Thanks! These man-children need to grow up.
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- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Thanks! These man-children need to grow up.
toddhunter
Member
Yeah I don't really know either. It must be the kill streaks or perks or something in the water that keeps people coming back to COD...but whatever it is I'd put it in my game.
Is there any way to put levelling up or character progression into a fighting game? Would perhaps this be a way to get people into them, if characters start off pretty basic and you unlock moves as you learn and get better? (and choose to fight against people of your level, or challenge higher level people with wider move sets?)
I'm definitely getting that LTTP follow up.
I'm not really a big gamer these days but if Startropics U happens, I'd have too many reasons to get a Wii U (W101, Bayo 2, ST U, Sonic Lost World) Four solid games that I'd like to play already beat out most of my 360 collection of games I actually care about that are exclusively on there.
RockTurtle
Member
someone should volunteer to become ChrisG's PR!
It's not about good game design. People will play a game that rewards them constantly. They'll play a game that's easy to pick up and play. They'll play a game where even if they're bad, they can accomplish SOMETHING relatively easily. Call of Duty lets you win (by being on a good team) and get kills (aim assist + low amount of bullets to kill) fairly easily even if you've just picked up the game. These days gamers don't want hard games. That's why an easy fun game will almost always outsell a hard fun game.
Capcom tried that 20 years ago, it was called "Warzard," or "Red Earth," and it was really obnoxious until everyone wrote down passwords for max-level characters with all their moves unlocked. Many players, myself certainly included, don't think it's sporting or fun to be forced to play a certain number of matches before important tools for a character's playstyle and success in matchups to even become available to practice with.
And Warzard had (mostly) linear levelling, so relatively short passwords could be used to store character progress. Did you ever watch the gem setup times back when the SFxT tournament format allowed for fully custom gem configurations? Go back and watch it sometime. It was hell.
Karsticles
Member
Fighting games, even bad ones, are inherently skillful, though. That's why the playrate dies so quickly. That, and fighting games can quickly become "same-y". Multiplayer (meaning ~10 players) games have the advantage of always offering new experiences, and offering cooperative play. Fighting games have trouble with this. If you do a FT10 between Ryu and Akuma, most people will get bored by the third match. It's only the people who appreciate the game's depths that can keep watching and stay interested.
I think leveling up would just make it offensive to normal fighting game fans - not the way to go. It's almost as bad as SSE in Brawl.
My 360 collection is awesome:
Dance Central
Dance Central 2
Aw yeah.
I gave FFXIII, Fallout 3, and Bayonetta to a friend when I sold my first 360.
That's how I feel. Like, I've never touched CoD before and I went to my BIL's house and went even in most matches (sometimes better, sometimes worse). The game was amusing for an evening, but oh my god is it frustrating. Death by 1-2 bullets from afar, forcing you to camp and sneak. If someone gets a good perk activated, your entire team gets slaughtered by a helicopter or something. Zooming in covers my target so I can't see anything. -_-
Plus all of the guns are boring.
toddhunter
Member
That makes sense, but a lot of successful games these days, across lots of genres do exactly that. You don't start a MMORPG or shooting game with all the tools either...but you get there.
Or of course you pay to speed things up.
Yes I wouldn't hold up Sfxt as the way to do it. Obviously you'd want a linked system that can just bring up your current character.
I think a specific mode where characters can only equip a certain number of perks, specials, supers, skills and/or aesthetic stuff but they gain new ones as they level up could be very interesting. Maybe not design the entire game around that, but it could make for a fun mode where characters can use abilities that they can't normally use and are unavailable in the "normal" modes because they would be too broken there or unbalanced.
toddhunter
Member
It might be, but getting fighting game fans to play fighting games isn't exactly the biggest problem at the moment. Having one game with a different model to attract players doesn't mean they don't graduate to something else after.
Which is kind of the point. People just like being stronger than others...and kind of being dicks. Make it free to play and start with punches and kicks only. It is easy and accessible, almost divekick style. Then hook people by giving them a fireball and go from there. There are a huge amount of people who play something like Ragarok where all you can do is left click for the first 10 hours with your two different skills. I'd back fighting games to be more fun than that if they could offer a comparative social experience where people could interact and pick fights.
Anyway just throwing it out there.
GhostRidah
Member
Chris is the shining example of stay in school and continue your education, also take some speech classes!
Karsticles
Member
Getting fighting game fans to play your fighting game might be a problem, though. We're pretty lucky right now, because there's a lot to choose from.
Capcom could explore 4-player fighting games, and that could be interesting. Use a 2D background with map depth so people can move to different planes. Make it kind of like an old school beat-em-up or wrestling game, but with good fighting game mechanics in place.
I think that could work with a F2P model, and could serve as a gateway game.
Capcom just needs to make a new Power Stone.
That's Guardian Heroes' arena mode (which was fantastic).
3D/online is great for 4P. Gundam EX VS is a fantastic 4P fighting game.
Wait it's this week-end ? Damn it another one I won't be able to make it
.It's the best thing that could happen to him really.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Can I get a link to that Chris G interview? Tried looking in this thread, but can't seem to find it.
Sorcerer Supreme
Member
http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/c/2350928?t=83m10s
They talk for a good hour.
Their conclusion: http://i.imgur.com/doE5VSk.jpg
Shouta
Member
Team Lawyer is a go?
Getting a good win rate in any online game is just hard though. The nature of the beast and all that, especially with Marvel. That online is so bad sometimes.
I think games like Arcana Heart 3 and Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 are good examples of fighting games that don't have complicated/unintuitive/time-wasting selection systems (SFxTK gems) or direct time-based progression (lol, mmo).
the synergies that can be achieved by combining different choices is what's really exciting about these games. providing more choices but maintaining simplicity is what could create a really compelling experience.
the synergies that can be achieved by combining different choices is what's really exciting about these games. providing more choices but maintaining simplicity is what could create a really compelling experience.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
So what you're saying is for Capcom to make a MOBA.
SloaneRisette
Member
This is not MOBA Weekly though.
Karsticles
Member
If only everyone had the privelage
Dat subtle troll
I beg your pardon
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Can't spell privelage without AGE
Ooooooooooooh
RockTurtle
Member
biosnake20
Member
Damn!
CrazyTank940
Member
Mike "-44 Dollars" Ross
Capcom making a MOBA would be a disaster because they still suck at patching and supporting the community/scene. DOTA just got a huge balance patch and its fucking awesome. This is why Valve and Co are rolling in money and Capcom is sitting in their HQ flabbergasted at their annual income wondering "DmC.... y u no make money 4 us?"
biosnake20
Member
They're fine at patching. They patch sf4 annually, they've patched RE6 and I've heard it's fixed a lot of the games problems, and SFxT 2013 improved the game drastically. They're still even supporting 3rd Strike online edition way after launch. Capcom obviously can't patch as fast at Valve because of the consoles limitations but they definitely don't suck at it. They just haven't patched umvc3 and that's because of Marvel.
Yup, I totally agree.
Plus fighting games is a whole different beast when it comes to patches: I'd argue that one shouldn't do more than one balance patch per year (game-breaking bugs should be dealt with as soon as possible, though).
I wouldn't mind seeing a game in development have an open beta, with changes coming frequently.
Some players might hate it, but it would likely lead to a better game in the end, especially if the testers know how to come up with game-breaking stuff. THe advantage is you'd have a better game once its released due to all the feedback.
Some players might hate it, but it would likely lead to a better game in the end, especially if the testers know how to come up with game-breaking stuff. THe advantage is you'd have a better game once its released due to all the feedback.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
This is why arcade releases are important, imo.
Beast Legacy
Member
I think a good chunk of patch problems is that Microsoft charges that fee and the companies want to maintain parity between the two versions. It's probably not the only factor but it's certainly been voiced by other devs over the years as a barrier to getting stuff fixed (e.g. Skullgirls). While they're patching SF4 and other games, having to deal with the Marvel license and the scrapped plans for what Ultimate would have been after the Japan disaster has further complicated things for that game.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Probably hurt Skullgirls and MK9 more than it helped. Why put in the time to learn BnBs that could suddenly stop working after an arbitrary patch?
If Retro should be making anything it should be a new IP. I hope they're the ones unveiling the new IP at E3. Talented studio that should get a break from the constraints of the usual Nintendo IPs and break out.
I don't think Nintendo needs a hardcore FPS. Miyamoto said he's always wanted to make an FPS and I'd like to see his take on it, but I'd want to see something different rather than Nintendo attack a market they have no chance making strides in. And if they were to steal anything from modern, hardcore FPS' it should be the reward feedback loop and pretty much nothing else. The genre is quickly approaching stagnation in its current state, when even the biggest competitor to CoD, Halo, is making desperate attempts to grab the CoD audience.
I don't think Nintendo needs a hardcore FPS. Miyamoto said he's always wanted to make an FPS and I'd like to see his take on it, but I'd want to see something different rather than Nintendo attack a market they have no chance making strides in. And if they were to steal anything from modern, hardcore FPS' it should be the reward feedback loop and pretty much nothing else. The genre is quickly approaching stagnation in its current state, when even the biggest competitor to CoD, Halo, is making desperate attempts to grab the CoD audience.
I don't know why they thought that was a good idea. Of course fans of the games that can't be convinced otherwise herald the amount of "support" the game is getting, but it really discourages development of the metagame and creators from discovering things knowing they'll get patched tomorrow. And NRS is doing it again with Injustice. It becomes just keeping up with the patching than developing deeper insight into the characters.
I am not talking about just balance patches and bug fixes, I am talking about patches with actual content on top of those things. Plus I also was talking about support for the community aside from patches. Where are the Capcom tournaments? We had a 25th anniversary one and that's it. So we have to another 25 years for the next big Capcom tournament? Capcom has been at fighting game genre longer than these newer companies like Valve/Blizzard even begun making games. There's no Capcom sponsored league/tournament season, there's no big high roller annual tournament etc.
Capcom is a stagnant company, its policies are stagnant, its decision making is stagnant and its support is stagnant. This goes far beyond than just not patching one of their main fighters. They deserve all the backlash and poor sales reception they have been getting as of late.
Cross Counter (with Tasty Steve and Genesis) are doing intro tutorials for Guilty Gear XX Accent Core.
They try to explain things in terms of Street Fighter players looking out, so it might be useful for some.
They try to explain things in terms of Street Fighter players looking out, so it might be useful for some.