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Fighting Games Weekly | Apr 13-19 | This Netkode Is An Injustice

T

Thomasorus

Member
.la1n said:
Your experience does not necessarily equal the experience others are having. Just because you've played 10 matches of lag free MKX does not all of a sudden mean the game is fine. I am not sure what you are trying to imply. I have experienced the issues first hand and have had several other well trusted people document the same.

I am not going to say the game is ass and let's all jump ship but I am not going to lead people into believing the net code for the game is fine when it isn't. I am glad you are having a nice experience so far but a large amount of us are not.

I will be more than happy to sing it's praises on release date and after if things are better once the game is more populated. Right now it isn't, for me.
Click to expand...

I'm implying I'm fucking bored by people jumping to conclusions about this game's netcode. All I read is "bad netcode NRS you shit lol dead gam" from guys that didn't even played the game. And the game isn't even out, fully patched, with a full roster of players to ease the search of opponents online. I mean ok you experienced it and I'm glad I have someone with a real experience to talk about this, but you're the exception and this weekend bored me because of complaints.


All this fuss also made me thought about something else that we can maybe debate here. Maybe a sensitive topic so don't go a war on me for suggesting all this, it's way more to understand the situation that mocking anyone.

Considering that:
  • The internet quality in the US is often shit with low choice and scam providers and little evolution
  • The overall internet quality in western/asian countries continues to rise
  • Some developers DON'T WANT to use rollback netcode
Should we continue to use US players opinions about netcode as a scale as, slowly but surely, the US internet is becoming a tier world internet that can't adapt to common technical requirements? Maybe a middle ground between top notch korea/japan internet and US shitty internet would be more realistic?

Worst case hypothetical scenario: as time passes prerequisites for playing fighting games in the US become too high for most of the players in this country. They have to accept it and move on to HearthStone while the rest of the world can play without any problem. It creates a massive movement from the FGC that goes on class action against internet providers, Ultradavid leading the trial while the Canon brothers are financing the movement behind the scenes.

I need to get some sleep.
 
.la1n

.la1n

Member
Thomasorus said:
I'm implying I'm fucking bored by people jumping to conclusions about this game's netcode. All I read is "bad netcode NRS you shit lol dead gam" from guys that didn't even played the game. And the game isn't even out, fully patched, with a full roster of players to ease the search of opponents online. I mean ok you experienced it and I'm glad I have someone with a real experience to talk about this, but you're the exception and this weekend bored me because of complaints.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from and I am sorry if it came off like I was jumping on you. I just know several of us are having problems so I don't want people to think it's a non issue either. You are right though, it is too early to be jumping on a hate wagon and even more so if people have not even played the game themselves. I know the hive mind can be frustrating when it comes to trying to destroy games before they even get a chance.

I don't want Mortal Kombat X to fail, I love the hell out of it so far. I just wish I was having a better experience with online, hopefully I will post official launch.
 
M

Mr. X

Member
The "move on" comments about people enjoying older titles and not sticking to the new shiny dissimilar games is pissing me off. They are not cars, they dont age and break down and are dangerous to use, each title is its own game. As much as you keep saying the Smash games are still Smash, its fucking wrong, Melee doesnt play like other Smash titles. Nothing plays like ST, A2, A3 or 3S.

This hostility towards keeping old games alive or attracting new blood to them and snubbing them based on age instead of attendance is shit and is a mentality from publishers. They dont make money on the old games, if you want their blessings (money and equipment), you are going run the latest too. They take up space at your event from these new games so keep screwing the byoc.
 
C

CO_Andy

Member
fubarduck said:
When CVS2 came out, it was the hot new thing and everyone and their mom played it. In fact, the first Evo (2002) had CVS2 as a main title with 3rd Strike as a side Exhibition (US vs Japan 5v5).

However, that exhibition BLEW UP 3rd Strike's popularity in the United States.
Click to expand...
At least in my inner circle of buds who were still playing SF at the time, CVS2 was the go-to fighter to play.

They tried 3rd Strike once and said it was too much like old SF; that's from a casual perspective of course.
 
petran79

petran79

Banned
KidA Seven said:
Daigo is 33 turning 34 this year and I think Sako is 2 years older. So he's either 35 or 36 right now.

Mago is also 30 years old now and I think Gamerbee is 32 or 33.
Click to expand...

I read Sako was over 40.

CO_Andy said:
At least in my inner circle of buds who were still playing SF at the time, CVS2 was the go-to fighter to play.

They tried 3rd Strike once and said it was too much like old SF; that's from a casual perspective of course.
Click to expand...

Plus it had no 3D backgrounds. hence why MvC2 and CvSNK2 were more popular. Probably because Soulcalibour had made such an impact
 
M

Mr. X

Member
Like if you think SF4 can scratch an ST itch or MvC3 can satisfy an MvC2 craving or SC5 to SC2 or Sm4sh to Melee, you dont understand this bond.
 
K

Kumubou

Member
Thomasorus said:
All this fuss also made me thought about something else that we can maybe debate here. Maybe a sensitive topic so don't go a war on me for suggesting all this, it's way more to understand the situation that mocking anyone.

Considering that:
  • The internet quality in the US is often shit with low choice and scam providers and little evolution
  • The overall internet quality in western/asian countries continues to rise
  • Some developers DON'T WANT to use rollback netcode
Should we continue to use US players opinions about netcode as a scale as, slowly but surely, the US internet is becoming a tier world internet that can't adapt to common technical requirements? Maybe a middle ground between top notch korea/japan internet and US shitty internet would be more realistic?

Worst case hypothetical scenario: as time passes prerequisites for playing fighting games in the US become too high for most of the players in this country. They have to accept it and move on to HearthStone while the rest of the world can play without any problem. It creates a massive movement from the FGC that goes on class action against internet providers, Ultradavid leading the trial while the Canon brothers are financing the movement behind the scenes.

I need to get some sleep.
Click to expand...
You forgot the part where everyone who signed up for internet service waived their rights to legal representation when they signed up for the service.

Regardless, no having awful netcode in America is not acceptable, mainly because this is already a solved problem. There is no reason why the hacked net play clients for games like IaMP or MBCC work better than almost any commercial game. If some random hobbyist with no access to the game's source can make it work, why can't the developers do that? The quality issues with American ISPs are real but it's a bit overblown, in that even if everyone had godlike fiber connections the sheer size of the country is a problem. The state of Texas by itself is about as large as all of western Europe! Conversely, connection quality elsewhere may rise, but latency is still bound by Internet topography and the laws of physics.

Don't want to use rollbacks? I would tell you tough, but TTT2 and VF5:FS don't and they work better than most games. I don't think people here want miracles, they just want a better experience that we know is possible because other games have done it, but the biggest FG games don't because of Reasons. it's immensely frustrating, especially since it hasn't improved much (and barring Namco, at all) in a decade.
 
ShinMaruku

ShinMaruku

Member
Dahbomb said:
You got that right.

The answer is a Blizzard or Valve made fighting game.

Not gonna lie I would play a Blizzard fighting game. Let me main Illidan son!
Click to expand...

I would not like to see a Blizzard fighting game. Those niggas live by RNG and because of that they can eat a dick, also their balance would make Neople look good. >_>
As for valve? I don't know I just don't trust wester developers to make a good fighting game. But with Valve who knows, But Blizzard? Hell no, It would have to be some Hayashi type shit where somebody else makes it.
 
Z

zlatko

Banned
MKX: Stoked to try out Cassie Cage command grab variation in her alt outfit.

MKX: Least stoked about the DLC characters. Not one I would pay for out of the whole bunch.

If they do readd Smoke, Noob, Rain, Stryker, or Kabal I will be intrigued to pick them up again. I was a Smoke guy in MK9 till I fiddled with Ermac and never went back.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
ShinMaruku said:
I would not like to see a Blizzard fighting game. Those niggas live by RNG and because of that they can eat a dick, also their balance would make Neople look good. >_>
As for valve? I don't know I just don't trust wester developers to make a good fighting game. But with Valve who knows, But Blizzard? Hell no, It would have to be some Hayashi type shit where somebody else makes it.
Click to expand...
Starcraft 2 has RNG mechanics? Must have missed the memo there.
 
F

Fraeon

Member
enzo_gt said:
A few things;

1) I need someone to do the spotlight for next week, so volunteer or nominate someone else in highlighted text, preferably, in the next 24 hours. You can do so using [HIGHLIGHT*][/HIGHLIGHT*] tags, without the asterisk.
Click to expand...

Volunteered.

We need more Tekken people in the house.

And yeah, the MKX situation is just sad. It might be a "not invented here" syndrome type of thing but guys clearly need help with that stuff at this point. I was interested in Kung Lao's Hat Trick variety. Reminds me of Bridget's yoyo.
 
C

commanderpepper

Member
ShinMaruku said:
I would not like to see a Blizzard fighting game. Those niggas live by RNG and because of that they can eat a dick, also their balance would make Neople look good. >_>
As for valve? I don't know I just don't trust wester developers to make a good fighting game. But with Valve who knows, But Blizzard? Hell no, It would have to be some Hayashi type shit where somebody else makes it.
Click to expand...

But ST has elements of RNG http://sonichurricane.com/articles/sf2randomness.html
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
ShinMaruku said:
If you look at the projectiles and what not, you will see RNG. SC2 is not quite booming now is it? And to be honest there is some RNG on counterstrike but that's bullet spread.
Click to expand...
Having minimal RNG like that is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and is not something to get worked up over. Better player/team will always win out in these games and that's what a good competitive game should be about.

ST has way more RNG mechanics yet it is still revered as a classic fighting game. Some fighting games these days also have some minute RNG just to add more flavor to the game.


We are not talking about gross Hearthstone RNG here (which is by design a casual game)... if Blizzard wants to make a competitive fighting game with little to no RNG then they can do it. Whether they can make a good one or a balanced one is a completely different matter but you can bet your candy ass they will have a proper online infrastructure and continued post release support that will dwarf any Capcom or NRS efforts in the past. And what's what we were talking about here... not if Blizzard was or wasn't going to include RNG in a fighter.
 
T

Thomasorus

Member
.la1n said:
I understand where you are coming from and I am sorry if it came off like I was jumping on you. I just know several of us are having problems so I don't want people to think it's a non issue either. You are right though, it is too early to be jumping on a hate wagon and even more so if people have not even played the game themselves. I know the hive mind can be frustrating when it comes to trying to destroy games before they even get a chance.

I don't want Mortal Kombat X to fail, I love the hell out of it so far. I just wish I was having a better experience with online, hopefully I will post official launch.
Click to expand...

I'm not a huge fan of MK but I have a lot of sympathy for the series and to be honest, SF4 needs a serious competitor. I'm afraid that despite being a good game, SF5 will be a lazy game.

Kumubou said:
You forgot the part where everyone who signed up for internet service waived their rights to legal representation when they signed up for the service.

Regardless, no having awful netcode in America is not acceptable, mainly because this is already a solved problem. There is no reason why the hacked net play clients for games like IaMP or MBCC work better than almost any commercial game. If some random hobbyist with no access to the game's source can make it work, why can't the developers do that? The quality issues with American ISPs are real but it's a bit overblown, in that even if everyone had godlike fiber connections the sheer size of the country is a problem. The state of Texas by itself is about as large as all of western Europe! Conversely, connection quality elsewhere may rise, but latency is still bound by Internet topography and the laws of physics.

Don't want to use rollbacks? I would tell you tough, but TTT2 and VF5:FS don't and they work better than most games. I don't think people here want miracles, they just want a better experience that we know is possible because other games have done it, but the biggest FG games don't because of Reasons. it's immensely frustrating, especially since it hasn't improved much (and barring Namco, at all) in a decade.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, that sure helps to understand how US players can feel.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
I'm just happy Capcom is basing their SF5 netcode on SFxT's rollback code.

If they can actually improve what they did there, that should be fine.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
This week's title, Goddamn.

My copy of the game shipped. I should be getting MKX tomorrow. Dunno if I'll be playing it as much right away though because I have Super Robot Wars, lol
 
B

BadWolf

Member
Thomasorus said:
I'm not a huge fan of MK but I have a lot of sympathy for the series and to be honest, SF4 needs a serious competitor. I'm afraid that despite being a good game, SF5 will be a lazy game.
Click to expand...

It looks like anything but that so far.

And according to Ono it will be very different to what people are used to with SF. Not to mention he is clearly trying to expand the competitive scene in a big way.
 
A

Azure J

Member
Mr. X said:
The "move on" comments about people enjoying older titles and not sticking to the new shiny dissimilar games is pissing me off. They are not cars, they dont age and break down and are dangerous to use, each title is its own game. As much as you keep saying the Smash games are still Smash, its fucking wrong, Melee doesnt play like other Smash titles. Nothing plays like ST, A2, A3 or 3S.

This hostility towards keeping old games alive or attracting new blood to them and snubbing them based on age instead of attendance is shit and is a mentality from publishers. They dont make money on the old games, if you want their blessings (money and equipment), you are going run the latest too. They take up space at your event from these new games so keep screwing the byoc.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed.

I legit will never understand these sentiments when people use them in arguments against me. This is like the polar opposite to people shitting on everything new ever because it isn't the old game, but it's just as annoying and far more prevalent especially when discussing competitive games nowadays. It's so strange.

Edit: Jeezus @ that Smash CFL thing on the last page... I would play all the Smash titles I could if I had the time and people to play with. Hearing stories like that is just a total buzzkill.
 
M

Mr. X

Member
BadWolf said:
It looks like anything but that so far.

And according to Ono it will be very different to what people are used to with SF. Not to mention he is clearly trying to expand the competitive scene in a big way.
Click to expand...
Calling bullshit. Capcom has been pushing that rhetoric about 3S when SF4 was a return to basics, no way it'll be "very different" from SF, let alone SF4.

As long as it has Strret Fighter characters, they can do whatever though.
 
B

BadWolf

Member
Mr. X said:
Calling bullshit. Capcom has been pushing that rhetoric about 3S when SF4 was a return to basics, no way it'll be "very different" from SF, let alone SF4.

As long as it has Strret Fighter characters, they can do whatever though.
Click to expand...

http://www.gamesradar.com/yoshinori-ono-says-street-fighter-5-pc-ps4/

“We’ve been working on Street Fighter 4 for the past seven years now. There’s been a lot of rebalancing and so on, but the game is still going strong, even today.” says Ono. “All this means that, with Street Fighter 5, we have a fantastic opportunity to create something with a larger scope, a game that encompasses all that Street Fighter has become in the last few years, but which also expands on that to become something it has never been before as well. So now we want to create something that nobody is expecting. It’s going to be a title that caters to fans, of course, but one that also invites completely new players onto the scene. Street Fighter 4 was about reviving a passion. Street Fighter 5 is about growing that passion.”
Click to expand...

Normals doing damage on block alone is a huge change.
 
T

Thomasorus

Member
Mr. X said:
Calling bullshit. Capcom has been pushing that rhetoric about 3S when SF4 was a return to basics, no way it'll be "very different" from SF, let alone SF4.

As long as it has Strret Fighter characters, they can do whatever though.
Click to expand...

From what I know, it will be different, but not that different. Basically the game will be a kind of "groove per character" game and I trust them to make it playable and enjoyable (I'm quite hyped by the gameplay). It's all the package around it I'm afraid of: explaining mechanics, adding content that will please all audiences, online options, involve the community outside of pure fighting game fans, etc...
 
Laws00

Laws00

Member
enzo_gt said:
A few things;

1) I need someone to do the spotlight for next week, so volunteer or nominate someone else in highlighted text, preferably, in the next 24 hours. You can do so using [HIGHLIGHT*][/HIGHLIGHT*] tags, without the asterisk.
Click to expand...

I'm interested but then again it's like who is this guy in the first place lol
I volunteer myself to see if I make it
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Mr. X said:
Calling bullshit. Capcom has been pushing that rhetoric about 3S when SF4 was a return to basics, no way it'll be "very different" from SF, let alone SF4.

As long as it has Strret Fighter characters, they can do whatever though.
Click to expand...

I'd say every mainline sf is very different. They're not saying anything new for me..
 
C

Csr

Member
Mr. X said:
Calling bullshit. Capcom has been pushing that rhetoric about 3S when SF4 was a return to basics, no way it'll be "very different" from SF, let alone SF4.

As long as it has Strret Fighter characters, they can do whatever though.
Click to expand...

SFxT had street fighter characters too though.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Thomasorus said:
You're wrong on both. :p
Click to expand...
It was obviously a joke referencing to a time when Ono swore up and down that no one in the community would figure out the mystery 5th character for USF4 when most people knew it was Decapre.

"GUYS ITS TOTALLY NOT SOMEONE YOU EXPECTED!"
 
H

Horseress

Member
Dahbomb said:
It was obviously a joke referencing to a time when Ono swore up and down that no one in the community would figure out the mystery 5th character for USF4 when most people knew it was Decapre.

"GUYS ITS TOTALLY NOT SOMEONE YOU EXPECTED!"
Click to expand...

"only four people on the internet got it right" - Ono-san 2014
 
V

Village

Member
Dahbomb said:
It was obviously a joke referencing to a time when Ono swore up and down that no one in the community would figure out the mystery 5th character for USF4 when most people knew it was Decapre.

"GUYS ITS TOTALLY NOT SOMEONE YOU EXPECTED!"
Click to expand...

Guile confirmed
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
How the Merovingian plays Smash

tumblr_nfj0y1FssV1qdzoq5o1_1280.jpg
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
Sony only co-developed the game because they wanted to get into the Tournament Organizing business, everybody knows that's where the real money is
 
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