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Fighting Game Headquarters |eSports| 4444 Life
- Thread starter notworksafe
- Start date
Maybe IntelliHeath will make it after he wakes up?
IIRC when we had that online practice session You were learning the game 5 years after it came out while you are along for the ride in your Tekken 7 learning phase. That could be a potential factor in the difference.
I'm just logically thinking about how you go about learning Matchups and researching information about the game is identical now to how it was in Tag2. None of the minute differences in the 2 games' systems changed that.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
I wasnt trying to learn TTT2, I was only trying to learn Tekken fundamentals for T7. It's why I pretty much exclusively sat in training mode working on movement. The few times I played online against some of tekken gaf I only did solo mode.
I actually bought TTT2 on launch day and tried learning it for about a month and gave up because I hated a lot of things about the game that felt very punishing for new players. Things like having to learn 2 characters, tag crash, very long and very high damaging combos, more opportunities for resets on wakeup, the wall, rage etc. etc. on top of the general fundamentals of tekken/3D games made it really difficult for me to enjoy the game while learning, since there were so many elements that felt 'random' to me.
T7 removing all that made it so much easier for me to digest information and quickly realize what Im messing up in within a match after I lose. In TTT2 I'd just lose and sorta be dumbfounded on what was even going on in the match.
^ I can understand that mentality but I don't agree with a lot of those things.
1) Unless you were competing in major tournaments, the game never forced you to learn 2 characters, Solo mode was always available. Hence, you didn't need to learn the tag system and tag crash mechanics if you didn't want to. That's your choice if you want to exert yourself to that the same way you would exert yourself by picking a character like Yoshimitsu rather than Jack in Tekken 7.
2) There were indeed more damaging combo's In TTT2 but when you consider the entire pool of health available between the 2 characters to the player then the ratio of combo damage to the overall lifebar are not that different between TTT2 and T7 if not more lopsided in the case of T7.
If anything, I would concede that poke damage was more dangerous in TTT2 so getting punished for a panic hopkick and such is a much bigger deal than in other Tekken games. You can argue that the game discouraged reckless play more than T7.
3) Combo resets still exist in Tekken 7 the same way they existed in TTT2. Even backroll catches still exist in Tekken 7. The only difference is the floats off of back/forward rolling. TTT2 wakeups were also far more forgiving compared to how it was in Tekken 5 and earlier where on top of that, every wakeup attack was launch punishable. Mind you, the change in Tekken 7 didn't necessarily make things all that much easier, it gave rise to vortex hell situations like this which wouldn't have happened in TTT2:
4) The Wall slump mechanics in T7 are identical to TTT2 which was already pretty much the same from T6.
What I'm trying to say is T7 didn't really "remove" much from TTT2 other than the tag mechanics (which was 100% optional) and the way certain floats occurred from wakeup. The moral of the story is that your anecdotes of struggling is based a lot on the lack of how the game truly worked because those same struggles should still apply when you were learning Tekken 7.
EDIT:
And this isn't referring to you Onemic, but a lot of the negative perception of TTT2 being a confounding struggle to get introduced to the franchise was perpetuated with guys like Aris. He began this rhetoric about this game having some infinite barrier of entry when he really just refused to adapt and learn new strategies to counter the tag mechanics.
1) Unless you were competing in major tournaments, the game never forced you to learn 2 characters, Solo mode was always available. Hence, you didn't need to learn the tag system and tag crash mechanics if you didn't want to. That's your choice if you want to exert yourself to that the same way you would exert yourself by picking a character like Yoshimitsu rather than Jack in Tekken 7.
2) There were indeed more damaging combo's In TTT2 but when you consider the entire pool of health available between the 2 characters to the player then the ratio of combo damage to the overall lifebar are not that different between TTT2 and T7 if not more lopsided in the case of T7.
If anything, I would concede that poke damage was more dangerous in TTT2 so getting punished for a panic hopkick and such is a much bigger deal than in other Tekken games. You can argue that the game discouraged reckless play more than T7.
3) Combo resets still exist in Tekken 7 the same way they existed in TTT2. Even backroll catches still exist in Tekken 7. The only difference is the floats off of back/forward rolling. TTT2 wakeups were also far more forgiving compared to how it was in Tekken 5 and earlier where on top of that, every wakeup attack was launch punishable. Mind you, the change in Tekken 7 didn't necessarily make things all that much easier, it gave rise to vortex hell situations like this which wouldn't have happened in TTT2:
4) The Wall slump mechanics in T7 are identical to TTT2 which was already pretty much the same from T6.
What I'm trying to say is T7 didn't really "remove" much from TTT2 other than the tag mechanics (which was 100% optional) and the way certain floats occurred from wakeup. The moral of the story is that your anecdotes of struggling is based a lot on the lack of how the game truly worked because those same struggles should still apply when you were learning Tekken 7.
EDIT:
And this isn't referring to you Onemic, but a lot of the negative perception of TTT2 being a confounding struggle to get introduced to the franchise was perpetuated with guys like Aris. He began this rhetoric about this game having some infinite barrier of entry when he really just refused to adapt and learn new strategies to counter the tag mechanics.
I guess T7 helped ease me in better is what I should say. I know there are still resets on wakeup, but it's not nearly as frustrating as getting floated every time in TTT2 because backroll catches are so easy in comparison. I dont believe Ive ever been floated for a combo in T7, whereas it was happening all the time in TTT2.
Tag was an optional mode sure, but relegating myself to only solo while the vast majority of people playing the game played tag just wasnt feasible for me. If Im learning a game Im going to play the mode that is the main one advertised and played competitively. Even with solo mode, you still have to deal with an opponent that is using the tag mechanic, so it's always present whether Im playing solo or not.
Tag was an optional mode sure, but relegating myself to only solo while the vast majority of people playing the game played tag just wasnt feasible for me. If Im learning a game Im going to play the mode that is the main one advertised and played competitively. Even with solo mode, you still have to deal with an opponent that is using the tag mechanic, so it's always present whether Im playing solo or not.
Turbanator
Member
You know one thing that would make Tekken easier?
Not having to learn handjob techniques from the Kama Sutra to backdash.
Not having to learn handjob techniques from the Kama Sutra to backdash.
Lol the "Korean" technique.
lucebuce12
Member
Thomasorus
Member
I'm surprised about what James says about what is punishable or not. Almost everything is punishable after blocking, just not with a launcher. Once you get this and punish foolish attempts to launch you're starting to feel better at the your turn/my turn things. Even the animations are a bit telling what is punishable or not, not like SF5 where you think you can punish but you can't because animations don't match frame data.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
play eliza, whose jump back is as fast as her KBD, and gives the opportunity to utilize divekicks for punishing.
Holy Order Sol
Member
ZeroTheShadow
Member
CommandThrower
Member
That's on PC only, if I'm not mistaken.
Console players don't have that same convenience.
I strongly disagree with the idea that oki hasn't changed much from TTT2. Replacing out the back roll (which was both something a lot of new players would try to do a lot and absolute trash) with the new get up animation is a huge change and simplifies how people get up in a lot of situations. And going "well you can't get refloated now" also undersells that change -- that significantly reduces the downside of being wrong when trying to get up.
And while you could play solo in TTT2, the community blew that off as "scrubby" and even if you were playing solo, you typically had to worry about two match-ups at once.
I can only speak for myself, but the oki changes and lack of tag mechanics made T7 feel easier to play to me than TTT2. And possibly more importantly, it seems less stressful. There's less shit to keep track of (not to say there isn't a lot, just less than TTT2).
There are some things about Tekken that I don't think I'll ever get, though (such as how sidestep/sidewalk works).
And while you could play solo in TTT2, the community blew that off as "scrubby" and even if you were playing solo, you typically had to worry about two match-ups at once.
I can only speak for myself, but the oki changes and lack of tag mechanics made T7 feel easier to play to me than TTT2. And possibly more importantly, it seems less stressful. There's less shit to keep track of (not to say there isn't a lot, just less than TTT2).
There are some things about Tekken that I don't think I'll ever get, though (such as how sidestep/sidewalk works).
Turbanator
Member
Actually it's too important to make hard. Look at Soul Calibur. The game gives you almost 1:1 input to output in terms of movement, yet most people still can't move for shit because they don't know how to move in the context of a fight.
Movement is already an incredibly difficult concept to grasp in fighting games. Locking true movement behind an execution barrier only makes it that much harder to understand spacing.
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Vegeta trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTTQTiE3uC4
Yeah guys, totally not clones or anything. WOW that Kaioken super... it's almost like it's exactly like regular Goku's SSJ3 super...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTTQTiE3uC4
Yeah guys, totally not clones or anything. WOW that Kaioken super... it's almost like it's exactly like regular Goku's SSJ3 super...
They are completely apples and oranges in how their neutral operates.
Slamtastic
Member
It certainly feels like the company that gave us Jack-O is being held back in gameplay creativity by the source material.
MHA ASW fighter please
HxH ASW fighter please
But obviously DBZ is the big boy grandpappy after HnK that ASW already did, so it gets to come first.
That's a fact
Holy Order Sol
Member
MikeBreezy92
Member
Just stop while you're behind please.
shaowebb
Member
Lets see...axe kick, one inch punch, Vegeta got some nice multihit air enders that leave you both back on the ground which changes followup options plus a bitchin chokeslam to AA grab with, speeds, normals, looked like maybe a divekick...
Not bad. Wish they had their other outfits from when they trained with Beerus and Whis to get those forms but its something I dont give a shit about enough to care. 2 more movesets to play. 13 cast now? 6 months left? We good man.
Eh, they look different enough to not be clones. They have quite a few different moves there.
Holy Order Sol
Member
people don't suck at things anymore, there are "barriers" instead
https://twitter.com/novriltataki/status/901137054939185152 most normals yeah
https://twitter.com/novriltataki/status/901137054939185152 most normals yeah
I mean, I was expecting Vegeta to just have a normal ass Garlic Gun but he has a new super and quite a few new moves.
Goku's moves I couldn't really tell, but his SSB Kaioken Super is different than the SSJ3 Super.
Why you gotta gate my fun
shaowebb
Member
Gotta say after watching that Android 16 and Piccolo are hype as fuck. My god the impact of 16's moves just feels so damned solid. Absolutely slams the fuck outta you and since the game moves so fast already its even more jarring in a flurry situation of back and forth chases and dragon rushes when the ground chase suddenly hits the brick wall of 16 press slamming you so hard the ground breaks then hell blasting you. I can't wait to see an anchor 16 with full meter and low health take on a full health on fire dude and manage to pull off the instakill for the win.
Karsticles
Member
ROFL, no kidding. People are all stuck on reframing things.
When I was a kid, being "exceptional" meant you were on top of the class. Now it means you have a disability.
"Intensive Math" used to be the hard stuff. Now that's where the low kids go.
A coworker of mine said one of my students is "gifted" I had to ask him if that was a good or bad thing.
Master Milk
Member
do people really talk like that? i don't think i've ever heard any of those before.
maybe it's because you work in schools?
ZeroTheShadow
Member
As a former Soul Calibur mainer this is a stupid conparison. Soul Calibur's movement doesn't even give you half the depth & percision of Tekken's.
SixMachine
Member
Even though I don't like him, but Nappa being a character planting Saibamen mid match would be a pretty cool concept.
I wonder how well it would work in a 3v3 game, though.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Picollo is easily the strongest character in the gamescon build.
-Berserker Slash
-Homing Fire
-SuperSkrull Grabs
-Helmbreaker like air chop
-Counters
-Lockdown Super for 1 Bar
-Air Smash
-c.A is a low(not common in DBFZ)
He has so many tools. Only weakness is his assist sucks.
SixMachine
Member
They could try some different ways which would be pretty interesting. One is having Saibamen always persistent, so if the next character is tagged the mook will still help in harassing (maybe it always does some action based on button press). The second way is they follow Nappa out, so potentially he would get stronger over the course of a match because he is building a better army of Saibamen.
Judging by this I'm definitely playing the wrong game. I'm playing the fake version that should never have made it past Namco QA.
I also must have missed the new hip trend of calling PC mods "apps".
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
This is kind of a weird post. I didn't know Kadey was banned (if you're reading this, 'hello!') -- and I'm just friends with her.
No one dates me and lives to tell about it. Hmph.