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Fighting Games Weekly | Jan 5-11 | A World Warrior Demographic

B

Beesuit

Member
But then you get to hit more buttonz! Only unfun people use negative edge, because who doesn't like hitting buttonz?!
 
C

CommandThrower

Member
SolarPowered said:
Drama bomb incoming? Can't wait to read.
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That Mike Z blog post was discussed on the very last page of the last thread briefly. The folks who posted about it didn't seem to take issue with it. Mike's opinions are sound, he points out what he believes are good and bad, and he's definitely a guy who has passion for the Guilty Gear XX series. I particularly agree with his assessment about the inputs not being changed across the board for the cast.

I still enjoy Xrd very much, in spite of it's flaws. I will say that if future Xrd installments return the characters to how they were in Accent Core...then, I would think that's stupid.
 
B

Beckx

Member
Happy New Year folks

Good interview AAK, almost made me want to pick up TTT2 (but the last thing I need right now is more games on the pile). And god please let long load times be a thing of the past.
 
4

4r5

Member
Well, removing negative edge also removes option selects, and I hear people don't like option selects.
 
A

Anne

Member
OS hate is amusing to me. Outside of clearly ridiculous things like YRC burst OS, the OSes aren't a bad thing. Tbf though, if the majority of my experience with OSes came from mainline SF games I'd probably be with Sirlin, but that's not the case.
 
C

ChamplooJones

Formerly Momotaro
Recently downloaded Skullgirls and fell in love with it again, then I tried Fightcade for the first time and got bopped in a Ryu mirror in ST.

Feels good to be playing fighting games again.
 
A

Anne

Member
chocolate disco said:
Doesn't matter how much of it the game has - OS is still OS. But surely it's less annoying than in SFIV.
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Actually what matters isn't how much of it is in the game, what matters is how it impacts meaningful decision making :v

Like when Sirlin wrote his thing and went on about throw OS, he probably just doesn't know get that the way throw OS work adds a different layer of decisions to the game. Unlike YRC burst OS, which actually just flat overrides your burst.

I get the argument of "it's not good for new players, it's unintuitive and complicated and blah blah", but oh well. As long as there are fighting games there are going to be OSes, you might as well at least make sure they're not a huge detriment. I'm just pointing out that OSes are not always a bad thing, it depends on a lot of stuff.
 
A

alstein

Member
AnneIFrank said:
OS hate is amusing to me. Outside of clearly ridiculous things like YRC burst OS, the OSes aren't a bad thing. Tbf though, if the majority of my experience with OSes came from mainline SF games I'd probably be with Sirlin, but that's not the case.
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I only have issue with OS when you can't punish it hard. If someone predicts an OS, they should be able to go for something and punish it decently, even if it's a medium reward-high risk read.

In VF, I annoyed certain folks on occasions who were autopiloting their EDCs and fuzzies with low throws.

SF4 OS, throw tech OS is pretty punishable, but some things aren't bustable.
 
K

Kumubou

Member
.la1n said:
That's pretty interesting. Not sure how much good it does since your going to end up on the opposite side anyway at some point. Unless it's always mirrored to keep you using either a 1P or 2P input? I don't know I'm at work so can't follow the link but sounds confusing.
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It would be very possible to have one player rendered on the same side -- the game would just need to keep track of two viewports, which is fairly easy to do in something like UE4. The issue there would be how to handle position changes. Something like throws could have different camera translations to be seamless, but something like a dead body cross up would probably be a jarring jump cut (partially mitigated by the fact that you would always hold "back" to block).

That and it wouldn't work offline, so I would lololololol at single-side Mishimas in a tournament setting. :x
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
alstein said:
I only have issue with OS when you can't punish it hard. If someone predicts an OS, they should be able to go for something and punish it decently, even if it's a medium reward-high risk read.
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Honestly with GG Throw OS you can't even tell if they are doing it or not. It's either a meaty or a throw. How do you predict and punish those?
 
C

CurlyW

Member
M'Ellis, how did you handle seeding for Xrd? Saw the brackets and I was curious. (Obviously it's not easy since it's a brand new game.)
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
I'm mixed on OSs. I guess I'm somewhat picky on what the developers should have in or not.

Anything like BBCT's barrier/throw tech OS or Jam's old parry OS, I'm fine that they took out.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
damn all yall going to Kuwait?
no idea what KiT is tbh

and yo.. people really really hate fighting Elena.


2014 Resolution is gonna be to not read the comments.
 
C

CPS2

Member
I gotta admit I feel a bit off whenever I'm on the right side of the screen in Tekken, and its the only game where it even feels different to me, depending on which side of the screen I'm on. But I'd probably prefer to git gud than stay on one side.
 
A

Anne

Member
CurlyW said:
M'Ellis, how did you handle seeding for Xrd? Saw the brackets and I was curious. (Obviously it's not easy since it's a brand new game.)
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Most of it has to do with region, a bit leaned into player skill based on what I've seen from their regions so far, a bit from what I know of the players. It's the first major for Xrd so there are a few things up in the air.

QisTopTier said:
Honestly if an OS is punishable it's not a good OS :p
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Wrong. If your OS can't be punished your OS is probably broken. A lot of the most common and useful OSes have ways to beat them. If you're talking about offensive OSes, certain ones are done for safety or to guarantee covering escapes, sure those shouldn't be punishable, but even then there are limits. Like in GG even if you do throw OS you're open to get killed for it, but you should still probably be doing a throw OS every time you decide to input throw.
 
C

cHaotix8

Member
An OS that can't be punished on a read is too good and bad game design. There shouldn't be one thing that covers every option.

CountBlackule said:
damn all yall going to Kuwait?
no idea what KiT is tbh

and yo.. people really really hate fighting Elena.


2014 Resolution is gonna be to not read the comments.
Click to expand...

Yeah, people get super annoyed when I pick her and I don't even using Healing, lol. She's much easier to deal with now that her hurtbox stuff is fixed and EX Mallet Smash is more unsafe. People just don't wanna learn how to fight her for the most part. The most annoying thing about her to me is her jab
 
4

4r5

Member
NEO0MJ said:
I've having trouble with that, especially since the only good reversal Bedman has is a half-circle back forward super.
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One day, you will do Bedman wakeup super, and see the 'REVERSAL' message. As the super cinematic plays, you will smile. And then, they throw your super.
 
D

darkblade77

Member
AnneIFrank said:
Actually what matters isn't how much of it is in the game, what matters is how it impacts meaningful decision making :v

Like when Sirlin wrote his thing and went on about throw OS, he probably just doesn't know get that the way throw OS work adds a different layer of decisions to the game. Unlike YRC burst OS, which actually just flat overrides your burst.

I get the argument of "it's not good for new players, it's unintuitive and complicated and blah blah", but oh well. As long as there are fighting games there are going to be OSes, you might as well at least make sure they're not a huge detriment. I'm just pointing out that OSes are not always a bad thing, it depends on a lot of stuff.
Click to expand...

We already know the answer to this. True X-in-1 options by design are made to squash depth, flatten decision trees, etc. You could write a mathematical proof on the subject. When OSes enable depth it is literally a happy accident; the decision range on paper for any set of interactions pre-OS is always going to be mathematically superior; the happy accident is the pre-OS range being smaller in application than the post-OS range. You could even call it a design fault, though I don't think anyone expects designers to be capable of going that far when plotting out character interaction.

Bottom line is, If OSes had a corresponding opportunity cost to what they provide, they'd essentially be an existence closer to a gimmick, and nobody would care about them existing or not existing. People care about them because they don't. It's OK to enjoy them while admitting they are not great for design.
 
E

ElTopo

Banned
Tizoc said:
From Mike Z's blog there are some stuff I wanted to highlight


Now that I think about, yeah I-No's Chemical Romance did have a different input in XX games, my thing about the inputs is that while on the one hand I appreciate their strictness, sometimes it becomes irritating, I just want to do a Super move not effin' Slash/Hard Slash...

Personally I would've liked if it had an 'Easy input mode' like UMvC3 for casuals.


I KNOW THE FEEL!
Air Buster was laughably fun and Dwn+S NOT pulling people in in Xrd felt lame to me, now I gotta go St. S>Cr. H>HPB


I will NEVER get enough of cinematic HPB. I want this sucker to SHOW it hurts like hell, and showing it hurts like hell it does~
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I respect Mike Z but I take his comments with a grain of salt. Considering that he wanted SG to be easy to get into but it has 10 million different reset situations so if you get hit once you have to wait a long ass time for the combo to finish and be ready to guess block and because of this NO ONE IS PLAYING THE GAME. Maybe address the issues in your game before offering your 0.02 on someone else's?
 
M

mbpm1

Member
Doesn't mashed grab require you to be right up in their grill or you get heavy slash? Doesn't seem to be a very good option compared to SF.
 
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