You also have to look at de-facto segregation based upon demographics and socio-economics as a means of why thus occurs and where the means happens. Broken windows theory for example, for crime and hot-spot oriented policing. But the NYPD is a different animal compared to other departments due to their geographic locale and sheer size, especially in how they handle patrol and their tactics (with respect to foot patrol operations, subways, dense urban environments, camera systems, etc) -- and I'll be completely honest in that I know very little about their department policies and general orders.Where?
Here are the stop and frisk stats from the largest city in the US -
Racial profiling as a law.....
Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds
- Thread starter jordan0386
- Start date
- Status
I bet in your mythical Californian paradise city that you lot treat your minorities well. Keep doing so
LOL You don't live here so that is cute, but honestly it would change nothing. because the vast majority knows it doesn't effect them. Sure lip service will be played, but nothing will change because the system is set up to not let anything change.
Thing is, there is nothing any black person in America can do that would make it harder on anybody. Whether or not blacks are model citizens, or getting a free tv via looting, the state has already decided that it does not give a damn to stop the widespread murder of brown people via its police force. THEY DONT CARE
benjipwns
Banned
What about the war on cops?
They threatened to stop responding to emergency calls in a timely manner as a petty retort for perceived "lack of support" after killing an unarmed asthmatic by strangling him in an illegal chokehold.
That should tell you something about their general attitude.
Current LEO culture in departments, general orders, policies, and practices. While one may take the stance that I cannot generalize the culture of my department to departments on the East Coast, or the Mid-west (fair point) ... the same logic is applicable both ways in applying to every department and generalizing the actions of a few to the actions of the many. Remember, LEO make tens of millions of interactions with civilians every year... you only hear about .00001 of those.
Riots are protests.
You may not like them, but they are a direct reaction to the injustices being carried out. And they do have a political influence, for good or for ill.
And unfortunately, we aren't going to get enough peaceful protesters to move the needle before we get enough riots for the apathetic part of the nation to finally demand that something is done. Only then will the peaceful protestors make some headway.
WHAT CITY.
theignoramus
Member
I believe you sincerely believe that, but Ive seen too many studies indicating that there is in fact a systemic bias from law enforcement towards blacks. The stats get especially outrageous when it comes to arrests and convictions for minor drug possession.
It's hard not to feel America's urban cops are about enforcing the current social order, with the bottom of that totem pole, low income communities, being treated like a jungle to be aggressively controlled and subdued.
Whoever they is might not care but I do. People are supposed to go to work and clean up after looters, people that should already know what it's like to go through this stuff, and then look at them as allies? The way I see it is they took the easy way out. All of us can go smash a window and take some TVs. How many looters do you think will actually show up to any of the demonstrations or help the victims family in anyway? My guess would be not many.
Sounds like pandering and strawman reactions, as they are obligated by law to respond accordingly to given situations -- overtly disregarding responding timely (what's reasonable) puts lives in danger and opens a hornet's nest of liability that would destroy any department. I need context on the given situation, if what you say if accurate.
Potato Marshal
Banned
We are the talking about the country with the black president right?
GalacticAE
Member
yea imagine the bullshit and abuse that never gets reported.
Understand who? People upset, afraid, angry by incidents like this... yes absolutely.
Some fool who breaks into a local store and robs it? How is that helping?
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Those crimes may be more uncommon but it seems the punishment for them (or just the actions that can lead to them) is extremely light. Look at all the banking CEOs that shat up the economy who ended up getting promotions and bonuses. Doesn't help the program(s) the Obama admin put in place to bring about reparations and repercussions were not very effective. It's disheartening to see how on-the-ball law enforcement and the judicial system is with minor infractions (particularly so with minorities) but how aloof and downright glacial they are with white-collar crimes.
The complexity of them shouldn't be an issue; the law is supposed to have the best and brightest among its ranks, regarding legal experts. They should be able to handle those cases better than they do. If anything it's bureaucratic red tape that makes everything a slow-moving mess.
Your problem is, you put too much faith in the political process. America's political system is phucked up at its core, in a very fundamental way. If disenfranchised citizens of any creed tried to take the "proper channels" to make real change for themselves in this country, they will not get a lot done. That's the reality. That's especially true if there are very few people like them on the other side of the matter (i.e in power), because an immediate sense of (superficial) relatability is now gone.
A lot of people are moreso apathetic because they realize the standardized process is not designed to benefit them, not without severe compromises that usually undermine the entire point. Just look at the joke that became Occupy Wall Street.
benjipwns
Banned
You may need to discuss this with the courts. They seem to have indicated otherwise. Castle Rock and Warren for example.
Black folks in America always quick to call themselves American when this nation has done a lot worst to them than making them pick up some broken glass. If folks are turning on their own over something like that then revolutionary education has failed them at that point.
The family don't need a protest. The best help you can give that family is revolutionary action and education. You saw(misguided) action in terms of the riot. Educate them and the potential is limitless in what change can be created.
I'd worry that there's a danger sufficient rioting will get the apathetic part of the nation demanding that rioters are shot on sight.
How many black men you know came out of a white woman's vagina(non sex related)? Real talk?
Again, it comes down to de-facto segregation in many of these situations where there is a "disproportionate" response to crime with respect to immutable characteristics. Again, amusingly, that same mantra is shown through male vs. female -- why do males commit the huge vast majority of crime? Are LEOs inherently sexist and overtly targeting males? No, that's silly. It comes down, in many ways, to ideas like the broken windows theory, and how hot spot oriented policing tend to focus on high crime areas which typically always tend to be areas dominated by low-income housing, and minority dominated areas. It's the nature of the game, and how socio-economics always has a role in crime. (That isn't to say middle class and above do not commit crime, as there is a hugely unreported classification of rapes/domestic violence/sexual abuse etc among such demographics).
Crime does not discriminate, it crosses all boundaries.
I have a black friend/president that means not racist!
The country where police officers consistently get away with assaulting and murdering black people, yeah.
Omegasquash
Member
I did not anticipate "But Obama is president!" being brought up without ironic intent. Thanks for exceeding my expectations in the worst ways!
To answer your question: Yes, the justice system can have widespread prejudice and unequal treatment on the basis of race even if we have a black president. Obama being in the White House does not place the entire country under the effects of a superanatural aura that nullifies all racism.
Is that why people hate the government so much now?
Holy christ! Are you actually serious?
Omegasquash
Member
Nah, but I bet it's got lots to do with why Congress won't let the President do a damn thing.
Indeed, and the reverse, imagine the lives saved and lives forever helped that never comes to light. You would be surprised at how far the simple notion of a sincere, tear involved, "thank you" goes.
Fair enough. Do you think there was ever a war on people in this country, based solely on their immutable characteristics?
So because our president is black, all racism disappears? Is that what you're saying?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Dems is jokes, doe..
I'm afraid we had to deploy lethal force against JoeInky after he attempted to throw one of our men far off a cliff
Why are you asking an irrelevant-baiting question? I do not live in the past, nor does my department. Hammering or living in the past clouds the present. It's time to move on.
So, the union telling officers to follow the rules and policy is an act of disregard? (Yes, I read the part on responding to calls for service... and that the hierarchy still applies if the urgency is there)
Where did you read the race of the officer?
Potato Marshal
Banned
I'm not sure where all you people are getting the idea that I think racism doesn't exist anymore in the country. I'm not quick to jump on to blame racism for anything that happens to a black person. Yes, police brutality is a serious issue, yes it's tragic what happened to the young man, I'm just saying I don't believe in some conspiracy where police officers around the country are shooting black people for no reason.
Nobody said it's a conspiracy. It's a conditioned response.
TheChocolateWar
Member
So because a vocal minority is having their stances voted down by the voting majority this necessarily equates to a manifest injustice in the system itself? Just because people are vocal does not make them the majority, or even carry enough weight to have their ideas adopted by a democracy.
You'd have a point if that wasn't exactly what has been happening.
Not sure if serious.
It's not a conspiracy as much as it is a fact of life.
A conspiracy isn't necessary, it's a disorganized phenomenon that exists on every level and continues to go unchecked.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
And that's the problem.
I'm not surprised.
It is quite relevant nor was it a bating question. The past does affect the present and to say it doesn't is ridiculous. I am asking for your opinion. It's a simple question.
What does Obama have to do with it?
That is not what most people here are arguing though.
Potato Marshal
Banned
If you're saying the police are subconsciously judging blacks as criminals, then do you really believe that looting is going to fix that image?
- Status