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[BakedYams]

Yea Dorm is probably one of the coolest characters ever conceived in a fighting game. They just nailed him in every aspect...he's even fucking balanced

Stop it, you're making me want a balance patch for marvel.....

 

[WesternHeretic]

Stop it, you're making me want a balance patch for marvel.....

Let it die in peace man.

 

[Marz]

Stop it, you're making me want a balance patch for marvel.....

But then your main man wolverine would be normalized...

 

[Dahbomb]

Dormammu spells is one of the best mechanics taken from DOTA (Invoker spell mechanic) and put into a fighting game. Absolutely brilliant. It's too bad that Strange's glyph counterparts aren't anywhere near as interesting.

But then your main man wolverine would be normalized...

Wolverine is about as balanced as Dorm. Only real issue with Wolverine is his damage, no different from Dorm either. Both do baby combos for big damage and in the case of Dorm his cap for meterless damage is higher thanks to spells. Only tools from both that are questionable are Wolverine's Fatal Claw loops (its arguable that the main culprit is the damage of super) and Dorm's Flame Carpet unblockable set ups.

They both are almost always rated within the same tier as well.

 

[BakedYams]

But then your main man wolverine would be normalized...

They already nerfed him enough as it is from vanilla, what more do they want?! Take off ground bounce from his dive kick? He'd be useless then!

Besides the point, if a "true" balance can be achieved, I'm willing to become a low tier hero if it ever boils down to it.

Dormammu spells is one of the best mechanics taken from DOTA (Invoker spell mechanic) and put into a fighting game. Absolutely brilliant. It's too bad that Strange's glyph counterparts aren't anywhere near as interesting.


Wolverine is about as balanced as Dorm. Only real issue with Wolverine is his damage, no different from Dorm either. Both do baby combos for big damage and in the case of Dorm his cap for meterless damage is higher thanks to spells. Only tools from both that are questionable are Wolverine's Fatal Claw loops (its arguable that the main culprit is the damage of super) and Dorm's Flame Carpet unblockable set ups.

They both are almost always rated within the same tier as well.

The fatal claw loops come at the price of a bar with his berserker mode, so its pretty fair in my eyes. If Wolverine were to get a nerf, his health is too damn high, 950,000 if I'm not mistaken (if I am, welp). Besides, the most he can do by himself is around a million but thats corner only, character specific and cost two meters.

 

[QisTopTier]

Can't wait for the BB patch, it's nice to play games that are supported

 

[bfwings55]

guys vergil killed marvel

i hate you capcom

 

[Uraizen]

Can't wait for the BB patch, it's nice to play games that are supported

I'm going to have to step back from my PC so I don't catch fire because someone just got burned.

Spoiler

lol

 

[Azure J]

Just go into training mode and do the Big Bang. After that, it is statistically impossible not to like the character.

For me it was seeing Inferno melt health at the tip of the eruption.

 

[Rhapsody]

I noticed I've been getting burned out from fighters lately. My hype for Xrd is just me waiting for console release right now, BB I've tired myself out for a bit, SF4 I have a lot of catching up to do, and etc. Going to have to pick up the slack before Evo. :/

Regardless, still looking forward to Smash 4 though.

Edit: Looks like Evo early bird registration should be over.

 

[toddhunter]

Can't wait for the BB patch, it's nice to play games that are supported

You could pass the time by playing playstation all stars.

 

[MisterLuffy]

This is some interesting read on EH about PR Rog stating the reason why Japan are more advantage than U.S. I don't know if this reason was stated before.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...each-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/?page=1

And here are the comments I want to share even though most of the people agrees with him. I choose them because it's highlighted in green which their comments were rated up, but definitely answers the question, and it made sense to me. What do you guys think?

Some people in the scene have been saying hey lets do training sessions together and make the scene better for years. Some players don’t bother going to sessions because they don’t want their tech figured out. The fact that this discussion is now being taken serious only after PR Balrog got his butt handed to him is a testament that it will take years for this scene to begin to get to the level it needs to, to grow.

I have said it myself the play style of Japanese players and Americans are totally different. I didn’t need to travel to Japan and get beat up to know this. In this country it’s straight to top tier characters and gimmicks. UMVC 3 is a prime example. There is tech out here with multiple characters but people don’t take the time to find out; they go to what is easy: Vergil, Morrigan, Wesker etc. When the Rocket Raccoon player came from Japan that one year and bodied everyone you started seeing more raccoon players. We don’t innovate over here, we copy.

Dear pr balrog and top players

Stop charging for knowledge (not directed at pr rog) for us to level up. Not only does not everyone have money to just give out like that. Second is please stop being "hollywood" to people who arent trolling you but ask and seek out help. I have veen shunned by 95 % of top players because im not super skilled or known.

I do my part and practice and look up vids etc but as you can see its still not enough. So long as you guys continue to be selfish usa will always be free in the highest level of competition around tge entire world. Topanga shouldn't have been the first sign that usa is mid tier at highest level of play due to our scene not helping everyone out.

 

[enzo_gt]

This is some interesting read on EH about PR Rog stating the reason why Japan are more advantage than U.S. I don't know if this reason was stated before.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...each-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/?page=1

And here are the comments I picked that made sense to me and it stood out from the rest since it's highlighted in green.

We see someone come around and say this every few months, and nothing changes.

I can see why people would not care about competing with other countries in general though, and for similar reasons, not really be motivated to get everyone to step their shit up. Takes strong personalities or "drama" to get people on their game.

 

[Marz]

Dormammu spells is one of the best mechanics taken from DOTA (Invoker spell mechanic) and put into a fighting game. Absolutely brilliant. It's too bad that Strange's glyph counterparts aren't anywhere near as interesting.


Wolverine is about as balanced as Dorm. Only real issue with Wolverine is his damage, no different from Dorm either. Both do baby combos for big damage and in the case of Dorm his cap for meterless damage is higher thanks to spells. Only tools from both that are questionable are Wolverine's Fatal Claw loops (its arguable that the main culprit is the damage of super) and Dorm's Flame Carpet unblockable set ups.

They both are almost always rated within the same tier as well.

Yea you're right.


As for this Japan>US stuff, I don't think they're that much better than us. I think PR Balrog is not really the type of person to send over there, I think Wong or Snakeyez would be a lot better in long sets like that.

PR gets frustrated and starts playing bad, you rarely see Justin and a few others over here get mentally broken.

Japans mid level players are a lot better though.

And this is just for Street Fighter, I actually think Korea is the overall best country for fighting games.

 

[Professor Beef]

[Purgatory Semi Finals] - Spyder (Kefka) vs LuckySeven (Sephiroth)

[Purgatory LB R5] Kuroraikiri (Warrior of Light/Tifa) vs Sys (Gabranth)

[Purgatory WB Finals] Spyder (Kefka) vs Dart (Exdeath/Cloud)

[Purgatory LB R6] CloudVII(Kain) vs X-Striker(Tidus/Vaan)

[Purgatory LB R6] Mogstache(Squall) vs Seraph(Sephiroth/Zidane)

 

[gutabo]

...and Chris G is living it up at another tournament...

Yup. 1st AE2012 and UMvC3, 5th KoF13.

All Nemo has to do snap in Vergil early and figure out how the ShadyK mix up works (as he got hit by it over 10 times).

I didn't have the chance to play marvel 3, how are you supposed to block it?

 

[Seyavesh]

I didn't have the chance to play marvel 3, how are you supposed to block it?

from what i understand it's like you always block crossup- if he does a L or M teleport you have a split second to react and block it while you're landing rather than immediately getting hit crossup

the big thing is that it doesn't look like a crossup at -all- when he does it right because he very clearly appears in front of your character

the annoying thing is recognizing whether he's doing it or not because i think it only works if he does a jump boomerang (??)- if he does the grounded one then you're still in the ol' guessing game of the regular vergil incoming mixup.

 

[Ragingnight]

The vergil incoming mixup is based on the timing of when he releases the sword and when your character comes in. If he does it to late then its not a crossup. If he does it right then its a straight up 50/50 and not even the vergil player has a clue. Basically its the H teleport tricking you that its same side, but your character falls forward so you cross up vergil and it can become a crossup with the round trip going back to vergil.

They do the round trip in the air because it locks you down. If they do it on the ground then some characters can escape the mixup.

shadyk video explaining it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbY2kvp-om0

 

[Rice-Eater]

And this is just for Street Fighter, I actually think Korea is the overall best country for fighting games.

This is what Kaneblueriver had to say about the Korean FGC when he was there for ID Global Tournament. It was actually a response to a question I was asking about why the tournament was so devoid of Korean players

I've had some insight on the Korean FGC, and it's pretty ungrateful, really. Most players outside of Tekken are online monsters and no one would pay for stuff. They only like free tournaments, at least the non-top players. Also, there are barely any KOFXIII players outside of the core of CafeId, the Marvel community can be counted with 2 hands and they won't go because they feel like they'd be burning money, and SF4 is an unknown number because everyone only plays online, as I said.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/8745572/#Comment_8745572

So pretty much it's Tekken land and everybody else is NAH/VF status. If we're talking about which country has the best overall fighting game players than I can't see how the US and Japan wouldn't always be 1-2 in some order just because of raw numbers.

A

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Is the arcade scene in Korea active like Japan?

 

[toddhunter]

This is some interesting read on EH about PR Rog stating the reason why Japan are more advantage than U.S. I don't know if this reason was stated before.

I'm not American so feel free to discount my opinion (which I'm sure you have all learnt to do by now anyway), but I kind of call bullshit on this. All you see from the FGC in the US are weekly streams, videos, heaps of majors and whatever else that should all be contributing to players sharing information.

Even if you did away with the protection/collusion/super friends mentality of some people, who exactly does PR Balrog think people will learn from? Is sharing going to help people know how to do divekickdivekickdivekick ex-messiah and hope for the best?

I don't see the sharing of information as the problem, I see the problem is generating information in the first place. To overcome this, places like America or Australia would either need to get a lot more players, compress it all geographically or massively upgrade their internet to match something like Japan.

But since that isn't going to happen anytime soon, you just need to put in more work. Step one would be amazingly talented people like Justin, Ricky Ortiz and even PR Balrog himself learning at least another character to help in bad matchups. Until that level of effort is being put in, you'll never match the top players who do the work, no matter where they are from.

 

[WesternHeretic]

Korea is too busy playing League of Legends, and Starcraft to care about the FGC.

We too hood for them!

I'm not American so feel free to discount my opinion (which I'm sure you have all learnt to do by now anyway), but I kind of call bullshit on this. All you see from the FGC in the US are weekly streams, videos, heaps of majors and whatever else that should all be contributing to players sharing information.

Even if you did away with the protection/collusion/super friends mentality of some people, who exactly does PR Balrog think people will learn from? Is sharing going to help people know how to do divekickdivekickdivekick ex-messiah and hope for the best?

I don't see the sharing of information as the problem, I see the problem is generating information in the first place. To overcome this, places like America or Australia would either need to get a lot more players, compress it all geographically or massively upgrade their internet to match something like Japan.

But since that isn't going to happen anytime soon, you just need to put in more work. Step one would be amazingly talented people like Justin, Ricky Ortiz and even PR Balrog himself learning at least another character to help in bad matchups. Until that level of effort is being put in, you'll never match the top players who do the work, no matter where they are from.

What I got out of PR Balrog is that in Japan they understand why they are doing "xxx." And in America we just do "xxx" because it works, without any thought behind it. They play to be perfect to be the best they can, we play just good enough to beat the guy sitting next to us.

 

[alstein]

I think in the poverty community you see more folks helping each other out as a percentage than you do with the mainstream games, but some of that is because people want better comp.

The problem is a higher percentage of a tiny number is still pretty tiny. I remember at MLG GT was going around telling everything what they were doing wrong if they asked before destroying them. He was really helpful that weekend. I've seen other top VF players do the same thing. Learned a lot about my mental weaknesses.

 

[call_kotaku]

Reminds me of the book I'm reading right now called "The Art of Learning" about a child prodigy chess champion who later became a world tai chi push hands champion. There's a part where he describes the tournament circuit for young chess players. Most kids are taught a bunch of openings and prepared very thoroughly to win games within the first couple of turns, but aren't really taught how to play the endgame because that would require cultivating a deep understanding of how the game and the pieces work, which isn't efficient because everyone involved just wants the most wins for least amount of effort. It's just a natural consequence of looking for short term results instead of long-term gains.

I think tournaments/majors being so common but the player pool being relatively stagnant makes people focus on simple effective strategies and ignore anything that would be too time-consuming or too difficult to be useful. It's why it's so rare for top players to switch characters or develop too many of their own setups/teams, because they'd rather practice what they already know so they can do well at the major in 2 weeks.

 

[toddhunter]

What I got out of PR Balrog is that in Japan they understand why they are doing "xxx." And in America we just do "xxx" because it works, without any thought behind it. They play to be perfect to be the best they can, we play just good enough to beat the guy sitting next to us.

That makes sense, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing if the guy next to you is constantly improving.

The best thing that could happen to American SF is if team EG got in some big fight somehow and went different ways. I think then you would have the best players pushing against each other and the rest of the country could be lifted along with them.

If only the FGC was better at creating drama...

I think tournaments/majors being so common but the player pool being relatively stagnant makes people focus on simple effective strategies and ignore anything that would be too time-consuming or too difficult to be useful. It's why it's so rare for top players to switch characters or develop too many of their own setups/teams, because they'd rather practice what they already know so they can do well at the major in 2 weeks.

That is another good point. It would be nice if the top American guys could beat the Japanese. But this is only what, once a year? Maybe not even that depending on what is being held. It is a tough sell.

 

[Tizoc]

More to come later!

3 Hours of Puyo Puyo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQYaYy-5npE

90 mins. of Dengeki Bunko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pywK3oqVhtM

1 Hour of KoF 13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTlM3ljs7ZU

1 Hour of Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 3 matches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMOfXjptU6I

3 Hours of Guilty Gear Xrd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8mjXzsDlNY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5eOalKi8N4

Street Fighter X Tekken matches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_2XBlS8sd0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY_C6cpaiGA

Street Fighter III 3S matches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeTiH2YHIqw

4+ Hours of Tekken Tag 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMna6XN1r-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUGfHpE16v0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi8GoWCowxk

90 mins. of DoA 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOznlqgkKF4

3 Hours of Bullet Hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YRrSchmenA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S01yhlTruIc

6+ Hours of BlazBlue CP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF3qW4sF0_c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK_vF7pFIpw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9HuvM1a998
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEKZ3JjZu9w

 

[Toski]

Korea is too busy playing League of Legends, and Starcraft to care about the FGC.

We too hood for them!



What I got out of PR Balrog is that in Japan they understand why they are doing "xxx." And in America we just do "xxx" because it works, without any thought behind it. They play to be perfect to be the best they can, we play just good enough to beat the guy sitting next to us.

One thing I've noticed is that if the US doesn't "own" something, we don't care. Losing at soccer, Starcraft, and Street Fighter is "ok" because we don't own it. When Kusoru came over and beat us at Marvel, we were in a right tizzy. When America kept getting put out of international basketball in the mid 2000s, we cared and resumed putting NBA superstars on international teams.

PR Rog isn't saying anything that various other players haven't said before, but for some reason we don't care enough to do it for Street Fighter.

 

[Shito]

But since that isn't going to happen anytime soon, you just need to put in more work. Step one would be amazingly talented people like Justin, Ricky Ortiz and even PR Balrog himself learning at least another character to help in bad matchups. Until that level of effort is being put in, you'll never match the top players who do the work, no matter where they are from.

PR Rog is messing around with Fei and E.Ryu quite a lot.
Didn't see the first three days, but yesterday he hesitated on picking up E.Ryu when playing Fuudo.
I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion, though, since japanese players usually only have one and only main, and rarely counter-pick the bad match-ups.

 

[WesternHeretic]

One thing I've noticed is that if the US doesn't "own" something, we don't care. Losing at soccer, Starcraft, and Street Fighter is "ok" because we don't own it. When Kusoru came over and beat us at Marvel, we were in a right tizzy. When America kept getting put out of international basketball in the mid 2000s, we cared and resumed putting NBA superstars on international teams.

PR Rog isn't saying anything that various other players haven't said before, but for some reason we don't care enough to do it for Street Fighter.

If any country ever beats us at American football I'm going to have an epic meltdown.

You're right though and with SF it has been historically dominated by Japan. Marvel we held the title so long we feel a sense of entitlement to it.

 

[toddhunter]

I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion, though, since japanese players usually only have one and only main, and rarely counter-pick the bad match-ups.

Firstly, I'm not sure that is true, but more importantly it is relevant because those players actually win.

When they don't, like Daigo's Ryu gets beaten...he comes back better with something new (as per his Xian and Infiltration "matches").

 

[Aquashark]

If any country ever beats us at American football I'm going to have an epic meltdown.

provided anyone else would play it.. hue hue

 

[pixelish]

kawaii~~ :3

 

[Silky]

Dissidia matches are hype, what in the hell

 

[SimSimIV]

I think a japanese USF4 stream will be going Down in about 30 min:
http://live.nicovideo.jp/gate/lv174889442

From what I can understand from this tweet:
https://twitter.com/papatiwawa/status/455660727471071232

 

[Fersis]

Hey OP could you add NCR2014 http://norcalregionals.com/ to the first post?

NORCAL REGIONALS 2014

April 18-20, 2014

Holiday Day Inn Capitol Plaza
300 J Street, Sacramento, California

 

[casperOne]

For me it was seeing Inferno melt health at the tip of the eruption.

FGW | Just the tip

This is some interesting read on EH about PR Rog stating the reason why Japan are more advantage than U.S. I don't know if this reason was stated before.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...each-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/?page=1

SMH at not being able to properly embed tweets (which is also a violation of Twitter policy IIRC).

What do you guys think?

We see someone come around and say this every few months, and nothing changes.

It's been like this for a long time. It's definitely not as bleak as Eduardo makes it out to be. Perhaps at the level that he plays at it is, but in the scene in general, it's not.

It could be better, but the FGC's willingness to help has evolved tremendously over the last decade.

However, Japan has always broken down games and disseminated that information extremely well. We're not nearly there yet, and even if we were, I don't feel that would mean we'd be better.

compress it all geographically...

you just need to put in more work...

Yep and yep.

If only the FGC was better at creating drama...

I see what you did there.

That is another good point. It would be nice if the top American guys could beat the Japanese.

Getting even more difficult now; it used to be just Japan and the US; whether it was because we just ignored the rest of the world or we were really the two that were on top (although the US is a distant second) doesn't really matter.

But in the last two-three years you've seen high-level competition grow so much internationally that it's a free-for-all now.

Just look at how strong Infiltration was in a year or two ago compared to now (not that he's not strong now, but he was practically unbeatable then).

 

[casperOne]

Love that Evo moment 37 has the notoriety that it has.

See this comment from Imgur on an image of Chun cosplay:

http://imgur.com/gallery/N19dutP/comment/209255599

Spoiler

Eventhubs filler article in 3.. 2.. 1..

 

[Shito]

Firstly, I'm not sure that is true, but more importantly it is relevant because those players actually win.

When they don't, like Daigo's Ryu gets beaten...he comes back better with something new (as per his Xian and Infiltration "matches").

Maybe it's just me, but I can't remember that many japanese players playing different characters. At least at top level. Some of them try something new from time to time, but they either change main completely , or go back to their old one.

 

[toddhunter]

Maybe it's just me, but I can't remember that many japanese players playing different characters. At least at top level. Some of them try something new from time to time, but they either change main completely , or go back to their old one.

Well you have Daigo with Ryu, Guile and Yun. Mago doesn't hesitate to counter pick, Sako with Ibuki, Cammy and Evil Ryu. Kazunoko has mixed it up in the different versions as has Momochi (cody, makoto and Akuma), Haitani (Makoto and Rufus) and there are plenty of others.

Chasing a top tier? Maybe, but the point is they have all explored different options for an extra edge. I'm sure we'll see more changes again in Ultra rather than just complaining on twitter and doing the exact same thing (assuming they don't all complain anyway, just in Japanese).

At the moment you hear a lot of "I'm changing to Yang" or "Elena is going to be my main!". I think it is a safe bet that lasts a week and it is back to lol ex-messiah to cruise into the pot split zone.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Dissidia matches are hype, what in the hell

They should make part 3 on the vita imo

 

[oneida]

You could pass the time by playing playstation all stars.

someone was playing this at my fight night on Saturday
except no one was playing with him so he was playing online ;__;

 

[poopninjamvc3mk]

someone was playing this at my fight night on Saturday
except no one was playing with him so he was playing online ;__;

 

[Kumubou]

Maybe it's just me, but I can't remember that many japanese players playing different characters. At least at top level. Some of them try something new from time to time, but they either change main completely , or go back to their old one.

I think a lot of this is because of how Japanese tournaments work. Specifically, they all tend to have character locks, so you can't counterpick even if you wanted to.

 

[toddhunter]

I think a lot of this is because of how Japanese tournaments work. Specifically, they all tend to have character locks, so you can't counterpick even if you wanted to.

That too. America to adopt character lock, single elimination.

 

[CommandThrower]

someone was playing this at my fight night on Saturday
except no one was playing with him so he was playing online ;__;

Damn, that makes me sad. So far, I've only had one person locally to play Killer Instinct with me. I've got to travel much further south to see if anybody wants to play it.

Then again, I'm starting to believe that the best way to play fighting games is to play super-long sessions with one person. It's what I did with Guilty Gear XX back in the day, and it's what I currently do with VF. I love it.

 

[Shito]

I think a lot of this is because of how Japanese tournaments work. Specifically, they all tend to have character locks, so you can't counterpick even if you wanted to.

Ah yeah, that's right, that probably has a lot to do with it. That's why they usually tend to try different characters in order to change their main rather than simply to fight bad match-ups.
Mystery solved!

 

[onionfrog]

Nice interview Karst.
...But 200 characters? They could never balance that, especially not Capcom!

I agree with the idea of a single game getting long term support and new content expansions ala SF4 though.

I want Capcom All Stars to be real! ;_;
C'mon E3!

 

[Beckx]

Man after this weekend I wish Sega would revive Virtual On with a real follow up to VOOT (and pretend Force/Marz never existed). Well played VO matches are just amazing to watch. Most people just go ham but when you watch players play their character properly and technically well the game is incredible.

I know robot fighting isn't high on the tier list here (and dead 15 year old games lower than that) but check out Grand Finals from Vector Strike and I guarantee* you'll be entertained.

 

[Kalamari]

Yup. 1st AE2012 and UMvC3, 5th KoF13.

Caught mid-rock, paper, scissors game.

 

[Thomasorus]

Damn there's a USF4 stream on nico with Momochi playing blanka and you can't watch without being kicked and asked to pay. Fuck Nico. http://live.nicovideo.jp/gate/lv174889442