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Fighting Games Weekly |8/24-30| Trying Our Hardest to Become Pachinko Slot Fans

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F

Fraeon

Member
Holy Order Sol said:
Alioune found a combo in the beta that involved walking forward lol
Click to expand...

Yeah, he found that if you do a standing strong, you can walk forward and do a light kick and that would still combo.

And it's a one frame link.

Now just because all of the useful links are doable doesn't mean the engine will be devoid of strange interactions to make combo movies out of. Strange interactions have been 90% of desk's combo videos as of late.
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
Universal hurtboxes and simplified juggle systems minus FADC will mean much much less in terms of combo variety in SFV.

I spent the last 3 tests parsing all the possible combo routes with Chun, as well as understanding how her v-trigger juggle system works and I'm sure I've found everything I can with her outside of those specific Desk video situations you mentioned (which is pretty infeasible with the way you can't record atm).

edit: also why they give ryu vanilla sagat st.lk
 
D

DunpealD

Member
On a late note. Karsticles was right Dictators OTG seems to be completely useless unless the opponent doesn't tech. It looks like teching is completely invincible.

Holy Order Sol said:
Alioune found a combo in the beta that involved walking forward lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRcDCZ_hq4Y&feature=youtu.be

DPs recovery = counter hit state fuck yeah I actually wanted this
Click to expand...

Interesting notes from the video(not all notes):
- End of karathrows
- Bison's flame is now qcb
- Bison's Cr. Hp is also Crush Counter
- Birdie's V-Trigger activation is now anti-air
- Nash TP is nerfed, some combos are not possible anymore
- Dragon Punchs on guard are now on Crush Counter weakness.
- Ryu's cr mk is still useless
- End of "lights to mediums" combos
Click to expand...

The DPs while in animation being a counterhit might possibly already in the Beta. I once crush countered an lp DP with Ryus st.HK.

At this point I wonder what use Ryu's cr.mk, except for being a low, since st.lk is a much better choice right now.
If the change of no more light into medium also affects Ryu's st.lp into st.mp, then st.lp officially has no use anymore outside of being a shitty normal since the only use for it was to link into st.mp.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
K.Sabot said:
Universal hurtboxes and simplified juggle systems minus FADC will mean much much less in terms of combo variety in SFV.

I spent the last 3 tests parsing all the possible combo routes with Chun, as well as understanding how her v-trigger juggle system works and I'm sure I've found everything I can with her outside of those specific Desk video situations you mentioned (which is pretty infeasible with the way you can't record atm).

edit: also why they give ryu vanilla sagat st.lk
Click to expand...

SFV is all about squeezing value out of counterhit and meaty setups to get combo extensions. The BnBs aren't where the depth is at from what we've seen.
 
J

Juicebox_FGC

Member
Ryu's crMK will still be good in close range situations.

Say your jump in is blocked and you want to do a delayed low to catch a throw tech. CrMK is the best option.
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
Clawww said:
why nerf nash's v-trigger combos man
Click to expand...

they were already pretty situational as is, yeah I don't get the nerf.

Peeps getting scared looking at full jump in combos with full meter / vtrigger doing 60-70 percent when there are few situations you should be able to land a raw jump in with full bars.
 
O

OceanBlue

Member
DunpealD said:
.
If the change of no more light into medium also affects Ryu's st.lp into st.mp, then st.lp officially has no use anymore outside of being a shitty normal since the only use for it was to link into st.mp.
Click to expand...
Don't worry, I have a solution. +3 on block, +0 on hit.
 
J

jbug617

Banned
Big E just tweeted that Capcom is helping out by getting a new venue for NEC. I think they might have the same venue that Apex got when their hotel got shut down.
@BigENec: Also I would like everyone to know CAPCOM is helping me get a new Venue for Nec XVI.
Thanks Matt, Peter and the Whole Capcom Crew.
Click to expand...
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
From what I played, SFV is the anti-Kusoge.

SF4 pre-Ultra is the *modern*kusoge traditional fighter if anything.

edit for clarification
 
C

Crocodile

Member
A) I like Pineapples and Pizza but I've never had them together. Maybe I should change that?

B) I know Ono doesn't rule Capcom but at least when it comes to SF, it seems surreal that he can be so aggressively vetoed with regards to character choices apparently.

Ono: "I'm going to put R. Mika in the game!"
Capcom Suit: "Fuck that bitch, fuck you, no Mika!"
Ono: ;_;

I dunno that scenario seems surreal (if also a bit simplified but whatever)

Karsticles said:
I feel the same way. Kind of like Neoxon.
Click to expand...

Neoxon doesn't claim to have insider info but he is ALWAYS so sure that X will or won't happen and will write essays to explain why your speculation, even if you straight up acknowledge its a bit far flung, couldn't possibly have merit whilst lacking the self awareness that half+ the time all the stuff he's saying is ALSO speculation. I appreciate his enthusiasm but that tendency of his can be very exasperating.
 
A

Azure J

Member
It's so cool seeing the big guys all helping out with better venues now.

Tangent: First three pages of this week's FGW got me hungry for some pizza
meat lovers dabes
, has me looking out for Honeycrisps and has me pretty hype for Revelator.
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
DunpealD said:
If the change of no more light into medium also affects Ryu's st.lp into st.mp, then st.lp officially has no use anymore outside of being a shitty normal since the only use for it was to link into st.mp.
Click to expand...

If that's true about all light attacks then Ryu's st. lp can still be useful it it's at least +4 on hit. That's enough to link into st. lk which does combo into any of his tatsu's unlike the crouch light attacks. If not then I just don't understand their reasoning for these changes.
 
H

Holy Order Sol

Member
K.Sabot said:
From what I played, SFV is the anti-Kusoge.
Click to expand...

Yeah SFV looking more like this so far:

Mr._Clean_logo.png
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
SamVimes said:
Based on what? lol
Click to expand...

Unblockables/ Vortex / the amount of unpunishable (not necessarily unbaitable though) defensive get out of jail free cards that would even give the other player frame advantage. The amount of characters who could change their air trajectory vs. the lack of decent all-around anti-air options for most characters (too many situational anti-airs needed).

SFV keeps the high damage punishes for bad defensive reads you'd get via FADC in 4 without the dumb defensive measures that came with it.

edit: Oh and let's not forget about the ridiculous multi button OS's, I heard that Xian crouch techs with 4-5 buttons. I do actually remember him doing a video about his crouch techs for Cross-counter asia actually.
 
A

Azure J

Member
OK, so I'm watching that Johnny/Jack-O footage linked on the past page and hot damn YRC Baccus looks just as "lol" as you all told me it'd be. Haha.
 
O

OceanBlue

Member
K.Sabot said:
edit: Oh and let's not forget about the ridiculous multi button OS's, I heard that Xian crouch techs with 4-5 buttons. I do actually remember him doing a video about his crouch techs for Cross-counter asia actually.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the throw tech + focus backdash OS or is this a Gen specific thing?
 
S

SamVimes

Member
K.Sabot said:
Unblockables/ Vortex / the amount of unpunishable (not necessarily unbaitable though) defensive get out of jail free cards that would even give the other player frame advantage. The amount of characters who could change their air trajectory vs. the lack of decent all-around anti-air options for most characters (too many situational anti-airs needed).

SFV keeps the high damage punishes for bad defensive reads you'd get via FADC in 4 without the dumb defensive measures that came with it.

edit: Oh and let's not forget about the ridiculous multi button OS's, I heard that Xian crouch techs with 4-5 buttons. I do actually remember him doing a video about his crouch techs for Cross-counter asia actually.
Click to expand...

It's bullshit but it's hardly what makes a game kusoge. No infinites, no touch of deathn, no characters is clearly much stronger than the others. Footsies are still important and zoning is legit. There's many other games you could call kusoge before pre ultra SF IV.
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
Of modern traditional fighters? In my mind SF4 is closer to something like Breakers Revenge than any other game, I'm not talking about anime or airdashers here, plenty of shitty games in that genre.

SF4 supports incredibly bad habits with its systems and design choices, that makes it somewhat kusoge to me. I'm glad it's gonna be gone with SFV.
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
In the 6 or so months since I stopped playing SF4 I've had more improvement as an overall player than in the last couple years playing SF4 nearly exclusively ( i can't quit you melty blood).
 
K

Karsticles

Member
DunpealD said:
On a late note. Karsticles was right Dictators OTG seems to be completely useless unless the opponent doesn't tech. It looks like teching is completely invincible.



Interesting notes from the video(not all notes):


The DPs while in animation being a counterhit might possibly already in the Beta. I once crush countered an lp DP with Ryus st.HK.

At this point I wonder what use Ryu's cr.mk, except for being a low, since st.lk is a much better choice right now.
If the change of no more light into medium also affects Ryu's st.lp into st.mp, then st.lp officially has no use anymore outside of being a shitty normal since the only use for it was to link into st.mp.
Click to expand...
Woah. Inferno on QCB is massive. There is pretty much no reason to charge down-back now. You can footsie freely, and now he has all kinds of new setups off of random footsie pokes for massive chip damage. That change is surprising, but welcome.

K.Sabot said:
Universal hurtboxes and simplified juggle systems minus FADC will mean much much less in terms of combo variety in SFV.

I spent the last 3 tests parsing all the possible combo routes with Chun, as well as understanding how her v-trigger juggle system works and I'm sure I've found everything I can with her outside of those specific Desk video situations you mentioned (which is pretty infeasible with the way you can't record atm).

edit: also why they give ryu vanilla sagat st.lk
Click to expand...
Would you be interested in sending me all of Chun's combos?
 
H

Horseress

Member
The concept that "it's ok to be safe after a random dp if you have to spend meter" is another thing SFIV brought, and that's a bad concept
tbh
 
H

Holy Order Sol

Member
Horseress said:
The concept that "it's ok to be safe after a random dp if you have to spend meter" is another thing SFIV brought, and that's a bad concept
tbh
Click to expand...

This is the kind of shit some people have gotten used to thinking of as normal and are surprised other games don't allow it.

Same thing with crouch tech OS. Saw someone complaining about how cr.LP tick throw was going to be too strong in SFV. Makes me wish they'd just make it impossible to tech directly from a crouching position.
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
Karsticles said:
Woah. Inferno on QCB is massive. There is pretty much no reason to charge down-back now. You can footsie freely, and now he has all kinds of new setups off of random footsie pokes for massive chip damage. That change is surprising, but welcome.


Would you be interested in sending me all of Chun's combos?
Click to expand...

Sure but I won't have damage values for them after a power surge bodied my open document. Gonna go recompile most of them.
 
T

Thomasorus

Member
K.Sabot said:
Universal hurtboxes and simplified juggle systems minus FADC will mean much much less in terms of combo variety in SFV.

I spent the last 3 tests parsing all the possible combo routes with Chun, as well as understanding how her v-trigger juggle system works and I'm sure I've found everything I can with her outside of those specific Desk video situations you mentioned (which is pretty infeasible with the way you can't record atm).

edit: also why they give ryu vanilla sagat st.lk
Click to expand...

That's the thing that frightens me a bit about SF5. The game feels great and I have a lot of fun playing it but it's like you say, after a few hours you are running in circles. Maybe it's because the characters in the beta aren't that complicated except for Nash. Necali with two modes and Vega with two stances, Ken with his run may change this feeling.

Crocodile said:

B) I know Ono doesn't rule Capcom but at least when it comes to SF, it seems surreal that he can be so aggressively vetoed with regards to character choices apparently.

Ono: "I'm going to put R. Mika in the game!"
Capcom Suit: "Fuck that bitch, fuck you, no Mika!"
Ono: ;_;

I dunno that scenario seems surreal (if also a bit simplified but whatever)
Click to expand...

It is surreal for a good reason. They are characters people want and characters people don't say they want because they assume they're goig to be in the game no matter what. If Ono gives the SF old fans what they want (Nash, Karin, Mika, etc) he takes the good role of the guy that listens to his community. But he has to remove other characters from the game that you somewhat take for granted like Guile, Blanka, Sagat and Honda to make this happen.

And that's the smart part of all this: you'll find way more people ready to buy Sagat than Mika or Karin. So if you balance correctly and get the number of "take for granted" characters you'll convince people to buy the game, give them characters they didn't want and have them buy the classic world warrior cast or famous SF3 fighters as DLC.
 
H

Horseress

Member
Thomasorus said:
That's the thing that frightens me a bit about SF5. The game feels great and I have a lot of fun playing it but it's like you say, after a few hours you are running in circles. Maybe it's because the characters in the beta aren't that complicated except for Nash. Necali with two modes and Vega with two stances, Ken with his run may change this feeling.
Click to expand...

I think there's more to come. It does feels a bit "empty" as it is now, maybe more v-skills/v-triggers would spice things up
 
P

Producer

Member
K.Sabot said:
Sure but I won't have damage values for them after a power surge bodied my open document. Gonna go recompile most of them.
Click to expand...

Do the stress test that have been going on have any new balance changes? I think i saw someone linking a c.lp after her overhead. That would be a pretty good buff.
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
miku the prodigy said:
Do the stress test that have been going on have any new balance changes? I think i saw someone linking a c.lp after her overhead. That would be a pretty good buff.
Click to expand...

I don't believe anything changed between stress tests. That either was a meaty setup or counterhit without v-trigger because it's +2 on hit according to Toolassisted's frame data (which is not infallible mind you).
 
V

vocab

Member
If SFV is the fighting game where the more experienced player always wins I don't see how you can call it kusoge. SFV's biggest problem is that it's just too safe with the roster selection at this very moment.
 
C

Coda

Member
vocab said:
If SFV is the fighting game where the more experienced player always wins I don't see how you can call it kusoge. SFV's biggest problem is that it's just too safe with the roster selection at this very moment.
Click to expand...

I don't really agree with this statement that's been floating around. I feel like even with the comeback mechanics in SF IV it still was a lot harder to get to the pro level. I feel like SF V feels very noob friendly at the moment and that because of the high damage, decent players could potentially beat pro players. I may be horribly wrong but it feels that way at the moment. Between the easier to perform links, target combos, and simple movesets SF V is really going for the mind game approach than one of tight execution.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Thomasorus said:
Don't worry about this. :)
Click to expand...
The last game had a ton of characters, but no one I found fun. I worry.

Though I could settle for maining Bison at this point. His V-Trigger is Zzz Zzz, but he is otherwise pretty solid.

Tell me there is at least one option for dedicated zoning that won't be gimp, and I am happy.
 
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