if we're gonna talk about the lowest common denominator the SF3 series was also unsuccessful in this regard.
Fighting Games Weekly | June 9-15 | Q Bomb is Top Tier
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Why's he mad. Isnt viper considerably better?
CountBlack
Member
Elena's hitbox wins
Emperor Bohe
Member
Huh? The previous games have only had 2 Sub-Zeros. The 1st one in MK1, who died and became Noon Saibot. Then his little brother is the 2nd Sub Zero from MK2 all the way to MK9. and he only dies in MK9, he didn't die in any previous games.
Edit: oops, I think I may have misread the post a bit
Smooth Operator
Member
Tbh it seems that USF4 is the second worst version of the game (AE is first). So much strange decisions.
Karsticles
Member
What makes this comparable to AE?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Was there ever any fighting game that "rebooted" its roster that wasn't met with complete derision by its longtime fans?
Smooth Operator
Member
Yoooo
Emperor Bohe
Member
Tekken 3. They even killed off Kazuya (although temporarily). The only returning characters were Paul, Nina, Anna, Yoshimitsu, Lei Wulong & Heihachi. Although some characecters were replaced by similar others, like Marshall Law being replaced by his son Forest, or King being replaced by one of Armor Kings students
lolwut? The game is definitely going to need to get smoothed out a bit at some point in the future, but the cast overall is in a much better place. There are just a few characters where the devs seemed to be smoking crack by actively buffing them.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
Street Fighter 2
It's insane to me that Yuns crossup mk is better than Yang's crossup mk.
Interesting. Why do you feel this way?
There a lots of little bugs and the hitboxes on the newcomers are annoying at times, but I don't feel the balance has been ruined and I enjoy almost all of the new content. As well rounded as 2012 was, I was bored of it and I'm really liking Ultra.
"Hey this is a character people think is top 10 in Arcade!"
"Let's buff him before console!"
lolwtf
CountBlack
Member
Something something Deejay got robbed something something
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I don't think Marth's counter should kill. But that's just me.
Healing 5% is cool though
Healing 5% is cool though
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I jump on my tablet.
I don't have a Xbone One yet, but when my brother plays FPS, he puts it on ESPN/tv or music videos on that side out window feature (or whatever it's called).
I look forward to doing that on SF5.
That was just health items thrown from the assist trophy.
As was implied in the comments, it just looks like they gave Marth Roy's counter elements: the damage and knock back the counter gives is proportionate to the move countered.
Might as well keep it that way since Roy's not in the game and it's doubtful this version of Marth will be anywhere near as nuanced as Melee's.
Might as well keep it that way since Roy's not in the game and it's doubtful this version of Marth will be anywhere near as nuanced as Melee's.
Not really. Dude's always crying bout something. Get rekt krone.
Saw this in the Smash thread.
L. M. A. O.
Brawl counter wasn't even this bad with regards to adding knockback and damage.
Viper got buffed though. Don't understand what he would even be crying about.
direct_quote
Member
No it's not.. Yun's crossup mk is awful it doesn't even hit consistently on crouched characters, while Yang's hits consistently on most of the cast... Plus Yun's crossup has 4 active frames..
Marth's Brawl counter was still in typical Marth style. This one is more like Roy's where the knockback looks dependent on what it countered.
I think Ike Brawl's had that kind of counter? Can't remember though.
It's not alot of fans. It's some fans. And if the characters that were cut were so interesting, then there wouldn't be the ability to create your own in the game.
But you have those who don't like the direction that SCV went in and the lack of casual features and will be over-critical about it. It's not like with SF3 where Capcom removed iconic characters. The staple characters are either still in the game or have some form of representation, and the new characters that are "less interesting" are more popular than the ones they've replaced.
Yang's is far more telegraphed. Yes it's slightly better in neutral because you can crossup from farther out, but the spacing is very specific, like Yuns, that you really wouldn't use it outside of a setup or blockstring setup. In those situations Yun's far outclasses Yang's as it's far more ambiguous. You can crossup or not crossup depending on if you do 2 crouching lights and a standing light, 1 crouching light and 2 standing lights, or a mix of 2 shorts and a standing jab. Yang on the other hand can only do a blockstring setup if he spaces it out with a crouching strong.(which is negative on block and telegraphed) doing it without a crouching strong will result in a whiff.(you can actually crossup with 3 chained crouching jabs, but the timing is very specific) It's also not ambiguous, it will always crossup.
In terms of knockdown setups both have the same amount of utility, overall making Yuns crossup mk the better crossup.
EDIT: They both have the same rate of consistency hitting crouchers btw. The only difference is that the spacing for Yun's crossup is closer to the opponent than the spacing for Yangs' crossup, however both are very spacing specific regardless. And it really doesn't matter that Yuns j.mk has more less active frames when one has far greater utility and ambiguity for a crossup than the other, especially when the other has just as specific a timing for hitting a crossup anyway.
No. I know enough about both. Smash has advanced techniques but I don't think I see smash players having heavy theorizing discussion over game mechanics and characters.
You really didn't understand my point then.
I didn't purposefully place a contradiction in what I was stating. I disagree that Nintendo fans are unwilling to try other fighting games because many of them play other fighters along with Smash (myself included). The subsequent example was provided to show why certain fans might not be able to try out different fighters despite wanting to do so. You have Tekken Tag 2 on Wii U and there are Nintendo fans that bought the game and play it but wouldn't have otherwise experienced it if it remained on PS3/360.
And I also acknowledged that there are people who really have no interest in fighters outside of Smash.
I was more off-put by your broad generalizations.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Who are you referring to here? I doubt Leixia and Xiba are more popular than Kilik and Xianghua.
Tekken's "reboot" worked well because it was done early in the lifespan of the series.
Garou I suspect because it had KOF still there to play those FF characters that weren't there
If you don't think Smash players theorize about mechanics and characters then you clearly missed M2King's giant essay on Melee character rankings not too long ago. There is no shortage of mechanical discussions among hardcore Smash players that is for sure. Yea your average hit it and quit casual Smash player isn't going to get into these discussions but the hardcores do. Hell that's what has been happening all E3 long when it came to ascertaining the competitive viability of Smash 4.
Coffeeling
Member
Yeah, I realize there is that among the hardcore. Players will make their character rankings and so on.
I'm talking more in the context of receiving help. If I go into the UMvC3 thread asking questions, there will be responses with a lot of information and details. Don't expect the same in a Smash Bros. thread. You learn smash more by playing and less by following others. It's very simple to pick up and you do not need to sift through advanced tutorials to get a better understanding of the mechanics. You can do that very well on your own. At least, that's how I perceive it.
You shouldn't be going into a Smash GAF thread because it's going to be made up mostly of hardcore Nintendo fanboys who care more about XYZ obscure Nintendo character making into the game than talking about the game play. There are in fact some GAFers who don't like the competitive aspect of Smash and would rather Nintendo just ignore it altogether.
You should go to dedicated Smash forums outside of GAF that specialize in the competitive aspect of the games. You will get better help there than here.
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...w2kings-super-smash-bros-melee-tier-list-pt2/
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...w2kings-top-5-super-smash-bros-tier-list-pt3/
Part 3 is REALLY where he goes in as he doesn't spend too much time talking about irrelevant/weak characters.
You should go to dedicated Smash forums outside of GAF that specialize in the competitive aspect of the games. You will get better help there than here.
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...iscusses-his-super-smash-bros-tier-list-pt-1/
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...w2kings-super-smash-bros-melee-tier-list-pt2/
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...w2kings-top-5-super-smash-bros-tier-list-pt3/
Part 3 is REALLY where he goes in as he doesn't spend too much time talking about irrelevant/weak characters.
I think it wasn't only that- some of the new mechanics introduced were more technically complicated than what fans of the series wanted. Just Impact was something I heard a lot of players complain about as an execution barrier in much the same way SF fans complain about 1f links (and I agree in both cases)
The whole game smelled like Daishi trying to shove his 3S fetish down the throats of SC fans, and 3S is the exact opposite of what SC fans want in a fighting game.
As for Garou, I think the reason Garou worked was
- the new chars were really good designs
- plenty of legacy characters
- Garou's gameplay was radically different than previous installments (and more fun- same reason Tekken 3 worked)
- many of the favorite chars were in KOF
- Rock was fujoshi-bait
The big issue with Ultra is that most of the cast is lol, but not all the cast. Dee Jay, Dhalsim, and Honda in particular are too honest now- they need stupid bullshit themselves to counter everyone else's stupid BS, or they need more damage so that damage itself is their BS.
You're really generalizing too now.
Does Smash have advanced techniques and strategies? Yes. Does an individual player need to sift through hours of video and written tutorials for this series? Absolutely not. Play the game instead with competitive players and you'll learn far better that way.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Yes....you're pretty much gonna have to do that eventually for anything.
Looks like juri, rose and fei matchup rolled into one
Generalizing is labeling the entire Smash Bros. thread members as casual fans that only care about XYZ characters making it into the game.
Generalizing is labeling the entire Smash Bros. fanbase as unwilling to try other fighting games.
I would love it if you explained how my perspective is warped towards Tekken.
Coffeeling
Member
MikeBreezy92
Member
When isn't it?
Let's restrict the domain of these following questions to the competitive Smash community: do you believe that culture exists? Do you believe the concept of culture can be applied to something like the competitive Smash community?
Because you very apparently are ignorant of the rigor involved in developing and furthering the competitive Smash scene. It's not dissimilar to the level of analytical scrutiny a game like Tekken gets at all, and the only reason someone would think otherwise is that they are ignorant of the dedication involved in breaking down a Smash game's mechanics relative to Tekken.