HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
let's not mince words.
Feminist writers are so besieged by online abuse that some have begun to retire (WaPo
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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let's not mince words.
I could actually believe that men are harassed as much as women online. The difference, I'd imagine, is that I'd also be willing to bet that when it happens to a woman, it's more sustained and intense.
Like, even if someone threatened to rape me, it's not the same level of insult to a man because it's not an event I can even conceive of realistically happening to me, barring prison.
And yes, I know it happens, but that's not the point....
Like, even if someone threatened to rape me, it's not the same level of insult to a man because it's not an event I can even conceive of realistically happening to me, barring prison.
And yes, I know it happens, but that's not the point....
I only brought up GG to include the games media 'conspiracy' craziness that is becoming more rampant in the industry and here.
'Ethics in game journalism rhetoric etc etc'
What were the account suicides saying?
I think first we really need to admit that there is a big difference between insults and threats. It sucks when some jerk hurts your feelings but no one should be made to fear for their safety.
I think first we really need to admit that there is a big difference between insults and threats. It sucks when some jerk hurts your feelings but no one should be made to fear for their safety.
HolyBaikal
Banned
The internet can be such a mean place. I don't understand why more people don't want to be nice. You don't need a reason to be nice to people. :<
I'm a feminist, I'm very sad my opinions can be so unwelcome on the internet..
We're so far away from equality..
I'm a feminist, I'm very sad my opinions can be so unwelcome on the internet..
We're so far away from equality..
PseudoKirby
Banned
^this, when will we all be treated equally and put fourth the effort of eliminating harassment as a whole online
Well, according to that study, 44% men and 37% women have suffered some form of online abuse. Men get more physical threats (10% compared to 6%), and slightly more sustained harassment (8% compared to 7%). Women suffer more sexual harassment (9% versus 6%} and more stalking (10% compared to 7%}.
I disagree. Look at any comment section that is connected to facebook and you see the same ignorant nonsense that you get on any other site. The thing that makes people watch what they say is distance, and as long as people are posting on the Internet, that will always be an issue. There are people who will talk all kinds of shit about people on facebook and twitter but will say nothing if they're in the same room with that person.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Nobody is saying men are perfectly fine being harassed.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
This Twitter account has 71000 tweets about the inferiority of black people and Jews.
https://twitter.com/genophilia
... Not banning these types of people seems like something that would actually scare off a lot of potential consumers. We're not just talking about "non-feminists" not being banned, Twitter won't ban the worst people in the world.
"Twitter is infringing on my freedom of speech!"
And then the media has a field day.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying, I understand why they do nothing.
Yeah the "it happens to men too" argument just derails the discussion. This article is about feminist writers.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
No, no one in the media cares when shitty Twitter accounts get shut down outside of two or three rags like Breitbart.
bengraven
Member
Naw, they care.
For a day.
"Why twitter may not be the place for you: Is twitter's TOS service really fair for all those who use it?"
And then they forget because people need their cat photos.
teruterubozu
Member
To Tweet is to be Free.
Team Filler
Member
I realize this might be splitting hairs, but wouldn't discussion of male writers that publicly identify as feminists be fair grounds for discussion?
Consider the flip where it means forcing women to put their name and face next to any post they make. Even the women who do it as journalists and writers feel the blowback. Imagine wanting to post in a controversial reddit thread about abortion under your real name? Stalker city. Women, minorities, dissenters would just stop posting.
Anonymity it more important than ever today with corporate and government surveillance being what it is. I don't want to be sitting in jail like that kid who sarcastically said he's really the type to shoot up a school when someone called him a psycho in an online game.
True.
I'm not saying it's a good thing, i'm saying it's going to happen because people can't behave themselves in the internet. When these places don't want to police themselves, they'll leave it to OTHER PEOPLE who have OTHER IDEAS on how to make this problem go away so they can continue making more money.
Sure, but I doubt you'll find one that's gotten the same level and duration of abuse.
Even Phil Fish, who got plenty of shit from people before he started defending people like Zoe Quinn and Brianna Wu, has probably seen a dramatic halt to the daily shit he was getting. But that being said, he also walked away from this mess.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Wrong. Sure, they'll tout it as a victory, but won't notice the fact that the only people supporting them anymore are members of the Westboro Baptist Church.
Being silent about this is the exact opposite of a good idea. Vocalizing the abuse that is occurring is what makes people realize that GamerGate is trash. If it wasn't for these articles, so many people I know wouldn't know wtf a GamerGate is.
Who knows, maybe the govt. is forcing Twitter to keep the acct. active so they can monitor it. And Twitter wouldn't be able to disclose that they're under a court order because those are secret. Shit like that happens all the time.
Remember when the FBI ran a pedophilia site for weeks to gather evidence?
http://m.sfgate.com/local/article/FBI-shared-child-porn-to-nab-pedophiles-4552044.php
The biggest reason is at some point, there's a line where you either start patrolling *everything* or you patrol nothing and let users do it, and given the number of users on Twitter and the volume of tweets, it's far easier for social media companies to rely on reporting and flagging content. You simply cannot go through every single post, though there are the unenviable jobs at places like Google and Facebook where they have to mod the firehose of effluence that gets posted.
When you're trying to discuss how to reduce harassment on the internet, I'd say "harassment on the internet" is a topic to discuss. There's nothing being covered in the OP-linked article that doesn't apply to anyone online.
the "b-b-but what about men" argument, like clockwork
A Link to the Past
Banned
Except that you don't see men consistently driven out of writing because they are men. All of the harassment men face affects women too, and then women face harassment that men do not. The idea that we should focus on harassment of everyone instead of harassment of the most harassed is like when people responded to BlackLivesMatter by saying AllLivesMatter. Of course all lives matter, but not all lives are constantly at risk of serious oppression.
bish is gay, Christina Hendricks is fat, and gaf is a "hard, hard, hard, hard left wing-nut" forum.
Pretty much this. I see a lot of dumb comments (typically from white men surprise surprise) that are along the lines of "don't kick the wasp nest" and "just ignore it and it will go away". The problem is these people exist and harass people regardless of it being in the news or not, they just get louder when challenged. It is important to challenge it so the issue gains wider visibility and as a society we can try to do something about it.
I know I don't want to just sit around and let a wasp nest grow on my house.
If they are being harrassed into quitting their jobs and abandoning social media then sure. They don't seem to be the focus of the article though.
Totally, which is why you take small steps. New users can't post for 72 hours, new users on probation for a month, you have to use a non-free email address to sign up for a new account, you implement silent bans and allow context filters, things that make getting caught for exceedingly poor behavior non-trival. I don't expect some poor person to go over every tweet said with a fine tooth comb, but the tools need to be created that allow people to mold their own experience.
The fact that it's impossible to ban a hashtag from showing up on your feed without the use of 3rd party scripts is a huge problem.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
I don't get the culture of harassment that seems to be developing on the internet. You can disagree with someone and not like what they have to saw without verbally abusing them through text, e-mail, phone calls, etc. Is it really that hard to confront an opposing viewpoint without reacting like a huge asshole? Like WTF man 
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
.... not when the intent is to derail the discussion with "Not All Men" bullshit.
I usually ignore list articles, but that was pretty good, particularly the part about "equalists".
lol
Fair enough, this is about feminist writers. My interest was more about how two different media outlets present the same study rather than the more narrow issue with feminist writers. However, I do find this really dismissive argument so funny though. As if like men can just wait for a more male-centric discussion of the topic. It would never be framed that way.
Why wait? You are welcome to make your own thread instead of insisting every thread about women's issues becomes plagued with, "men face issues too!"
We don't dismiss them because they aren't valid, we dismiss them because they are rarely said in good faith but rather another way to derail the conversation at hand.
Twitter could do a hell of a lot more so that users can filter out this garbage.
Team Filler
Member
Right. I was curious about that while reading the article, because even in there it seemed like the author was associating "feminist=female" in the way it reads, and I know GAF has been pretty good about associating feminism more with activism towards the betterment of both genders.
wouldn't that be incredibly ironic.
Also "Mike Brown was a thug" (but he didn't mean that in a racist way!) and Brianna Wu is a "fucking nutbag" who is "mentally unstable."
I have no interest in it. It's just that lately I have seen so many stories in the media about online harassment framed completely as a woman's issue. I just find it funny how people who say, "well, actually, this isn't just a woman's issue" are instantly dismissed with the usual, "but what about the men?". It implies that some men are so self-interested, they always have to make it about them too. Yet, the truth is, it never really is about men, that's the whole point. That's why you get these comments.
That's basically what I meant.
I hope me posting that article didn't come off like that. It was more about responding directly to the question if a man would get similar threats.
A large portion of men don't care for feminism and consider it an attack on all things male.
Right or wrong there will always be opposition.
Also a lot of people don't care about rights except for their own.
fair points all around, i hope i don't come off like i'm accusing either of you of anything malicious. i was speaking more to PseudoKirby's attitude towards Feminism.
Armageddon
Neo Member
This is probably just me being naive since I don't really care or use social media myself, but is Twitter a requirement for a writing position nowadays? If Twitter is horrible with both the amount of harassment received and the tools to prevent harassment, why use it? Are there no viable alternatives?
Of course you can receive harassment from sources other than Twitter (email for example), but this isn't a new problem so surely there are ways to handle this problem?
Of course you can receive harassment from sources other than Twitter (email for example), but this isn't a new problem so surely there are ways to handle this problem?
JonathanNemo
Member
It's good for marketing and getting ahold of the disenfranchised.
Twitter has hit a certain critical mass to reach out to these people, and it's easier to do so on Twitter than Facebook by design. No other social network has the same outreach.
The problem isn't Twitter specifically, but using a popular social media service. The reason everyone uses Twitter is because it has a huge user population so you have more people to connect with. It is a super powerful advertising platform.
If everyone moved to something else, all the same exact problems and harassment would follow because the problem is the people and not specifically the service. Anywhere you go that has a mass market share will be like this, and that is the problem.
And letting bullys dictate where the conversation takes place is bullshit we need to be fighting against.
Vocalizing abuse is important, but this article's headline makes it seem like feminist writers are giving up en masse.
Bingo. The issue isn't the service. The issue is the people.
My posts were more about the issue from a wider perspective, and mainly in response to the Pew study posted.
My issue was not really with you specifically but more the phrase, "but what about the men?" which is a common phrase used. It's nothing personal. I just find it funny because you would never get a story about online harassment being an issue for men. It's never framed that way. That's all I meant.
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