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Fighting Games Weekly | Aug 18-24 | Fall back, u nerd

H

Horseress

Member
Karsticles said:
Maybe it harms casual play by demystifying the process, or something? We're all technical here. We love numbers and boxes. Finding a new frame trap or blockstring earlier is wonderful for us. But casual players might just get annoyed faster. Just a hypothetical.
Click to expand...

I don't think casual players understand all those funny boxes with different colors, I don't think they even care about them. Even some top players don't care about hitboxes/frame data
 
C

casperOne

Member
enzo_gt said:
For those that missed all the alleged leaks, here they are all in one place.
Click to expand...

Let's hope they kept the ice climber infinite in.

Flying High said:
Yooooooo this Claw mixup at 1 minute in GOD DAMN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW5mA_gVmt4
Click to expand...

That's prewtty sick.

Kumubou said:
Reading those quotes... they don't even want any gameplay on Youtube. Which is so ass backwards it's amazing, but :japan:. If they really want any footage up on Youtube, they can C&D it themselves. If they ever ask me to take down anything from anything I have control over, I'm just going to openly say now that they can go pound sand.
Click to expand...

For most people, this probably makes a lot of sense. However, if you're looking to have a longer term relationship with the developers (for whatever reason), then this probably isn't the best way to go.

Kumubou said:
If they really want to shut down my Youtube channel over it or send copyright notices (of some dubious standing -- I would make the argument that trying to copyright frame data and other raw performance data is akin to copyrighting statistics in sports) to my hosting provider, then they can go do that.
Click to expand...

I disagree that it's dubious at all. It's not performance data, it's engine mechanics. It's not how people utilized it, it's the mechanism which was utilized.

Even if you win the argument that a single move has say, x frames of startup, you'd face the challenge as to whether or not you've infringed on their collection of the data, order of representation, etc. For frame data, this is the same in most cases, it's aggregated by move, then by character.

Karsticles said:
Maybe it harms casual play by demystifying the process, or something? We're all technical here. We love numbers and boxes. Finding a new frame trap or blockstring earlier is wonderful for us. But casual players might just get annoyed faster. Just a hypothetical.
Click to expand...

You mean they'd get annoyed because the skill gap would widen faster? I can see that. If you're saying they'd get annoyed because it's out there and they'd have to overcome the difficulty of consuming it, then I don't get it, because it's not like they have to consume it (and most casual players don't).
 
K

Kimosabae

Banned
.la1n said:
This and Harada not wanting to display frame data is some of the most bizarre mindsets. It's not like it doesn't get out anyway, why not support it or include it in the game.
Click to expand...

I don't find it bizarre at all. It's a matter of perception. Being handed quantification tools immediately changes someone's approach to a game, assuming they understand them, and you risk scaring them away with the explanations if they don't understand them. You want people of all levels to ease into your game at their own pace, but providing too much information beyond the basics can overwhelm someone just getting started. Videos of optimized gameplay provide the same risk.


Personally, I miss the days when you just sat down and just played a fighting game with friends long enough to find out whether you actually enjoyed the game or not; before you scurried off to the nearest youtube tutorial/forum to optimize your gameplay. I think that's what made UNIEL appealing to me when I played it for the first time a few weeks back. No one knew anything, and the game felt fresh and exciting. Two weeks in, and all I see now is optimized Gordaeus and Walsteins at my locals.

Meh.


Old man.. clouds... etc.
 
M

MikeBreezy92

Member
Kimosabae said:
I don't find it bizarre at all. It's a matter of perception. Being handed quantification tools immediately changes someone's approach to a game, assuming they understand them, and you risk scaring them away with the explanations if they don't understand them. You want people of all levels to ease into your game at their own pace, but providing too much information beyond the basics can overwhelm someone just getting started. Videos of optimized gameplay provide the same risk.
Click to expand...

I think for Tekken it harms the learning process more than it helps. 2D fighters you can get away with that. Not so much in 3D fighters.
 
N

Nyoro SF

Member
Arc system works is showing some extreme backwards thinking here. The only people that use those tools are a small subset of your fans so why go out of your way to ruin their tools?

Now a great information source is about to disappear not only for current games but future games too.

Hell they even wrote in an email that they don't approve of match footage being uploaded. They're quite the insane company.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
casperOne said:
Cue Nintendo/Evo 2013 reference.
Click to expand...
I didn't say that one! :-O

casperOne said:
You mean they'd get annoyed because the skill gap would widen faster? I can see that. If you're saying they'd get annoyed because it's out there and they'd have to overcome the difficulty of consuming it, then I don't get it, because it's not like they have to consume it (and most casual players don't).
Click to expand...
I think both can be factors. But I was leaning more toward the latter. A lot of people who buy fighting games just want to mash. If the game adds all this technical stuff, you feel like you need to learn it. I know that when I bought BBCS, I sat through hours of tutorials that drove me mad with boredom. I think I spent more time in tutorials, training mode, and trials than I did playing before quitting. Blech.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Nyoro SF said:
Arc system works is showing some extreme backwards thinking here. The only people that use those tools are a small subset of your fans so why go out of your way to ruin their tools?
Click to expand...
It makes the people in charge of these decisions happy over in Japan and it won't stop these consumers from buying the game. Sounds like everyone wins.
 
A

Anne

Member
I think it has less to do with gameplay and community stuff and more to do with the fact ASW has always been weird and selective about how people acquire and use their assets. Not the first time they've done something like this.

Not a whole lot of point in speculating why, at the end of the day it's just going to be shitty anyways.
 
K

Kikirin

Member
Kimosabae said:
Personally, I miss the days when you just sat down and just played a fighting game with friends long enough to find out whether you actually enjoyed the game or not; before you scurried off to the nearest youtube tutorial/forum to optimize your gameplay. I think that's what made UNIEL appealing to me when I played it for the first time a few weeks back. No one knew anything, and the game felt fresh and exciting. Two weeks in, and all I see now is optimized Gordaeus and Walsteins at my locals.

Meh.

Old man.. clouds... etc.
Click to expand...

This is how I feel about Pokemon within my group of friends. That isn't to say that I hate having the metagame be so competitive, but ain't nobody got time to roll for optimum IVs and egg moves while digesting all the new possibilities the new gen offers.
 
P

pixelish

Member
hey enzo, there will be a cpt asia qualifier happening in korea this weekend. perhaps you can add this to the op?

http://www.razerzone.com/capcomprotour-asia/

EDIT: pc ultra public beta test is now live (http://steamcommunity.com/app/45760/discussions/0/34095684441521237/)

Change log
Bug fixes:
Fixed an issue where data is sent to other lobbies even after a user has already entered a lobby / match
Fixed an issue where data is continuously sent to other lobbies even after cancelling a custom lobby search
Set a limit on the number of lobbies joinable at one time by player with fight request turned ON
Fixed an issue where custom searches with region set to [ANY] was ignoring [SAME] region matches. Changed logic to search for [SAME] region matches first when [ANY] is selected.
Click to expand...
 
Kalamari

Kalamari

Member
If they aren't going to include frame/hitbox data in the game, why not make it DLC? Capcom should be all over this.
 
S

Shito

Member
They obviously aren't going to reveal unannounced games in this list.
Not that I think they *have* unannounced games to announce, but just saying that BELIEVERS can still BELIEVE if they want to... ^^
 
B

Beckx

Member
Shito said:
They obviously aren't going to reveal unannounced games in this list.
Not that I think they *have* unannounced games to announce, but just saying that BELIEVERS can still BELIEVE if they want to... ^^
Click to expand...

Nah, MS announced their unannounced games for them, hah.

Also check this thread out. Capcom maybe having real problems with their new engine.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Oh yeah can't wait for their super hype super secret announcements.

RE: Revelations 2 (Cross gen) and DmC: Ultimate.
 
B

Beckx

Member
sixteen-bit said:
This gen will be Capcom's last, at least in their current form.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think there's any room to struggle with start of gen issues this time around. On the other hand I think they are closely held, so maybe they will have less pressure to make massive changes or sell.
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
Capcom with no marvel patch? Sounds like good old Capcom to me. Dahbomb will still be excited once DMC is announced at TGS even though it's been leaked. I wish I could be as happy about Capcom as dahbomb is...
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Honestly I think he messed up by making it so the website gave out info frame by frame with all the sprites for every frame and so on.

If it was just say a wiki page with the data in number format and the frame where the attack happened I wonder if this would have happened.
 
H

Holy Order Sol

Member
oneida said:
not having frame data 100% sucks.
Click to expand...

.

Only thing worse is barebones training modes that don't even have proper recording functions or at least 1-Guard Jump.

Part of what I love about Yatagarasu. The data may not be out there yet, but you can test pretty much everything you want efficiently. Haven't played UNIEL but I hear it's the same too.

Always hated that period of time where no one knows shit and it's all assumptions. If the data isn't available then I want the game to give me proper tools to figure it out, I'm willing to spend days in training mode provided that they work.
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
As for the UNIEL thing, it's interesting to see that it's ASW taking a hard stance on this.
I feel like French Bread would be fine with it.
 
J

jbug617

Banned
You think Capcom will go UE4 for their next fighting game? It seems like every fighting game developer is doing that
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
jbug617 said:
You think Capcom will go UE4 for their next fighting game? It seems like every fighting game developer is doing that
Click to expand...
A good question and I certainly would not doubt it at this point.

If Capcom is really struggling with Phanta Rhei then they would be forced to go UE4 for their next gen games.

It's easier to abandon Phanta Rhei now rather than late into the console generation cycle.
 
I

Infinite

Member
Why do people expect to see anything interesting coming out of tgs? "Just wait for tgs" should be a folk tale at this point.
 
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