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[DMczaf]

This game is mine. I didnt get FN2 but I loved FN1's controls.

Edit: :lol @ the developer interview

"I cant say when exactly the game is coming out, but PS3 is coming out right around that time... *smile*"

 

[GaimeGuy]

To be honest I really doubt that it's 3 million polys per fighter.

I'm not an expert on modelling, but I do know that there's a certain point you reach where adding polygons doesn't make a significant (or even noticeable) difference, and a 3 million poly model would be highly inefficient and several dozen times what human models usually are in most games, nowadays (including games such as RE4, HL2, GT4, Forza, etc...)

Hell, the damn star destroyers in RS2 are "only" 180,000 polys each.

A high-poly model for a human is probably around 50,000 now.

I just don't think that the fighters in this game are going to have 60 times more polys than current human characters do, especially considering how inefficient that must be.

If it is true, EA needs new modelers.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

To be honest I really doubt that it's 3 million polys per fighter.

I'm not an expert on modelling, but I do know that there's a certain point you reach where adding polygons doesn't make a significant (or even noticeable) difference, and a 3 million poly model would be highly inefficient and several dozen times what human models usually are in most games, nowadays (including games such as RE4, HL2, GT4, Forza, etc...)

Hell, the damn star destroyers in RS2 are "only" 180,000 polys each.

A high-poly model for a human is probably around 50,000 now.

I just don't think that the fighters in this game are going to have 60 times more polys than current human characters do, especially considering how inefficient that must be.

If it is true, EA needs new modelers.

I really don't see whats so unbelievable about it myself. The PS3 is orders of magnitudes faster than the PS2.

 

[Kiriku]

Speaking of polygon counts, didn't Kojima say Snake's moustache in the Metal Gear Solid 4 demo consists of as many polygons as an enemy soldier in MGS3? :lol
(not doubting it, but I found the comparison to be funny)

 

[darscot]

I really don't see whats so unbelievable about it myself. The PS3 is orders of magnitudes faster than the PS2.

That's because you believe the second statment in your post.

 

[gofreak]

I'm pretty sure it's referring to the super "high res" version they scan in and derive normal maps etc from. 2 3m poly fighters at 60fps would be 360m polys alone. With any sort of complex shaders that you'd expect next-gen that's just not going to happen.

That's because you believe the second statment in your post.

Well it's certain an order of magnitude faster. Arguably maybe 2. Probably not 3 (but maybe for some things..). But that's little to do with the feasibility of this..

 

[GaimeGuy]

I really don't see whats so unbelievable about it myself. The PS3 is orders of magnitudes faster than the PS2.

And this is why companies use PR and marketing, folks.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Er...maybe you guys missed something but the PS3 is in order of magnitudes faster than PS2. PR no PR, It's a generational leap.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

I'm pretty sure it's referring to the super "high res" version they scan in and derive normal maps etc from. 2 3m poly fighters at 60fps would be 360m polys alone. With any sort of complex shaders that you'd expect next-gen that's just not going to happen.



Well it's certain an order of magnitude faster. Arguably maybe 2. Probably not 3 (but maybe for some things..). But that's little to do with the feasibility of this..

Its definitely not 2 faster. I think what you probably meant by that was 20 times faster, which it probably is. 2 orders of magnitude faster would be 10^2, though, and I can guarantee you it's not 100 times faster.

It is a beast though, and 3 million polygons per fighter should be feasible.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Er...maybe you guys missed something but the PS3 is in order of magnitudes faster than PS2. PR no PR, It's a generational leap.

I'm not saying that the PS3 can't handle this.

Shit, three million polygons per fighter? 6 million polys on screen at once? That's significantly lower than some launch games from THIS generation!

What I'm saying is this:

The efficiency of a human model with 3 million polys is ridiculously low. You can cut that by 90% and have 300,000 polys per character and have the same amount of discernable graphical detail.

 

[choplifter]

I could believe: source art / high polygon models = 3 million polys

in-game realtime models = 300,000 polys

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Its definitely not 2 faster. I think what you probably meant by that was 20 times faster, which it probably is. 2 orders of magnitude faster would be 10^2, though, and I can guarantee you it's not 100 times faster.

Please provide proof of your guarantee.

 

[darscot]

An order of magnitude is 10 times faster three orders of magnitude would make it 1000 time faster. Lets settle down the hype train boys. :lol

 

[golem]

hl2 models are less than 10k iirc

 

[choplifter]

Er...maybe you guys missed something but the PS3 is in order of magnitudes faster than PS2. PR no PR, It's a generational leap.

PS3 is between 30 and 50 times more powerful than PS2. the version of Cell going into PS3 is 35 times more powerful than Emotion Engine. and Nvidia CEO said like a year ago that PS3 GPU is in the neighborhood of 50 times more powerful than PS2's GS.

this is a smaller leap than PS1 to PS2 which was more like 100x
(PS2 is 300x PS1 if you believe Sony)

I would say PS3 is one order of magnitude more powerful than PS2, maybe 1.5 but not orders of magnitude more (PS2 was 2 orders of magnitude more powerful than PS1).

ok im over-using that phase sorry :lol

 

[Jewbacca]

So that's like what...at least 180 million polygons per second just on the fighters alone? That's insane!!

I think that we would assume that the 3 million polys would be for a 60 or 30 frames/sec game...

Making the model 50k-100k per fighter per second. Even Dreamcast models for NHL2k1 used 2600 polys per model.(first game off the top of my head) so 50-100k seems logical... correct me if im wrong please.

3 million is quite ridiculous for each frame.

 

[GaimeGuy]

the MGS3 snake model is 4k polys

the cutscene model for Leon in RE4 on the GC is either 8k or 12k.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I'm not saying that the PS3 can't handle this.

Shit, three million polygons per fighter? 6 million polys on screen at once? That's significantly lower than some launch games from THIS generation!

What I'm saying is this:

The efficiency of a human model with 3 million polys is ridiculously low. You can cut that by 90% and have 300,000 polys per character and have the same amount of discernable graphical detail.

Just to be sure, is this is actual character models? Cause it would be per frame on so it would be above even the max raw output of PS2's 75 million/sec polygons, cause just at 30 frames per second that would be 180 million polygons/sec just on the 2 fighters alone!!

As for the second paragraph, yeah, even in movies the millions of polys are just converted into normal maps because it much more efficient that way, though still it's nice to see what these consoles can dish out in raw processing.

 

[Wunderchu]

I never thought I would say this, but, gofreak, I think you may be underestimating PS3’s power




I can't remember if anyone has stated that Fight Night round 3 will run at 60 fps ..... However, if it runs at 30 fps, then I think 3 million polygons per fighter is feasible........



If one assumes that EA's dev. team is focussing on the fighters more than anything else (and it looks like they are, from the footage they have shown so far).. then say each fighter is 3 million polygons, and the entire rest of the surrounding environment is 3 million polygons..



at 30 fps, .. (3x2) + 3 = 9 ... 9x30 =

270 million polygons/sec.


RSX 's limit is 1100 million vertices/sec. , if one extrapolates from G70 's specs.

assuming vertices roughly equals polygons.... that's ~1100 million polygons/sec.



assuming that shaders / post processing effects bring that theoretical 1100 million vertices/sec. down to 25% of that level ....

~1100 x 0.25 = 275 million polygons/sec. , which one can see is just above that 270 million polygons/sec. that I assumed earlier




.. and that’s not even including any help that RSX gets from CELL…

 

[GaimeGuy]

Just to be sure, this is actual character models so it would be per frame on so it would be above even the max raw output of PS2's 75 million/sec polygons, cause just at 30 frames per second that would be 180 million polygons/sec just on the 2 fighters alone!!

As for the second paragraph, yeah, even in movies the millions of polys are just converted into normal maps because it much more efficient that way, though still it's nice to see what these consoles can dish out in raw processing.

yeah my bad.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I never thought I would say this, but, gofreak, I think you may be underestimating PS3’s power




I can't remember if anyone has stated that Fight Night round 3 will run at 60 fps ..... However, if it runs at 30 fps, then I think 3 million polygons per fighter is feasible........



If one assumes that EA's dev. team is focussing on the fighters more than anything else (and it looks like they are, from the footage they have shown so far).. then say each fighter is 3 million polygons, and the entire rest of the surrounding environment is 3 million polygons..



at 30 fps, 3+3+3 = 9 ... 9x30 =

270 million polygons


RSX 's limit is 1100 million vertices/sec. , if one extrapolates from G70 's specs.

assuming vertices roughly equals polygons.... that's ~1100 million polygons/sec.



assuming that shaders / post processing effects bring that theoretical 1100 million vertices/sec. down to 25% of that level ....

~1100 x 0.25 = 275 million polygons/ sec. , which. one can see is just above that 270 million polygons/sec that I assumed earlier




.. and that’s not even including and help that RSX gets from CELL…

.....

 

[RiZ III]

-___-

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

.....

What 270 million polys/sec doesn't seem reasonable?

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Please provide proof of your guarantee.

How about the fact that at e3 sony only even claimed it to be about 30 times faster than ps2.

 

[GaimeGuy]

How many times do I have to say that I'm not talking about whether or not the PS3 can handle it? ¬_¬

 

[Amir0x]

the MGS3 snake model is 4k polys

the cutscene model for Leon in RE4 on the GC is either 8k or 12k.

Although 3 million polygon models are not ideal in most games, this is a boxing game. The two fighters are the most important thing to model, so it goes without saying it'd get much more focus than other titles.

Also, I don't understand why you keep citing current gen character model figures. Because Leon and Snake in RE4 and MGS3 respectively still have a fuckton of room to go for improvement, and one of the things that would do that is increase in polygon count. There are so many imperfections in the models.

So in this type of game, where the focus is a bit tighter, it's not surprising to have this. Of course, it also seems a tad overdone to me... but the results are hard to deny.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Although 3 million polygon models are not ideal in most games, this is a boxing game. The two fighters are the most important thing to model, so it goes without saying it'd get much more focus than other titles.

Also, I don't understand why you keep citing current gen character model figures. Because Leon and Snake in RE4 and MGS3 respectively still have a fuckton of room to go for improvement, and one of the things that would do that is increase in polygon count. There are so many imperfections in the models.

So in this type of game, where the focus is a bit tighter, it's not surprising to have this. Of course, it also seems a tad overdone to me... but the results are hard to deny.

three million IS a "tad" overdone.

As I already said, 300,000 would be plenty.

 

[Amir0x]

three million IS a "tad" overdone.

As I already said, 300,000 would be plenty.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea how much would be plenty or "not enough", but judging from the results 3 million is JUST FINE because these are by far the closest to 'real life' models I've ever seen in a game. So however 'overdone' it is, the results it gets are the best. So who the fuck cares.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

How about the fact that at e3 sony only even claimed it to be about 30 times faster than ps2.

30 times faster is already greater than an order of magnitude faster.

So, if you guys want to get real technical, it's at least an order of magnitude faster and very well may be close to 2 orders of magnitude faster.

Additionally, my point is - guarantees without the facts are useless.

No one actually knows the facts because the PS3 hasn't been finalized and released.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Seeing as fighters tend to push consoles the most with what's dedicated onscreen, what else are you going to do with consoles that push hundred of milions per second, it's processing power ready to be used. I expect the next Tekken and Soul Calibur to be the same really.

 

[Chittagong]

There is 2.073.600 pixels on a 1080p screen. So we would have three polygons per pixel.

 

[DCX]

Although 3 million polygon models are not ideal in most games, this is a boxing game. The two fighters are the most important thing to model, so it goes without saying it'd get much more focus than other titles.

Also, I don't understand why you keep citing current gen character model figures. Because Leon and Snake in RE4 and MGS3 respectively still have a fuckton of room to go for improvement, and one of the things that would do that is increase in polygon count. There are so many imperfections in the models.

So in this type of game, where the focus is a bit tighter, it's not surprising to have this. Of course, it also seems a tad overdone to me... but the results are hard to deny.

I don't think it's overdone, but i'm sorry, to create a believable boxing experience the crowd, ref, photogs, lighting, effects, presentation, audio, pyshics, roster, and all that is more important than 3 mill a second fighters. I prefer 1-2 million, and some more dumped into the crowd, or arenas, or cups and debri being thrown into the ring becuase of a fudged up decision.

DCX

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

30 times faster is already greater than an order of magnitude faster.

So, if you guys want to get real technical, it's at least an order of magnitude faster and very well may be close to 2 orders of magnitude faster.

Additionally, my point is - guarantees without the facts are useless.

No one actually knows the facts because the PS3 hasn't been finalized and released.

Heck if people want to get even more technical you could probably try to claim 1000x performance just on pixel shading alone for PS3, just well...PS2 barely had any!! That's how abitary this 30x-50x stuff is.

Just for reference the 35x for Cell is for the entierty of PS2 not just the EE, the Emotion Engine did the texture and lighting and the GS was a rasterizer. Throw in the fact that PS3 has the RSX to do such work load, well what kind of numbers would you throw in now? Gets grayer doesn't it.

 

[darscot]

There is 2.073.600 pixels on a 1080p screen. So we would have three polygons per pixel.

Nonsense the PS3 is poweful enough to bend the laws of physics to its will. It took the PC what 8 years to gain an order of magnitude, Sony can easily go 2-3 from PS2-3.

 

[Amir0x]

I don't think it's overdone, but i'm sorry, to create a believable boxing experience the crowd, ref, photogs, lighting, effects, presentation, audio, pyshics, roster, and all that is more important than 3 mill a second fighters. I prefer 1-2 million, and some more dumped into the crowd, or arenas, or cups and debri being thrown into the ring becuase of a fudged up decision.

DCX

And we have no idea how these things will look really? The "warehouse" location they always show is not really indicative of anything one way or another.

But I firmly believe that the fighters are by far the most important thing to model in a boxing game.

 

[Open Source]

Looks like they broke out the Brillo for these models.

 

[TAS]

Balls..EA did the same thing before Madden 06 came out. They released these photo-realistic screens and claimed that's how good the game will look in real time. We all know how that turned out.. [face_excessive_eye_rolling]

 

[Striek]

Nonsense the PS3 is poweful enough to bend the laws of physics to its will. It took the PC what 8 years to gain an order of magnitude, Sony can easily go 2-3 from PS2-3.

Whats an "order of magnitude"? When did the PC attain one?

Thanks.

 

[Sathsquatch]

For reference, I think that the locust warrior in GOW has a normal map based on a 2 million poly model. Having seen the 2 million poly version of the locust warrior, I find it hard to believe that the Fight Night boxers are 3 million polys.

 

[Open Source]

But I firmly believe that the fighters are by far the most important thing to model in a boxing game.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Nonsense the PS3 is poweful enough to bend the laws of physics to its will. It took the PC what 8 years to gain an order of magnitude, Sony can easily go 2-3 from PS2-3.

You do realize not all polygons are shown/drawn onscreen at once right?

 

[Raistlin]

I don't understand the dis'ing of 3 million polys.

It's not like they're just touting it as a PR thing, the polys actually look well-spent.

 

[Norse]

but but..sony said hd gaming wasnt here yet!?

Looks frickin good to me.

 

[Raistlin]

You'd be surprised how many polys some PS2 games were pushing per second.

 

[darscot]

You do realise not all polygons are shown onscreen right?

You do realise what sarcasm means?

 

[Amir0x]

:lol :lol :lol

Confirm the humour.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

You do realise what sarcasm means?

Sorry, hard too tell without the "" on message boards.

 

[SolidSnakex]

You cant be serious. The animations looked great. Its never going to look exactly like a real fight because its a videogame. Players need to have a certian ammount of control you know.

It doesn't look all that great. When you start having character models of this quality the animation has to be up to par with it or else the look you're going for (realism) doesn't work at all.

 

[Cuth]

For reference, I think that the locust warrior in GOW has a normal map based on a 2 million poly model. Having seen the 2 million poly version of the locust warrior, I find it hard to believe that the Fight Night boxers are 3 million polys.

I agree.

2 million poly model: http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/character_creation1.jpg

 

[Open Source]

Confirm the humour.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html