Support NeoGAF

[Tabris]

Thought I would post this for all the people that have quit FFXI and may be interested in playing again for a bit.

*pasted from article*

Part I of "Return Home to Vana'diel" is a special campaign just for players who have already unsubscribed from PlayOnline. For a limited time, we're issuing these players registration codes free of charge to allow them to come back to PlayOnline, play FINAL FANTASY XI, and even recover and play their old characters from before!

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/campaign/index.html

 

[Jonnyram]

Square = drug dealer

 

[heavy liquid]

They must have been hit hard from people moving on to Warcraft.

 

[Belfast]

Hmm...recovering my old character? Maybe....

 

[IJoel]

Fix the need for ridiculous farming and I'll consider it.

*shakes fist*

 

[Tabris]

Fix the need for ridiculous farming and I'll consider it.

*shakes fist*

I haven't farmed in like 6-9 months and I have 3 million+ liquid gil, perfect gear for 67 Paladin and Sunglasses!

There's many ways to make money in that game. Basic farming. BCNM's and ENM's are pretty huge for gil right now. Playing the AH. Crafting (huge investment costs though). NM camping. Fishing.

 

[IJoel]

I haven't farmed in like 6-9 months and I have 3 million+ liquid gil, perfect gear for 67 Paladin and Sunglasses!

There's many ways to make money in that game. Basic farming. BCNM's and ENM's are pretty huge for gil right now. Playing the AH. Crafting (huge investment costs though). NM camping. Fishing.

Sure, after you get to insanely high levels. I spent weeks farming at around level 32 to end up with a decent gear. Still needed more gil for spells. Mages are screwed double over the price of spells and the lack of ability to make gil out of them (other than the WHM's teleport.)

I camped that damned Spini Spipy for hours, and killed him probably 4-5 times. The bastard dropped just silk.

NEVER AGAIN!

 

[Foobar]

They must have been hit hard from people moving on to Warcraft.

Not from what I've seen, this is probably more of a response the the repeated toungue lashings SE got for deleting accounts that were unsubscribed and inactive after three months.

WoW fanboys can keep dreaming that all other MMORPGs took a big population hit due to WoW, but really, we just lost most of the morons and whiny pussies. We're totally endorsing WoW to the remaining village idiots on every server. We're working on getting the gold/plat/gilsellers to join them now.

 

[hooded pitohui]

I'm doing it. I had to delete my lv. 42 samurai because I was travelling abroad for 6 months with no access to my PS2. I'll probably end up getting Chains of Promathia as well.

 

[SaitoH]

FFXI was definitely a love/ hate thing for me. All it would take is a week of playing again to remind me exactly why I quit in the first place.

Filetmignon, 55 blm, forever retired.

^_~

PS. New games always seem to attract the "noisey" crowd, but they get bored and leave after a bit. WoW will be like any other MMO in that respect. Though, oddly/ luckily, I've very little problems.

 

[Tabris]

Sure, after you get to insanely high levels. I spent weeks farming at around level 32 to end up with a decent gear. Still needed more gil for spells. Mages are screwed double over the price of spells and the lack of ability to make gil out of them (other than the WHM's teleport.)

I camped that damned Spini Spipy for hours, and killed him probably 4-5 times. The bastard dropped just silk.

NEVER AGAIN!

You could do BCNM30's. Or you could farm while leveling your other jobs (Beechips, Crystals, Silk, etc can fetch you a decent price) and also get seals to do the BCNM's.

You could also just coast to 40 without great gear. You won't get any respect that way though. But then you can do a bunch of BCNM40's for a lot of gil.

 

[Ikse]

Scarily enough, i'm taking a break from WoW tonight to go and help some friends get their Beadeux coffer keys. Should be fun after hating the game with a passion with its annoying endgame

 

[Ferrio]

You could also just coast to 40 without great gear. You won't get any respect that way though. But then you can do a bunch of BCNM40's for a lot of gil.

That's a big problem with FFXI. You shouldn't be shunned cause you don't have great gear, but only if you're a bad player. The whole dependance on good gear in the game is overwhelming, no doubt to make up for the lack of skills at your disposal, so they had to make something in order to seperate good players from bad players.


Too bad they picked something that requires a huge timesink.

 

[Tabris]

You should honestly just do Quests for gil.

You're a White Mage IJoel. Your strongest "solo skill" at your level is free sneak/invis.

If I was your level, had no gil and needed gil to get the equipment to xp, I would just do questing. If you manage your time well, you can get them done pretty quick. Plus the little stories are actually kind of interesting.

 

[Alex]

There is a great dependancy on gear, yes, but the skill requirement is still there in the PvE group play. Kicks the shit out of WoW in that regard at least.

 

[SaitoH]

I'd say there is lots of skill required if you had to figure out what to do. I looked up charts to know what to MB with and charts for elemental weakness, then it was simply a matter of aggro management and knowing when to MB. I didn't find FFXI to be hard at all, just draining.

Actually, it would of been cool to play FFXI at JP launch, when everything wasn't dialed down to perfection.

^_~

 

[madara]

Hmm. If they added z-xis, actually made world immersive,where you could swim, not get blocked by one foot high rock(lol) and had special servers like RP or way to escape little ps2 tards and farmers I give it go. I get very strong feeling though nothing has changed with this game. Ack I just remembered how retard pc controls were as well. I wait for there next attempt at mmorpg I think.

 

[Alex]

Still, maintaining perfection is difficult and draining oft enough, yes?

As you probably are well aware, for as simplistic as it pretends to be on the top, and in the early stages, it evolves at an alarmingly large rate. And the evolution path never really stopped right up 'till the end. The subtle depth behind so much of the game is still what impresses me to this day, and despite that I don't play anymore, I was still learning new little bits up until the day I quit.

Party support, aggro management, typical roles, chains & bursts, all that good jazz while keeping it fast and fun rolling up the EXP chains was quite tricky, and it's something that had to come with a lot of pratice and time.

I'd say it is a difficult game, even moreso when comparing within genre. Warcraft is much more manageable and accessible, which are good traits, but it takes them to a severe fault. The grouping in WoW along with the PvE game on the whole really lacks vibrance and cohesion, IMHO.

Edit: Mad, if you don't think FFXI is a polished, immersive game within MMO's, then I'd be somewhat terrified to know what you think is. The game still has by far the best controls, physics, animation and by FAR the best lore, plotline (only in the genre, really) and sophisticated world design in the genre.

The game did control much better on a PS2 pad though, yes. Perfectly so, and no, I'd kill SE if they ever added RP servers.

 

[Catchpenny]

With the exception of skillchains, I think FFXI requires less skill in PvE. Difficulty and skill are not the same thing, and the party roles are limited even by MMO standards. Even skillchains aren't challenging once you know the chart, and get to the higher levels where almost everyone else does as well.

FFXI was a nice game when it came out in Japan, but was already behind the times when it launched in America and it's downright archaic now. It is about as relevant as Ultima Online. Going after former players is a good strategy, because I can't see how you would recommend this game to an MMO newbie at this point.

Edit: Just to add, I agree that WoW grouping often lacks the same cohesion and communication in groups, but that's due to the newness of the game rather than anything inherent with the gameplay. It will improve as people get more experienced, classes are rebalanced and bugs are removed.

 

[Alex]

It depends what you're comparing it to. I wouldn't reccomend it to many folks, no, but not because of content or whatnot, but because the game is extremely hardcore to a fault, and very much a timesink. It's feature set, challenge and overall design are still at the top of the genre.

As far as relevance, well, unless you're the new hotness in the MMO genre, you're never relevant.

If you mean my Warcraft comment, then no, I hearity disagree. With the exception of...nothing, Warcraft's PvE game is completely devoid of learning curve, risk vs reward, class cohesion or challenge on the whole, both in playing your class/job and versus the enemies you're presented with.

Let's just say as someone on a PvE server with a decent guild, I suffered no real emotion getting myself to 60 in WoW. Azeroth is handed to you on a platter, and the rewards and moments of glory just weren't there for me.

I dig the game, I still play WoW and not FFXI nowdays, but I find myself just messing with alts when I have the time waiting for Battlegrounds. IMHO WoW is a rather lousy PvE game, but an EXCELLENT PvP game.

few edits, also: my cohesion remark was largely due to how the classes function and mix in PvE, not commincation.

 

[SaitoH]

Still, maintaining perfection is difficult and draining oft enough, yes?

As you probably are well aware, for as simplistic as it pretends to be on the top, and in the early stages, it evolves at an alarmingly large rate. And the evolution path never really stopped right up 'till the end. The subtle depth behind so much of the game is still what impresses me to this day, and despite that I don't play anymore, I was still learning new little bits up until the day I quit.

Party support, aggro management, typical roles, chains & bursts, all that good jazz while keeping it fast and fun rolling up the EXP chains was quite tricky, and it's something that had to come with a lot of pratice and time.

I'd say it is a difficult game, even moreso when comparing within genre. Warcraft is much more manageable and accessible, which are good traits, but it takes them to a severe fault. The grouping in WoW along with the PvE game on the whole really lacks vibrance and cohesion, IMHO.

When you had a group that worked really well together, and the XP was rolling in, FFXI really shined. I don't get that in WoW ... not yet at least. Honestly though, I don't expect that kind of experience from a new game. Once the player base learns words like "aggro management" WoW will be good to go. lol.

On a side note: I'd be very interested in checking out a new MMO by Square. FFXI proved they have huge potential.

[edit] damn, I basically said what Catchpenny said. >_>

 

[Alex]

Well, I'm done with the PvE game, so that's kind of an issue. >:O

It's not really a skill thing though, it's game design. I keep trying to get my point and opinion across, but I'm failing I guess.

I'm also not trying to hammer on WoW, especially considering how much time I hang with you folks in the online forum topic, and that I'm still an active subscriber and really dig the game.

 

[SaitoH]

Let's just say as someone on a PvE server with a decent guild, I suffered no real emotion getting myself to 60 in WoW. Azeroth is handed to you on a platter, and the rewards and moments of glory just weren't there for me.

One big difference in WoW, is that you can trivialize pretty much all the content. Want easy xp, kill stuff a few levels below you. Want to make quests a joke, wait till they are green, or get a high level player to walk you through. Want to make instances a joke, be too high a level, or been in a high level group. Hell, you can make end game content easier, by simply doing instances like Stratholme, or Scholomance, as raids.

Point is, challenge is there, but you choose to make it hard, or easy. I've had many great moments. Beating Deadmines the first time, defeating Archaedas the first time, completing red quests on my own, getting my Barman Shanker by myself, etc.

^w^

 

[SaitoH]

Well, I'm done with the PvE game, so that's kind of an issue. >:O

It's not really a skill thing though, it's game design. I keep trying to get my point and opinion across, but I'm failing I guess.

I'm also not trying to hammer on WoW, especially considering how much time I hang with you folks in the online forum topic, and that I'm still an active subscriber and really dig the game.

I don't think you're trying to hammer on WoW. I'm just intrigued with MMOs and enjoy chatting about them. Besides, I used to love FFXI, and Filetmignon will probably always be one of my all time favourite MMO characters.

^_~

 

[Alex]

Yeah, that's part of my issue. The problem being it's all too common. Typical Instance parties start forming around the dungeons cap, that's actually almost a given.

Solo content is highly skewed based upon class.

As you hint at, some of this is fixed at cap by max level 5-man dungeons, these also pull the classes a little tighter together, although the game still lacks for group PvE mechanics greatly, IMO, but the other sections of the game make it forgiveable. Anyhow, the problem is for me...they're still not really very challenging. Just time consuming.

WoW's upper game loot tables also kinda blow, IMO. Also, high end loot just doesn't have the potency it should.

While I respect them looking out for the little guy, difficult to obtain equipment should fuckin' rock. I don't mind, however, if they opened up a plan to obtain slicker, and perhaps more potent class specific equipment in the future through incredibily difficult solo/duo/single party activities.

EQ-style raids are really dippy IMO anyhow, but I still go on 'em. =/

 

[Shouta]

Even good gear doesn't make up for lack of player skill as you get higher. @_@. Fucking decked out Melee DDs still doing crap damage and crap BLM/WHMs that don't know how to manage party healing/damage dealing. -_-.

FFXI is still the best group based MMO out there IMO. While there's very few obvious elements that you can control, there's a lot more subtlety to it. Timing, full usage of skills, and etc really make a difference in party play and very few people care to study that sort of thing within the context of the game. That's one of the few reasons why I'm still playing the game, underlying party mechanics. Learning how to improve my game is a subtle process and is infinitely more interesting to me than what most of the other MMOs have to offer at the moment.

If there's anything that needs fixing with FFXI's party system, it's the overreliance on traditional party setups and allowing more room to fiddle with interesting groups that are still viable as XP groups. There needs to be more unique reasons to have certain jobs in certain roles that aren't the norm and etc (such as a taru PLD/WHM instead of a WHM/BLM or something) in the cases where you can't get a normal person in that job.

 

[Alex]

My favorite part of WoW grouping is turning people down using the phrase "JP only".

 

[Tabris]

Timing, full usage of skills, and etc really make a difference in party play and very few people care to study that sort of thing within the context of the game.

Completly agree. Most players just don't get that. There's so many more actions you can take within the scope of timing, spiking and understanding hate management (the two applicable types, spike and gradual reduction and knowing when and how to use both). (at least for Paladin)

 

[Alex]

Learning to play a mid-high end FFXI Paladin perfectly is almost zen-like, kinda like Lumines. To be fair though, it is the most difficult job in FFXI.

Difficult, stressful and 100% attention required, but oh so smooth when things are going right.

Too bad WoW forever ruined their image. I had to park my FFXI PLD at 60, but a friend who I duo with and who took his FFXI PLD to 75 constantly BITCHES about how LAME the WoW Paladin is. Sorry, I have to hear it all the time, now you do too.

So much fun when a party in FFXI is going at 100% output. The classes all fit together like cogs, and everyone gets so excited as the EXP chain count starts rolling back up each time.

To put it simply, past the big evolution of the game, how the classes mesh, along with all the various chain systems (skill, burst, EXP), FFXI's more advanced ability management, and the fact that it doesn't have "get out of jail free cards" like WoW, and offers players a punishment for poor decisions unlike WoW is a lot of my point that I seemed to be unable to describe, Sai.

WoW is really a great game, I know I am coming off against it, but like I said, I currently play it and NOT FFXI so... I just wish it was a little more strict and a little more concious of group play.

 

[Catchpenny]

Getting to 60 and running tough instances successfully are not the same thing. I agree that it's easy to get to 60, and a lot of people don't learn much in the process. Hell, much of the actual leveling is done solo. That doesn't mean they can breeze through an instance without skill. Classes are more versatile, so if you're smart and can think on the fly, you can survive and conquer a bad situation that seems impossible. Again, this does not suggest a lack of skill to me.

Point is, challenge is there, but you choose to make it hard, or easy. I've had many great moments. Beating Deadmines the first time, defeating Archaedas the first time, completing red quests on my own, getting my Barman Shanker by myself, etc.

If there's anything that needs fixing with FFXI's party system, it's the overreliance on traditional party setups and allowing more room to fiddle with interesting groups that are still viable as XP groups. There needs to be more unique reasons to have certain jobs in certain roles that aren't the norm and etc (such as a taru PLD/WHM instead of a WHM/BLM or something) in the cases where you can't get a normal person in that job.

These are excellent points, and are articulated better than I could have managed. You can hit the cap in WoW without much of a challenge, but the game won't be as rewarding if done that way. Having groups sit around waiting for the final, perfect member in FFXI was always a turnoff for me.

Also, I probably came off as harsh on FFXI in my earlier post. While I don't have any desire to go back to it, I played FFXI for about nine months and had a blast. It was the first MMO to get my attention since early UO.

Alex is right about the fun of EXP chains. That's something I miss.

 

[Tabris]

I understand most people's problem is waiting for a party.

You guys should all buy PSP's or GBA's and just play that until the party is ready to go.

 

[IJoel]

Parties in FFXI >>>>> Parties in WoW

Seriously, had it not been for the boring time consuming gil gathering activities, I'd still be playing FFXI. For all its faults, it's great party based mechanics.

Oh, and Tabris, I was a BLM33/WHM16 at the time I stopped playing. Actually about THF7 too, since I was hoping to get Treasure Hunter for farming, but got far too boring and had spent already like 3 weeks just farming and not progressing, level-wise.

 

[Shouta]

I like WoW's Paladin myself but it lacks the polish it should have. It has tons of unique abilities but never is focused enough to make them unique in those regards. It feels like a hodgepodge of abilities that are meshed together rather than a well-designed and flexible class. Combine that with WoW's very unmanageable party mechanics (It's very hard to gauge things like aggro and the ebb/flow of battle comes at a pace that's uncontrollable IMO) and it's somewhat unappealing to play Paladin in the game.

Then again, PLD in FFXI has its own issues. It's the only defense-focused job in the game and thus gets put into the tank role. Then, we're given the ability to use some of the most Powerful weaponskills in the game but no real outlet to unleash it offensively (in most instances). I enjoy being a tank but designing a class where everyone pidgeonholes you into only tanking is a bit inane from a design standpoint. This problem also extends to people playing PLD who think PLDs can't deal some damage or can't tank in ways that are different from massive damage reduction -_-.

Oh and most classes really need a more active party element to them instead of just being cogs. I'd like to see certain jobs get new abilities in the future that enhance the party in different manners to improve the party aspect of the game even more.

 

[SaitoH]

To put it simply, past the big evolution of the game, how the classes mesh, along with all the various chain systems (skill, burst, EXP), FFXI's more advanced ability management, and the fact that it doesn't have "get out of jail free cards" like WoW, and offers players a punishment for poor decisions unlike WoW is a lot of my point that I seemed to be unable to describe, Sai.

I understand what you're saying and this is why a game like FFXI -and the other major MMOs- will continue in spite of WoWs arrival. They offer a different experience. I've discovered that WoW has what I want out of an MMO.

^w^

 

[Alex]

Hahaha, yeah. That's a good point, but that is honestly unacceptable game design for a lot of folks, however it is something that never personally bothered me. I was fine with the perfectionist and timesink gig the game forced you into. FFXI had a LOT going for it, it is afterall my favorite game, but it was hardcore to a fault. It's certainly not for everyone.

That's precisely why Warcraft is popular. If you haven't tried it, it is obscenely easy to get into. You can solo your entire level set, you can duo with a friend for your entire level sets, anything can group together, ect. As I've mentioned it is to a fault, IMO, and hurts certain aspects of the game badly. But the payoff is worth it for more casual people who want to get into the genre.

FFXI's wait times was almost solely a job skew thing. WoW has many shades of it to, but prior to end game offers countless op's to work around them.

I don't think FFXI, or XI-2, whatever happens, should adapt this nature. I'd just like to see some FORM of solo/duo play for short bursts, killing time while seeking, ect. FFXI's party strictness is reinforced by how the jobs are made to fit together like pieces of a puzzle, whereas WoW's operate like seperate entities.

 

[Alex]

Shouta, I don't know how far you played WoW Paladin, but just lemme tell you, from a bystanders point of view as someone who helped build a friends Paladin up until the very end; they're a very awkward, hamfisted class at times.

The only real thing to say is; never pick one if you intend to tank. It takes a party supporting you for a Paladin to tank, and WoW's community is currently incapable of that.

Also, keep in mind Paladin has changed heavily in this short period of retail. They've been nerfed several times.

It's a cool class on some levels, but has a bad rep currently because people are simply absurdly poor players in WoW (and because there's a metric ton of 'em running around).

Paladin, though, IMO is basicly the ultimate support hybrid, compared to a Shamans pure hybrid, and a Druids role filler hybrid.

You will always hope and pray to land a competent Paladin in each party on the alliance side. But for the most part, it's a psuedo RDM & WHM mixture with supreme survivability and somewhat passable melee skills, despite having the lowest damage in the game.

I'll never play as one though, i swapped off my main with my partner long ago. I'm Horde for life now.

 

[SaitoH]

FFXI's party strictness is reinforced by how the jobs are made to fit together like pieces of a puzzle, whereas WoW's operate like seperate entities.

Exactly right. Guess that's the problem with designing a game for both solo and group play. Wonder how much Blizzard will be able to tweak group dynamics?

 

[Shouta]

I played Paladin through about 30. I know the class pretty well from what I played heh. It's a nasty hodgepodge of skills that really need focus to be a much better class overall. I have no doubt that's true for the class through 60. On the other hand, it's a great class for solo/duoing IMO, just not up to snuff for a party at the moment.

 

[Foobar]

If there's anything that needs fixing with FFXI's party system, it's the overreliance on traditional party setups and allowing more room to fiddle with interesting groups that are still viable as XP groups. There needs to be more unique reasons to have certain jobs in certain roles that aren't the norm and etc (such as a taru PLD/WHM instead of a WHM/BLM or something) in the cases where you can't get a normal person in that job.

Well, that problems stems from various things, one big factor being forums where high level players denounce anything other than the way they did things and noobs completely obeying them. Then again, some people came from other MMOs and played this game no differently than those other MMOs.

But truth be told, some of the more exotic job combinations, such as DRG/WHM, just eventually lose all damage potential. But team up a RDM and DRG/WHM post 60 w/ Drachen Armet and you have the most MP efficient healing team in the game, but without great accuracy gear, the DRG ain't gonna hit the broadside of a barn and will do less than stellar damage when he does.

Some jobs were fashioned to go together and some just don't match up at all. DRK/BLM and BLM/SMN has great potential in the hands of a Tarutaru, but to those that see the game as a time investment, its a liability and DRK/WAR and BLM/WHM are better insurance.

I've always been one to play the game a little backwards, though, Melee Tarus and Galka Mages and whatnot. The exploration and experiementation has a place in the game, I don't think SE would have made various jobs compatible otherwise, but players also have to consider being flexible to a PTs needs.

 

[Alex]

It's the opposite now, it's actually rather poor for soloing IMHO due to the severe damage reductions it took. There's only one build to currently provide even mediocre damage, and I'm not a fan of it due to the stats it needs to spec in.

I think it works wonderfully in a party, however. Very capable healing, excellent buffs, great survivability that can extend to party members, it's a real force with Eagle based gear(STA/INT).

Does a good job furthering the groups pace in PvE and providing extra lives in PvP.

Also, this has to be the most civil MMO discussion ever.

 

[B'z-chan]

I loved wow i got my PLD up to 42 before retiring him in November. I was just sick of having to put parties together and farm. It felt more like a job. Oh hi bob, how we going to defeat such and such tonight.

Yeah it was a nice fun social environment. And i loved it infact i miss it a little. But the fact is that WoW won me over, if not for its easy soloing ability but by its purely simple nature. I was a great tank, but didnt feel as if i was doing all that i could. WoW makes me feel like i can do all that i could and more.

The only thing is that i'm already 24 in less than a month on WoW. It took me 4 months plus to do that on FFXI. Just cause of the people on Sylph. Not a lot of people would play after 10pm so you'd spend hours looking for parties. It drove me insane.

I wonder if i deleted my account or if they just stoped charing me. Cause if they did the later i might try it again and pick it back up. If they killed it i'm gonna scream cause i put a lot of work into my character almost 72 days i played in the game from March to November of 2004.

To any sylphers out there love ya and peace out.

 

[Shouta]

Well, that problems stems from various things, one big factor being forums where high level players denounce anything other than the way they did things. Then again, some people came from other MMOs and played this game no differently that those other MMOs.

But truth be told, some of the more exotic job combinations, such as DRG/WHM, just eventually lose all damage potential. But team up a RDM and DRG/WHM post 60 w/ Drachen Armet and you have the most MP efficient healing team in the game, but without great accuracy gear, the DRG ain't gonna hit the broadside of a barn and will do less than stellar damage when he does.

Some jobs were fashioned to go together and some just don't match up at all. DRK/BLM and BLM/SMN has great potential in the hands of a Tarutaru, but to those that see the game as a time investment, its a liability and DRK/WAR and BLM/WHM are better insurance.

I've always been one to play the game a little backwards, though, Melee Tarus and Galka Mages and whatnot. The exploration and experiementation has a place in the game, I don't think SE would have made various jobs compatible otherwise, but players also have to consider being flexible to a PTs needs.

That brings us to the other inherent problem with FFXI, its asshat community which is working against everything the FFXI team setup. :lol

There are some interesting combos in the game (DRG/WHM with a RDM for example) but there needs to be a better incentive for people to use it in the game and SE really needs to promote that. They need to give class combinations a unique bonus so you'd see them more in battle.

It's been going in the opposite direction as of late but the resistance from the community is still pretty strong overall.

 

[Ferrio]

I played Paladin through about 30. I know the class pretty well from what I played heh. It's a nasty hodgepodge of skills that really need focus to be a much better class overall. I have no doubt that's true for the class through 60. On the other hand, it's a great class for solo/duoing IMO, just not up to snuff for a party at the moment.

How is a paladin not up to snuff in a party?

 

[Rorschach]

That brings us to the other inherent problem with FFXI, its asshat community which is working against everything the FFXI team setup. :lol

Exactly. FFXI is a great game and I love it, but the community killed it for me.

About gear: the community doesn't place great importance on gear for mages in the 30s for mages. Hell, I was nearing 50 and seeing black mages with low level gear. Mages used to get away with a lot when I was playing regularly. I don't see why a taru whm would be constantly farming in their 30s. Especially with BCNM around. I never farmed past 40 with my Ranger. I can't bring myself to ever farm again.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Paladins (WoW) *are* up to snuff for party, just not in the way people want to use them.

 

[Shouta]

I just don't see WoW Paladins having a proper niche for themselves in a small party enviroment (which I meant by up to snuff). Their abilities don't focus enough to give them a really essential reason to ask for their abilities. They only fight somewhat decently, they only heal decently, and their support abilities don't tailor themselves extremely well to provide a unique support role. I think most of the alliance classes are unique enough that they can mesh well together in varying degrees however Paladins just aren't in that spot IMO.

It's not like Paladins can't work in parties (they indeed do) but there just isn't a large enough incentive to put them in that spot IMO and there just isn't enough uniqueness for them.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"They only fight somewhat decently, they only heal decently, and their support abilities don't tailor themselves extremely well to provide a unique support role."

They fight decently and they heal decently. That's their purpose. A hybrid, part damage, part support. It's no different than Shamans, except shamans are more focused on magic than melee.

 

[Shouta]

Hybrid != lack of uniqueness.

Just because they're hybrids doesn't mean they shouldn't be unique (they have unique skills, they just aren't focused enough to make them standout IMO).

 

[Ikse]

My god, just finished with a night of FFXI coffer key hunting and I've never been so bored in my life. The game just makes everything long winded and a chore - hopefully not going back to that in a hurry, I'm glad I did more than enough in that game, so I dont have to go back to it every again. It's really not flattering after playing WoW, even if it is heaven for group PvE.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Wow, if they recover my character i might jump back in, i wonder if it has changed for the better or the worst in the fairy community. I'll only recover my elvaan lvl ~27 (or 28?) warrior though, naked, since i gave all my armor and money to darkshire, and the thought of farming gil to buy back all my armor, weapon and so on, is a nightmare by itself ;_;