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NEO0MJ · Aug 28, 2016

So I went to my first FG gathering, was pretty fun if a little awkward. Got bodied so hard, felt like a fraud. On the plus side I got some compliments on my stick art :3

]

biosnake20 · Aug 28, 2016

New vid from Core-A: What Makes a Move Overpowered?

Dahbomb · Aug 28, 2016

biosnake20 said:
New vid from Core-A: What Makes a Move Overpowered?

Goes more over frame data and what it means rather than how that relates to a move being over powered. Hardly any examples are given (gives examples in a beat em up game instead).

Plus a lot of moves are powerful because they have extra properties that may not be portrayed in the frame data or the hitbox viewer. Zero's Lightning attack isn't good just because of its frame data but because you can also cancel out of it with Buster and it has infinite durability + soft knockdown.

CO_Andy · Aug 28, 2016

NEO0MJ said:

I wonder if anybody remembers the Viewtiful Joe fighting game?

Professor Beef · Aug 28, 2016

CO_Andy said:
I wonder if anybody remembers the Viewtiful Joe fighting game?

I do. :|

KidA Seven · Aug 28, 2016

DaiGoku Black

Fear him

Professor Beef · Aug 28, 2016

KidA Seven said:
DaiGoku Black

Fear him

Didn't he (Goku Black) get bodied though

Line_HTX · Aug 28, 2016

I imagine Gohan is still washed up.

Dahbomb · Aug 28, 2016

Line_HTX said:
I imagine Gohan is still washed up.

Is the sky still blue?

ViewtifulJC · Aug 28, 2016

NEO0MJ said:
So I went to my first FG gathering, was pretty fun if a little awkward. Got bodied so hard, felt like a fraud. On the plus side I got some compliments on my stick art :3

]

Good taste sir

CO_Andy said:
I wonder if anybody remembers the Viewtiful Joe fighting game?

"What if do Viewtiful Smash Bros but instead of making it good"

"ok Im listening"

"we make it BAD"

"*clap* CUT *clap* THE *clap* CHECK!"

Malice215 · Aug 29, 2016

I'm catching up on stuff and thought this was a good read.

https://esports.yahoo.com/five-things-fgc-learn-dota-000000840.html

Still not a fan of the way CPT is constructed. It's too complicated, the top players farm points from local competitions because the points distribution is so top heavy, and $25 DLC isn't the best way to help add to the pot, especially without knowing how much actually is going towards it.

We also still suck at telling a story. I wish the stuff being done at Absolute Battle was done at other events for example, instead of having dead air. A simple interview to find out about the players instead of having dead air is a good start.

Tripon · Aug 29, 2016

Malice215 said:
I saw more calendars pop up after I stopped, and R/SF is using the same URL for their calendar that I originally created. Even Event Hubs has one now. I don't know what they're doing wrong, but it should have be easier to find info, not harder.

I'm mad that nobody told me that there was a 3rd Strike tournament taking place, especially with this as the promo art.

https://twitter.com/Yoshihara_Game/status/769540103299399684

The calendars that came up were either not updated, didn't have the right info, wrong week. Etc. It was easier to just use the CPT website to find SFV info, and hope TOs put up info on their website for other games.

KidA Seven · Aug 29, 2016

Malice215 said:
I'm catching up on stuff and thought this was a good read.

https://esports.yahoo.com/five-things-fgc-learn-dota-000000840.html

Still not a fan of the way CPT is constructed. It's too complicated, the top players farm points from local competitions because the points distribution is so top heavy, and $25 DLC isn't the best way to help add to the pot, especially without knowing how much actually is going towards it.

We also still suck at telling a story. I wish the stuff being done at Absolute Battle was done at other events for example, instead of having dead air. A simple interview to find out about the players instead of having dead air is a good start.

Agreed. The point system is really crap.

The only story content of every individual player we get are the Ultrachen videos at the end of the year.

Marz · Aug 29, 2016

Really not too interested in learning about individual players tbh.

I tune in for the games themselves , how matchups play out at the highest level etc.

Dahbomb · Aug 29, 2016

Marz said:
Really not too interested in learning about individual players tbh.

I tune in for the games themselves , how matchups play out at the highest level etc.

Not everyone tunes in to see high level match ups and strategies. If the audience finds one of the players to be relatable or has an interesting story going into the matches then they are more likely to be invested in it.

You'd be surprised how many people watch the TIs and don't even play DOTA 2. Some hardly even know much about it but they do because of how well it's produced. They do a good job of getting the uninformed caught up and that's how they convert the uninitiated into a DOTA fan.

peter0611 · Aug 29, 2016

I think everyone starts off only interested in high-level competitive play, but then many become engaged in the players, personalities, drama, etc. It becomes the icing on the cake. No different than traditional sports. For example, people love Daigo and want to see him in tournaments, but you have to first care about fighting games and street fighter. Otherwise he's just an awkwardly cute Japanese dude.

.la1n · Aug 29, 2016

peter0611 said:
I think everyone starts off only interested in high-level competitive play, but then many become engaged in the players, personalities, drama, etc. It becomes the icing on the cake. No different than traditional sports. For example, people love Daigo and want to see him in tournaments, but you have to first care about fighting games and street fighter. Otherwise he's just an awkwardly cute Japanese dude.

This was my experience. I still enjoy watching high level play but when there is some investment in the players themselves it adds another layer of excitement for me.

Sorcerer Supreme · Aug 29, 2016

the point system last year was simple to understand but this year they made it so confusing. the point system is also flawed when it comes to judging player skill.

Line_HTX · Aug 29, 2016

Dahbomb said:
Not everyone tunes in to see high level match ups and strategies. If the audience finds one of the players to be relatable or has an interesting story going into the matches then they are more likely to be invested in it.

You'd be surprised how many people watch the TIs and don't even play DOTA 2. Some hardly even know much about it but they do because of how well it's produced. They do a good job of getting the uninformed caught up and that's how they convert the uninitiated into a DOTA fan.

Yep, this is the same reason why a large audience watches real sports too. They love to get attached to a story narrative, and stats and strategies come 2nd. The most important thing that matters to them are the names and the background, which KidA Seven points out Ultrachen does it well.

NEO0MJ · Aug 29, 2016

CO_Andy said:
I wonder if anybody remembers the Viewtiful Joe fighting game?

It's because someone said that it was a strange choice considering VJ isn't a fighting game to which I replied Joe was in two fighting games. I completely forgot Red Hot Rumble existed.
Man, for a while it seemed Joe would be a mainstay of Capcom's lineup. Maybe it was for the best that it disappeared when it did, though.

ViewtifulJC said:
Good taste sir

Thanks!

Tizoc · Aug 29, 2016

ShinMaruku · Aug 29, 2016

That coping the International is silly because only Valve would try something that nuts because Dota 2 and steam can feasibility get the money, with the sf team there is no guarantee it would balloon the prize pool due to limited user base and focus being lower income than mobas for obvious reasons. That whole comparison was daft.

Kumubou · Aug 29, 2016

ShinMaruku said:
That coping the International is silly because only Valve would try something that nuts because Dota 2 and steam can feasibility get the money, with the sf team there is no guarantee it would balloon the prize pool due to limited user base and focus being lower income than mobas for obvious reasons. That whole comparison was daft.

You know it works at smaller scales too, right? Microsoft/Iron Galaxy did a "tournament community fund" promotion to help fund community pots last year and they hit their prescribed cap (of $100,000) in a couple of days. I'm actually kind of curious why they didn't do that this year, since it was successful. (Smaller marketing budget? Possibly due to the lack of a relatively easy carrot at the end like they had with Shadow Jago being a bonus character last year? Who knows.)

I wouldn't expect a community-driven pot bonus to hit the $20m that The International does (plus Valve covering all taxes and the absolutely insane production of the event -- even though only 25% of fees paid goes to the players they're probably putting ~70-80% of that revenue into the event), I think SF5 doing something similar could pull in some cash. Capcom would just... have to not start acting like Capcom for it to work. :\

Rice-Eater · Aug 29, 2016

What the Capcom has done this year successfully is to give us meaningful events to watch every week for most of the year. I mean when was the last time we had a weekend without a CPT event. All these minor events that most didn't really care about before get more attendees, viewers, and even top players because everybody is desperate for those points.

But yeah, shit can get kind of confusing and the point system is still too hop heavy. Maybe it would be better for Capcom to pull back on the number of events and simplify things. But I must admit I would definitely miss having something to look forward to almost every weekend like we have had this year.

Thomasorus · Aug 29, 2016

Malice215 said:
I'm catching up on stuff and thought this was a good read.

https://esports.yahoo.com/five-things-fgc-learn-dota-000000840.html

Still not a fan of the way CPT is constructed. It's too complicated, the top players farm points from local competitions because the points distribution is so top heavy, and $25 DLC isn't the best way to help add to the pot, especially without knowing how much actually is going towards it.

We also still suck at telling a story. I wish the stuff being done at Absolute Battle was done at other events for example, instead of having dead air. A simple interview to find out about the players instead of having dead air is a good start.

What is forgotten in this article is how much TI6 was pro and dumb at the same time. Commentators transformed into muppets, a cosplayer pretending to be a VR character on the stage, the guy with the giant screen doing weather, the fan trashed by the commentators, the interviewers in the crowd asking people questions (it didn't worked all the time but they tried).

Meanwhile at EVO it was dull as hell. Oh and also because I'm in Europe I have an inferior stream production (with commentators in the stands, what the hell buy another desk...) than the one on ESPN2. Even Marvel with Yipes and Persia gave me the feeling they were not in it.

Why people want to pursue the TV thing is beyond my understanding. TV has a good production value ok. But TV IS BORING.

Rice-Eater said:
What the Capcom has done this year successfully is to give us meaningful events to watch every week for most of the year. I mean when was the last time we had a weekend without a CPT event. All these minor events that most didn't really care about before get more attendees, viewers, and even top players because everybody is desperate for those points.

But yeah, shit can get kind of confusing and the point system is still too hop heavy. Maybe it would be better for Capcom to pull back on the number of events and simplify things. But I must admit I would definitely miss having something to look forward to almost every weekend like we have had this year.

The opposite for me. I stopped caring because there's so much each weak I can't follow or know what is important. The result is that I only watch big old majors when I can, or Europe events because it's in my timezone.

ShinMaruku · Aug 29, 2016

Kumubou said:
You know it works at smaller scales too, right? Microsoft/Iron Galaxy did a "tournament community fund" promotion to help fund community pots last year and they hit their prescribed cap (of $100,000) in a couple of days. I'm actually kind of curious why they didn't do that this year, since it was successful. (Smaller marketing budget? Possibly due to the lack of a relatively easy carrot at the end like they had with Shadow Jago being a bonus character last year? Who knows.)

I wouldn't expect a community-driven pot bonus to hit the $20m that The International does (plus Valve covering all taxes and the absolutely insane production of the event -- even though only 25% of fees paid goes to the players they're probably putting ~70-80% of that revenue into the event), I think SF5 doing something similar could pull in some cash. Capcom would just... have to not start acting like Capcom for it to work. :\

It can work at smaller scales but that would still require more engagement from the community to make something like that work and stick. The fact that KI does not have that this year should be a sign of why it has not been attempted with others. KI also did it because I'm sure it's diehards would actually put money to the game at a percentage to drive up the prize. I am not so sure the sf 5 base would do that. There can certainly be some cash going into it from this but who knows how much more it would be and Capcom being Capcom (On some level ya can't blame them for som decisions, their main issue is execution) also points to this being a fools errand to even dream of or suggest.

Malice215 · Aug 29, 2016

Tripon said:
The calendars that came up were either not updated, didn't have the right info, wrong week. Etc. It was easier to just use the CPT website to find SFV info, and hope TOs put up info on their website for other games.

You right about that.

Marz said:
Really not too interested in learning about individual players tbh.

I tune in for the games themselves , how matchups play out at the highest level etc.

Learning about the players is what helps keeps people invested into tuning into those high level matches. People probably find out about Daigo from Moment 37 or from some other high level match. Once they learn more about him, that's when they become invested in watching him play at other events and make the eventual transition from casual fan to dick rider.

ShinMaruku said:
That coping the International is silly because only Valve would try something that nuts because Dota 2 and steam can feasibility get the money, with the sf team there is no guarantee it would balloon the prize pool due to limited user base and focus being lower income than mobas for obvious reasons. That whole comparison was daft.

It's not about trying to balloon the pot to Dota 2 levels. With Dota 2, people know what they're getting and how much of their money actually goes to the prize pool which is why they're willing to support it. The SFV DLC doesn't have that level of transparency while pricing out most fans from supporting it because of how expensive it is.

You can also look at what KI and MKX have done with microtransactions that were actually micro. Sonic Fox is going to college in a Bentley because of MKX skin sales.

What's guaranteed is that people will buy outfits for Chun Li because she's thicker than a snicker. They could have made the costume cheaper to sell more of it, or take a small percentage from a bunch of costumes like the summer beach outfits to help support it.

Street Fighter is also a more popular title competitively, so they can use DLC costumes to support the pot for as long as they wanted to, and the direction that they need to go in because you can't expect Sony to continually throw $500K every year to the pro tour.

Thomasorus said:
snip

The problem with video games is that they try to do something phony instead of looking at the things TV gets right and augmenting those things naturally into their current production. That's what's annoying.

Rice-Eater said:
What the Capcom has done this year successfully is to give us meaningful events to watch every week for most of the year. I mean when was the last time we had a weekend without a CPT event. All these minor events that most didn't really care about before get more attendees, viewers, and even top players because everybody is desperate for those points.

But yeah, shit can get kind of confusing and the point system is still too hop heavy. Maybe it would be better for Capcom to pull back on the number of events and simplify things. But I must admit I would definitely miss having something to look forward to almost every weekend like we have had this year.

The great thing is that there's plenty of events worth watching and going to, but the current points system leads to farming and is too top heavy.

All you really need is one global leaderboard for points that's less top heavy, and for ranking events, just take the highest placer who actually lives in that region and doesn't have a guaranteed spot and put them into the regional finals to compete. You don't need a redundant points leaderboard.

mbpm1 · Aug 29, 2016

Thomasorus said:
What is forgotten in this article is how much TI6 was pro and dumb at the same time. Commentators transformed into muppets,

Wait, what?

ShinMaruku · Aug 29, 2016

Malice215 said:
It's not about trying to balloon the pot to Dota 2 levels. With Dota 2, people know what they're getting and how much of their money actually goes to the prize pool which is why they're willing to support it. The SFV DLC doesn't have that level of transparency while pricing out most fans from supporting it because of how expensive it is.

You can also look at what KI and MKX have done with microtransactions that were actually micro. Sonic Fox is going to college in a Bentley because of MKX skin sales.

What's guaranteed is that people will buy outfits for Chun Li because she's thicker than a snicker. They could have made the costume cheaper to sell more of it, or take a small percentage from a bunch of costumes like the summer beach outfits to help support it.

Street Fighter is also a more popular title competitively, so they can use DLC costumes to support the pot for as long as they wanted to, and the direction that they need to go in because you can't expect Sony to continually throw $500K every year to the pro tour.

They can also look what DOA has done with DLC because they have a true mint with 4 season passes and the sale of about 400-600 costumes in packs and what not.
But in order for you have have a small amount of dlc money going into the prize pool you first have to have costumes that sell (Ahem Chun and Cammy and Karin sell because they dress 'nice') and have a volume that is consistent.

Does sf5 have the art team for that? Do they have a proper dlc pipeline that makes it easy to push it out? Have they invested in it? Would the volume still put enough money to make them put a small part out?

I don't think Capcom has begun to do any of those things which makes that idea just idle speculation. Look at Capcom for what they are not what you think they could be.

sixteen-bit · Aug 29, 2016

aren't the character models outsourced? I don't know if they have an internal team for that.

mbpm1 · Aug 29, 2016

sixteen-bit said:
aren't the character models outsourced? I don't know if they have an internal team for that.

I recall they were. That's why some characters look oddly different

ShinMaruku · Aug 29, 2016

Different teams have a character block. For example I think Ibooty and Juri have the same team.

That stated since they have all that, doing this is not feasable unless Capcom actually adds these folks and monetize it properly

Dahbomb · Aug 29, 2016

Went to a friend's house to play SFV. Was itching to play some Balrog and Guile.

He didn't have either characters. He did have Ibuki and Juri... and the R Mika and Karin special costumes (that you can't even buy with FM)....

I gave him the death stare then whooped him with Cammy in the Naruto costume.

ShinMaruku · Aug 29, 2016

There is a reason why Karin, Ibooty, Juri,Laura and Mika are in the game. They will have the highest dlc consumption along side Chun and Cammy. Nobody should be shocked Chun and Cammy were the orginal titillation.

mnz · Aug 29, 2016

Yeah that's why this business model can be a problem...

ShinMaruku · Aug 29, 2016

If they use the funds to keep adding characters and support the game I see no issue with the business model. The real issue is Capcom is not equipped to properly leverage it. Cammy was the first character with the jiggle all the way back and Chun's animations were always cheese cake.

pizzacat · Aug 29, 2016

ShinMaruku said:
There is a reason why Karin, Ibooty, Juri,Laura and Mika are in the game. They will have the highest dlc consumption along side Chun and Cammy. Nobody should be shocked Chun and Cammy were the orginal titillation.

i remember lots of people clamoring for mika before release, never seen them after.

they prolly all got banned when that doax3 thread was purged

NEO0MJ · Aug 29, 2016

Dahbomb said:
Went to a friend's house to play SFV. Was itching to play some Balrog and Guile.

He didn't have either characters. He did have Ibuki and Juri... and the R Mika and Karin special costumes (that you can't even buy with FM)....

I gave him the death stare then whooped him with Cammy in the Naruto costume.

That's lame. Balrog is like the only reason I'm touching SFV now, even though I have no idea how to best deal with pressure.

pizzacat · Aug 29, 2016

NEO0MJ said:
That's lame. Balrog is like the only reason I'm touching SFV now, even though I have no idea how to best deal with pressure.

hahaha you dont

Dahbomb · Aug 29, 2016

NEO0MJ said:
That's lame. Balrog is like the only reason I'm touching SFV now, even though I have no idea how to best deal with pressure.

Just V reversal out of everything or 3 frame st.LK mash out of stuff.

It's scrubby but it's SFV, do it until they show you otherwise.

mnz · Aug 29, 2016

Or, you know, block.

pizzacat · Aug 29, 2016

is ramon just el fuerte?

ShinMaruku · Aug 29, 2016

pizzacat said:
i remember lots of people clamoring for mika before release, never seen them after.

they prolly all got banned when that doax3 thread was purged

It's either that or sf bodied them and they dropped it.

But let's be frank, if you want dlc to sell, it's Cammy,Juri,Chun and Karin that you can sell the good dlc with.

BadWolf · Aug 29, 2016

mnz said:
Or, you know, block.

And get thrown.

Over, and over.

pizzacat said:
is ramon just el fuerte?

Err... no.

Ramon was introduced in KOF2000 so he predates El Fuerte by a lot. He also isn't hated like Fuerte is.

RockTurtle · Aug 29, 2016

ShinMaruku said:
It's either that or sf bodied them and they dropped it.

But let's be frank, if you want dlc to sell, it's Cammy,Juri,Chun and Karin that you can sell the good dlc with.

thick DLC

ShinMaruku · Aug 29, 2016

RockTurtle said:
thick DLC

That's what Chun really means about her Gung Fu

Perro · Aug 29, 2016

Capcom could bring back jiggle options and charge money for it. That shit would sell fast.

CurlyW · Aug 29, 2016

mbpm1 said:
Wait, what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4S7wBCWZ6Y

ChamplooJones · Aug 29, 2016

pizzacat said:
is ramon just el fuerte?

Ramon is much cooler than El Fuerte's corny ass.

Marz · Aug 29, 2016

Momotaro said:
Ramon is much cooler than El Fuerte's corny ass.

They're both whack

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