
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Canadians who claim that they are more ethnically diverse than America don't know what they are talking about.
To the second point, American society fosters innovation and success, which is why nearly all of the biggest world technology, weapons, etc. are American companies. Second would probably be Japan.
You were talking about a province (BC).
I'm not so sure that North Battlefield has the same cultural diversity as Vancouver.
I live in Vancouver which has 40% of it's population that is foreign-born as of 2006. I could not find 2012 statistics but I would assume it's closer to 45% now and is expected to be close to 70% by 2030.
Here is a copy of a full study of diversity and the rapid increase in foreign-born population expected:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/100309/dq100309a-eng.htm
Here is the study for America, US percent of foreign-born population is 12.9% as of 2012:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/acs-19.pdf
So statistically, we are still more culturally diverse than America. The most important part I was trying to make with mentioning our cultural diversity is a culture policy. People aren't assimilated into a prototypical culture ("being American") in Canada, but are able to retain their cultural identity while assimilating being Canadian (opposite concept). It's the crayon box concept vs your melting pot concept (crayons put into a melting pot to become the same gray)
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