call_kotaku
Member
wow, DOA is like train simulator but for anime titties
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Fighting Game Headquarters |4| Cheers Love, the Anime's Here!
- Thread starter notworksafe
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shaowebb
Member
That promoting something with money prizes and televised events wont suddenly change the appeal of it to the casual player market. It takes thick amounts of in game content to make a game sell. Not a lot of hyping up of a game with little to offer in terms of single player content overall compared to alternatives on the market. There is no point in doing the former if you didn't first achieve the latter.
Money is in the casuals. Casuals need content to care.
Professor Beef
Banned
Yeah I have been able to afford almost all the characters by just doing the trials and single player modes. I can probably afford Urien too if I did Survival mode with some of the characters but **** survival mode.
But this model is still more appropriate for a F2P game than one that costs $60.
But this model is still more appropriate for a F2P game than one that costs $60.
People really like making threads about the game.
skLaFarebear
Member
Is your point exclusive to fighting games? Because Overwatch pretty much proves this wrong.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Overwatch has the benefit of a larger audience predisposed to FPSes and a lower barrier of entry to those who aren't, so you can't make a direct comparison.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
What sucks about this though is that you only earn it by playing online(specifically grinding levels with characters)
Which isn't really how I play fighting games primarily, so this model is kind of useless for me to justify the character costs.
skLaFarebear
Member
So this argument is exclusive to fighting games then?
Regardless, tons of games have shipped with very little content and still sold millions. The "little content = casuals dont care" argument doesn't hold true in 2016.
There's also a ton of reasons why SFV didn't meet expectations. Reducing it to "there was too little content" is just one piece of the story.
shaowebb
Member
Casuals aren't intimidated by FPS like they are fighting games so yes it does just pertain to fighting games. Fighting games online are ZERO fun for noobs. They get slaughtered and the learning curve is way steeper than in FPS titles. At least when they are initially slaughtered in FPS they are able to learn from their mistakes far quicker because of less emphasis on execution skill and inputs in the genre. There is still skill needed but its not nearly the same type of stuff as making up combos, performing resets, and blocking mixups which is shit casuals just never really get into without a lot of help. Fighting games require a long ass tutorial and a dictionary of terminology and concepts to get folks over the hump unlike FPS.
Apples to Oranges comparing FPS to fighting games.
DryEyeRelief
Member
He explained why overwatch was different and you're not going to listen huh
notworksafe
Member
yeah overwatch is different cause its a good game
Glitter and Gold
Banned
I'm not sure that's what he's saying though.
SFV could have shipped with its entire DLC lineup in the box, with functional online, Arcade Mode and no 8F lag, all for 60 dollars
and it still would have done a fraction of what Overwatch did. Because fighting games just don't have access to the same markets Blizzard games do.
That's the flaw in your logic people are trying to point out to you.
MiniBossBattle
Member
It really is easy to get in and out of. Also a loot box almost everytime you sit down and play, win or lose.
I nominate this as a POTP (Post of this Page)
That is really well put. I was hoping adding money win or lose would be a hook and people will "git gud" by sheer number of games played. A lot of the stuff in fighting game are ambiguous which is often intentional (high or low/front or back) or safe or unsafe. A lot of people view this as negative and unlike shooters, can't shoot their way out (press buttons).
shaowebb
Member
Also don't forget that their is a very large social aspect in FPS titles. Especially if its involving a team based mode of some kind. Fighting games are pretty ...silent during a match. You dont get as much friendly helpful chatter in fighting games as FPS matches...or any social interaction to reinforce a positive atmosphere as you lose for that matter.
Again...apples to oranges in the mindset and atmosphere present in an FPS multiplayer and a fighting game online. Two completely different worlds in terms of how they appeal and how you can expect sales and acceptance of economies in them.
Again...apples to oranges in the mindset and atmosphere present in an FPS multiplayer and a fighting game online. Two completely different worlds in terms of how they appeal and how you can expect sales and acceptance of economies in them.
If fighting games had followed in Smash's example then the genre would be in better shape.
By followed i mean all the trivia, collectibles, mini-games, and multi-player modes that make the game a blast to play for casuals.
Smash is able to carry two audiences: the casual and hardcore. Most fighters woefully ignore the former with the exception of NRS which brings in both.
By followed i mean all the trivia, collectibles, mini-games, and multi-player modes that make the game a blast to play for casuals.
Smash is able to carry two audiences: the casual and hardcore. Most fighters woefully ignore the former with the exception of NRS which brings in both.
How tf you complain about something you don't even play, lmfao!!!
Got me weak as always beef.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Those titles sell less because of lack of brand recognition. SF has brand recognition but fails because of lazy developers.
shaowebb
Member
Thats more an issue with demographical interests between the east and west.
Folks ADORE visual novels overseas. A deep arcade fighting game with like 60+ hours of visual novel to enjoy over there is like a super buy of content. Over here the visual novel is seen as detrimental. Too much talk, not enough fighting gameplay.Our visual novel market is super duper tiny. Its why MK and Injustice story is viewed highly. Its like a film but its got every scene leading directly into the next fight as well as the fact that each story scene between fights is small enough to digest without feeling like you are never getting to play at all. They even add variety to the gameplay a bit in these modes via QTE (for whatever those are worth to each individual) just to break the monotony of the pattern it produces to keep it interesting.
Plus western audiences go for more western looking characters. There is an entire generation here that only in their teens got anime to watch so it seems very very odd to them to relate to the tropes in this genre and the characters a lot of times. The east was raised on it and it seems "normal" where as for many here the mannerisms seem super off and alien making these types of things the sorts of characters they can't relate to.
Again...you can't just lump together scenarios here. Every title is its own situation with its own market issues. SFV wanted to be a game to draw in everyone and make money, but it barely had anything there for anyone and it only really pumped the kind of content in that would keep FGC folks excited. That's money they would've already had. They need to focus on demographical content, and if there demographic was western casuals then that means appealing to western casuals is what they should have done harder.
They needed stronger casual content for single player right out the gates and they still need it now honestly.
Well then how the hell does a series get brand recognition? It's odd people will point to games like Guilty Gear Xrd or Skullgirls as doing everything right that a fighting game should but they don't seem to be rewarded for it. People seem to have plenty of explanations why a particular game failed but when other games do everything people have clamored for but then they still sell like shit it brings up the possibility that a fighting game's sales aren't necessarily tied to what content they offer.
From what I can deduce the formula for a modern fighting game to do well, according to GAF, is "Be a sequel to a popular fighting game series in the 90's" + "Have lots of single player content" = "Selling as well as Mortal Kombat X"
Of course, that didn't work for Tekken Tag Tournament 2 despite being part of one of the best selling fighting game franchises of all time and having a ton of content.
Professor Beef
Banned
Sometimes a game can do everything right but not be fun.
I agree which is another reason why I'm surprised Mortal Kombat X sold as well as it did.
Plus in team based games you can rely on other to both carry you to victory or be your scapegoats if you lose.
You do know those are always on sale and since you are looking at stream you are missing a few outfits.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter when the port is not great, and launched without online.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
You get brand recognition by being "one of the first" & having a product that connects to male 18 to 24 well.
DryEyeRelief
Member
....Did you randomly pull out Tag 2 to prove your point?
That game alone shows why Cosmo Clock 21 is right.
Also, what constitutes as "fun" in a fighting game and a shooter are different. Most players can be satisfied by getting a few kills each match because the kills are the fun part of those games (and you can be completely wasted and still manage to get some blind luck kills in a game like Call of Duty). Winning is what's fun in a fighting game or maybe doing an impressive combo, two things a casual player can't do without putting some time into learning the game.
I actually like P4A and Revelator's method of having auto-combos by just pressing buttons because that gives the casual player the ability to do the stylish stuff that attracted them to the game in the first place. It isn't an ideal solution but even if a game like Street Fighter, that's less combo heavy and high damage normals can carry you much farther in a match, is more casual friendly when it comes to the skill floor it may not be as much "fun" if you you're stuck doing jump-in HK into sweep because that's the best combo you can do.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I liked P4A's autocombo. It wasn't just good for beginners, it also builds meter really quickly so you could use if you needed some fast meter for a super to finish things for example.
Shadoken
Member
This alone drives up sales so much. For ever 1 player who genuinely plays the game , you can have 4 other retards who can feel good about themselves because they won. Even though its that one guy who is mostly carrying the team. Maintaining a 50% winrate with matchmaking makes sure casuals keep coming back.
It is hard to maintain this 50% in Fighting games, because fighting games at low levels end up becoming mash fests. And there is nobody to guide or follow ( Unless you go on youtube or some shit ). The social aspect is a huge factor.
Professor Beef
Banned
Well I would've used Skullgirls for my example, but yes.
https://www.amazon.com/product-revi...g_btm_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&pageNumber=1
Daigo's ebook is $10. Also, there's a bunch of joke reviews.
Daigo's ebook is $10. Also, there's a bunch of joke reviews.
Karsticles
Member
There are no "reasons" a game sells well beyond hype. Most consumers are impulsive fickle idiots. You just need to give them something that makes them think "I MUST HAVE THIS". Street Fighter V had a beta. Huge mistake. You give people enough of a taste to calm them down. MKX has fatalities. OMG AWESOME. Smash announced new amazing roster additions like Pac-man and Megaman. Then it added Cloud, Ryu, and Bayonetta.
It's all just a feeling. People are skeptical about Nintendo doing well, so the Wii U fails even though it had a fantastic early library compared to the craptastic PS4. It's just a mistake to think that game sales have anything to do with a game's quality. It's all emotional investment, and SFV failed to build hype among consumers. Instead, it pandered to its competitive base that was going to buy it no matter how shitty the game turned out (see: SFxT).
It's all just a feeling. People are skeptical about Nintendo doing well, so the Wii U fails even though it had a fantastic early library compared to the craptastic PS4. It's just a mistake to think that game sales have anything to do with a game's quality. It's all emotional investment, and SFV failed to build hype among consumers. Instead, it pandered to its competitive base that was going to buy it no matter how shitty the game turned out (see: SFxT).
notworksafe
Member
Pretty much. Also applies to Overwatch, though that had a loooong alpha/beta and it inspired boatloads of hype and fanart and general obsession before it even launched.
Karsticles
Member
I think the big difference is that Overwatch is satisfying a subgenre that people haven't had fulfilled since Team Fortress, and for the many people who never played that game it feels fresh and innovative. Street Fighter V is just another Street Fighter game. While I'm very happy about SFV's general mechanics, the game didn't add anything to make the game feel like a new Street Fighter. Even pre-release, the general fighting game community largely agreed that it was missing something, and (I think) we all mostly still feel that way.
DryEyeRelief
Member
You can easily say that Mortal Kombat X is another MK game.
Ultimately V shipped over a million copies. The problem is that the copies stopped selling through to customers and its why the game costs as much as the CPT DLC on Amazon right now.
To me if anything that's indicative of of bad word of mouth than lack of hype at release.
Answer's simple. Nobody can put all the pieces together to make a successful fighting game in America.
Except Riot.
Riot will let us go.
Riot will give us hope.
Riot will save us all.
nah we're screwed
Parallax Scroll
Banned
mortal kombat seems pretty successful
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I don't think he meant monetarily
One of three Western developers can make a fighting game right now and have it be successful right out of the gate due to their own brand recognition:
Blizzard
Riot
Valve
They also have a slew of characters that they own which can be used in the fighting game.
And these being PC developers mean they will put legit effort into the PC version which means bigger initial install base.
Blizzard
Riot
Valve
They also have a slew of characters that they own which can be used in the fighting game.
And these being PC developers mean they will put legit effort into the PC version which means bigger initial install base.
Somebody should make a thread for it.
it just started
stream a: https://www.twitch.tv/topangatv (it's quite laggy now)
stream b: https://www.twitch.tv/topangajpn
Kalamari
Member
I agree with Karst. Hype sells. It's far easier to generate hype when a product has been a strong performer in the past. Which is why the Indie developers are so important right now, they are the only ones who can really push the envelope in terms of coming up with innovative game design, AAA developers can't because the publishers would never fund them.
notworksafe
Member
Yeah, now we get shit quality streams on Twitch instead!
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