Support NeoGAF

[Pancake Mix]

They're struggling to get that engine to work properly with modern consoles so I imagine UE4 will be what they stick with as a lot of Japanese devs will have a lot of experience with that engine and it seems to be working well with KH3, DQXI, and FF7:R.
It's a shame that they spent so much time and money trying to make proprietary engines and they were both kind of sub par. With their reputation for high end visuals and how much money they spend on graphics you'd think they could get a competent engine up and running. The Fox Engine seems like it would've been pretty good for SE since it's capable of handling open world games at 1080p 60fps and it has some really nice looking cutscenes.

Yeah I don't think Luminous will be used again, I'd throw SO:I&F into the SE UE4 pile as well, even though it's outsourced like the rest of the series to Tri-Ace. Square Enix definitely likes the engine for their Japanese games going forward.

Anyways, I'm tired of MGSV being held up as some sort of pillar of console achievement:

MGSV's cross-gen roots showed. I could point out about a billion low-res textures and jagged, low-poly edges in certain screenshots of the Afghanistan portion of the game. I'm sick of it being used in comparison when it's only 1080/60 FPS due to a lack of fidelity.

Also, there'd be no point using the Fox Engine because SE has an UE4 licence, they don't want to be dealing with an engine from Konami as well. Besides, SE must have spent a lot of time on their own in-house engine and they're going to try to make it run as well as it can. Ultimately, it's an ambitious game, more ambitious than MGSV which isn't really a fair comparison.

 

[Frumix]

People are praising FF13 graphics now, wow chika wow wow, you all need to take your crazy pills.
When was the last time you looked at Lightning's hands?
Also, pretty much every level sans gran pulse is a small box with flat backgrounds doing its best to take low angles and convince you there's actually stuff outside of the small level box going on (there isn't), battle scenes are even worse and it's all incredibly obvious on PC.

 

[wmlk]

People are praising FF13 graphics now, wow chika wow wow, you all need to take your crazy pills.
When was the last time you looked at Lightning's hands?
Also, pretty much every level sans gran pulse is a small box with flat backgrounds doing its best to take low angles and convince you there's actually stuff outside of the small level box going on (there isn't), battle scenes are even worse and it's all incredibly obvious on PC.

I think you mean meow meow choco chow.

 

[Gbraga]

People are praising FF13 graphics now, wow chika wow wow, you all need to take your crazy pills.
When was the last time you looked at Lightning's hands?
Also, pretty much every level sans gran pulse is a small box with flat backgrounds doing its best to take low angles and convince you there's actually stuff outside of the small level box going on (there isn't), battle scenes are even worse and it's all incredibly obvious on PC.

I think it looks amazing.

Blew my mind when I first played it at 4K on PC.

 

[Asd202]

Yeah I don't think Luminous will be used again,

I think Tabata team so the XV team will use it again for their next game.

 

[Pancake Mix]

People are praising FF13 graphics now, wow chika wow wow, you all need to take your crazy pills.
When was the last time you looked at Lightning's hands?
Also, pretty much every level sans gran pulse is a small box with flat backgrounds doing its best to take low angles and convince you there's actually stuff outside of the small level box going on (there isn't), battle scenes are even worse and it's all incredibly obvious on PC.

Final Fantasy XIII is the pinnacle of visual achievement on dedicated hardware when it released in Japan in 2009. That Lightning's arm is strangely hexogonal and other imperfections doesn't mean that much when we're talking about 2009. That it looked that good was helped by its mostly corridor (leaving aside Chapter 11) gameplay though, which isn't comparable to FFXV. People saying it looks better than XV are being hyperbolic, I agree.

I think Tabata team so the XV team will use it again for their next game.

Maybe, only time will tell. If so, it should be easier to optimize next time.

 

[Philippo]

I think Luminous will be used again, but it will be put on hold for the rest of the gen until much more powerful machines come around the corner.

So i think they'll probably use UE4 for the rest of the gen, FFXVI included.

Doesn't help FFXV starts in an empty desert, instead of something more scenic like The Hanging Edge/Bresha in FFXIII. It's a pretty boring, quiet area, but I guess that was the intention. It reminds me of Thanalan in FFXIV 1.0 in a way, it could do with some landmarks to break up the scenery like how Xenoblade X did it

Well we have these, it's just something that we haven't seen in a while.

 

[KupoNut]

Doesn't help FFXV starts in an empty desert, instead of something more scenic like The Hanging Edge/Bresha in FFXIII. It's a pretty boring, quiet area, but I guess that was the intention. It reminds me of Thanalan in FFXIV 1.0 in a way, it could do with some landmarks to break up the scenery like how Xenoblade X did it

 

[James Scott]

Yeah I don't think Luminous will be used again, I'd throw SO:I&F into the SE UE4 pile as well, even though it's outsourced like the rest of the series to Tri-Ace. Square Enix definitely likes the engine for their Japanese games going forward.

Anyways, I'm tired of MGSV being held up as some sort of pillar of console achievement:

MGSV's cross-gen roots showed. I could point out about a billion low-res textures and jagged, low-poly edges in certain screenshots of the Afghanistan portion of the game. I'm sick of it being used in comparison when it's only 1080/60 FPS due to a lack of fidelity.

Also, there'd be no point using the Fox Engine because SE has an UE4 licence, they don't want to be dealing with an engine from Konami as well. Besides, SE must have spent a lot of time on their own in-house engine and they're going to try to make it run as well as it can. Ultimately, it's an ambitious game, more ambitious than MGSV which isn't really a fair comparison.

MGSV is 1080p 60fps and looks better than XV in most places and, as you said it's a cross gen project. It also allows for giant enemies and set pieces which would fit XV quite well. The game has been downgrades from assets to IQ quite a bit because it can't run decently so Fox Engine could've helped not to mention that XV is also a game whose roots started in the previous generation.
UE4 is probably as good as they need it to be for their projects, but I'm just saying that it's possible for a japanese studio to make a very good studio that doesn't have to sacrifice image quality and performance.

 

[Pancake Mix]

MGSV is 1080p 60fps and looks better than XV in most places and, as you said it's a cross gen project. It also allows for giant enemies and set pieces which would fit XV quite well. The game has been downgrades from assets to IQ quite a bit because it can't run decently so Fox Engine could've helped not to mention that XV is also a game whose roots started in the previous generation.
UE4 is probably as good as they need it to be for their projects, but I'm just saying that it's possible for a japanese studio to make a very good studio that doesn't have to sacrifice image quality and performance.

Here's MGSV on PS4

Ocelot has hexagonal bullets:
Barebones: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-metal-gear-solid-5-phantom-pain-face-off


Now compare that with a pre-release demo of FFXV: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-final-fantasy-15-platinum-demo-tech-analysis

MGSV does not look better. Cleaner for sure, but also barren, filled with low-res textures, and scenery starved for polygons is more like it. Both games will have similar scale in most enviroments too so it's not like scale can be the excuse for MGSV. The fact is that MGSV was a 60 FPS game on PS4, and looked that way.

Edit: Eurogamer doesn't allow any hotlinking I guess, sigh. Replaced with the article links.

 

[SavoyPrime]

Curious question, were you onboard beforehand? Or are you the type person who waits for positive reviews to buy a game?

* hope that doesn't come across as snarky or rude which is not my intent XD

I ask because I've noticed a lot of gaffers lately saying in different threads " waiting for reviewers" or "impressions from other members" it's gets me wondering if a bunch of folks get swept because of the word of the mouth on the next big game or hype despite not being their type of game or otherwise interested in. Generally curious.

Usually I go off how I feel about it. But good/great reviews and feedback helps. I loved Versus XIII, then that faded when it seemed like the game was never coming out. Then got excited again when it showed up at E3. Then lost hope when I found out Tabata was leading the project (was not a fan of FF Type 0). But then was back on board once again when I read Game Informer's cover story and it sounded like it might be worth my time. But then the E3 demo tragedy, footage I've seen since then, and now this thread has me signing off. I've never been this back-and-forth about a game ever lol

 

[Akainu]

Everybody, watch this clip of an interview with Vanille's VA about the squeaks and moans she had to do, haha:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsSY4svjABA&feature=youtu.be&t=3m30s

It's like one of my japanese pornevermind.

 

[Mediking]

Bruh...

Lol honestly, I just can't wait to bro out with all the bros. The bro cast gets shit on a lot enough but people really shouldn't sleep on the bros. Who knows, they may surprise you.

As long as the brotherly theme doesn't become an eyesore and overdone... it should be a good time.

 

[James Scott]

Here's MGSV on PS4

Ocelot has hexagonal bullets:
Barebones: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-metal-gear-solid-5-phantom-pain-face-off


Now compare that with a pre-release demo of FFXV: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-final-fantasy-15-platinum-demo-tech-analysis

MGSV does not look better. Cleaner for sure, but also barren, filled with low-res textures, and scenery starved for polygons is more like it. Both games will have similar scale in most enviroments too so it's not like scale can be the excuse for MGSV. The fact is that MGSV was a 60 FPS game on PS4, and looked that way.

Edit: Eurogamer doesn't allow any hotlinking I guess, sigh. Replaced with the article links.

I'm not saying MGSV is a technical marvel and I know games like Uncharted 4 look better, but I'm comparing two japanese made games on two japanese made engines with similar scope/scale. MGSV's more appealing to the eyes in most cases even if XV has its own impressive moments (which is why I said "most" and not always).
Also, the Platinum Demo is clearly a tech demo made to show off lighting and the game's graphics. It's a mostly linear adventure outside of the big room which has some low resolution textures.
In either case I'm talking about the engine being used. Despite being a cross gen title, MGSV manages to render 1080p and 60fps. FFXV struggles too look as nice as MGSV and its resolution (in that Platinum demo you linked to) drops to below 900p in fight sequences with sub 30fps dips on PS4 and sub 20 on X1. For a game using an action game combat system, frame rate is pretty important to make the game feel good.
As for the bloded, cleaner image can result in a better image overall:

 

[KupoNut]

As for the bloded, cleaner image can result in a better image overall:

That is just painful to look at given how that portion of FFXV is probably polished and won't change very much.

 

[James Scott]

That is just painful to look at given how that portion of FFXV is probably polished and won't change very much.

Also strange that it's a very slow section where they give you free camera control expecting you to look around since you can't do anything else.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

The endless MGS V comparisons. Yes, the engine is better. However, XV is a much bigger world and its highs are much greater. Plus, it's an RPG

 

[Toparaman]

The endless MGS V comparisons. Yes, the engine is better. However, XV is a much bigger world and its highs are much greater.

Based on? Have you played XV from start to finish?

 

[SoulUnison]

The endless MGS V comparisons. Yes, the engine is better. However, XV is a much bigger world and its highs are much greater. Plus, it's an RPG

"Yes the engine is better, but XV is [CITATION NEEDED] and [CITATION NEEDED]."

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

More Prompto.

 

[Servbot24]

I'm not saying MGSV is a technical marvel

I will say that it is. I don't know if I've ever seen better lighting in a game.

 

[Maintenance]

MGSV was amazing, warts and all. It ran like a dream and looked pretty too.

But to me the best part was the gameplay, that was perfect.

 

[Tyaren]

Doesn't help FFXV starts in an empty desert, instead of something more scenic like The Hanging Edge/Bresha in FFXIII. It's a pretty boring, quiet area, but I guess that was the intention. It reminds me of Thanalan in FFXIV 1.0 in a way, it could do with some landmarks to break up the scenery like how Xenoblade X did it

That is actually one of my biggest complaints about the world design of FFXV. We'd be all much more lenient with the poor technical side of the world if it's design was a bit more interesting. Duscae takes the right direction with the huge stone arches and the crystal shard...

It's a cool looking landmark that draws your gaze in awe and sparks the spirit of adventure. The desert however looks incredibly plain and uninteresting...

They could've done more with this. More unique/crazy rock formations, maybe carved out giant statues/titans by an ancient civilization or an impressive canyon would have been great and geological . A canyon would have fit the worldbuilding and gamedesign too. Coming from Insomnia the world begins as sort of a tunnel anyway, which is then widening up like a funnel until it transitions into the wide and hilly Duscae landscapes. Instead of these measly just a few meter high unnatural walls, that are meant to keep you within the boundaries...

...make it a real canyon!

It's way more interesting, logical and less obvious of a boundary.

 

[injurai]

More Prompto.

 

[Poimandres]

Yeesh, it definitely looks a bit rough mostly due to the IQ. I think it should look quite a lot better on PC.

 

[Dmax3901]

He did say there are important narrative reasons why Noctis is no longer in the city when it's attacked. Curious to see what those reasons are.

Maybe the city isn't invaded at all it's just something to give Noctis a kick in the ass. Or maybe Regis is the empire all along. Or Regis is the Regalia and that's why it fails at the start cause it's like his legs. Poetry.

See this is one of the biggest appeals for me, just jolly shenanigans on an adventure with your friends.

I'm in the same boat, so I have some questions...

Progressive or not I can say as someone who lives in the midwest I've totally seen women dress similar to Cindy in the spring and summer times. Cindy's outfit is kind of the more extreme version but I do see that look. I'm with you in that it looks ridiculous but there are real world examples of Cindy's look, so at the very least they're not completely pulling it out of their ass.

So has it ever been confirmed if stuff from Episode Duscae and the Platinum demo are in the main game? Also, with stuff like the anime included do we have an idea as to what the FFXV timeline looks like right now?

Based on what I have heard about this game it sounds like you'll be waiting awhile for a PC release. Also, based on all the rumors about Neo it sounds like this game will eventually just get a patch that optimizes it for PS4 Neo.

The difference being the women you've seen have chosen to dress that way, Cindy was designed by a man (I'm willing to bet). Let's make the character artists wear thongs up above their short shorts so they will literally be pulling it out of their ass.

Haven't played previous demos so I can't comment. And yeah I may be getting a review copy of this so I may not be able to wait for PC.

That is actually one of my biggest complaints about the world design of FFXV. We'd be all much more lenient with the poor technical side of the world if it's design was a bit more interesting. Duscae takes the right direction with the huge stone arches and the crystal shard...

So that's the area you drive through on your way to Lestallum, and that crystal structure in the distance is where Ardyn is going to take you in his pimpmobile when the demo ended. I can tell you that almost everything about the above shot looks different to what I played. The DOF, lighting, reflections on the water, LOD on the crystal thing itself... all look way better in that shot.

 

[wmlk]

Someone freeze me until the PC release.

 

[Falk]

People are praising FF13 graphics now, wow chika wow wow, you all need to take your crazy pills.
When was the last time you looked at Lightning's hands?

i mean the entire credits song were about them

Spoiler

don't hurt me for this intentional misinterpretation

 

[sappyday]

Maybe the city isn't invaded at all it's just something to give Noctis a kick in the ass. Or maybe Regis is the empire all along. Or Regis is the Regalia and that's why it fails at the start cause it's like his legs. Poetry.



See this is one of the biggest appeals for me, just jolly shenanigans on an adventure with your friends.



The difference being the women you've seen have chosen to dress that way, Cindy was designed by a man (I'm willing to bet). Let's make the character artists wear thongs up above their short shorts so they will literally be pulling it out of their ass.

Haven't played previous demos so I can't comment. And yeah I may be getting a review copy of this so I may not be able to wait for PC.



So that's the area you drive through on your way to Lestallum, and that crystal structure in the distance is where Ardyn is going to take you in his pimpmobile when the demo ended. I can tell you that almost everything about the above shot looks different to what I played. The DOF, lighting, reflections on the water, LOD on the crystal thing itself... all look way better in that shot.

The performance was really bad though

 

[Frumix]

i mean the entire credits song were about them

Spoiler

don't hurt me for this intentional misinterpretation

 

[wmlk]

Now I'm imagining some AMV with all the scenes featuring Lightning's hands from the character model.

 

[Tyaren]

So that's the area you drive through on your way to Lestallum, and that crystal structure in the distance is where Ardyn is going to take you in his pimpmobile when the demo ended. I can tell you that almost everything about the above shot looks different to what I played. The DOF, lighting, reflections on the water, LOD on the crystal thing itself... all look way better in that shot.

Yes, that is a shot of the Duscae Demo from last year. Here are a few shots that I took in different lighting scenarios (there were no PNGs available back then, so sorry for the compression):

It is sad to hear that they downgraded the lighting and with it so much of the initial atmosphere. And it's sad that some in here, that played Duscae and that have seen the new footage, still deny a downgrade happened.

 

[Maintenance]

Yes, that is a shot of the Duscae Demo from last year. Here are a few shots that I took:

It is sad to hear that they downgraded the lighting and with it so much of the initial atmosphere. And it's sad that some in here, that played Duscae and that have seen the new footage, still deny a downgrade happened.

Man, it looked so good (lighting).

 

[Byvar]

They could've done more with this. More unique/crazy rock formations, maybe carved out giant statues/titans by an ancient civilization or an impressive canyon would have been great and geological . A canyon would have fit the worldbuilding and gamedesign too. Coming from Insomnia the world begins as sort of a tunnel anyway, which is then widening up like a funnel until it transitions into the wide and hilly Duscae landscapes. Instead of these measly just a few meter high unnatural walls, that are meant to keep you within the boundaries...

Like the canyon and collapsed roads that were present in the Versus XIII version of what looks to be the same or a very similar area, which also didn't suffer from flat world syndrome as much.
It would be cool to see how that would look with the same level of detail as FFXV now has.
The top concept art here also has some cool rocks (cooler than the one they shared on twitter a while back!), but unless we're getting multiple desert areas they haven't been implemented.

 

[Falk]

There are a lot of other subtle differences too, all of which draw eyes away from problematic parts of the IQ in Duscae:

- Camera is generally much closer to Noctis, drawing more attention to the party
- Vignette 'simulates' vision and draws attention towards center of screen
- internally resized resolution adding a little bit of smear to everything, which helps mask LOD issues in the distance. Kind of like a naturally occurring DOF.

Incidentally, all three were oft-requested changes from feedback for Duscae, even if they made for a more cohesive composition/screenshot. Things like moving the camera away were... kinda necessary for obvious reasons.

I posted this particular screen a few times, but it -is- from the master build. It's the exact same area and about maybe 30secs, 1min away from where people are posting "PS1 trees lol" screenshots from.

Hiding or drawing attention away from IQ issues goes a long way.

 

[Tyaren]

Like the canyon and collapsed roads that were present in the Versus XIII version of what looks to be the same or a very similar area, which also didn't suffer from flat world syndrome as much.
It would be cool to see how that would look with the same level of detail as FFXV now has.
The top concept art here also has some cool rocks (cooler than the one they shared on twitter a while back!), but unless we're getting multiple desert areas they haven't been implemented.

They might have taken a few too many pictures of actual rocks and in the wake lost some of their own imagination. :/
Yeah, the Versus XIII footage looks actually more impressive and interesting, even though it ran on a PS3.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Good thing Luna has a whining barrier prepared for DOF complaints.

At the end of the day, this is thus far the only game to use the Luminous Studio engine and there's clearly been some trouble with it. But FFXV was designed with high-end assets from the start and I'm going to have to disagree with James Scott about MGSV, which I think looks worse even then some of the most unflattering screenshots of a game that might still be optimized with more than two months to go. IQ may be worse and there are some DOF issues in FFXV, but the assets are clearly of a far higher quality than MGSV, just look at the scar and imperfections on Luna's face here. MGSV is a game which, very often had low-poly items close up. It looks great for what it is, but that's a game that had to hit 1080/60 fps, and it does look the part.

FFXV's assets since the reboot in development don't look like they'd be workable on last gen at all. The game has more modern ambitions, and again, Square Enix delayed this game two months and until after Black Friday in the US/Canada, possibly to make sure the game is significantly optimized on PS4 and XB1. If it were just to include what would have been a day 1 patch then you'd think it would be earlier in November at the latest. Apparently they're adding content too, but I think they're going to try to push the OG PS4 and XB1 to their limits as best as they can. Don't get me wrong, it won't be perfect visually, but it's an incredibly ambitious game all the same.

 

[raven777]

new image from official twitter

 

[sappyday]

Gen looks great

 

[vainglorious]

Good thing Luna has a whining barrier prepared for DOF complaints.

At the end of the day, this is thus far the only game to use the Luminous Studio engine and there's clearly been some trouble with it. But FFXV was designed with high-end assets from the start and I'm going to have to disagree with James Scott about MGSV, which I think looks worse even then some of the most unflattering screenshots of a game that might still be optimized with more than two months to go. IQ may be worse and there are some DOF issues in FFXV, but the assets are clearly of a far higher quality than MGSV, just look at the scar and imperfections on Luna's face here. MGSV is a game which, very often had low-poly items close up. It looks great for what it is, but that's a game that had to hit 1080/60 fps, and it does look the part.

FFXV's assets since the reboot in development don't look like they'd be workable on last gen at all. The game has more modern ambitions, and again, Square Enix delayed this game two months and until after Black Friday in the US/Canada, possibly to make sure the game is significantly optimized on PS4 and XB1. If it were just to include what would have been a day 1 patch then you'd think it would be earlier in November at the latest. Apparently they're adding content too, but I think they're going to try to push the OG PS4 and XB1 to their limits as best as they can. Don't get me wrong, it won't be perfect visually, but it's an incredibly ambitious game all the same.

No they are not. The game is content/feature complete. The delay is for the patch and getting the latter half the game up to snuff with the beginning sections. That's it. Future content is only being done as DLC.

 

[Maintenance]

Luna looks bad, especially after that gif.

 

[injurai]

new image from official twitter

Is it just me or does her face structure look different now?

She looks slightly more western than I remember her being.

 

[Pancake Mix]

No they are not. The game is content/feature complete. The delay is for the patch and getting the latter half the game up to snuff with the beginning sections. That's it. Future content is only being done as DLC.

You're wrong. They are done the master version, but they're going to add a little more content for the release as well.

Here's the time stamp of Tabata saying as much: https://youtu.be/Wepgwx_9kto?t=4m25s

The disc that is going on sale on the 29th of November, will contain everything that was scheduled to be in the day one patch, as well as some extra things on top of that.

Is it just me or does her face structure look different now?

She looks slightly more western than I remember her being.

I mean, she always looked Western frankly, but it seems that way:

Noticed it too and it looks way better now, imo. Subtle but effective change.

Someone on Twitter made this:

Source: https://twitter.com/0408mark58/status/768049030723010561

 

[YankeeDonB]

new image from official twitter

I like this pair. Still hoping Gentiana is a guest character at some point.

 

[Tyaren]

new image from official twitter

I really like Gentiana's design... She looks both noble and elegant yet badass. I hope she joins the party instead of Luna at some point.

 

[vainglorious]

You're wrong. They are done the master version, but they're going to add a little more content for the release as well.

Here's the time stamp of Tabata saying as much: https://youtu.be/Wepgwx_9kto?t=4m25s

Tabata talks a lot of shit. And he didn't use the word content.

"The disc that is going on sale on the 29th of November will contain everything that was scheduled to be on the day-one patch, as well as some extra things on top of that."

Tabata added that for players with an online connection, he's considering "even further patches and DLC in the future."

More summary from Polygon - http://www.polygon.com/2016/8/15/12480224/final-fantasy-15-delay-confirmed-coming-in-november

Who the fuck knows what things means. And hey, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he's referring to additional content. But in every interview he's had since the delay was announced in which he's been asked to clarify the reason for the delay he consistently talks about the need for implementing the day 1 patch on disc, as well as added polish and optimization and that's it.

Edit -

And considering how poorly the game is running more content is a pipe dream.

 

[mrpeabody]

Honestly at this point why not delay another six months, or a year? They're not going to get another FF out this generation, so this is their chance. Graphically, XV ought to look like a AAA PS4 title.

 

[Socivol]

Is it just me or does her face structure look different now?

She looks slightly more western than I remember her being.

Her face looks wider. I guess people won't say she looks like a doll anymore. Gentiana looks so good....I really hope she has a major role in the story.

 

[mrpeabody]

new image from official twitter

Weird pose. Is she getting ready to eat her own fingers?

 

[injurai]

I mean, she always looked Western frankly, but it seems that way:

Her face looks wider. I guess people won't say she looks like a doll anymore. Gentiana looks so good....I really hope she has a major role in the story.

Whatever they did, I like it way more.

Weird pose. Is she getting ready to eat her own fingers?

Covering her mouth while laughing.